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General => Politics => Topic started by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 28, 2022, 01:01:34 AM

Title: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 28, 2022, 01:01:34 AM
Roe v. Wade is gone. The constitutional right to an abortion is no more. This brought to mind the question of where rights come from. I re-read the concurring opinion of Justice Arthur Goldberg in Griswold v. Connecticut (1965 case recognizing right to privacy related to contraception), and was reminded of his argument in favor of the 9th Amendment as the best foundation for all these cases. That neglected amendment says that just because a right is not specifically enumerated in the Constitution, that does not mean it does not exist. Going back to the Declaration of Independence, the political philosophy underlying our nation's founding is that rights are endowed by "the Creator" - whether you think of that Creator as a theistic God, a deistic God, or the God of Nature. Rights are not created by the Constitution. They arise naturally and are acknowledged and protected by that document. A right can be recognized that is not enumerated in the Constitution. When we talk of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration, the right to the pursuit of happiness is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights. But Jefferson said it exists. How can one pursue happiness without some degree of autonomy over his/her own body? How can we be happy without some degree of privacy? While no right may be absolute in all cases, it exists, and may have to be weighed against other rights. But the rights of autonomy and privacy seem absolutely fundamental to a society that says it is "conceived in liberty" (Gettysburg Address). Overturning Roe v. Wade was wrong.

With Roe gone and the underlying right to privacy hit and taking on water, it is only a matter of time before same-sex marriage and even the right to buy contraception end up on the scrap heap. The Supreme Court is forcing extremist Catholicism on us all. And if those people affected are not free, then I am not free, either.

ADD YOUR MESSAGE
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Bluenose on June 29, 2022, 05:00:17 AM
The solution IMHO dear American friends is to get out and vote, vote like you have never done before, everyone effected by this dreadful decision and who is opposed to it, get out and vote this November.  Elect a tidal wave of blue representatives to both houses of congress, elect blue candidates in your local areas.  Stop the GOP/xtian Taliban in its tracks.  Then look at means to redress the unbalance in SCOTUS, oh, and maybe do something concrete about gun control too, while you're at it.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Icarus on June 29, 2022, 05:23:07 AM
Well said Bluenose.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 08:11:16 AM
I'm with Nose. Go vote, people! Win or loose, make yourself count.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on June 28, 2022, 01:01:34 AMA right can be recognized that is not enumerated in the Constitution.
This is a question of semantics, but I wonder...

What is the practical difference between "recognising" a right and "creating" one? One day you may be legally prevented from exercising it, then the next day - not. Is it just a matter of background? I can see how "recognise" would imply that there was a process by which the right-to-be evolved, so to speak, while "create" implies something more inorganic and committee-like. Or is there a practical distinction?

Same question would do for striking down a right and revoking recognition.

Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on June 29, 2022, 06:00:44 PM
. . . snd do NOT vote absentee because the republicans are doing all they can to invalidate those in afvance.

i used to vote absentee all the time. never again.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Tom62 on June 29, 2022, 08:53:23 PM
The Democrats had several times in modern history the majority in the House and Senate. Stupid question from a foreigner: Why didn't they use that opportunity to create a federal abortion law?
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on June 29, 2022, 09:33:28 PM
Strange that whites who are thought by the left to be racists, are making laws where they will increase the darker colors of their populations, while decreasing over time, the white taxpayers who will support the darker change.

A strange thing to do to ones socio economic demographic pyramid.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 09:35:28 PM
I'll second Tom's question.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: jumbojak on June 29, 2022, 09:58:55 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 09:35:28 PMI'll second Tom's question.

For the same reason that Republicans never repealed the National Firearms Act. It gives their base something to be motivated about.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 10:10:10 PM
Ah... The actual job of the elected official coming a distant second to having a path to being (re-) elected... Cynical. I can see that happening if not always, perhaps still enough.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on June 29, 2022, 11:08:21 PM
Quote from: Tom62 on June 29, 2022, 08:53:23 PMThe Democrats had several times in modern history the majority in the House and Senate. Stupid question from a foreigner: Why didn't they use that opportunity to create a federal abortion law?

NOT A STUPID QUESTION.

the democrats represent big monied intetests and dont give a shit about average people.

obama claimed to want to do what you are asking when elected but a year later stated that "roe is not my biggest priority."

the democrats take tbeir supporters for granted and are surprised they cease to be supporters

they actually gave money to an anti abortion democrat in order to beat a pro choice candidate in the primary. the antiabortion guy won by about 150 votes.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 29, 2022, 11:37:45 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 08:11:16 AMWhat is the practical difference between "recognising" a right and "creating" one? One day you may be legally prevented from exercising it, then the next day - not. Is it just a matter of background? I can see how "recognise" would imply that there was a process by which the right-to-be evolved, so to speak, while "create" implies something more inorganic and committee-like. Or is there a practical distinction?


