Happy Atheist Forum

Aside from me always spelling it wrong...???

Anything that sucks about disbelieving? Heh, yeah I have a few. Relationships with others for a start.

I think it would be much easier to just believe .

I am sure it is 'easier'. Go along with the popular crowd, fit in, all that. "You must do what you feel is right, of course.."

Sophia

Yeah, I agree with your relationship comment. My wife is a Lutheran and it was hard at first.

"Niceties".  In other words, people think nothing of telling me "I'll pray for you", or "God has blessed you", but I can't really say anything in return, right?  In fact, I think I would be widely considered to be a jerk for saying "please don't pray for me", or "What god?" in answer to these things.

Also: public opinion.  People may think you're an immoral monster because you don't believe in god.

In the end, I think the positives outweigh the negatives!  It sure makes me happy to be an atheist - I just feel right with the world.  (shrugs).

"Niceties" too. My wife's family live in the catholic south (in Bayern). where people greet you with a "Grüß, Gott (Greet, God). If I then answer back with a proper guten Morgen, -Mittag or -Abend the result is that I'm immediately labeled as a non-catholic outsider.

Quote from: "cheddamash"Yeah, I agree with your relationship comment. My wife is a Lutheran and it was hard at first.

That would suck.  I can't imagine being married to someone who's core beliefs were fundamentally different.  (Not that I'm saying your marriage sucks!  I'm just saying I wouldn't like it.)

Nah, it's not that bad. It was a little at first, because she didn't know anything else. She was pretty sheltered.  She's come to realize that there's a lot of ways to think other than her own. As long as both people have an open mind all is well. Now how to raise our kids... this is troubling. This is why I joined the forum actually... to see if anyone else is in my situation.

I find the hardest thing about being an atheist is dealing with the pedestal that mainstream religions are given in Western society.  Having to tiptoe around various topics and groups because you are worried about offending their religion.  Having to pretend to have respect for a religion or be labelled as an intollerant.

Hi Piemaster, great post! You really hit the hammer on the head!

Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"I think it would be much easier to just believe .

Nope, I tried that...not easy!  Being true to your own thoughts is easier than trying to swallow the one's forced on you by others.

Yeah but honestly, do you really think that the distant majority of religious people out here actually try to think for themselves?

Probably everyone out there has a sort of subconcious view of themselves. Not appearance, but role and standing in the sosciety of the highest importance to them. Now whatever that sosciety throws at them, many will take in info and act according to some of it if it can benefit them in the long run. Does anyone conciously think about it in the same manner that the subconcious thinks about it? Probably not many...very very very few...

Ok did you get anything outta my attempt at an intellectual? lol. Not really but I do like to think about human behavior...which obviously doesnt make it true, but I like to think it does! I'll just stick with my sub-concious imaginary self! haha, but somewhat true.

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"I think it would be much easier to just believe .

Nope, I tried that...not easy!  Being true to your own thoughts is easier than trying to swallow the one's forced on you by others.

Actually I disagree.  I think that in the vast majority of cases it is easier to believe what you are told rather than try and think things out for yourself.

Quote from: "Piemaster"Actually I disagree.  I think that in the vast majority of cases it is easier to believe what you are told rather than try and think things out for yourself.

I don't know what goes on in other people's heads, only my own.  The vast majority can believe what they want about religion...as long as they don't try to force it on me.

Ya know that movie, The Matrix?

Think of it that way maybe. Except the real reality probably doesnt suck as bad , but there are more complications in it.

Just about everyone of my age group is an atheist were I'm from, and when you meet someone that isn't you don't think twice about it. I didn't realize people go through hardship for being an atheist in a predominately theistic environment. Theists certainly don't get put though hardship in the atheistic environment I'm in.

QuoteJust about everyone of my age group is an atheist were I'm from, and when you meet someone that isn't you don't think twice about it. I didn't realize people go through hardship for being an atheist in a predominately theistic environment. Theists certainly don't get put though hardship in the atheistic environment I'm in.

