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halloween

Started by billy rubin, October 28, 2022, 10:30:44 PM

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Bluenose

Quote from: Icarus on October 31, 2022, 01:40:59 AMSad to learn that Halloween has not gone well in Seoul.  Some kind of Halloween crowd rush has killed more than 100. WTF  ???

 

So sad    :'(
+++ Divide by cucumber error: please reinstall universe and reboot.  +++

GNU Terry Pratchett


Asmodean

#16
Quote from: Magdalena on October 30, 2022, 09:18:06 PMOnly you, Asmo, and maybe Tom62,
Well, we occupy broadly similar political niche. That said,

Quotewould find negativity in that quote. I see absolutely nothing about  victimhood there. I don't know how you managed to go from there to there.
...But I will follow your words/advice, and, "...give less of a fuck about that."
 :levitate:
That is not how I see it though. Mr. King wanted his kids to grow up in a place that judges people by the content of their character, rather than the colour of their skin.

So... What kind of place has the United States* become since the fifties and sixties, when I assume his kids were born? Well, if you pardon some spicy pixels on the screen, it went from "Niggers bad," through "I don't see color so hard, I end up seeing nothing else" to "Understanding Multiracial Whiteness" <- part of a real news/op-ed article, that. In any case;

People who give a shit about such matters went from racist to different racist to everything is racist. The old groupings still exist, of course, but are not as dominant in media or the wider culture. People who don't give a shit... Still don't, though more and more are being dragged into a debate and "forced" to take sides. Letting them mind their own business as they would like to would be a good start, I think.

Long story short, yes, it would be nice if King Jr. Jrs had such a world to grow up in, but they don't. What negativity is there, is not in the quote or the aspiration therein - it's in a world that "always" tries fighting fire with fire, then "always" complains about getting nothing but burned.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

billy rubin

excellent!

wait

backlevel

sorry


set the function, not the mechanism.

Tom62

Quote from: Asmodean on October 31, 2022, 07:27:01 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 30, 2022, 09:18:06 PMOnly you, Asmo, and maybe Tom62,
Well, we occupy broadly similar political niche. That said,

Quotewould find negativity in that quote. I see absolutely nothing about  victimhood there. I don't know how you managed to go from there to there.
...But I will follow your words/advice, and, "...give less of a fuck about that."
 :levitate:
That is not how I see it though. Mr. King wanted his kids to grow up in a place that judges people by the content of their character, rather than the colour of their skin.

So... What kind of place has the United States* become since the fifties and sixties, when I assume his kids were born? Well, if you pardon some spicy pixels on the screen, it went from "Niggers bad," through "I don't see color so hard, I end up seeing nothing else" to "Understanding Multiracial Whiteness" <- part of a real news/op-ed article, that. In any case;

People who give a shit about such matters went from racist to different racist to everything is racist. The old groupings still exist, of course, but are not as dominant in media or the wider culture. People who don't give a shit... Still don't, though more and more are being dragged into a debate and "forced" to take sides. Letting them mind their own business as they would like to would be a good start, I think.

Long story short, yes, it would be nice if King Jr. Jrs had such a world to grow up in, but they don't. What negativity is there, is not in the quote or the aspiration therein - it's in a world that "always" tries fighting fire with fire, then "always" complains about getting nothing but burned.

I agree with the Asmo here. I care about the individual person and don't give a shit what the colour of your skin is; what gender you have or what group you "belong" in (or are attributed to). Furthermore, I don't feel responsible for anything that my great-, great-, great- parents might have done centuries ago.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Asmodean

Indeed. You see, Tom and I are what ye-average keyboard warrior on Twitter would call a pair of nazis. How very dare we promote individualism and meritocracy? Don't we know that Hitler... Yeah. He did neither.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Magdalena

Quote from: billy rubin on October 30, 2022, 10:57:02 PMim starting to give more of a fuck, period.

i used to just let the racists talk, and not call them on it, because there was no point, you know? theyll never change.

lately ive started to speak my mind more and more, and to let the racists know that theyre not in a safe place around me. i have a ways to go, but i call the fuckers out more and more these days.

its not hard to envision a world where we just get along with each other. i prefer not to live in a world where people express hate and hostility in security. i want them to be on the defensive every time they spew it out, t least around me.

im still getting there, because i tend not to confront people, you know? its a habit thats going away.  ive been cnfronting more and more of these shitheads lately and im not likely to get any nicer as time goes on, because im getting more polarized and less interested in getting along.


"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Magdalena

Quote from: Bluenose on October 31, 2022, 03:52:26 AMI went to a combined halloween/birthday party on Saturday night.  Live band playing 70s and 80s covers.  It was a blast!


:grin:

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

billy rubin

individualism and a meritocracy are lofty ideals, but they operate on the underlying assumption of equality in education, in opportunity, and in access to those pathways that operate based on merit and individual achievement.

in my country that does not yet exist. i believe in advancing all citizens to the same starting line on the track. those people who have been denied access to the relevant training, equipment, and sponsorship should get it, not because they are victims, but because no race is a fair race when some people get a head start and other people are forced to accept a handicap.

once everybody runs the same race, all the talk about individual effort and merit is relevant. but in my country we have other tasks to accomplish first.


set the function, not the mechanism.

Magdalena

Quote from: Asmodean on October 31, 2022, 01:34:52 PMIndeed. You see, Tom and I are what ye-average keyboard warrior on Twitter would call a pair of nazis. ...
:notsure:
Not sure if you're bragging or complaining.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Magdalena

Quote from: Tom62 on October 31, 2022, 12:46:47 PM...Furthermore, I don't feel responsible for anything that my great-, great-, great- parents might have done centuries ago.