Good question. IMHO, there is a practical difference. For example, if the right of privacy, upon which are based many SCOTUS decisions, including Roe v. Wade, is considered "created" by the Constitution, then for literalists, there is no such right, as the Constitution does not mention a right to privacy.

However, if the right to privacy is "acknowledged" or "recognized" under the 9th Amendment, then it is a natural right, and is protected. Then Roe v. Wade is upheld. The literalists now have the majority in SCOTUS, so they overturned Roe v. Wade. The practical difference is that women no longer have the right to determine their own medical treatment and no longer have autonomy over their own bodies.

There is no Constitutional basis for Congress to pass an anti-abortion law, IMHO. The US Congress has limited powers to enact laws, and medical decisions are traditionally left to the states. If they attempted to pass such a law under the Interstate Commerce Clause, then they would run into the filibuster powers of the minority party in the Senate. Dems would have to have have at least 60 members in the Senate to overcome the filibuster. It is one of the quirks of USA law. Dems have not had this power in recent history except for a brief time in 2009. https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/  It would have been nice to see a law then, but it did not happen. So Dems missed their one opportunity. But then, Roe v. Wade seemed secure. No one anticipated Donald Trump getting 3 SCOTUS nominees.

But Dems have rarely been as aggressive as the GOP. Dems do not have the killer instinct that the GOP has. 
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: jumbojak on June 30, 2022, 12:55:09 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 10:10:10 PMAh... The actual job of the elected official coming a distant second to having a path to being (re-) elected... Cynical. I can see that happening if not always, perhaps still enough.

Being an MOC is a sweet gig. You receive a handsome salary, excellent benefits, a bulletproof retirement, and the opportunity for insider trading, grift, etc. Even if you were elected with the best of intentions, the corrupting influence of your new peers seems almost inescapable for freshmen in Congress.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on June 30, 2022, 06:58:13 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3542471-biden-calls-for-filibuster-carveout-to-protect-abortion-rights?utm_source=hill_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link

well this was a long time coming.

QuotePresident Biden on Thursday said the Senate should carve out an exception to the 60-vote filibuster to codify abortion rights after the Supreme Court overturned the precedent set by Roe v. Wade.

biden has been playing the dead bipartisan card since he started. eliminating the filibuster is long, long overdue, and it should go away permanently.

now that mr milquetoast has gotten out in front of his constituency finally, he needs to learn how to twist arms so what he proposes can actually pass.

if its just more talk and no tesults, his second term is history.

Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Icarus on July 01, 2022, 06:31:35 AM
May as well insert a little bit of humor...
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Icarus on July 01, 2022, 06:31:35 AMMay as well insert a little bit of humor...

Humor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 01, 2022, 08:53:09 PM
I honestly don't get this obsession with white. I want the future generations to pay my pension and pave my roads and staff my retirement home and mow the grass on my grave. Colour won't help or hurt any of that.

Now, if they be hot to look at, then I suppose I could be one of them lecherous elderly uh... Lechers? Beyond that, though, what's the point?

Then again, I'm not leaving my world to anybody, so I suppose my perspective is hugely shaped by that.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on July 01, 2022, 10:26:20 PM
Asmo, you promised the destruction of Luxembourg long ago, but have not followed through. If you would send your wrath now, all totalitarian leaders would fear you and stop making unjust wars. All other politicians would fear you and stop trampling on human rights. And people would mow the grass on your grave in honor of your many contributions.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 02, 2022, 01:03:40 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PMHumor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Icarus on July 01, 2022, 06:31:35 AMMay as well insert a little bit of humor...

Humor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Icarus on July 01, 2022, 06:31:35 AMMay as well insert a little bit of humor...

Humor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Icarus on July 01, 2022, 06:31:35 AMMay as well insert a little bit of humor...

Humor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Icarus on July 01, 2022, 06:31:35 AMMay as well insert a little bit of humor...

Humor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: Icarus on July 01, 2022, 06:31:35 AMMay as well insert a little bit of humor...

Humor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL

Wow.
I'm not gonna dignify your post with a response.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Anne D. on July 02, 2022, 04:27:36 AM
What Magdalena said.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Recusant on July 02, 2022, 08:05:49 AM
Yeah, Mr. "Bishop" has been proudly doing the turd in the punchbowl thing for years, across multiple discussion boards. The pernicious twaddle he spews is uninteresting and repulsive.  I'll leave it at that, in deference to the rules of this site.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 03, 2022, 03:13:45 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on July 02, 2022, 01:03:40 AMWow.
I'm not gonna dignify your post with a response.

The less intelligent do not give dignified responses.

They are in homophobic and misogynous religions.