You're probably around the same age as me; it's the same here in Adelaide. But then again Australia has always been fairly irreligious. According to census data we actually have the same percentage of atheists/agnostics as we do Christians, but I think the actual number is even higher -- I think a lot of the people who put "Christian" are only nominally theist. They might have Christian grandparents but they only go to church on holidays like Christmas and Easter and they don't make faith a part of their lives at all. At least that's my experience (my family has been atheist since forever but I went to Catholic school because I have Catholic friends).

Quote from: "pjkeeley"According to census data we actually have the same percentage of atheists/agnostics as we do Christians

Wow - really?  That's hard to imagine for someone who lives in the U.S. (or, at least just hard to imagine for me).  Man - now I want to visit Australia even more........of course my dream would be to arrive by sailboat (ouch, long term, escapist dreaming here - probably'll never happen).  I've got it in my hip pocket that if I ever get a chance to get out there I'll take it.

How Australia on vehicle regulations? I heard the gov is bitches when it comes to modifying a stock vehicle. I'm not talkin about rice-burner shit like wheels and 'soilers' either with a 8" exhaust tip. Like forced induction, suspension modification and what not. Off-road vehicles...

I've always kinda wanted to move there...at impluse anyhow. You know grass is always greener on the other side? heh

50:50 Christain:Atheist sounds wrong to me. In my personal exerience its more along the lines of one or two of every ten people i meet my age are religous. I'm 18 btw

QuoteHow Australia on vehicle regulations? I heard the gov is bitches when it comes to modifying a stock vehicle. I'm not talkin about rice-burner shit like wheels and 'soilers' either with a 8" exhaust tip. Like forced induction, suspension modification and what not. Off-road vehicles...

Your alowed to do what you want with in reason, the bitchy thing is that you got to regester it. Any more than 3 (? I think) unregested major modifications and a cop could do you for it. Then again if a cop wanted to he could find something wrong with a car just out of the factory.

QuoteI've always kinda wanted to move there...at impluse anyhow. You know grass is always greener on the other side? heh

Ive always wanted to visit america. Every thing seems bigger over there.

Quote from: "SteveS"

Quote from: "pjkeeley"According to census data we actually have the same percentage of atheists/agnostics as we do Christians

Wow - really?  That's hard to imagine for someone who lives in the U.S. (or, at least just hard to imagine for me).  Man - now I want to visit Australia even more........of course my dream would be to arrive by sailboat (ouch, long term, escapist dreaming here - probably'll never happen).  I've got it in my hip pocket that if I ever get a chance to get out there I'll take it.

Lol, i find it hard to imagine that "random occational weirdo that beleives in that stuff" being most people.

haha Nice spelling of 'irrational!'

So you have to reregisterit or something. Hm. Thats intersting. That doesn't -seem- as bad as California anyhow. Any non-factory engine change is a PITA to a 70-somethin and up vehicle.

I don't find it that hard to be an atheist.....

Then again, I haven't come out to my parents about being one yet.

As for school, my friends are totally accepting. They actually enjoy my point of view when it comes to religion. Sometimes we have fun, naming eachother "Gods" of something.

Currently, I am Shal, Pirate God of Pink Bunnies and Lepricons.

When it comes to debates with people my age that are highly devout in any religion, they end up making a fool of themself, it's quite ammusing to watch them squirm really.

But, till I enter a larger environment, then just High School, I don't think I have much of an oppinion on the matter.

I may just have to retire in Australia. But then again, these revivals haven't ever lasted forever. The pendulum swings back and forth all the time. The Evangelicals are attracting new people with the big productions and marketing schemes. But science has a way of eventually getting through. Evolution is a lot harder on Christianity than cosmology science was. It's one thing to say maybe 7 days was really 7 million years, but it's quite another to try to explain the whole Jesus died for your sins thing if the Adam and Eve story is a myth.