"great-, great-, great- parents" and "Centuries" sounds like a long-, long-, long- time ago, WW II wasn't that far back.

My grandpa was born in 1901.
He was about 40 years old during WW II. And about 16, during WW I.
Great-, great-, great-grandpa would be waaaaayyy back.

—Just saying.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Asmodean

Quote from: Magdalena on October 31, 2022, 01:49:22 PMNot sure if you're bragging or complaining.
for me personally, annoying them Twitterati is a bit of a point of pride. Not a lot - just... Mildly satisfying.

Quote from: billy rubin on October 31, 2022, 01:48:24 PMindividualism and a meritocracy are lofty ideals, but they operate on the underlying assumption of equality in education, in opportunity, and in access to those pathways that operate based on merit and individual achievement.
I disagree on both accounts. There is very little lofty to individualism and meritocracy - in fact, they are closer to populist ideas than some academic cloud-gazing.

Within a society, Individualism addresses the rights and obligations of an individual and holds the individual as a sovereign/supreme unit of society. On the opposing end, Collectivism views the society as a group of groups, where the individual's core value is in the groups with which that individual is involved.

As for meritocracy, it does exist in the USA. For instance, if you are a very good car mechanic, in the long run, you are likely to attract more customers than a borderline-scammer within the same price range and area of business. (I can go full complexity on this thing if you find it interesting. There is more to it - and some ways around it, to a degree)

Quotein my country that does not yet exist. i believe in advancing all citizens to the same starting line on the track.
Over here, everyone has to finish ten years of school. Higher education is available, but the access is largely based on merit. (Those with the best grades get the available spots first) I think that's a fine system.

Beyond that, I don't think you can mandate people to have a home, be responsible with their income, take care of their health, etc.

I think the best you can hope for, is legal equality, which, from what I understand, the United States largely has.

Quotethose people who have been denied access to the relevant training, equipment, and sponsorship should get it, not because they are victims, but because no race is a fair race when some people get a head start and other people are forced to accept a handicap.
What you are proposing though, it necessitates precisely giving people with some sort of handicap a head start (alternatively, hold those without back) because we do not indeed start on the same line - we are not born clones of each other and between biology, circumstance and upbringing, there are as many lines out there as there are people.

Quoteonce everybody runs the same race, all the talk about individual effort and merit is relevant.
That is simply untrue. You can climb your proverbial hill smarter, harder and longer than the other guy. Your success, however you measure it, is yours to create - be it with or against the odds.

On a side note, I'm not sure how much you put into the word "effort." If it is a key word, than we are probably talking past each other when it comes to meritocracy. It's merit, not effort, that counts. As in, how proficient/successful you are in what you do - not how hard you do it. It's what you can show for it.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

billy rubin

you clearly have never visited an oklahoma niggertown, asmo. lots of oklahoma toens have one. they hsve them in texas too.

unpaved roads, no sewers, substandard schools. until the 1950s you could be arrested in oklahomas white sundown towns if you were black and there after dark. arrest was the preferred outcome. signal mountain in tennessee is still like that.

some places in america abolished all public schools in the 1950s rather than let black kids go to school with white kids. the white kids got taxpayer subsidized private education. the black kids got no education, for a whole generation. theyre still around, but always behind

in american indian reservations, there often is no access to the benefits you describe in your country. look uo pine ridge in the dakotas. the poorest place in the western hemisphere, after haiti, i think.

the american military is an exampke of an institution that works on providing equal starting lines. ill try to find the name of the program.

got to go


set the function, not the mechanism.

Tom62

Quote from: Magdalena on October 31, 2022, 02:06:30 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on October 31, 2022, 12:46:47 PM...Furthermore, I don't feel responsible for anything that my great-, great-, great- parents might have done centuries ago.

"great-, great-, great- parents" and "Centuries" sounds like a long-, long-, long- time ago, WW II wasn't that far back.

My grandpa was born in 1901.
He was about 40 years old during WW II. And about 16, during WW I.
Great-, great-, great-grandpa would be waaaaayyy back.

—Just saying.

My country was neutral during WW-I and occupied by the Germans in WW-II. We no longer hold the current generation of Germans accountable for what their parents and grandparents did in both wars. We don't forget but we also also have no grievances. Lessons learned, time to move forward because it is stupid to stay stuck in the past.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Biggus Dickus

When I clicked on a thread in the Laid Back Lounge titled Halloween I wasn't expecting to see the "N-word" being thrown around (Especially by an Administrator). What happened, did Elon Musk purchase both Twitter and HAF?

Is this place now going to be known as the "Happy Aryan Forum"?

"Some people just need a high-five. In the face. With a chair."

Magdalena

Quote from: Tom62 on October 31, 2022, 05:47:47 PMMy country was neutral during WW-I and occupied by the Germans in WW II. We no longer hold the current generation of Germans accountable for what their parents and grandparents did in both wars. We don't forget but we also have no grievances. Lessons learned, time to move forward because it is stupid to stay stuck in the past.


Good.

However, here, in the USA, the lesson hasn't been learned yet. People can't move forward and they/we have grievances because the descendants of slave owners and their hateful ideas and treatment of blacks and minorities refuse to move forwards with the times.

We can't "forget" or "forgive" yet if they continue to find "legal" ways to keep us down, call us derogatory names, laugh and deny it when we confront them, and even find it something to be proud of. They find "annoying" us...
"Not a lot - just... Mildly  satisfying."

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant