Happy Atheist Forum

I get the feeling that I am suffocating in the stupidity, stubbornness, and ignorance common to all religious people. It infuriates me how they think that they are right and look at you like they pity you for not being religious because they think you're going to hell. It would be nice to know that I'm not alone in this world full of religious people.

No walkerneo, in the words of the immortal Bowie "You are not alone"
There will be people along shortly to give advice for a norm in religio zombie land.

Yeah, everyone knows theists can't actually be smart.  Sure.

Hey up mate,
I just joined up today too! Seems like a nice place.
The world is full of religeous people but more and more are 'seeing the light' and atheism is growing. I don't think religeon will ever die but hopefully it'll continue to fade.
You're definitely not alone!

Just realized - I'm not completely sure of my facts on atheism growing! I just presumed it must be..

Quote from: "walkerneo"I get the feeling that I am suffocating in the stupidity, stubbornness, and ignorance common to all religious people.

I understand your frustration, but succumbing to incorrect sweeping generalizations isn't going to help anything.  I think you might effectively argue ignorance to a degree being required for religiosity, but certainly not all religious people are stupid or stubborn and it's not fair to categorize them as such.  I have a feeling you're not really talking about all religious people, though, since only a 'special' kind of religious person behaves in the way you were describing anyway.  I hope you find the community you're looking for here.  It's a nice little oasis.

4% of Americans are Atheist or Agnostic.  For those between the ages of 18-29, 7% are Atheist or Agnostic.  As always, hope for a better tomorrow depends on the young.

http://pewforum.org/Age/Religion-Among- ... nials.aspx (http://pewforum.org/Age/Religion-Among-the-Millennials.aspx)

In a recent opinion poll in the UK, 55% of people under 35 years of age said they had no religious affiliations - a long way short of being atheist but heading in the right direction.  

The majority of weddings in the UK are now civil weddings.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK but it is outstripped by growth in the numbers professing no religious faith.

A few years ago the (Anglican) Church of Scotland considered a management consultancy recommendation that it cease being a church and turn itself into a socio-political pressure group because it isn't recruiting enough priests to keep the churches open.

Basically, religion is on it's last legs in the UK.  I reckon that another 50 years should see it become nothing more than a wacky cult.

The USA may be someway behind us but you'll get there in the end.  Just stand up and be counted and watch the closet atheist come out.  Remember the gay pride and black consciousness movements?  They were about raising consciousness and giving people the courage to stand up and be counted.

Quote from: "walkerneo"I get the feeling that I am suffocating in the stupidity, stubbornness, and ignorance common to all religious people. It infuriates me how they think that they are right and look at you like they pity you for not being religious because they think you're going to hell. It would be nice to know that I'm not alone in this world full of religious people.

All I would say to this is that you haven't met all religious people, so it might be worth doing a 'fag packet' calculation of how many religious people you have actually met.

Having said that don't let anything said to you put you off joining in  

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.

Quote"Tank"]

Quote from: "walkerneo"I get the feeling that I am suffocating in the stupidity, stubbornness, and ignorance common to all religious people. It infuriates me how they think that they are right and look at you like they pity you for not being religious because they think you're going to hell. It would be nice to know that I'm not alone in this world full of religious people.

All I would say to this is that you haven't met all religious people, so it might be worth doing a 'fag packet' calculation of how many religious people you have actually met.

Having said that don't let anything said to you put you off joining in  

Tank,
You live in the weak religious area of Northern England.  I live in the middle of the Bible Belt of the USA in a town where the majority of the inhabitants are as 'walkerneo' describes.  These people are so narrow in their thinking that many will not hire Christians of other denominations as contractors. Baptists hire only Baptists and Catholics hire only Catholics.   If the locals knew one was an atheist, one would be shunned socially and economically.  The population of this town is 12,000.  There are a handful of atheists who meet at the local  Unitarian Universalist Hall but they keep their lack of belief to themselves when dealing with Christians.  The good news is the beauty of the Ozarks makes living here a joy as long as people think I am a Christian and I have access to forums like this...

Quote from: "notself"

Quote"Tank"]

Quote from: "walkerneo"I get the feeling that I am suffocating in the stupidity, stubbornness, and ignorance common to all religious people. It infuriates me how they think that they are right and look at you like they pity you for not being religious because they think you're going to hell. It would be nice to know that I'm not alone in this world full of religious people.

All I would say to this is that you haven't met all religious people, so it might be worth doing a 'fag packet' calculation of how many religious people you have actually met.

Having said that don't let anything said to you put you off joining in  :verysad:

America is getting increasingly grim when it comes to religion.  It intrudes into every aspect of life and is eroding our civil liberties.  It is now illegal in Arkansas for a single person to adopt a child.  The voters are so afraid that gays will adopt kids that they won't let anyone adopt who is not married.  They would rather that children go without a parent than be "exposed to the homosexual agenda".  If my husband and I were younger, I think we would emigrate to Canada.

Quote from: "notself"America is getting increasingly grim when it comes to religion.  It intrudes into every aspect of life and is eroding our civil liberties.  It is now illegal in Arkansas for a single person to adopt a child.  The voters are so afraid that gays will adopt kids that they won't let anyone adopt who is not married.  They would rather that children go without a parent than be "exposed to the homosexual agenda".  If my husband and I were younger, I think we would emigrate to Canada.

And increase the IQ of both countries in one fell swoop!  

I think I can understand what the OP is feeling to some extent.  It's how I reacted when, at around age ten, I was outed as having an atheist parent by a teacher who was requiring us to say grace before snack time and lunch time in a public school.  The reaction of my peers was first to harrass and verbally abuse me and then to get the help of older kids and beat the shit out of me.  My folks were blind-sided because they'd moved from Detroit.  

After the beating and the following attempts of adults to convert me (I was an intensely shy kid anyway and adults would have scared me even if they hadn't told me that if I thought my beating was bad, wait until I felt what Hell was like), I was absolutely terrified.  I felt like I was living in a sea of monsters.  My non-religious parents did their best to calm my fears, telling me your grandma is religious, your grandpa is religious, your uncles are religious to try to calm my fears.  It helped a little.  It also made me a little more afraid of grandma.  

Worse yet, I decided to read the Bible more thoroughly to try to find out what I was up against.  I was a very, very literal child so when I was told that Christians followed the Bible and then I read it carefully, it scared the crap out of me.  

It was a farming analogy that finally helped.  Pigs, taken one at a time can be a little dangerous, but not if you are careful in how you act around them.  But one wrong move in a group of adult (sexually mature) pigs and you could get ripped to pieces.  So I learned that I needed to not speak up and to not get myself into situations where I'd be physically surrounded  by a group of sexually mature (12 and up) Christians if at all possible.  As a child, I was too literal-minded to lie and go along with the "god this" and "god that" so silence was my only safe avenue.

When I grew up, I learned that I could get by if I pretended (mostly in a lying by omission kind of way) to be like the herd.  I moved away from the dangerous, tightly grouped herd of Christians and discovered that there are Christians who are less dangerous and even some Christians who are not dangerous at all.  In cities, the safe-to-be-around Christians are often a majority.  They may be a somewhat hidden majority but they usually are in the majority in larger cities.  People apt to become part of a pitchfork wielding mob tend not to get along as well in cities.  

But in small town America, the Christians that are safe to be around are usually just as hidden as the atheists, Jews, and Muslims are in small town America.

Kylysa,

Very well explained.  The entire State of Arkansas has only 2.5 million inhabitants.  Most towns are less than 2000 people some are much less than that.  Although rural Christians can be kind and thoughtful to each other, they are very aggressive to anyone who does not profess to be a Christian.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "notself"America is getting increasingly grim when it comes to religion... If my husband and I were younger, I think we would emigrate to Canada.

And increase the IQ of both countries in one fell swoop!  :eek:

QuoteAre you saying that the IQ of America would increase if I left?  

I don't know if Tank has thought this out.
I only know of one use of this expression.  This was by a New Zealand Prime Minister, describing citizens moving to Australia.
The meaning being only the stupidest New Zealanders would move to Aus, but they would be smarter than the average Australian.

Notself and Kylysa - Where you live sounds terrible!

Reminded me of that song from athists experience, I'm gonna punch you in the head for Jesus!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzGm-PwZQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzGm-PwZQw)

When I was at school it'd be more likely to be the religeious ones who'd get bullied for their beliefs. Come to think of it I can't actually remember coming across any actively religeous kids at my school. Sounds like a different world over there!

Gonna come and 'do' America one day as I've never been, sounds like I'll have to be careful, I can imagine myself putting my foot in it left, right and centre!

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

QuoteAre you saying that the IQ of America would increase if I left?   :)

Quote from: "George"Notself and Kylysa - Where you live sounds terrible!

Reminded me of that song from athists experience, I'm gonna punch you in the head for Jesus!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzGm-PwZQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzGm-PwZQw)

When I was at school it'd be more likely to be the religious ones who'd get bullied for their beliefs. Come to think of it I can't actually remember coming across any actively religious kids at my school. Sounds like a different world over there!

Gonna come and 'do' America one day as I've never been, sounds like I'll have to be careful, I can imagine myself putting my foot in it left, right and centre!

Atheists joke about fundamentalist Christians but they are no joke.  This young man I know is a fundamentalist Christian and just got elected to Justice of the Peace for his district.  The office itself is no big deal but his advisers and backers for his campaign are located 3 hours away in Little Rock.  These older politicians are grooming this kid to be the next generation of far right politicians.  This is part of a long range plan to turn the USA into a Christian theocracy that accepts Intelligent Design as science.  I know this sounds unbelievable but the following document was produced (unintentionally) in response to a subpoena in the Kitzmiller case.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller ... _documents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District_trial_documents)
This document is called the Wedge Strategy.  http://www.antievolution.org/features/wedge.html (http://www.antievolution.org/features/wedge.html)

QuoteThe social consequences of materialism have been devastating. As symptoms, those consequences are certainly worth treating. However, we are convinced that in order to defeat materialism, we must cut it off at its source. That source is scientific materialism. This is precisely our strategy. If we view the predominant materialistic science as a giant tree, our strategy is intended to function as a "wedge" that, while relatively small, can split the trunk when applied at its weakest points. The very beginning of this strategy, the "thin edge of the wedge," was Phillip ]ohnson's critique of Darwinism begun in 1991 in Darwinism on Trial, and continued in Reason in the Balance and Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds. Michael Behe's highly successful Darwin's Black Box followed Johnson's work. We are building on this momentum, broadening the wedge with a positive scientific alternative to materialistic scientific theories, which has come to be called the theory of intelligent design (ID). Design theory promises to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions.

I live in Arkansas because this is where my extended family is.

Such a radical shift in the political landscape will change a great deal of things in the US if the religious right are to carry on with their anti-scientific agenda. If unchecked (I'm not sure how much of it will be) I think various areas of the country becoming so polarised will cause new borders to be created. Maybe even new countries. If the christians are really trying to eradicate 'scientific materialism', two things will happen; people who make money will continue to find ways to do so and the people who want to continue their way of life will continue to find ways to do so. This means mass migrations of moderate people to the coasts and right wingers to the bible belts. One thing is for sure, religious people turning their backs on scientific materialism will quickly find out how much money that used to net them.

I don't believe the christians can win this one, though. I consider the rabid way with which christianity is acting right now to be its last ditch effort for total domination. It is reacting to the challenges to its foundations, in most part, by the inception of the internet. It is no longer able to keep enclaves of people 100% isolated from the rest of humanity like it used to. People in the most staunchly christian areas now have access to other ideas and these ideas are empowering a new generation of people to question what they've been force-fed. I think they also underestimate how many people are atheist, agnostic and moderately christian in the country. In reality, I think the numbers would make them choke on their grits.

There are too many intelligent people in the US to let anything untoward happen to the constitution, or so I hope.

Quote from: "notself"

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "notself"America is getting increasingly grim when it comes to religion... If my husband and I were younger, I think we would emigrate to Canada.

And increase the IQ of both countries in one fell swoop!  :eek:

lol  I got that wrong. The IQ of America would go down and the IQ of Canada would go up. I was paraphrasing (incorrectly) a comment of the New Zealand Prime minister.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_humour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_humour)

QuoteAustralians are the butt of Kiwi humour (and vice versa) â€" even at the highest diplomatic level. During the 1980s, then Prime Minister of New Zealand Robert Muldoon was asked about the increasing exodus of New Zealanders leaving the country to work in Australia. His comment was that by doing so, they were raising the average IQ of both countries. The joke derives from the Will Rogers phenomenon.

A more recent Prime Minister commented that the New Zealand tourists visiting Bondi Beach had the same effect.

My Bad notself, I managed to get the intent of my post 180 degrees about face!

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

QuoteAre you saying that the IQ of America would increase if I left?  

I don't know if Tank has thought this out.
I only know of one use of this expression.  This was by a New Zealand Prime Minister, describing citizens moving to Australia.
The meaning being only the stupidest New Zealanders would move to Aus, but they would be smarter than the average Australian.

Spot on TMP!

Quote from: "karadan"I don't believe the christians can win this one, though. I consider the rabid way with which christianity is acting right now to be its last ditch effort for total domination. It is reacting to the challenges to its foundations, in most part, by the inception of the internet. It is no longer able to keep enclaves of people 100% isolated from the rest of humanity like it used to. People in the most staunchly christian areas now have access to other ideas and these ideas are empowering a new generation of people to question what they've been force-fed. I think they also underestimate how many people are atheist, agnostic and moderately christian in the country. In reality, I think the numbers would make them choke on their grits.

There are too many intelligent people in the US to let anything untoward happen to the constitution, or so I hope.

I think your observation about the Internet allowing the spread of information is very pertinent here. However, the Internet is indiscriminate about what information it spreads. I would cite Answers In Genesis (http://www.answersingenesis.org/) and the Discovery Institute (http://www.discovery.org/) as just two examples of professional dis-information funded by elements of the Christian world. The Internet is open to exploitation by any individual or group, it's the nature of the beast.

However, I would agree with you that the internet, and forums just like this one, have given a group and community to free-thinkers/humanists/atheists that could never have existed before. The internet has given access to differing opinion (to a Christian opinion) in a way previously unknown in it's scope and potential penetration of previously closed societies.

Now if the Christian right try to get control of the information on the Internet in America in the way the Chinese currently have in China then I would say America would face their second civil war. It would be over free access to information.

So I'm not sure that it is a foregone conclusion that freethinking/humanism/atheism will win out in the end, if for no other reason than Christianity is, at the end of the day, an appeal to the emotions, it is inclusive, it requires little intellectual effort to join, it requires no individual moral code on the part of its members, it's the easy way out. The alternative asks people to stand up and be counted as responsible individuals, it requires one to go against the majority view, it requires one to hold/defend views more sophisticated than 'God do it!', it's not the easy way out.

The final outcome of The Enlightenment is still, in my opinion, in the balance and will be until the last Church/Mosque/Temple is voluntarily turned into a museum to humanities collective love of superstition, and as that will probably never happen I don't think there will ever be a 'winner', just a change in the balance in world views.

Could we arrange a B-Ark to take all the faithfull to heaven?

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Could we arrange a B-Ark to take all the faithfull to heaven?