I am 50, and definately think there have been times it was hard to be an atheist.  I was in my 40s when i met my first other atheist!!!  Stnning, but true!!!  But where i live, we mostly stay in the closet, so who knows? I think things are better now, I'd like to think atheism is more accepted.  I was 'out' when i ws younger, but too many attacks have quieted me down long ago.
       I am mostly in the closet except to my sweetie(also atheist! score!) and my best friends.  I learned the hard way I can be criticized if I don't hide my atheism...It is just so not worth the waste of breath to take on THE ATTACKS....I even have lost a friend, dumped me the day I told her!  I was surprized, cuz she was otherwise really cool.  Yeah, I find it hard to hear a buncha crap and have to keep my mouth shut, always trying to find some neutral remark that doesn't betray my own self.....
  Seems younger people today are braver than I am.  Very encouraging!!!!!!!!
PLus, I am a nurse, so 'god' comes up a LOT when people are sick.  Priest and ministers all running around everywhere, etc, interrupting your work to pray over people,etc.   I am pretty good at honoring what the patient says without selling out, tho.  They never know.  But, day after day, it can make me feel a tiny bit isolated philosophically anyway!!!!  

Praying to Galapagos finches out-loud at family dinners makes people uncomfortable, so that's difficult...

I'm happy to be an atheist. I really, really am.

Quote from: "tigerlily46514"PLus, I am a nurse, so 'god' comes up a LOT when people are sick.

Oh thats gotta be a tough one! I am a Pharmacay Tech at a hospital and I was thinking how much that would suck to have be in those kidna situations. Kinda glad I do pretty much nothing with them, in that respect.

Yeah, tacoma Kyle, imagine all kinds of hospital converstions, like, as the guy is dying, the wife you are holding up hears her minister say "Well, god wanted him more than you did, Mabel."  !!!  WTF?   and  stuff like, "Well, it's god's will"  ALL the time, and as they are waiting for something, like a difficult surgery to end, "Well, it's in god's hands now."  I want so bad to say, heck  no- it's in the surgeon's hands, but i'll respond with stuff like, "Dr. Jones is very good."  I  get very creative. A fellow atheist might sense what i think, might realize i am not in the boat, but they never do.

 I don't sell out, but i don't get into their boat either.  Then there's all the angels, too.  oh my.

The power of prayer is all over many conversations.  HOw this or that is the result of their whole church prayed for it, etc.  It gets reeeally old sometimes.  I'm quite used to it all, but i just wanted you all to know, it can be difficult at times!!!  I can USUALLY  respond effortlessly after all the practice i get.

People, even the regular ones who nomally aren't religious, often go all freaky-religious when they find out they are terminally ill, and often want to talk a LOT about god and that stuff at this point.  They ask me if i think they will get into heaven since they never went to church and stuff.  I don't even believe in heaven, but even leaving that part out of my words,  i know i have helped some of them feel better by focusing on their life as a kind person as a truly important and valuable achievement.  Which i DO believe.

The ones who are already way religious are really something.  They often ask me my religious beliefs, and can be quite persistant!   I can dodge and deflect pretty well.   They often ask me if i will pray for them or with them, i usually will say something like, "I'll be thinking of you"  or "I'll burn a candle for you tonite." etc.  I don't think there's many jobs like mine (nurse) where this kinda stuff comes up daily.  With sick people, it's not about me--not about what I believe, it's about them. It is a balancing act to comfort them and counsel them but still respect my own self.  It can be done, though.  It's really not that hard.  I do say what i do think that will help the person, but i won't go religious, nope, can't do it.

  The ministers, they always want me to hold hands in the circle  while they do some prayer!  no freakin way!!  but i give a politer answer than that.  It goes on and on, all the time.  Every day.  Some of them do piss me off with their careless remarks to these patients, trying to get patients in ICU  to confess or become born again, etc, always assuming the patient even believes their crap.   I have interupted a few who were trying to put a guilt trip on my patient.

Imagine hearing someone telling people whose son just died it is god will, we just don't understand god's ways, god has a reason, etc.  (Some patients' religious visitors are worse than their illness.)

