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The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism

Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2008, 02:05:28 AM »
OP, I toyed with the idea agnosticism as its own belief for awhile, but now I don't see how that's possible.  Agnostic is a title for attachment to your personal beliefs or disbeliefs.  It's a way of saying that you are not so certain as to be dogmatic.  I'll say that personally, if a guy rises to power that wants to print 666 on our heads and hands, the armies of the world start gathering at megiddo hill, 4 unstoppable horsemen start riding around destroying the planet, and the dead awaken to be judged by Christ who is descending from heaven, count me a new member of the faith.  If an indisputable proof for god was found, I'd submit to the evidence along with most atheists, I believe.  But the evidence has to be there.  Being agnostic is to say "I am without knowledge, I don't know everything," and being atheist is to say "I am without belief in a god or gods."  If you don't actively practice a religion by the tenants that religion demands, you don't believe it.  Whether or not you believe in a god or gods or fairies that preside over those religions is admittedly another case, but it's to say that you believe in the deity of the religion you don't believe in.   My viewpoint is not airtight when it interacts with the different faiths, of course.  Take Christianity, they believe that all is forgiven so it's totally OK to give God the finger and do whatever you like, so long as you don't deny Him.  After all, he's the only reason you don't have to feel like a total ass for telling homosexuals they're going to hell, or the 8 year old girl who's father committed suicide will burn in hell for all eternity.

But this isn't meant to be a total dig on faith.  It goes both ways, saying you're an agnostic atheist, in my case.  For all I know, little, invisible, intangible furballs pull us toward all other objects that are surrounded by those invisible, intangible furballs.  They create giant chains that span the whole cosmos, these creatures, and the larger the object, or the closer it is, the more furballs are available to pull the two objects together.  I can't say it doesn't happen, as they are, after all, intangible and invisible.  But how would we describe their actions even if we can't perceive them?  Why, the same way we describe gravity now, because they would act exactly the same!  All other scientific theories and laws tell us how the universe acts and how we predict it may or may not act.  So, if god is mysteriously handling everything in such a perfect way as to make it appear that universe runs all on its own, well, he's kind of an ass . . .   Not to mention those dinosaur fossils and that billion-year-old light.  But just like I don't believe in any other mechanics of the universe that it seemingly doesn't require, I don't believe in any gods.  I can't know, after all.  Maybe God is an asshole.  I guess it would be his prerogative, as grandmaster of the universe.  I still won't believe until he makes it a bit more clear, because he made me that way.   :P

I think that wraps up my derailed rant.    :D
If sin may be committed through inaction, God never stopped.

My soul, do not seek eternal life, but exhaust the realm of the possible.
-- Pindar

tim

Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2008, 03:24:28 AM »
Late getting in to this discussion...please forgive any repetition.
An atheist, I think, is someone who is aware of no evidence supporting the existence of a supernatural being commonly referred to as "god".
Just as I am aware of no evidence to support the existence of the tooth fairly, I know of no evidence to support the existence of a "god".

I think "agnostic" suggests that the the person describing himself with that term is unsure if there is any evidence supporting the existence of the supernatural, on the grounds that such evidence is not possible to know...is it possible to know whether or not the tooth fairly exists? I think so...I'm an atheist.  An agnostic is not sure...

Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2008, 07:24:26 PM »
IMO, there is a fine line in the difference between atheist and agnostic, just like there is a fine line in the difference between heavy metal and hardcore (this kinda stuff is what I'm into, sorry if it's Greek to anyone else). While to the untrained eye, metal and hardcore may seem like the same style, those who immerse themselves in the scene are able to decipher the subtle differences in tone, rhythm, vocals, etc. The difference between atheist and agnostic is the same. To anyone who doesn't know (or doesn't want to know) the difference, it's the same thing. However, those of us who live the lifestyle know which we are and which we aren't. And just like the defining lines between metal and hardcore can be blurred, so, too, can the lines defining atheism and agnosticism. What I'm driving at is for you to sink your teeth in, find out how other people define the lines, and come up with your own definition. I'm an atheist, even though I'm aware that the possibility exists, and there's no way to know for certain. The most important thing is to know and accept yourself for who and what you are.
"Don't you know there ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk" - Tom Waits

