Happy Atheist Forum

Hi,

I'm new here. I'm living in New Zealand, formerly from the UK. I'm surrounded at work by deeply religious people, which can often drive me nuts! Anyway, there is one other intelligent collegue at work who is also an atheist and we were having a discussion with another collegue who is a Christian. Obviously any argument against religion is a pointless task as the arguments are usually dismissed with phrases such as "...its true becuase I know it is..." or "...I believe because I believe...". I ended by saying "it seems almost impossible to get through to these people" or something like that. Which got me wondering...

Why do formerly theist people become atheists? I was never brought up in a religious background. Both my parents are athiests and school never really preached this stuff, apart from a few hyms. So I can understand why I never "believed" or ever will. But, what about those who were "believers"? As stated above it seems almost ingrained in the minds of the theists that there is a God and can be an impossible task to make them think otherwise.

I just wondered if some former theists could highlight why they became an atheist? It would be even more interesting if there were some true bible-bashers, who came to our side of thinking, that could give their account.

Thanks,
Gary

Hello there and welcome aboard.

I was raised a Christian. As a child anything your parents or the majority of adults around you tell you is what you're going to believe. It wasn't until I was in my teenage years when I developed a strong hunger to discover the truth did I become an atheist. The thinking type of folks who are raised in a religious home probably all find new, more rational beliefs when they begin to develop interests in philosophy. I hear this normally happens in the college years.

I don't think that the conversion of the religious to atheism functions the same as converting the secular into deeply religious people. Most secular people are theistic, making them easier to convert. There is no change in the underlying belief of a supernatural being.

Richard Dawkins was actually raised a Christian too. We both converted around the same age.

I was raised Christian. I became an atheist because I found out I was wrong. My devotion to personal honesty beat out my dependence on religion. This won't happen for everyone, but I suspect that most people have the potential to change.

When I was a teenager I use to go online and try to bring non-believers to Christ...I kid you not.  Then I tried to research more about my faith so I could better convert others....well, that backfired and I ended up growing out of religion as it increasinly became less believeable.  However, I didn't go directly to atheism.  That took a lot more personal searching and researching philosophical arguments for and against god.

I was raised in the Southern Baptist community. I remember having feelings of strong skepticism around 14 years of age. Even then I sensed something mythological about the Bible. I fought with those feelings for the next ten years of my life. It was eventually study of religion coupled with critical thinking that helped me overcome the fear of hell, along with any doubt that the extraordinary claims of the Bible are fictitious.

I see a bit of pattern here. Basically, so far, most people seemed to have converted through research and investigation, either at college or through curiosity. Which is interesting in itself, because the sorts of people who would tend to do that are often open minded and intellectual, in my own opinion.

I have yet to meet or befriend a religious person who questions everything as much as I do. I love to soak up as much information as I can on all worthwhile topics, and then make a decision for myself. Not just follow the mainstream point of view.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had a sudden change of view. Perhaps a horrible event in their lives which they could not have imagined happening if there was a God?

My conversion story is far too boring, but here goes.  I realized at a young age that Santa Claus wasn't real.  Things just started clicking thereafter.

I was raised a Methodist. I think I became an atheist by random chance.

Quote from: "Whitney"When I was a teenager I use to go online and try to bring non-believers to Christ...I kid you not.  Then I tried to research more about my faith so I could better convert others....well, that backfired and I ended up growing out of religion as it increasinly became less believeable.  However, I didn't go directly to atheism.  That took a lot more personal searching and researching philosophical arguments for and against god.

I find that rather ironic. Researching more about your religion pushed you away from it.

I became an Atheist because I wanted to justify my not wanting to believe in Hell and so that I can do drugs, practice sodomy, and support abortion.

And of course, I was only joking about the sentence above.