That is another one that comes up way too much, "There's a plan"  "Part of god's plan" etc etc etc.  I do what i can, many times i know i did help them feel better trying to cope, helping them deal.  I really think what i can say, or get them to talk about,  is way more real to them than the religious garbage.

Then there's the coworkers, some of them talk about god even more than the patients sometimes.  Some hospitals the religion is very incorporated into the place. My last job, Janet got EVERY Friday off, cuz she ran a bible study group!!!!   Guess if i could have every friday off so i could party and worship the sun?

I imagine some of you will say, "Why don't you just tell them?"  but around here, that is taking on a lot of wrath that serves no purpose except to exhaust me. Read some of those hit and run posters' remarks, and then imagine being with them 40 hours a week, trying to convert you, or even just ALWAYS saying stuff to either  'enlighten you' or even just to provoke you.  Religious people can wear me out.
It is easier to stay in the closet at work than take on their hostility and fear every day.

Oh, sure--i could easily debate them down, if i had to, but that is not where i want to spend my energy at work, i don't even have that kind of time anyway.  Plus, if you ever have taken on a fundy in your off time, even when your reasons are solid and convincing, they would not ever admit you made sense.  Mostly, you would get hostility, or pity at the very least. Plus, i am not going to 'enlighten' them any more than they could change my mind.  see?

Once i did have an atheist patient, i was so stoked !!!

In this setting, it CAN  be difficult to be an atheist, but i am HAPPY that  i am an atheist, but still, it can be difficult in some settings.  I am happy i am tall, but it can be difficult getting jeans to fit.  
OKAY, i'll quit now.  Thanks.  I just lost a few pounds!!!!!

Quote from: "tigerlily46514"I imagine some of you will say, "Why don't you just tell them?"

I completely understand and respect your decision to keep "closeted" at work.  I discuss my atheism with very few people in the real world.  (That's what the internet is for!)

The people you work with (and your patients) need you to do your job, not practice their variety of spirituality.  You have every right to deny their requests to pray with them.  Kudos to you for not pretending to be something you're not while maintaining your professionalism.

Damn, make them confess in ICU?! Jeese are they trying to kill them?

Sometimes you would think that just about everyone realises that in a bad physical or mental condition (probably hand in hand in a hostpital quite often), dewlling on the negatives typically works against getting better.

If I had to work with patients I may mention being a atheist to some if they just felt 'right' to me. You know, not sided, potentiall aggressive, mentally competent. Have to coworkers quite openly in the past, but not at a hospital.

I havent seen many minsters or praying, but you can find god in your shit if you look deep enough here .

Quote from: "MommaSquid"You have every right to deny their requests to pray with them.

hehe - reminds me - my two kids both caught the Rotavirus and were in the hospital (at the same time - it was nasty - puke everywhere).  The hospital is run by Adventists.  The day we were about to check out a "chaplain" visited the room (a seemingly nice lady) and asked if we wanted her to pray with us.  I said, "no, thanks".  She asked what religion we followed, so I said "none".  She asked if we'd be more comfortable if she left, so I said "yes".  She said "okay" and left.

Poor lady - she didn't seem too happy, but honestly, I'd been sleeping in a hospital chair for 3 days, cleaning up puke all the time, listening to the kids cry, and I'd had enough.  I wasn't rude, just honest.  I still felt a little guilty, though, I know she meant well.

Looking back at it now, however, I find it really funny  :lol:

SteveS, I think you handled the situation with the chaplain exactly right.  She was intruding on you, not the other way around.

I'm glad the health crisis turned out OK.  Hug your kids extra tight tonight.

Quote from: "tigerlily46514"PLus, I am a nurse, so 'god' comes up a LOT when people are sick.  Priest and ministers all running around everywhere, etc, interrupting your work to pray over people,etc.   I am pretty good at honoring what the patient says without selling out, tho.  They never know.  But, day after day, it can make me feel a tiny bit isolated philosophically anyway!!!!  