Been done, it's called The Rapture. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F2438%2Fheheoc.gif&hash=50cf1131f6316b9f48965cce1bfe1877dc8f90e7)

Quote from: "George"Gonna come and 'do' America one day as I've never been, sounds like I'll have to be careful, I can imagine myself putting my foot in it left, right and centre!

It depends on where you are and such.  The vast majority here don't care what you believe so long as you keep it to yourself.  There's a loud minority who will preach publicly.

I've found that simply saying "I don't share your faith" is a polite yet effective way of getting across the point to get  your religion out of my face, but that was in D/FW or here in SoCal, not Bumpkin, Arkansas.

Quote from: "Tank"I think your observation about the Internet allowing the spread of information is very pertinent here. However, the Internet is indiscriminate about what information it spreads. I would cite Answers In Genesis (http://www.answersingenesis.org/) and the Discovery Institute (http://www.discovery.org/) as just two examples of professional dis-information funded by elements of the Christian world. The Internet is open to exploitation by any individual or group, it's the nature of the beast.

However, I would agree with you that the internet, and forums just like this one, have given a group and community to free-thinkers/humanists/atheists that could never have existed before. The internet has given access to differing opinion (to a Christian opinion) in a way previously unknown in it's scope and potential penetration of previously closed societies.

Now if the Christian right try to get control of the information on the Internet in America in the way the Chinese currently have in China then I would say America would face their second civil war. It would be over free access to information.

So I'm not sure that it is a foregone conclusion that freethinking/humanism/atheism will win out in the end, if for no other reason than Christianity is, at the end of the day, an appeal to the emotions, it is inclusive, it requires little intellectual effort to join, it requires no individual moral code on the part of its members, it's the easy way out. The alternative asks people to stand up and be counted as responsible individuals, it requires one to go against the majority view, it requires one to hold/defend views more sophisticated than 'God do it!', it's not the easy way out.

The final outcome of The Enlightenment is still, in my opinion, in the balance and will be until the last Church/Mosque/Temple is voluntarily turned into a museum to humanities collective love of superstition, and as that will probably never happen I don't think there will ever be a 'winner', just a change in the balance in world views.

Of course, they can play the internet game too, but for a time in the US, it wasn't even possible to hear a dissenting view on religion. Christianity had such a hold over all and every media type that it was all people knew. To have such blanket saturation is impossible these days, even if they retort with the kind of BS like the creationist institute. Now, if anyone grows a seed of doubt in their heads, all they need to do is log on and type atheism into :yay:

I totally agree with you about the civil war. Last time opinion was so divided in the US, a civil war happened.
If the religious far right manage to get enough power, i'm sure we'll see more and more instances of these leaders putting god before constitution. There will have to be a point where someone says enough is enough. I just hope by that point someone like palin isn't in power, with their hand hovering over a launch button.

Oh, by the way, i found this rather lovely piece written by a theist on the boston.com website http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/0 ... riage.html (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/08/same-sex_marriage.html) about the recent overturning of prop 8.

I am a Christian. I believe strongly that the common interpretation of what the Bible says about homosexuality is wrong, and that it is based on mistranslation and cultural misinterpretation of the original text. When read with understanding of the original language, the culture of the time, the intent of the author, and a larger theological perspective there is no real Biblical support for condemning homosexual relationships on the basis of gender alone. The Bible is far more concerned with promiscuity and divorce, frankly.

That said, none of that matters because at least in the U.S. our laws are not dictated by the Bible or the beliefs of any religion. It doesn't matter what you think is religiously right or wrong. The question we ask when we make a law for or against something is whether the act in question causes harm to others, restricts the freedom of others, or endangers the fabric of society or the safety of the country as a whole.

I know a lot of people FEEL like homosexuality and gay marriage hurt others, but all the empirical evidence we have shows otherwise. There is objective harm harm to straight marriages, there is no harm to children involved, there is no public healthy risk. All arguments other than "the Bible says" and "I just think it's wrong" fail the test of law. And denying marriage restricts freedoms of one segment of the population over another. If you don't like the Constitution, move.


Goes to show there are lots of awesome theists out there.

Quote from: "karadan"Of course, they can play the internet game too, but for a time in the US, it wasn't even possible to hear a dissenting view on religion. Christianity had such a hold over all and every media type that it was all people knew. To have such blanket saturation is impossible these days, even if they retort with the kind of BS like the creationist institute. Now, if anyone grows a seed of doubt in their heads, all they need to do is log on and type atheism into :yay:

I totally agree with you about the civil war. Last time opinion was so divided in the US, a civil war happened.
If the religious far right manage to get enough power, i'm sure we'll see more and more instances of these leaders putting god before constitution. There will have to be a point where someone says enough is enough. I just hope by that point someone like palin isn't in power, with their hand hovering over a launch button.

The religious right shot its bolt in the last ten years.  It will stay around, but be politically hamstrung  by the Bush legacy: two undeclared wars, disappearing middle class, economic misery, and a giant expansion of the national debt.

It's the runt of the litter that cries the loudest.

Quote from: "George"Notself and Kylysa - Where you live sounds terrible!

Reminded me of that song from athists experience, I'm gonna punch you in the head for Jesus!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzGm-PwZQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUzGm-PwZQw)

When I was at school it'd be more likely to be the religeious ones who'd get bullied for their beliefs. Come to think of it I can't actually remember coming across any actively religeous kids at my school. Sounds like a different world over there!

Gonna come and 'do' America one day as I've never been, sounds like I'll have to be careful, I can imagine myself putting my foot in it left, right and centre!

I moved from a county with a population of around 27,000 to one with a population of around 600,000 and it has made a world of difference.  It's not exactly 100% safe to be an out atheist here, if you work outside the home (I'm a freelance writer) you might lose your job or you might suffer a bit of vandalism but no one will beat anyone's children at school if the kids gets found to have a non-Christian parent.  I have no children, BTW, but I feel much safer here in the Greater Grand Rapids area than back in dear old Hart.

If you are a tourist, most of Americans don't care a whit about your religious beliefs as long as you spend money.  Just don't settle down in a small American town if you want to avoid the possibility of religious problems.  

The fricking hilarious thing about Oceana County (where I grew up) is that every year a place called Whiskey Creek holds what may be the world's largest Womyn's Music Festival, more than doubling the county's population for a couple of weeks each summer.  Because the festival brings in money, citizens there tolerate it and just make a few rude remarks about it now and then.  But if you were to just be a resident there and be an out lesbian, I'd fear for your life and safety.

Quote from: "karadan"Oh, by the way, i found this rather lovely piece written by a theist on the boston.com website http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/0 ... riage.html (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/08/same-sex_marriage.html) about the recent overturning of prop 8.

I am a Christian. I believe strongly that the common interpretation of what the Bible says about homosexuality is wrong, and that it is based on mistranslation and cultural misinterpretation of the original text. When read with understanding of the original language, the culture of the time, the intent of the author, and a larger theological perspective there is no real Biblical support for condemning homosexual relationships on the basis of gender alone. The Bible is far more concerned with promiscuity and divorce, frankly.

That said, none of that matters because at least in the U.S. our laws are not dictated by the Bible or the beliefs of any religion. It doesn't matter what you think is religiously right or wrong. The question we ask when we make a law for or against something is whether the act in question causes harm to others, restricts the freedom of others, or endangers the fabric of society or the safety of the country as a whole.

I know a lot of people FEEL like homosexuality and gay marriage hurt others, but all the empirical evidence we have shows otherwise. There is objective harm harm to straight marriages, there is no harm to children involved, there is no public healthy risk. All arguments other than "the Bible says" and "I just think it's wrong" fail the test of law. And denying marriage restricts freedoms of one segment of the population over another. If you don't like the Constitution, move.