My parents are not church going Christians and they believe that a person can only be a Christian if God ordains them to be. So, I never had to go to church and I was never raised to actually follow the religion of my parents. I tried following their religion but I ended up finding too many problems with the Bible. I got into occultism but I was always a sceptical arsehole about the supernatural and divinity. I once became a Moslem but I found too many problems with the Koran. I eventually got into Gaudiya Vaishnavism but I found too many problems with the Bhagavad Gita, Bhagavata Purana, and the beliefs in general. For a brief time I didn't know what I was and after contemplating how illogical gods are, I gave myself the choice of Atheism or Deism. The latter, which relies on the Argument from design, was eliminated because I concluded that there is no design. Atheism was my choice, or conclusion, because divinity is illogical, impossible, and too much of a tooth fairy thing.

My website displays what my position as an Atheist is. http://rationem.weebly.com

My life is more meaningful than it was when I was a Theist.  

Quote from: "Loffler"I was raised a Methodist. I think I became an atheist by random chance.

Perhaps it was a random mutation? And your mutation will continue on because it's a survival trait?

Quote from: "s0cks"I just wondered if some former theists could highlight why they became an atheist? It would be even more interesting if there were some true bible-bashers, who came to our side of thinking, that could give their account.

I called myself a born-again Christian for 15 years.  I evangelized, preached sermons, and read my bible daily (well, almost).  I've now had to reluctantly admit that I don't believe it anymore.

It's really not a "why become an atheist" question, it's "why fake being a Christian" question.  I could no longer force myself to believe something that just doesn't make sense.  An omnipotent and all-loving God provides absolutely no proof to his existence or gospel plan of salvation, and then condemns people to hell for not believing it?  I couldn't swallow that any more.  I realized that for 15 years I had been praying to the ceiling.  Apparently God wanted to have a relationship with me but he was quite content to allow that relationship to be entirely one-sided.

It's funny, I once heard a preacher say "Imagine you neglected to talk to your wife for an entire week.  You still claimed to love her and you wanted to be with her, you just didn't talk to her.  It seems pretty silly, doesn't it?  That's like a Christian who only prays once a week."  I now feel like answering "How about I talk to my wife on a daily basis for 15 years and she never once answers me.  She's as communicative as a statue.  That's like a Christian who prays all the time."

I tried lying to myself and others, for many months, thinking that my "lack of faith" would go away, that I was just struggling through a rough patch.  But I'm not.  I'm finally looking at things objectively.

Why become an atheist? Because the chicks dig the bitchin' uniforms!

Quote from: "Enoch Root"I called myself a born-again Christian for 15 years.  I evangelized, preached sermons, and read my bible daily (well, almost).  I've now had to reluctantly admit that I don't believe it anymore.

It must have been annoying when you realized that you quite possibly wasted a lot of time over those 15yrs.

I guess.  But no worse than anyone who spent that time watching TV.  Plus it taught me something, I now have a pretty good idea of exactly what I'm walking away from.

I second newblueradio. The same midset that made me non-believe in Santa at 3 or so, clicked and made me non-believer in God in my 40's. I was already agnostic, so no big leap.

The cracks in the christian "logic" began to crack in college when I began questioning why I believed in what I had been raised to believe.  I realized that I had been lied to about Santa & the Easter bunny & I figured there had to be other issues.  What got me was when "God" supposedly spoke to Moses & whatnot, but he hadn't spoken since.  Then the "virgin birth" came up & I thought about what a lie that was.  I followed Wicca for awhile, but that didn't seem to make any more sense.  Over the course of some time, I got really involved in forensic science & logic prevailed.  Atheism (really nihilism) made all the sense in the world!  I have since embraced my atheism & I feel so free!!!  

~C

I attended bible college for a year and preached every Sunday for two.  My reasons for becoming an atheist are extremely numerous, but it all started when I witnessed the corruption at the highest levels of organized religion. The lies, and mistreatment of people are heartbreaking, and even now I find it hard to talk about. I was never sold on the science of the bible anyway, so from there I asked all the questions I always wanted an answer to, concerning the age of the earth, and how christians can so easily discount Darwin. The greatest question of all for me however, was this: Who created the creator? Isn't it just as easy (or easier) to assume the universe "just is" as it is to say god "just is"?
Of course, they have no answers to ...anything

My mother brought me to church several times when I was younger, and every time I would be forced to pray, it just felt like I was closing my eyes and talking. When I got older in my teen years, I started becoming more intelligent and started thinking more and came to the conclusion that believing in mystical stories and a guy in the sky with a magical wand that went "SHAZAAM!" was crazy, and I felt stupid for even thinking that there may be a higher power.