Strange that right winger parents must hate their gay or female children to be a better religious person.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: No one on July 03, 2022, 05:16:50 PM
Well bishop, the almighty is slanted towards misogyny, is it not?

god's favorite color is penis, strange that the moronic believers never noticed.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 03, 2022, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 03, 2022, 03:13:45 PMThe less intelligent do not give dignified responses.

...
Regards
DL

Yes.
Just read your own post again.


Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PMHumor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL


Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 05, 2022, 10:42:46 PM
Quote from: No one on July 03, 2022, 05:16:50 PMWell bishop, the almighty is slanted towards misogyny, is it not?

god's favorite color is penis, strange that the moronic believers never noticed.

If all souls are not equal in value to God, he would have to explain his inability to create with consistent results.

Given that rib woman Eve was an afterthought, you are likely correct.

God hates pussy.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 05, 2022, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on July 03, 2022, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 03, 2022, 03:13:45 PMThe less intelligent do not give dignified responses.

...
Regards
DL

Yes.
Just read your own post again.


Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 01, 2022, 05:28:47 PMHumor is nice, but perhaps showing the white right that they are shooting themselves in the foot by saving more non-whites than whites.

Does reversing abortion laws give all non-white Americans a better socio-economic demographic position?

Statistically, more non-whites are aborted than whites.

Reverse this trend and the shrinking white demographic dominance goes into overdrive.

White is demographically shooting itself in the foot.

White power, at this point in time, is being quite generous to non-whites.
 
One might see it all as a huge white restitution and reparations to all those non-whites we white predators stressed.

Are white Americans who are on the right, aware of what they are giving up, demographically speaking?

Should the non-white Americans be on the right wing side on this, just for the benefits of fast tracking their control?

Regards
DL




That was not a response, stupid.

Nicely put logic trail though. Right?

White American's are being stupid demographically speaking, right?

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Recusant on July 06, 2022, 06:26:31 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 05, 2022, 10:46:54 PMThat was not a response, stupid.

Nicely put logic trail though. Right?

White American's are being stupid demographically speaking, right?

Regards
DL

You get one warning, and this is it. Read the rules (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,1522.0.html), particularly Rule 1.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 26, 2022, 12:13:33 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 01, 2022, 10:26:20 PMAsmo, you promised the destruction of Luxembourg long ago, but have not followed through.
It is doomed. DOOMED, He sayeth. :smilenod:

The Asmo, He hath plans within plans - ranging from a time scale of a few decades to around four billion years. He is patient and shalt be victorious, so sayeth The Gray Tome.

Them cogs are a-turnin' and them wicks are a-burnin'. :smilenod:
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 26, 2022, 01:25:05 PM
Quote from: Recusant on July 06, 2022, 06:26:31 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 05, 2022, 10:46:54 PMThat was not a response, stupid.

Nicely put logic trail though. Right?

White American's are being stupid demographically speaking, right?

Regards
DL

You get one warning, and this is it. Read the rules (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,1522.0.html), particularly Rule 1.
Quote from: Recusant on July 06, 2022, 06:26:31 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on July 05, 2022, 10:46:54 PMThat was not a response, stupid.

Nicely put logic trail though. Right?

White American's are being stupid demographically speaking, right?

Regards
DL

You get one warning, and this is it. Read the rules (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php/topic,1522.0.html), particularly Rule 1.

I will stay honest to a fault.

I am all about truth.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: No one on July 26, 2022, 05:42:21 PM
Truth, you keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 27, 2022, 12:18:18 AM
^^^
 ;D

We all know how much that word is abused.


"It's true."
"Believe me."
"Honestly."
"Ask anyone."
"I'm not lying."
"To tell you the truth."
"Let me be clear."
"The fact is."
"I'm being honest."
"I am all about truth."

 ::)


Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 27, 2022, 09:25:39 AM
To tell you the truth, everybody lies.

Honestly, that sounds like a linguistic paradox, but is not. The question is not so much whether everybody lies, as it is... How does it affect you, I suppose.

If it doesn't - yeah, whatever. If it does - is it to your advantage or detriment? The latter case could necessitate a flow chart of its own. That applies to the truth as much as it does lies, of course, so... Does it even matter that people lie?

Heh... I may have explained politics right there.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: No one on July 27, 2022, 02:58:25 PM
I AM UTTERLY OFFENDED!!!!

Never ever have I lied.

Side note: I love humans.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Tom62 on July 28, 2022, 06:26:30 AM
Maybe we should put a disclaimer when we say that something is true. Didn't Biden for example say that you can't get Covid if you are vaccinated? Well, that turned out very well for him. Also, nowadays the truth doesn't seem valid any more in comparison with our truth. You can even get cancelled for telling the truth. A common trend is to redefine words (like recession or racism) sothat anything you say can be considered to have an element of truth.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 07:29:03 AM
Quote from: No one on July 27, 2022, 02:58:25 PMI AM UTTERLY OFFENDED!!!!
I am Stephen Fry.  8)

Quote from: Tom62 on July 28, 2022, 06:26:30 AMAlso, nowadays the truth doesn't seem valid any more in comparison with our truth.
This right here.