Goes to show there are lots of awesome theists out there.

A sensible view for sure.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"The fricking hilarious thing about Oceana County (where I grew up) is that every year a place called Whiskey Creek holds what may be the world's largest Womyn's Music Festival, more than doubling the county's population for a couple of weeks each summer.  Because the festival brings in money, citizens there tolerate it and just make a few rude remarks about it now and then.  But if you were to just be a resident there and be an out lesbian, I'd fear for your life and safety.

Reminds me of this song and the associated attitude

[youtube:3bh9m557]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJEKhLZ2lPk[/youtube:3bh9m557]

Living in rural America is like living in the Middle Ages.  Conformity in religious views is paramount.  There is great suspicion of education in general and higher education in particular.  This is manifest by so much mistrust of public schools that as many children are homeschooled as are enrolled in public schools. Children are allowed to attend the local two year college but are discouraged from getting a degree at a 4 year institution.  Parents believe that education leads to loss of faith and they rather their children be devout than educated.  Most people attend religious services twice a week and some three times a week.  Town officials lead people in prayer at public events.  In my county, one cannot buy a drink at a restaurant without joining a sham "private club".  One cannot buy alcohol at all on Sunday.  Rural states lead the nation in teen pregnancy, meth labs, and sexually transmitted disease.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... rths_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-01-07-teenbirths_N.htm) http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm (http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm)  

Most of the armed forces of the United States are from religiously conservative areas.  Fundamentalist religion has permeated all sections of the military.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washi ... hurch.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washington/01church.html)  

Watch this video from Al Jazeera on religion in the American military. Just because I am paranoid about religion doesn't mean that my paranoia is not well founded.  Undermine the schools, control the media and the military and fundamentalist Christians can control the country.
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 10845.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/faultlines/2009/06/200962675254610845.html)

I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.

Some of you revere the Founding Fathers more than Jesus, some revere Jesus way more than the Founding Fathers. What will you do when they want to put up a cross in the grounds of the White House? Would you take up arms to defend the constitution? Because from the outside it looks that there are extremist Christians who would want to and rip up the constitution in the process. If push came to shove would you exercise your constitutional right to bear arms to defend the constitution? If not, can you actually call yourself an American? That's not as trollish as it could be considered, I'm asking a serious question.

What happens if a cornered minority of Christians lead by a fanatical army general tried to storm the White House, what would you do?

Quote from: "notself"Living in rural America is like living in the Middle Ages.  Conformity in religious views is paramount.  There is great suspicion of education in general and higher education in particular.  This is manifest by so much mistrust of public schools that as many children are homeschooled as are enrolled in public schools. Children are allowed to attend the local two year college but are discouraged from getting a degree at a 4 year institution.  Parents believe that education leads to loss of faith and they rather their children be devout than educated.  Most people attend religious services twice a week and some three times a week.  Town officials lead people in prayer at public events.  In my county, one cannot buy a drink at a restaurant without joining a sham "private club".  One cannot buy alcohol at all on Sunday.  Rural states lead the nation in teen pregnancy, meth labs, and sexually transmitted disease.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... rths_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-01-07-teenbirths_N.htm) http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm (http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm)  

Most of the armed forces of the United States are from religiously conservative areas.  Fundamentalist religion has permeated all sections of the military.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washi ... hurch.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washington/01church.html)  

Watch this video from Al Jazeera on religion in the American military. Just because I am paranoid about religion doesn't mean that my paranoia is not well founded.  Undermine the schools, control the media and the military and fundamentalist Christians can control the country.
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 10845.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/faultlines/2009/06/200962675254610845.html)

Yeah, I've lived in both rural and urban America, from East Texas and central Illinois to California.  While there are many rural areas such as you describe, they are hardly representative of small-town America as a whole, in my experience.  It is the generalization of your personal experience to the breadth of America that arouses my objection.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.

Some of you revere the Founding Fathers more than Jesus, some revere Jesus way more than the Founding Fathers. What will you do when they want to put up a cross in the grounds of the White House? Would you take up arms to defend the constitution? Because from the outside it looks that there are extremist Christians who would want to and rip up the constitution in the process. If push came to shove would you exercise your constitutional right to bear arms to defend the constitution? If not, can you actually call yourself an American? That's not as trollish as it could be considered, I'm asking a serious question.

What happens if a cornered minority of Christians lead by a fanatical army general tried to storm the White House, what would you do?

[Emphasis by Thump]

Regarding the emphasized passage, is it not the case in Europe too that the media focus on the loudmouths?

To answer your hypotheticals, in order:

1) I would bring the cross on the lawn to the attention of the ACLU, and watch the suit wend through the system, until the display was struck down, by lawful means.

2) I have, indirectly, taken up arms in defense of the Constitution.  I gather, however, you don't mean in the military; if that is your gist, then the answer is no, I haven't, because there is no need to have done so.

3) I took my honorable discharge 20 years ago; however, I do not regard my oath to defend the Constitution as having lapsed.  I would die happy if by my death I knew I would ensure the longer life of the Bill of Rights.

4) Americans aren't required to be self-sacrificial.

I was raised in rural Washington and nothing that's been said about rural America can be applied to me or the majority of my peers.  My extended family all come from rural Iowa, and from what I've been told, the characterization of rural America that's been put forth wouldn't apply to them either.  Not all rural America is backwards, stupid and intensely religious.  Some of it certainly is, but definitely not all of it.

Also, from what I've been told, Al Jazeera is about as reputable a news source as FOX News.  Is that not true?

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Regarding the emphasized passage, is it not the case in Europe too that the media focus on the loudmouths?

Yes they most definitely do, which would imply that we (Europeans) get the same distorted impression of the USA. That is rather good to hear!

Heh, we're not all retarded.  

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.

Quote from: "Tank"Some of you revere the Founding Fathers more than Jesus, some revere Jesus way more than the Founding Fathers. What will you do when they want to put up a cross in the grounds of the White House? Would you take up arms to defend the constitution? Because from the outside it looks that there are extremist Christians who would want to and rip up the constitution in the process. If push came to shove would you exercise your constitutional right to bear arms to defend the constitution? If not, can you actually call yourself an American? That's not as trollish as it could be considered, I'm asking a serious question.

What happens if a cornered minority of Christians lead by a fanatical army general tried to storm the White House, what would you do?

By "we" I mean the collective "we"--as in "we the people".  Whenever there is some controversy that affects the public at large the first question that is raised is "is this constitutional?".  Our elected officials are not in position to put the bible ahead of that question.  Extremists are just that, a small number of people at the far end of the spectrum.  

If there had to be a fight, it wouldn't be physical in nature.  I personally would join thousands of other non-christians in non-violent protest if there was a giant cross in front of the White House.  

As for the "fanatical army general", he'd be in direct opposition of the law.  Only a relatively small number of soldiers would follow.  Unfortunately for them, they'd be quickly snuffed out by the rest of the army and the combined might of the other branches of the military.  The survivors would likely be hung.  Nasty stuff indeed, but far from a holy civil war. The actual fighting might last a day or two.