Was a Christian throughout middle and high school.  [strike:3984yje9]Regular[/strike:3984yje9] Permanent fixture at the prayer circle, FCS, and even participated as a roadie for a local Christian band that only just broke up (composed entirely of people who I still know and call friends).  Was never a church person, though, and was happy to spout scripture to that effect, and proud to call myself just plain ol' Christian rather than religious.  I always acknowledged science as a pillar of humanity, and gave it more interest than my friends did.  I was the rationalizer of the faith, and was told I would do great things to unify science with the perfection of religion.  I openly regarded scripture as corrupted by man, and called Genesis allegory, but I still held the New Testament in highest regard.  Then I went to college.

By the end of my first semester, I had decided that drinking and having sex didn't mean you were possessed.  I even decided that I regretted not being more sociable in high school, though I didn't start in college.  Rather, due to family issues, I postponed further schooling.  I just left with the knowledge that it didn't seem as bad as we all clearly made it out to be in the prayer circle.

I got to see much of the internet, and little arguments got my attention.  I didn't participate in Christian forums, and altogether avoided atheists where possible, but when I saw a comment pop up I rushed to defend the faith.  I slowly accrued information that would end up helping me break away, but it never would have happened were that the end of it.

At some point, I asked myself why I gave faith a pass on so much, and arrived at the decision that surely God wouldn't mind if I thought over his veracity and examined some of the evidence for his existence.  I figured it'd be a learning experience.  Without the faith armor, all the "evidence" came crashing down and I was endlessly disappointed with my answers to various questions.  I asked my Christian friends, feeling they would be more knowledgeable, but no one had good answers for the problem of evil.  Finally, when I got drawn in to an evolution debate (this friend had known I'd always been one to call Genesis allegorical) while asking philosophical questions, a friend asked me why I didn't believe in Genesis and I remarked something to the effect that it was impossible.  He remarked that then I should consider Christ's resurrection impossible, as that was a miracle, too.  And that's when I realized how absurd the whole thing was.  It all came down pretty quickly after that, and I spent about a day rebuilding my philosophy and many weeks learning about the world, without the Bible goggles for a change.  I finally reached a point where I could say "there is no God" with the same certainty I might say "there are no tigers on my lawn," an I've called myself an atheist ever since.

Too long?  

I've never been anything but an atheist insofar as I've had any coherent opinion on the supernatural.  I simply don't find that supernaturalism is coherent.  I also think that most 'gods' have extensive logical and empirical problems as far as justification goes.

I've never felt any reason to be a theist.  There also seems to be an instrumental dominance of rationality (insofar as one is psychologically inclined to accept its consequences) do to the fact that doxastic inconsistency would lead to a totaly uncertainty of repercussions.

The great part about 'becoming' an atheist/agnostic/freethinker whatever is there is no process to it, you just are.

I never found Christianity overly appealing, never one for public singing, especially of outdated and silly hymns. Went to a Church of England School/s between ages of 5-16 but within the U.K. Christianity is generally much more liberal (I assume anyhow from what I have read of U.S. evangelicalism). Religious belief never seemed like a good reason for people to jump up and shout and praise and point to the sky. Sitting in Church and listening to a middle-aged man reading from [a copy of] a 2,000 year old book, droning on about;

Jesus...Love...Sins...Hell...Heaven...Punishment..Jesus...Heaven...Repent...Hell...Heaven...Jesus...Hell...Punishment...Heaven...Sins...Hell...Heaven...Hell...Sins...Hell...Sins etc etc.