I can relate to that. I work for what is essentially a religious non-profit that helps less fortunate people. I took the job to help people, but prayer in board meetings gets my goat a little. I just sit there and wait for them to finish.

SteveS, in the film the Exorcist there was also a lot of puking. Maybe the chaplain thought that your children were the anti-christs.

Quote from: "MommaSquid"SteveS, I think you handled the situation with the chaplain exactly right. She was intruding on you, not the other way around.

I'm glad the health crisis turned out OK. Hug your kids extra tight tonight.

Thanks MommaSquid - yup, I'll hug them extra - I'm lucky, they're really good kids.  Although, sometimes,

Quote from: "Tom62"Maybe the chaplain thought that your children were the anti-christs.

I have wondered that as well!

 :wink:

Quote from: "Tom62"SteveS, in the film the Exorcist there was also a lot of puking. Maybe the chaplain thought that your children were the anti-christs.

Some some of my friends that have similar movie interests as I said it wasn't too bad...

It sucked! I bought it, half way through I was think how much of a dissapointment it was...same at end.

I want my money back! haha Thats one flick I will probably never watch again if I can avoid it.

I'm always saying it would be easier to believe... you'd have built-in friends at a church, plenty of people to babysit your kids, a happy-go-lucky attitude toward life because god is always taking care of things for you... <sigh>  At least that's how a good friend of mine is.  Her life seems so easy because she can shut off her brain and just go with the religious flow.

For me, the hardest thing is not having that built-in treasure trove of like minds around me.  Believers tend to wear their belief like a badge of honor, but non-believers tend to just keep their mouths shut... esp. nowadays with the fear of the believers so evident.

Hell yeah its easier. Thats why they all tend to be happier, they dont have to think about jack shit! Heh, not quite, but sure as heck true.

OOh, I also believe it WOULD be easier to be religious, to be in the majority.  The one thing i envy of the religious, is the COMMUNITY.  Heck, i might even dress up and show up on Sunday mornings if i had a place to go where i could find like-minded people...  THAT would be cool...

The other thing i might envy a little bit, off and on, is the ACCEPTANCE religious people get, almost everywhere.  However, i gotta add, i am loving this here website and feel some of that.  There were some kind responses to some stuff i have said and i am grateful.  LOVE THE FUNNY ONES TOO!!

Quote from: "tigerlily46514"I am 50, and definately think there have been times it was hard to be an atheist.  I was in my 40s when i met my first other atheist!!!  Stnning, but true!!!  But where i live, we mostly stay in the closet, so who knows? I think things are better now, I'd like to think atheism is more accepted.  I was 'out' when i ws younger, but too many attacks have quieted me down long ago.
       I am mostly in the closet except to my sweetie(also atheist! score!) and my best friends.  I learned the hard way I can be criticized if I don't hide my atheism...It is just so not worth the waste of breath to take on THE ATTACKS....I even have lost a friend, dumped me the day I told her!  I was surprized, cuz she was otherwise really cool.  Yeah, I find it hard to hear a buncha crap and have to keep my mouth shut, always trying to find someneutral remark that doesn't betray my own self.....
  Seems younger people today are braver than I am.  Very encouraging!!!!!!!!
PLus, I am a nurse, so 'god' comes up a LOT when people are sick.  Priest and ministers all running around everywhere, etc, interrupting your work to pray over people,etc.   I am pretty good at honoring what the patient says without selling out, tho.  They never know.  But, day after day, it can make me feel a tiny bit isolated philosophically anyway!!!!  

tigerlily;
I am almost too excited to write this. As a 53 year old nurse who has always been an atheist, I have never (on forums or in everyday life) met another person who is my age, in nursing, and openly atheist. The nonbeliever forums tend to have mainly younger people as members, and nursing tends to have people who are either religious or are uncomfortable admitting to being nonbelievers.  

I have the same experience you describe with shamans coming around to minister to the people I am caring for. There is an unspoken expectation that all on the scene at my hospital unit will treat the clergy (or their unordained minions) with servitude and exaggerated respect. Since I view them as both symbols and operatives of destructive institutions, this is very hard to do.

After growing up in the 50s/60s and weathering all the decades since, I have been very disappointed by the weakening of the impetus that started in the 60s to value the rights of those who do not believe. It seems to me that most of the people in our age group, even those who espoused skepticism or nonbelief as young adults, drifted back to claiming membership in (or at least respectful tolerance of) one religion or another. I can't figure out whether they are lying now, were lying when they were younger, or are just plain scared they have backed the wrong horse and are placing their bet on the safer one.

Like you, I married a nonreligious person and we know a number of agnostic and atheist folks. But even in the supposedly ultra-liberal area of the US where we live, open atheism is not a safe thing.

It's GREAT to "meet" you and read what you have to say! I was already really enjoying the many erudite posters who write on this forum; HAF is warmly welcoming to unbelievers. I'm glad I drop in.

Dear Reasoner,
wow, i am STOKED to meet a sister atheist nurse in my age group too!!  THIS IS A FIRST!!!  I know you DO know what i am talking about!  I totally knew what you meant about the exaggerated respect the ministers and priests get, they don't even have a chance to see what real people experience as they are so treated like kings or something when they show up.

i wish i could claim i AM "out" but i am not.  It isn't worth the wrath of my coworkers and the pt's fams etc....I am only out to my closest friends.  Atheism isn't accepted AT ALL here, let alone even vaguely understood...
i hear ya, about the decline of what DID seem to be a growing tolerance of alternative viewpoints back in the 60s.....what DID happen there?.....i guess that would be another thread..... i DO know what you mean.

ARE YOU "OUT" AT YOUR JOB?
kudos to you if you are, you are braver than me!!!!!

I'm kinda surprized how most members here do NOT even mention their state....?
I guess i am "out" on the internet, anyway!  
SO GLAD TO KNOW THERE IS ONE OTHER NURSE ATHEIST!!  Oh, what a treat to meet you!!
Are YOUR co-workers as religious as mine?  It is simpley breathtaking at MY job how often religion comes up where I work.....
~jean

tigerlily;
A few of my co-workers know for a definite fact I am atheist; nearly all of them, however, know that I am not religious. I live in a supposedly progressive area, but open godlessness has become just as incorrect here as it is in most of the country. I am certainly closer to being "out" on the job than any other nurse I have known. It's probably mainly my advanced age that gives me the nerve to state my position; I am simply tired of accepting the idea that being godless negates one's right to religious freedom.

Indiana, of course, is probably a lot less safe for atheists than where I live. A few years ago, I had to take a business trip (it's a long story) to Indiana to orient with the other nurse in the company I worked for. He lives in West Lafayette, where the company has an office. He is a hard core fundamentalist christian; there are fan pictures of Christ in his office. Those fan pics are something you would be unlikely to see in a corporate office in Boston.

I work with a mixture of recent immigrants and native US baby-boomers. All of them seem to tolerate the mention of God in the work environment, and most seem to encourage it. It is hard to describe how much I yearn for an environment where people keep their belief in god to themselves. I cannot even imagine a workplace where the other agnostics and atheists were "out".

One of the things that really gets to me about our generation is that I know for a fact that the educated ones have been exposed to too much of history and scientific knowledge to fully buy God. That is why twenty or thirty years ago many of them talked in at least agnostic terms themselves. Now, they seem to have complete amnesia about what they learned and how they have questioned belief in the past. They don't talk as if they thought it out and decided to believe; they talk as if their earlier attitude never existed. A lot of them seem to think it is taboo to talk directly about the question of belief at all.

I have looked on nursing discussion forums for threads about atheism or agnosticism. The few threads I have found talk mainly about the fact that very few health care workplaces are completely non-religious, even when they are theoretically "public". The only time I have seen statements by a nurse who admits to being atheist, the nurse was a much younger person than you and I.

Still, I refuse to accept that there are almost no atheists in nursing, and very few atheists of any background who are middle-aged. I think that for a lot of reasons, most of them just aren't talking.

Yeah, Reasoner, there MUST be more than just you and I!!!

 I know what you mean about some of our generation switching horses....it does make one wonder how they were able to re-shrink their minds...??  Honestly, i didn't know any other atheists even as a young person, I knew a precious few agnostics....okay, it was two.  And they both are religious nowadays..  

And I am so happy to see how atheism is more prevalent in the younger generations now, see, I don't really remember it being this way even when i was young.  I didn't really know any others.  I like to think it is becoming more accepted.  

I was more "out" as a younger person, but years of hostile reactions have quieted me down.  I can only hope with each passing generation, it becomes a bit easier for the atheists. i realize as long as we do not come out, the change towards acceptance will be much slower, and I am trying to get the courage to help be a drop in the wave of change...to come out a bit more, even outside of work.  

I thought it was brave i even list my hometown on the internet...I am taking babysteps, ha ha!!!!

I can only stand in awe of you that you are out as a nurse!!

When i was younger and more out, i was usually the first atheist anyone had ever met! or even heard of!  Imagine the flack i got....Now, i think many people have at least become aware there ARE atheists out there, even if they haven't met one.

We had no internet then, I was so alone with it all my life.  It is probably mind blowing to young people here that i was in my 40s when i met my first other atheist.  I almost cried, i kid you not.  (Okay, i did cry...)

I am trying to undo the decades of hostile reactions and slowly be a little more out when appropriate, and I am a fairly brave person, but mmm mmm, I am not much out at all.  My co-workers are aware i am 'not religious' but that is about all they know.  (Except for one, who is my best friend.)


YOU ARE RIGHT--INDIANA IS NOT A REAL SAFE PLACE FOR AN ATHEIST!  I have lived all over the country, some very liberal states, too, but this is probably one of the more backward places i've lived..but, the corn IS good here!!!!  There is always a bright side....ha ha.
OOH-LOOK--It says "chatter" under my name now......?  Guess that DOES fit, huh!!  ha ha!

Quote from: "tigerlily46514"Yeah, Reasoner, there MUST be more than just you and I!!!

 I know what you mean about some of our generation switching horses....it does make one wonder how they were able to re-shrink their minds...??  Honestly, i didn't know any other atheists even as a young person, I knew a precious few agnostics....okay, it was two.  And they both are religious nowadays..  

And I am so happy to see how atheism is more prevalent in the younger generations now, see, I don't really remember it being this way even when i was young.  I didn't really know any others.  I like to think it is becoming more accepted.  

I was more "out" as a younger person, but years of hostile reactions have quieted me down.  I can only hope with each passing generation, it becomes a bit easier for the atheists. i realize as long as we do not come out, the change towards acceptance will be much slower, and I am trying to get the courage to help be a drop in the wave of change...to come out a bit more, even outside of work.  

I thought it was brave i even list my hometown on the internet...I am taking babysteps, ha ha!!!!

I can only stand in awe of you that you are out as a nurse!!

When i was younger and more out, i was usually the first atheist anyone had ever met! or even heard of!  Imagine the flack i got....Now, i think many people have at least become aware there ARE atheists out there, even if they haven't met one.

We had no internet then, I was so alone with it all my life.  It is probably mind blowing to young people here that i was in my 40s when i met my first other atheist.  I almost cried, i kid you not.  (Okay, i did cry...)

I am trying to undo the decades of hostile reactions and slowly be a little more out when appropriate, and I am a fairly brave person, but mmm mmm, I am not much out at all.  My co-workers are aware i am 'not religious' but that is about all they know.  (Except for one, who is my best friend.)


YOU ARE RIGHT--INDIANA IS NOT A REAL SAFE PLACE FOR AN ATHEIST!  I have lived all over the country, some very liberal states, too, but this is probably one of the more backward places i've lived..but, the corn IS good here!!!!  There is always a bright side....ha ha.
OOH-LOOK--It says "chatter" under my name now......?  Guess that DOES fit, huh!!  ha ha!