Quote from: "notself"Living in rural America is like living in the Middle Ages.  Conformity in religious views is paramount.  There is great suspicion of education in general and higher education in particular.  This is manifest by so much mistrust of public schools that as many children are homeschooled as are enrolled in public schools. Children are allowed to attend the local two year college but are discouraged from getting a degree at a 4 year institution.  Parents believe that education leads to loss of faith and they rather their children be devout than educated.  Most people attend religious services twice a week and some three times a week.  Town officials lead people in prayer at public events.  In my county, one cannot buy a drink at a restaurant without joining a sham "private club".  One cannot buy alcohol at all on Sunday.  Rural states lead the nation in teen pregnancy, meth labs, and sexually transmitted disease.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/200 ... rths_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-01-07-teenbirths_N.htm) http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm (http://www.avert.org/std-statistics-america.htm)  

Most of the armed forces of the United States are from religiously conservative areas.  Fundamentalist religion has permeated all sections of the military.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washi ... hurch.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/washington/01church.html)  

Watch this video from Al Jazeera on religion in the American military. Just because I am paranoid about religion doesn't mean that my paranoia is not well founded.  Undermine the schools, control the media and the military and fundamentalist Christians can control the country.
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 10845.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/faultlines/2009/06/200962675254610845.html)

Gee, it sounds like we live in the same county almost!
Most big city Americans and those abroad have no idea what it's like living in fear of small minded towns finding out you are not religious.  Yep, I lie through my teeth more often than not, even my 'friends' here would turn and toss the first stones should they find out.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I don't think that there will ever be holy civil war on US soil.  Ultimately, the US was founded on freedom as a principle--it could never be a fascist state de jure. In the US, the bible is second to the Constitution.  We revere our founding fathers  more than Jesus.  The fact that Obama actually got elected tends to make me believe that we are going in forward, not reverse.

Quote from: "Tank"Some of you revere the Founding Fathers more than Jesus, some revere Jesus way more than the Founding Fathers. What will you do when they want to put up a cross in the grounds of the White House? Would you take up arms to defend the constitution? Because from the outside it looks that there are extremist Christians who would want to and rip up the constitution in the process. If push came to shove would you exercise your constitutional right to bear arms to defend the constitution? If not, can you actually call yourself an American? That's not as trollish as it could be considered, I'm asking a serious question.

What happens if a cornered minority of Christians lead by a fanatical army general tried to storm the White House, what would you do?

By "we" I mean the collective "we"--as in "we the people".  Whenever there is some controversy that affects the public at large the first question that is raised is "is this constitutional?".  Our elected officials are not in position to put the bible ahead of that question.  Extremists are just that, a small number of people at the far end of the spectrum.  

If there had to be a fight, it wouldn't be physical in nature.  I personally would join thousands of other non-christians in non-violent protest if there was a giant cross in front of the White House.  

As for the "fanatical army general", he'd be in direct opposition of the law.  Only a relatively small number of soldiers would follow.  Unfortunately for them, they'd be quickly snuffed out by the rest of the army and the combined might of the other branches of the military.  The survivors would likely be hung.  Nasty stuff indeed, but far from a holy civil war. The actual fighting might last a day or two.

Might make a good film script?  

I looked.  I couldn't find any movies about Christian extremists trying to take over the US.  It would make a great movie Tank.  Are you a writer?

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I looked.  I couldn't find any movies about Christian extremists trying to take over the US.  It would make a great movie Tank.  Are you a writer?

Jesus Camp

Jesus Camp on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s)

I have lived in small towns in Virginia, Georgia, Arkansas and have had extended visits in Fresno, CA and two small towns in Montana.  They are all the same.  Perhaps the small towns outside of the South and the conservative areas of certain States are less religious, I certainly hope so.

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I looked.  I couldn't find any movies about Christian extremists trying to take over the US.  It would make a great movie Tank.  Are you a writer?

No. I do amateur stories and that's all I'm ever going to say on the matter.  

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"The religious right shot its bolt in the last ten years.  It will stay around, but be politically hamstrung  by the Bush legacy: two undeclared wars, disappearing middle class, economic misery, and a giant expansion of the national debt.

It seems some will accept any nonsense if it is said in a serious voice and vilifies liberals.
I thought Obama was already being held responsible for Bush's mess.
What can you do with people who believe stone age children played with dinosaurs?

In regard to extreme political action, I wonder what would happen if terrorists perform an extreme act, such as a dirty bomb.

If terrorists detonated a dirty bomb in the USA, we would have marshal law and a dictatorship.  We came close to this under Bush and Obama has done very little to pull back from the Bush Administration's eroding of our civil liberties.  We still have the worst and most repressive parts of the Patriot Act.  Obama banned direct torture but still supports rendition.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"The religious right shot its bolt in the last ten years.  It will stay around, but be politically hamstrung  by the Bush legacy: two undeclared wars, disappearing middle class, economic misery, and a giant expansion of the national debt.

It seems some will accept any nonsense if it is said in a serious voice and vilifies liberals.
I thought Obama was already being held responsible for Bush's mess.
What can you do with people who believe stone age children played with dinosaurs?

In regard to extreme political action, I wonder what would happen if terrorists perform an extreme act, such as a dirty bomb.

Yeah, there are idiots everywhere; but most Americans are pretty common-sensical.  The fundies are a small proportion of the polity here, admittedly larger than those fragments in Europe, I think, but not nearly so powerful as is portrayed in the media.

Furthermore, the fundies are damaging the right-wing in general by flocking to the Tea Party.  They are setting up the right-wing for a schism, and I don't think they will stop, because they are so inflexible.

Too, once the economy turns around, Obama won't be pilloried as much, except by the extremists.  

Were I a Democratic campaign manager, I could promise my candidate an even shot even in the Deep South (I'd point out my opponent's votes against unemployent benefits extension); and in the West and Northeast, I could damned near guarantee a victory.

The media is merely focusing on the loudest talkers; the vast majority of Americans understand that we're in a deep hole, and the last thing we want to do is reinstate the diggers.

Quote from: "notself"Jesus Camp on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s)

I have lived in small towns in Virginia, Georgia, Arkansas and have had extended visits in Fresno, CA and two small towns in Montana.  They are all the same.  Perhaps the small towns outside of the South and the conservative areas of certain States are less religious, I certainly hope so.

Thanks, for the movie.  Should be good for a laugh (or cry) when I watch it.  I'm going to a family reunion in a small city (pop 15000) in Maryland near the West Virginian boarder.  I plan to tell them all that I'm an atheist.  I hope I make it out alive.

Wait until the last night of your stay. It will save a lot of upset.

I found Jesus Camp to be really really disturbing.  Like, I avoid watching it again at all costs disturbing.  "Audience of One", though not a movie about extremists trying to take over America, was hilarious.  There's something about listening to a hyper religious guy trying to convince the city he shouldn't have to pay rent on a movie studio because God blah blah blah and then getting the power shut off and having his mom criticize his leadership abilities that sets my shriveled little atheist heart a flutter.  Schadenfreude isn't very attractive, but it is extremely satisfying at times.

I'm glad I read the above.  I was about to sit back and have a giggle fest.  I'll give "Audience of One" a try. I'll save Jesus Camp for a sad/mad day.

Quote from: "walkerneo"I get the feeling that I am suffocating in the stupidity, stubbornness, and ignorance common to all religious people. It infuriates me how they think that they are right and look at you like they pity you for not being religious because they think you're going to hell. It would be nice to know that I'm not alone in this world full of religious people.

I understand how you feel it drives you mad but take to the internets people speak freely here.

Quote from: "Davin"

Quote from: "humblesmurph"I looked.  I couldn't find any movies about Christian extremists trying to take over the US.  It would make a great movie Tank.  Are you a writer?

Jesus Camp

 roflol

I thought I had it bad here in Beverly Hills, but I can't believe what you guys are telling me about some parts of rural America. Is anyone here from somewhere with a large atheist community?

 Religion is understandable to some extent. I understand that in cases of severe trauma, knowing that you will see loves ones again after they die might be the only thing keeping you from committing suicide. Religious people like that wouldn't bother me, but the only religious people I've met or know are religious because they don't know any better.