This was supposed to represent a way to live a full and happy life because if you followed God he would guide your soul to Heaven (or some other nonsense like that). Unfortunately some of the recurring themes weren't as pleasant as fluffy clouds, nice food, and everyone smiling. It was all a bit surreal and not really in keeping with reality. This was all part of a slow realisation for me, running parallel with a (relatively) open mind and a decent education; first to be placed on the 'not real list' was Santa, then Monsters and Ghosts, then God.

I was agnostic until three years ago or so and I started University (final year now), studying History and Archaeology I recognised the diversity in ritual and spiritual belief throughout man's past. Believing in God was never a fixed state of thought, it didn't have defined boundaries or specific guidelines. Even with Christianity one man's Creationist interpretation is another's figurative explanation of the Big Bang. I went from being unsure about whether a/any God existed (leaning towards atheism) to a complete lack of a belief in God.

Reading, listening, watching... it all helped (providing it isn't a strict combo of some lecherous preacher and Fox News). Watching the pentecost service this morning on TV, somewhere in London most likely, it was interesting studying the programme, especially the people. Thousands of people of all sizes, ages, skin colours and various backgrounds were crammed into some arena standing, clapping, singing, smiling. They all had the same look in their eyes, what I can best describe as staring intently through a glazed lens. They were singing some Christian pop-rock-celebratory "We Love Jesus" songs in unison, yet as the song progressed repitition of particular lines increased, finally ending in a minute long period of reciting these same two lines over and over in verse. Think it was, "Shine the light and let the world see, Jesus rose and conquered the grave."

Looking closely at these two lines you see the first one can be recognised as the archetypal, "Convert anyone you can, it will be good for them" view. And the second suggesting Jesus "conquered" death and resurrected; although considering he represents the Son of God it shouldn't be too hard a feat, I mean is that all he can do!?! Christianity in a nutshell; brainwashing children (and adults), condescending to all, focus on God and getting to Heaven before anyone else, and irrational propositions such as someone coming back from the dead (I am sure this can be applied to all religions to various extents, especially the monotheistic ones). I would much rather immerse myself in history, philosophy, even football (soccer), as opposed to constantly re-reading the bible.

I think I may be the odd ball here, but I was raised Jewish. My parents were very liberal and never overly religious, but they still felt this need to uphold "Jewish tradition" I suppose and go to temple for holidays, send me to sunday school, and get me Bat Mitzvahed. I always remember questioning the existence of God, but I was terrified of admitting that he may not exist. I  wasn't afraid of going to hell because we didn't believe in one, but it was such prominent figure in my life that completely denying it made me uncomfortable.

I remember growing up Jewish people would often roll their eyes at Christians for thinking Jesus was some holy being. In our faith we didn't believe that, and we thought it was ridiculous someone did, so did I. That's when I started to think about it more. If I thought it was ridiculous that people thought Jesus was some holy being, then isn't it just as ridiculous to believe in a God that we have no evidence exists? Those thoughts crossed my mind a lot, but it wasn't until after I started college that I truly became an atheist. I went through a difficult time transitioning from high school to college. I had major self esteem issues and depression, and I'd find myself up at night just praying that things would be better. Of course, it never got better. None of it I remember. One day I just decided I was going to take action for myself. I worked hard on improving how I felt about myself, without praying once. I really improved myself from my own dedication. I think that is when I realized that I was the only person responsible for what goes on in my life. After that I just didn't see religon or God as a something that my life needed in it. It all just seemed like a concept people created because it made people feel more comfortable with the unknown, and gave some people an excuse to hate and be intolerant, which above all completely turned me off to all of it. I started delving into topics that had always interested me like astronomy and evolution, but I studied them with an open minded rather than a mind muddled with thoughts that evolution is true, but creationism is also true. My parents seemed fine with it, my uncle is an atheist also and has been probably since the day he was born. Ever since becoming an atheist, I have so much more excitment in life, and I have this passion to learn more and more about everything in the world around us. It has been very freeing, I suppose.