By way of seeing the bright side of Indiana, tigerlily, I have to say that when I visited there I found people friendlier and more forthcoming than any other place I have visited. When I looked even slightly puzzled standing in stores or restaurants, complete strangers walked right up to help me (not only people on the staffs of the stores or restaurants). There is definitely an upside to anyplace you might happen to visit or live.

Regarding the backing off of our generation from any sense of skepticism about religion, I am quite sure that the skeptics have merely gone underground. While I don't understand why they were so easily intimidated, I do believe that people like you and I (and as you say, there have to be quite a few of us) can be encouraged to become more vocal when the environment becomes more amenable.

I'm far from a cockeyed optimist, but I feel encouraged.

Not to interupt your conversing, but at work (hospital pharmacy---tech, so its kinda related)  which is in Southern Oregon --- pretty damn religious.

But the stereo was on in the pharmacy, someone elses CD (my stuff would freak some out lol. Wont play Manson though, may get me in trouble.

I'm "out" to everyone who knows me, including my mom (which is a chore because her memory is deteriorating, so once or twice a year, we go through it YET AGAIN when I mention atheism and I get "Kerri, YOU'RE not an ATHEIST, are you???!").

I told a few moms at my son's school when he was in Kindergarten (he'll be in 2nd in a few weeks), mainly because one woman wouldn't let it go when she asked what church I go to and I said I didn't.  I wasn't GOING to publicize it, but after she gave me flyers for her church, I had to say it.  Needless to say, it spread throughout the parents at the school.  Some people were curious, but by and large, I've not been treated differently.

It did make me feel strange when the first question I was asked wasn't "What preschool did you go to?" or "What is your son's birthday?" but "What church do you attend?" by most parents.  Like that will label who and what I am to the nth degree.  Gee willikers!

Quote from: "tacoma_kyle"Not to interupt your conversing, but at work (hospital pharmacy---tech, so its kinda related)  which is in Southern Oregon --- pretty damn religious.

But the stereo was on in the pharmacy, someone elses CD (my stuff would freak some out lol. Wont play Manson though, may get me in trouble.

Turning down someone else's music is pretty rude, but I suppose they could claim that the work environment should not have anything but ultra-safe music on. That incident is a good example, though, of the kind of conservativism that seems to rule right now. It's been giving me the creeps for some time.

Quote from: "rlrose328"...It did make me feel strange when the first question I was asked wasn't "What preschool did you go to?" or "What is your son's birthday?" but "What church do you attend?" by most parents.  Like that will label who and what I am to the nth degree.  Gee willikers!

Again, I get the creeps from this stuff. It would be one thing if the question came from one one parent. But when a number of them all START with the church question, you have to ask, "What's going on?"

Have we all been dumped into a time-warped US? Is it actually 1940?

Quote from: "Reasoner"Again, I get the creeps from this stuff. It would be one thing if the question came from one one parent. But when a number of them all START with the church question, you have to ask, "What's going on?"

Have we all been dumped into a time-warped US? Is it actually 1940?

Here's stereotyping for you... I was wearing a tshirt with an atheist quote on it and one of the school moms (the new chair of the PAC, no less) saw it.  She's a sweater-set type, cute modest skirts, hair and nails always perfect.  I assumed, of course, that she was a fundie.

She saw my shirt then asked to speak to me privately.  She started by congratulating me for having the guts to wear it in public... then continued to tell me how our views are identical based on that quote, she hadn't been a believer ever in her life though was "raised Lutheran... I think" (she said... LOL!).  Just goes to show you can'd judge a Christian by her sweater set, eh?

It does indeed feel like we've regressed by several dozen years here in this country... though there are bright points.  My son spent last week at summer camp, one sponsored by Campfire (which is co-ed now, since 1979!).  He said one girl started talking about god during one of their nature walks and the Counselor asked that they not talk about God since not everyone shared the same beliefs, but to just experience nature as it is.  I was very glad to hear that!  LOVE Campfire!

Wow, Kerri, you musta been stoked!  I like both stories there!