My main problem is that my mother is a schizophrenic who has all sorts of religious beliefs and thinks the the movie "The Fourth Kind" was based on actual events. She thinks she was abducted and that there are "lizard people" who are some sort of alien transformers whose true form looks like a lizard... She gets mad at me for not believing in god and looking at her like she's crazy for telling me things like this. Not really much I can, but I just wanted some confirmation that I'm not the only who's overwhelmed by religious people.

Quote from: "walkerneo"I understand that in cases of severe trauma, knowing that you will see loves ones again after they die might be the only thing keeping you from committing suicide.

I'd think they'd want to speed up the reunion?

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your mother.  Mental illness can devastate the whole family, and not just the victim.

Can I be the only person here whose heart breaks when people do not give glory to God?
Edit: Thanks to i_am_i for pointing out my grammar mistake.

Quote from: "Ned"Can I be the only person here who's heart breaks when people do not give glory to God?

If you want to, I wouldn't volunteer for that though, unless I could do a sweet Elvis impersonation.

You are the only Christian who's managed to not be banned that I've seen, but I've seen a Buddhist and an I-don't-know-what-he-is theist too.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You are the only Christian who's managed to not be banned that I've seen, but I've seen a Buddhist and an I-don't-know-what-he-is theist too.

Others have lasted longer in the past, but that's not to say that they behaved better while they were here. Most eventually became too consistently confrontational, arrogant, and preachy and got banned, or grew bored of their own antics and left. I'm hoping if my brother comes along soon, he might break with the stereotypes that too many christians have reinforced here; for once proving to our existing members that sustained, repectful, intelligent, discourse is possible between (some) atheists and (some) christians, even those of the evangelical, fundamentalist persuasion.

It could happen.

I hear you.  It's frustrating, to me, that theists aren't often on atheists forums.  And, aside from what another theist here has already implied, it ain't because of bans, but because of an inability to take questioning.

I can sort of understand that; if I had to explain the same stuff over and over, I'd get pretty tired of that crap too.

Come to think of it ....

double post.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You are the only Christian who's managed to not be banned that I've seen, but I've seen a Buddhist and an I-don't-know-what-he-is theist too.

What the heck did the Buddhist do to get banned?  Right speech is highly important in Buddhist teachings.

He may have been a theist.  There is a small section of Buddhism which calls itself "the one true Buddhism" that is theistic.

Quote from: "Ned"Can I be the only person here who's heart breaks when people do not give glory to God?

It's whose, not "who's." "Who's" means who is.

So what you've said here is: "Can I be the only person here who is heart breaks when people do not give glory to God?"

It makes no sense.

Quote from: "Ned"Can I be the only person here who's heart breaks when people do not give glory to God?

Generally no, any believer can do that    However you may be the only person here who does it. But that's fine as it's an expression of your world view and as this aspect of your world view that IMO does no real harm to others then go for it! You don't need my permission or that of anybody else to believe what you want to of feel the effects of those beliefs.

How does one give glory to God? How does one give glory to anyone or anything? What does giving glory mean?

"I've got something I want to give you."

"Oh yeah, what is it?"

"It's glory. Read the card."

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"I hear you.  It's frustrating, to me, that theists aren't often on atheists forums.  And, aside from what another theist here has already implied, it ain't because of bans, but because of an inability to take questioning.

I can sort of understand that; if I had to explain the same stuff over and over, I'd get pretty tired of that crap too.

Come to think of it ....

I think it is because ultimately, they are arguing an untenable position. There's some proper bright sparks on this forum. Even the most respectful christian will eventually have doubts about coming here again simply because we have an answer for everything. Wouldn't it be awful if the more intelligent ones started to be swayed by our arguments?  :)  )

Quote from: "notself"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You are the only Christian who's managed to not be banned that I've seen, but I've seen a Buddhist and an I-don't-know-what-he-is theist too.

What the heck did the Buddhist do to get banned?  Right speech is highly important in Buddhist teachings.

He may have been a theist.  There is a small section of Buddhism which calls itself "the one true Buddhism" that is theistic.

I wasn't trying to say that the Buddhist had gotten banned, sorry if I wasn't clear on that.  I was trying to list the religious or theistic amongst us.

Quote from: "Ned"Can I be the only person here who's heart breaks when people do not give glory to God?

Why does god need glory from me?
Why doesn't he make his own?
I don't think it's healthy for this super being to be wasting his time on us.
I know he has had problems with other gods in the past.
But for his own mental well being, I think he should give it another go.
He could find himself a nice goddess and settle down somewhere far far away.
It's worth a try.

Quote from: "i_am_i"How does one give glory to God? How does one give glory to anyone or anything? What does giving glory mean?

"I've got something I want to give you."

"Oh yeah, what is it?"

"It's glory. Read the card."

IMHO, the most appropriate way to give glory to God is to follow his commandments.

Quote from: "Ned"IMHO, the most appropriate way to give glory to God is to follow his commandments.

Why are so many of god's commandments just shoring up God's godly status.
He sounds more than a little insecure to me.
I think all that time on his own has left him with serious issues.

Quote2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

3 Do not have any other gods before me.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name

I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg517.imageshack.us%2Fimg517%2F6655%2Fpmslsu0.gif&hash=864936626eaf8fd08f72c935dec3770cf5cd5bb5)

Ned, you can not be serious? That film is main stream 'torture porn' no better than Hostel or the SAW series. The subject matter may be the demise of the one JC but the film is just a bass appeal to the emotions of the audience. I've seen it and I felt sympathy for the character of JC as I would anybody subjected to treatment like that. I have been a supporter and contributor to Amnesty International since I was about 20.

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Why is that Ned?
Wasn't it Jesus’ plan all along to get himself tortured and nailed to a cross.
Lots of people suffer as bad or worse with no say in the matter.
Is god asking for forgiveness for whooping cough, small pox or polio?
People cured these things by asking and answering questions the religious would have left unspoken.

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Ned, Ned, Ned....   That movie was little more than an attempt by Mel's strange brand of Catholicism, to a) make money, and b) guilt/scare/appeal to emotion to get people back in the pews.  It was also as Tank mentioned little more than a gore-fest, and while I did feel sympathy for JC in the movie, I also feel sympathy for all victims of the slash and gash/torture movies that I sometimes allow my wife to talk me into watching (which is not too often, I admit.)

I also see where you say something about following god's commandments, are you talking about the "ten commandments" of the old testament?  My argument to that is that most of the ten aren't actually "laws" but religious edicts, and the ones that might be seen as religious "laws" actually mirror our own non-religious laws.

I have been reading Hitchens "Essential readings for non-believers" which is an anthology of writings on the subject of religion and it's affects on mankind over history, there are some really good pieces in there, I recommend you read it.  MOST atheists either read or have read the bible, but very few theists read anything written against the bible, or which defends the atheist positions.  I've often wondered why that is.  Any comments?

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Oh come on Ned, the movie wasn't that bad.

Quote from: "Davin"

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Oh come on Ned, the movie wasn't that bad.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imageshack.us%2Fimg710%2F9922%2Frimshot.gif&hash=590a281f743b7502fe29563866406a691e8e705c)

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Why, is this one of those rare instances where the movie is better than the book?

Quote from: "walkerneo"It infuriates me how they think that they are right and look at you like they pity you for not being religious because they think you're going to hell. It would be nice to know that I'm not alone in this world full of religious people.

You are NOT alone.  It pisses me off when religious people say "I'm sorry" when I tell them I don't believe in a god.  I usually respond that I find their comment very disrespectful because I don't say to them "I'm sorry" when I find out that they believe in something that is make believe.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Why, is this one of those rare instances where the movie is better than the book?

Nothing could better a book which contains the message of salvation.

Quote from: "Ned"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Why, is this one of those rare instances where the movie is better than the book?