I was raised Presbyterian, but had a pretty messed up home life as a child.  This forced me to be independant at an early age.  I learned to think for myself (something many folks NEVER learn) and I came up with my own set of core beliefs.  I still don't know what I am exactly, but I probably more of an Athiest than anything else.

I'm visiting my Catholic mom, like we do every summer, and she told me she still prays for me.  I told her that's fine, so to many of my friends back home.

She said her friends at her church asked her if she thinks I'm REALLY an atheist and she told them no, she knows in my heart, I'm a Christian, I'm just confused, influenced by my husband, and she knows I was "burned" by some religious people growing up.

I didn't respond.  No use.  Won't change her mind anyway.

Quote from: "rlrose328"I'm visiting my Catholic mom, like we do every summer, and she told me she still prays for me.  I told her that's fine, so to many of my friends back home.

She said her friends at her church asked her if she thinks I'm REALLY an atheist and she told them no, she knows in my heart, I'm a Christian, I'm just confused, influenced by my husband, and she knows I was "burned" by some religious people growing up.

I didn't respond.  No use.  Won't change her mind anyway.

I feel your pain. I recently had a gentlemen whom I didn't even know tell me the same thing. He said he prayed for me causing me to have felt in my heart God's calling. He is now convinced I am in denial.

I'm happiest in denial... I must be because that's where so many people think I am.  LOL!  

I used to be a devout Catholic. Three of my aunts are nuns, I have an uncle who is a priest. When I was very young my family was in a horrible car accident and drove off the side of a mountain, flipping several times and ending with the car overturned. We all survived. All of the children walked away unharmed, my parents were in the hospital and treated for shock, my grandmother had some broken bones but that was the extent. My parents ascribed it to god, something that I did as well until I concluded that German engineering was likely more responsible for our survival.

When I was seven my grandmother died, my mother and three year old brother went to the Philippines for her burial (yes, the same brother who no longer believes in god or the supernatural); my mom came back telling us that my brother had seen my grandmother's ghost as well as having seen god and my grandfather. I believed for over a decade until I really thought about a three year old in an overtly Catholic country where he cannot speak the language, surrounded by my aunts and uncle who are part of the ecclesiasty, where you can't throw a dead cat without hitting some religious icon or rendering. One of particular interest was his saying that  he saw a man with a beard with a silver spiky hair. My relatives said it was god and his halo. I went to the house where they stayed for the funeral and saw the print of Jesus with a jagged sort of mirrored halo hanging in the house -- and in other houses -- and in stores -- and on scooters -- and busses -- and inside taxis. It wasn't any surprise that he "saw god everywhere."

I am an atheist because, like these very personal mysteries, there are always better answers to puzzling questions than "god."

In the bible god gets a married woman pregnant without her consent, he leaves the baby to be raised by the mother and her husband, he is totally absent from his child's life for thirty five years, in his absence his child totally disrespects the man who raises him, when god finally returns to his child's life he asks his kid to do him a favor -- a favor that gets his child killed. God is a crap role model.

I am an atheist because that, and many more serious charges against god (e.g. genocide, sexism, slavery, child abuse, rape, murder, pedophilia et al ad nauseam) make god a terrible source for morality.

It is essentially those two things -- the uselessness of god to explain phenomena and the inability to even act as a guiding principle make him, if he exists, totally redundant and unworthy of my acknowledgment except as historical flotsam and preferably jetsam.

God is a relic from a time when we were too ignorant to even guess at how the world worked and too stupid to try.

There is no good reason, intrinsic or otherwise, to believe that god exists -- so I do not.

Hi Gary

Quote from: "s0cks"I just wondered if some former theists could highlight why they became an atheist? It would be even more interesting if there were some true bible-bashers, who came to our side of thinking, that could give their account.

I became an atheist after reading the Bible and engaging in apologetics. To put it really blunt, the Jews were right to kill Jesus. He broke the commandments, he didn't fit the prophesies and was inconsistent with the OT. So, that proved to me that Christianity was false.
But I read the OT and it didn't click either. Judaism contradicts the Torah plenty of times. Besides, the OT is full of baby slaughter and the Morgan Freemanesque God I believed in was nowhere in the Bible.

I also figured out I was gay.. And I knew how the Bible felt about us. So I was a seeker - this was in middle school. I was a secular Buddhist in high school, but even then, I wasn't truly consistent with what the Buddha taught.

If I had to put forward all the reasons I'm a non-believer now, I'd say:

1) No evidence for any particular religious theology over others... Especially because sincere believers with completely contradictory dogmas have spent their whole lives wholeheartedly debating and even dying for their faiths. This is absurd. The sincere seeker, who wants to know the true religion among them, has no recourse. Also, there are ideas found in many faiths which are very similar... However the idea that they all come from the same source (like Baha'i) doesn't make sense, given that most faiths (including Baha'i) name themselves the authority and make claims that others don't agree on.

2) Evidence that god is a myth and religion is a natural phenomenon is abundant. We can trace the history of "god-ideas" and see the psychoanalytic reasons why gods are conceptualized the way they are. We can also find evolutionary reasons for why people believe in gods (and spirits/witches/unseen agents) that are compelling. It also makes sense of why religions are contradictory (since they are based on virus-like ideas instead of revelations) and also explains dogmas found in most faiths (hell, heaven, etc) which are used for their survival.

3) Natural evil A LA Epicurus.

4) Religions claim to be the source for ethical guidance, however, their teaching doesn't conform to the modern conscious (and those that do are usually revisionary and derive from humanism). Many scriptures condone or demand tribal barbarity, genocide, misogyny, homophobia, racism, slavery and other evils.

5) The teachings of many faiths are anti-human. They tell us that our life and human endeavors are meaningless based on metaphysical clap-trap (Samsara for Buddhists, Original Sin for Christians, etc). They teach that things that humans value are dirty, and ask that we debase ourselves and live in denial of our needs.

6) The good in religion is human good and not from a god. The beauty of the art, the wisdom of the moral aphorisms, the poetry, the literature, and the myths are all likely the product of human imagination. This accounts for why there is a glimmer of this beauty in every tradition and culture, and also why none of these things couldn't have been done by someone living at the time in history they were performed.

Sorry if this post is too long.

My story is similar to Whitney's, I was born a Roman Catholic, worse as a child I was a bit extreme as I have a tendency to go all the way with what ever I do. My mother was one of the CCD teachers as well as the leader of the chorus. At this time I was about ten I started reading alot. starting with Moby Dick and I read up to War and Peace by the time I was twelve. I turned to reading to get some answers but it only gave me more questions. I would read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and find inconsistency after inconsistency however more and more reading just kept entrenching the fact that things did not add up. However I did not loose my religion until freshman year of high school. I was riding home on the bus and I was thinking about God and how perfect the idea was. I wanted to push closer to the idea and really understand it. So i started examining why I believe in God expecting to find some glorious bastion of truth. Instead I found a large gaping hole. I had never asked my self why I believe I had always just accepted it as common place for me. Some people like apples or the color green, I believed in God. It really was that ingrained belief or the old "You are Catholic from birth to earth" as my mother used to say, and still does. My not having an answer for this rather fundamental question made me hate my self. So my answer to this was to have my mother pull me out of high school and put me into a private Catholic school on the protest that there were Gangs and drugs in my old school (there really were so this was not hard). However upon reaching good old Bishop Mcguinness I met up with a group of individuals that actually helped me to question and when I found that I really had no reason for believing they helped me to come to terms that I was not evil for not believing in God. Upon graduating from Catholic high school I was agnostic, and I wanted more answers so when I got a chance to go to a brand spanking new Catholic College I jumped at the chance. However just like Whitney as I had my classes on philosophy I had more questions, and as I had my classes in theology I despised the church and its use of fear more and more. By Junior year I was a full blown Atheist (but with a Catholic Girlfriend). All in all I think that the reason I changed was that I asked my self why I believed. The problem though is that it cant be asked or taught it has to come as a natural questioning of self.