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Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2008, 12:24:50 PM »
Quote from: "Ninja Donkey"
To anyone who doesn't know (or doesn't want to know) the difference, it's the same thing. However, those of us who live the lifestyle know which we are and which we aren't. And just like the defining lines between metal and hardcore can be blurred, so, too, can the lines defining atheism and agnosticism. What I'm driving at is for you to sink your teeth in, find out how other people define the lines, and come up with your own definition. I'm an atheist, even though I'm aware that the possibility exists, and there's no way to know for certain. The most important thing is to know and accept yourself for who and what you are.

well I see it differently, although that could be just me. The way I know it, an agnostic issomeone who DOESNT know (a-doesn not have/not know gnosis - knowledge) but can still be leaning towards believeing and not believing. . While for me, an antheist is someone who 100% denies all chance of being a god. Someone who KNOWs there is no god.
God made me an atheist, who are you to question his wisdom!
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Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2008, 01:30:38 PM »
I was saying that for those first coming to terms with who they are, it's easy to confuse the two. I'm an atheist because I don't believe there is some supernatural force behind everything. However, I could be called an agnostic because I'm willing to admit that there is no way to know one way or another.
"Don't you know there ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk" - Tom Waits

Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 04:30:11 PM »
Quote from: "Ninja Donkey"
I was saying that for those first coming to terms with who they are, it's easy to confuse the two. I'm an atheist because I don't believe there is some supernatural force behind everything. However, I could be called an agnostic because I'm willing to admit that there is no way to know one way or another.

This is what we say here, too... For all intents and purposes, I am an atheist.  However, truly, I will never know one way or another while I'm alive on this earth, so technically, I'm agnostic.

But I hate using the label "agnostic atheist" for myself, so I stick with atheist.

I did label myself agnostic for many many years because I was afraid to actually use the term "atheist" for fear of alienating everyone I know.  I'm more comfortable with who I am and when Bush was re-elected, I did the jump for good.  And I've never been more comfortable with who I am.
**Kerri**
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Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 09:29:25 PM »
Quote from: "rlrose328"
when Bush was re-elected, I did the jump for good.  And I've never been more comfortable with who I am.

HA!
The man changed people's lives more than he knows...
"Don't you know there ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk" - Tom Waits

Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 10:56:15 PM »
Quote from: "Ninja Donkey"
Quote from: "rlrose328"
when Bush was re-elected, I did the jump for good.  And I've never been more comfortable with who I am.

HA!
The man changed people's lives more than he knows...

Yup... if nothing else, he polarized the country and helped a lot of fence-sitting liberals and atheists fall off on one side or the other... most often, the liberal/atheist side.  And gotta thank him for that.   :banna:
**Kerri**
The Rogue Atheist Scrapbooker
Come visit me on Facebook!


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Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2008, 01:03:18 AM »
Hi gang - for what it's worth, I label myself an agnostic atheist because I don't believe there is a god but I'm not asserting this as a fact (or truth).  In other words, I can't find the argument to justify saying "I know there is no god".  So, I simply say "I don't believe the claims that there are any gods".  Which is certainly enough to qualify one as an atheist.

Re: The Jump from Agnosticism to Atheism
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2008, 11:08:45 AM »
Theism/Atheism dictates belief/non-belief.
Gnosticism/Agnosticism dictates knowledge/non-knowledge.

So, you can be a Gnostic Theist ("I know God exists!"), Agnostic Theist ("I don't know if God exists, but I think He does!"), Gnostic Atheist ("I know God doesn't exist!"), and Agnostic Atheist ("I don't know if there's a God, but I don't think there is!")

1 and 3 are inherently illogical, since absolute knowledge, in itself, is a fallacy.
2 and 4 are more logical, there are some that lean towards 2 and those than lean towards 4. I, and many others on this forum, just happen to go for number 4.