Nothing could better a book which contains the message of salvation.

Nothing but the absence of a need for either.

Suits me, anyway.

Quote from: "Ned"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Why, is this one of those rare instances where the movie is better than the book?

Nothing could better a book which contains the message of salvation.

What's weird is that this superlative book didn't make me do what you claim the movie will do.

That doesn't compute.

What might fail to come across on the page is brought spectacularly to life by Caviezel's spellbinding performance.

Quote from: "Ned"What might fail to come across on the page is brought spectacularly to life by Caviezel's spellbinding performance.

So you're not against magic spells?

Quote from: "Davin"

Quote from: "Ned"What might fail to come across on the page is brought spectacularly to life by Caviezel's spellbinding performance.

So you're not against magic spells?

Man, Harry Potter was just a movie... with Daniel Radcliffe!

Quote from: "Davin"

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

Oh come on Ned, the movie wasn't that bad.

n1

Quote from: "Ned"Man, Harry Potter was just a movie... with Daniel Radcliffe!

Blasphemer!
Harry Potter was many books, many mega movies, millions of Potter themed parties and much more.

Quote from: "Ned"What might fail to come across on the page is brought spectacularly to life by Caviezel's spellbinding performance.

So an acting performance communicates more than God's perfect word?

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

All that film confirmed to me was Mel Gibson's obsession with gore porn and the outrageous double standards and hypocrisy of christianity by forcing children to see a film which should only be viewed by 18+ year olds. It gave people justification to mentally scar a generation of children just because it had jesus in it. That really pissed me off. Show an accidental boob on TV and half the country soil themselves with rage. Force minors to watch two hours of grizzly torture and no one bats a fucking eyelid.

I'm sure there were grounds for lawsuits against schools, parents and cinemas for letting children see that travesty of a film. Wholesale human rights' abuses right there.

 :upset:  

Here is a parable that explains what will happen on the Day of Judgement.  It takes only a few moments to read.
And then you can **** your pants.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2025:31-25:46&version=ESV

Quote from: "Ned"Here is a parable that explains what will happen on the Day of Judgement.  It takes only a few moments to read.
And then you can **** your pants.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2025:31-25:46&version=ESV

According to this parable, one need only be a compassionate and generous person to get into "heaven". There are as many compassionate and generous  atheists in my town as there are compassionate and generous Christians.  I see no reason for anyone to **** their pants, unless it's you.  You appear a certain smug disdain for the members of this board, hardly a compassionate attitude.

This sermon is also recommended reading. http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper90/04-08-90.htm

Quote from: "notself"

Quote from: "Ned"Here is a parable that explains what will happen on the Day of Judgement.  It takes only a few moments to read.
And then you can **** your pants.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2025:31-25:46&version=ESV

According to this parable, one need only be a compassionate and generous person to get into "heaven". There are as many compassionate and generous  atheists in my town as there are compassionate and generous Christians.  I see no reason for anyone to **** their pants, unless it's you.  You appear a certain smug disdain for the members of this board, hardly a compassionate attitude.

There's also a measure of thinly veiled contempt as well.

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

I recommend that everyone here watches Monty Python's "Life of Brian" starring Graham Chapman.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees laughing at this silly God business.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: "Ned"I recommend that everyone here watches Mel Gibson's "The Passion of The Christ" starring Jim Caviezel.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees and begging God's forgiveness.

I recommend that everyone here watches Monty Python's "Life of Brian" starring Graham Chapman.  I am fairly confident that it will have you falling to your knees laughing at this silly God business.

I think "Life of Brian" is a great film.

Quote from: "Ned"I think "Life of Brian" is a great film.

Oh good.
There's hope for you yet.
But just remember,

QuoteAlways look on the bright side of life...
    (I mean - what have you got to lose?)
    (You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
    What have you lost? Nothing!)
    Always look on the right side of life...

Quote from: "Ned"This sermon is also recommended reading. http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper90/04-08-90.htm

Wow, I wouldn't recommend that for reading at all. Unless you find baseless assertions and taking things way out of context entertaining.

Quote from: "Davin"

Quote from: "Ned"This sermon is also recommended reading. http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper90/04-08-90.htm

Wow, I wouldn't recommend that for reading at all. Unless you find baseless assertions and taking things way out of context entertaining.

Are you not terrified by the possibility of the Christ you have denied coming on the clouds in great power and glory?

Quote from: "Ned"

Quote from: "Davin"

Quote from: "Ned"This sermon is also recommended reading. http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper90/04-08-90.htm

Wow, I wouldn't recommend that for reading at all. Unless you find baseless assertions and taking things way out of context entertaining.

Are you not terrified by the possibility of the Christ you have denied coming on the clouds in great power and glory?

Why is it, at the end of the day, preachments always end with threats, either veiled (as is the case here) or explicit?  Perhaps you "**** your pants" at the thought; me, I believe that:

1) Any Creator who might have created me understands my skepticism better than I do myself;
2) said Creator will see that I have done the best I could to live a good life and do no harm;
3) said Creator is otherwise beyond any mortal ken, so that your preachments are simply babbling in the dark about the monster in the closet;
4) finally, I believe that there is no such Creator, but people like you have an interest in perpetuating belief in him for your own emotional, psychological, and/or financial reasons.

So no, I'm not terrified.

[youtube:1ifncu32]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAXPUN2z2CE[/youtube:1ifncu32]

Quote from: "Davin"

Quote from: "Ned"This sermon is also recommended reading. http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper90/04-08-90.htm

Wow, I wouldn't recommend that for reading at all. Unless you find baseless assertions and taking things way out of context entertaining.

Quote from: "Ned"Are you not terrified by the possibility of the Christ you have denied coming on the clouds in great power and glory?

Me personally, not one jot, zilch, nadda, couldn't give a toss and could not care less, it just doesn't figure on my radar as being even remotely possible, I'd consider it more likely that I would win the lottery every week for a year without even entering. I think that's plain enough, it just won't happen, ever.

Quote from: "Ned"

Quote from: "Davin"

Quote from: "Ned"This sermon is also recommended reading. http://www.soundofgrace.com/piper90/04-08-90.htm

Wow, I wouldn't recommend that for reading at all. Unless you find baseless assertions and taking things way out of context entertaining.

Are you not terrified by the possibility of the Christ you have denied coming on the clouds in great power and glory?

Are you not terrified by the possibility of the boogeyman you have denied coming on the clouds in great power and glory?

Are you not terrified by the possibility of the monster under the bed you have denied coming out from under the bed in great power and glory?

Are you not terrified by the possibility of Odin who you have denied coming on the Sleipnir in great power and glory?

In other words, no.  I am not afraid of things I don't believe exist.  Even scary things like a flying vengeful zombie hippie!

GFY

Quote from: "Ned"GFY

So, Ned. You ready to go bye bye?

What does GFY mean?

(is that a silly question?)    

Quote from: "karadan"What does GFY mean?

(is that a silly question?)    :secret:

Quote from: "pinkocommie"

Quote from: "karadan"What does GFY mean?

(is that a silly question?)    :secret:

Aha. The derogatory version would make more sense, coming from Ned.

Quote from: "karadan"Aha. The derogatory version would make more sense, coming from Ned.

That's the funniest thing about these types... "Jesus loves you and died to save you, so go fuck yourself!"  

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I was raised in rural Washington and nothing that's been said about rural America can be applied to me or the majority of my peers.  My extended family all come from rural Iowa, and from what I've been told, the characterization of rural America that's been put forth wouldn't apply to them either.  Not all rural America is backwards, stupid and intensely religious.  Some of it certainly is, but definitely not all of it.

Also, from what I've been told, Al Jazeera is about as reputable a news source as FOX News.  Is that not true?

As for living in rural Washington, that doesn't count because you are on the Left Coast. (This is what people call the West Coast in Arkansas when they are being polite). Iowa is much more liberal than the South.  As for video posted on Al Jazeera's web site, it is spot on.  Watch the video again and then read this.  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100821/ap_ ... t_soldiers (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100821/ap_on_en_mu/us_christian_concert_soldiers)

The Air Force and Army military academies have both been accused of proselytizing students by fundamentalist religious officers and instructors.  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/us/25 ... .html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/us/25academies.html?_r=1)

Quote from: "notself"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I was raised in rural Washington and nothing that's been said about rural America can be applied to me or the majority of my peers.  My extended family all come from rural Iowa, and from what I've been told, the characterization of rural America that's been put forth wouldn't apply to them either.  Not all rural America is backwards, stupid and intensely religious.  Some of it certainly is, but definitely not all of it.

Also, from what I've been told, Al Jazeera is about as reputable a news source as FOX News.  Is that not true?

As for living in rural Washington, that doesn't count because you are on the Left Coast. (This is what people call the West Coast in Arkansas when they are being polite). Iowa is much more liberal than the South.  As for video posted on Al Jazeera's web site, it is spot on.  Watch the video again and then read this.  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100821/ap_ ... t_soldiers (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100821/ap_on_en_mu/us_christian_concert_soldiers)

The Air Force and Army military academies have both been accused of proselytizing students by fundamentalist religious officers and instructors.  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/us/25 ... .html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/us/25academies.html?_r=1)

I read that about the Christian concert today - it'll be interesting to see what repercussions occur if any.    

My comment about rural Washington and Iowa was in response to your comment -

QuoteLiving in rural America is like living in the Middle Ages.

I felt that that was an incorrect statement because of how general the statement was - you didn't say living in some areas of rural America, you simply said rural America.  Having grown up in rural America, I felt inclined to speak up as a reminder that your experience with rural America is not indicative of all rural America.  I don't see how rural Washington doesn't count as rural America, though, so I guess we must have different ideas of what would be considered rural America?  Are you just using the term 'rural America' instead of 'the South'?  Hahaha.  Regardless, I don't disagree that living in *some* of rural America is like living in the middle ages.

As for the questions about Al Jazeera - I was seriously asking if it was a reputable news organization.  I guess I should start a new thread instead of asking it here though.  Sorry!

From what I have read from the Al Jazeera  itself, it seems as balanced as any news source.  Before the Democratic Convention back when everyone was curious about who Obama would pick for President, Al Jazeera predicted it would be Biden.  It is an interesting paper.

I read several online newspapers and they are all more balanced than Fox. That's not hard to do.

Yes, I agree not all small town America is the same if only because nothing is universal.

pinkocommie,

I wonder if the differences between your experiences with small towns and mine have to do with the predominate religion of the small towns.  The two largest religious groups who control most of the town are variations of Baptist followed by variations of Pentacostols.  These people are so serious about their religious beliefs that the talk about the end times at town fairs and tractor pulls.

Well, I lived in Pittsburg, TX not too far from Texarkana, and that's about as dyed-in-the-wool SoBaptist as you can get, and we sure didn't run around doing that.   Also lived in Paso Robles, CA, which was a mix of Baptist and Methodist, mostly; again, no xian zombieland thing going on.  Same with Millington, TN, Rantoul, Il, and Soccorro, NM, in which places I've spent a total of about 16 months.

I'm sure there are weird little niches where everyone walks around talking about endtimes, but to assert that they are a general feature of rural Americana doesn't match what I've seen in my life.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Well, I lived in Pittsburg, TX not too far from Texarkana, and that's about as dyed-in-the-wool SoBaptist as you can get, and we sure didn't run around doing that.   Also lived in Paso Robles, CA, which was a mix of Baptist and Methodist, mostly; again, no xian zombieland thing going on.  Same with Millington, TN, Rantoul, Il, and Soccorro, NM, in which places I've spent a total of about 16 months.

I'm sure there are weird little niches where everyone walks around talking about endtimes, but to assert that they are a general feature of rural Americana doesn't match what I've seen in my life.

I was speaking of my town.  Note that I used the phrase "the town" in my comments.  I have looked at some of the towns you listed and the average age of the populations is between 30-35.  The average age of my town is 53.  Perhaps that is the reason I hear so much about the end times and the thinking is so rigid.  

Tell me, in the towns you mention, when you have a fair or town celebration does the mayor say a Christian prayer to kick things off?  I have been in a store and when the clerk added up the bill it totaled $6.66 and she crossed through the number and charged $6.65 because she didn't want to charge me the devil's number.  Have you had a similar experience in any of your towns?  Have you gone into restaurants in your towns and had pictures of Jesus hanging on the wall as decor?

Quote from: "notself"I was speaking of my town.  Note that I used the phrase "the town" in my comments.  I have looked at some of the towns you listed and the average age of the populations is between 30-35.  The average age of my town is 53.  Perhaps that is the reason I hear so much about the end times and the thinking is so rigid.  

My apologies, I was still thinking in the generalized terms appearing earlier in the thread.

QuoteTell me, in the towns you mention, when you have a fair or town celebration does the mayor say a Christian prayer to kick things off?

I've seen that before, but I've also seen prayer-less events.

QuoteI have been in a store and when the clerk added up the bill it totaled $6.66 and she crossed through the number and charged $6.65 because she didn't want to charge me the devil's number.  Have you had a similar experience in any of your towns?

No.

QuoteHave you gone into restaurants in your towns and had pictures of Jesus hanging on the wall as decor?

Yes, but those were the exceptions, in my experience.

Ironically enough (in the context of this conversation), a buddy of mine in the Air Force, a vociferous atheist, was from Pine Bluff.

Quote from: "notself"pinkocommie,

I wonder if the differences between your experiences with small towns and mine have to do with the predominate religion of the small towns.  The two largest religious groups who control most of the town are variations of Baptist followed by variations of Pentacostols.  These people are so serious about their religious beliefs that the talk about the end times at town fairs and tractor pulls.

That's a good point and I'm sure that does affect the public climate in regard to religiosity in a given area.  I've never experienced living in a Baptist community - that sounds like living in some uneasy bizarre-o world.

I think the overall size of the state may have something to do with the conforming mindset.  Arkansas has a total population of 2.8 million.  The capitol is the largest city and has a population of 600,000.  Pine Bluff is about 50,000 and Fayetteville is 50,000.  Most of the towns have populations of 2000 or less.  When I go to Little Rock, I drive through a towns with populations of 1200, 600 and the smallest "town" has a population of 9.

The best thing happening in Arkansas right now is the funding of $100,000+ to provide broad band Internet access to all communities.  I think over time, that will make a huge difference.

Thump,
Does your Airforce buddy have any trouble from the higher ups for being an atheist?

Not --

Granted that it was 20 years ago, neither he nor I (who was also openly atheist) ever got into anything other than some wonderful conversations with our co-workers after duty-hours, out in front of the fire station.

I'm told that the situation is different today, but I have no first-hand knowledge one way or the other.

My husband was in the military back then.  No one even spoke about religion.  Things have really changed.

My local citizens have just hung a large sign in the City Hall that says "IN GOD WE TRUST".  The mayor doesn't think it will cause a problem and of course he is right.    

Quote from: "pinkocommie"

Quote from: "karadan"What does GFY mean?

(is that a silly question?)    :secret:

I did mean "Good For You" (albeit sarcastically).  Apologies if you took it to mean something more offensive.

I personally don't see much of a distinction between a sarcastic 'good for you' and saying 'go fuck yourself', so no apology required.