What is the difference between my truth, the truth and a lie?

Well, if my truth is a single unit of faith, the truth is a large enough number of such units of faith. A lie is also a unit of faith, though if we assume that the liar knows that he's lying, then the faith is from those he lies to.

It may not seem intuitive out of the box, as truth has, by definition, the attribute of being true, which a lie does not. However, how many things that were true yesterday will be lies tomorrow - outright or by degrees of approximation?
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 28, 2022, 08:30:40 AM
Let's not forget that in (certain circles), falsehoods were referred to as:
alternative facts or
additional and alternative information.

So...

If I say that I have a huge penis, and someone says, that's not true. I can say,

"Saying that I have a huge penis is an alternative fact." Which means:
"It's not the truth, but if you chose to believe that it is the truth, it can be. You have the option of lying to yourself and others. Take advantage of the self-delusion option."

How?

"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening."
--Trump.



OK.
 ::)
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on July 28, 2022, 08:30:40 AMLet's not forget that in (certain circles), falsehoods were referred to as:
alternative facts or
additional and alternative information.
There are semantic ("water is dry, now let med define "water," "dry" and "is...") alternative facts, and then there are perspective-dependent ones. There is also ideological propaganda, but I'm staying out of that for now, well-knowing that those are probably the exact circles to which you refer, because there is actually an interesting side to alternate truths.

For instance, you can look at a rectangle and say for a fact that it is a rectangle. I can look at a circle and say for a fact that it is a circle. Someone else may look at the cylinder we're both looking at and say that it's neither. Assuming the possibility of additional dimensions of space and the passage of time, who, if any-one, is being truthful?

Quote"Saying that I have a huge penis is an alternative fact." Which means:
"It's not the truth, but if you chose to believe that it is the truth, it can be. You have the option of lying to yourself and others. Take advantage of the self-delusion option."
It could also mean that you have a giant, penis-shaped dildo, to which you just refer as a penis. Or you may be referring to your romantic interest's genitals as your own.

There is any number of ways in which your statement may indeed be a statement of fact from your perspective. In such instances, calling it "alternative" could be little more than the acknowledgement that others may see things differently.

A good, albeit somewhat controversial example; a transsexual man sees and refers to himself as a man. Another person sees and refers to him as a woman. Both are factual statements; "I am a man." "You are a woman." Both are alternative facts.

Note that I am not trying to court controversy here - this is just too good an example of both semantic and perspective-driven mutually-incompatible truths.

Quote"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening."
--Trump.

OK.
 ::)
Yep. Gotta give the Orange Man that one. What you're seeing and reading are at best approximations of what's happening. Versions of it, if you will. When speaking of media specifically, as I assume he was, that gets compounded with actively pushing narratives.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 28, 2022, 09:17:38 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 08:47:14 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on July 28, 2022, 08:30:40 AMLet's not forget that in (certain circles), falsehoods were referred to as:
alternative facts or
additional and alternative information.
There are semantic ("water is dry, now let med define "water," "dry" and "is...") alternative facts, and then there are perspective-dependent ones. There is also ideological propaganda, but I'm staying out of that for now, well-knowing that those are probably the exact circles to which you refer, because there is actually an interesting side to alternate truths.

For instance, you can look at a rectangle and say for a fact that it is a rectangle. I can look at a circle and say for a fact that it is a circle. Someone else may look at the cylinder we're both looking at and say that it's neither. Assuming the possibility of additional dimensions of space and the passage of time, who, if any-one, is being truthful?

Quote"Saying that I have a huge penis is an alternative fact." Which means:
"It's not the truth, but if you chose to believe that it is the truth, it can be. You have the option of lying to yourself and others. Take advantage of the self-delusion option."
It could also mean that you have a giant, penis-shaped dildo, to which you just refer as a penis. Or you may be referring to your romantic interest's genitals as your own.

There is any number of ways in which your statement may indeed be a statement of fact from your perspective. In such instances, calling it "alternative" could be little more than the acknowledgement that others may see things differently.

A good, albeit somewhat controversial example; a transsexual man sees and refers to himself as a man. Another person sees and refers to him as a woman. Both are factual statements; "I am a man." "You are a woman." Both are alternative facts.

Note that I am not trying to court controversy here - this is just too good an example of both semantic and perspective-driven mutually-incompatible truths.

Quote"Just remember, what you are seeing and what you are reading is not what's happening."
--Trump.

OK.
 ::)
Yep. Gotta give the Orange Man that one. What you're seeing and reading are at best approximations of what's happening. Versions of it, if you will. When speaking of media specifically, as I assume he was, that gets compounded with actively pushing narratives.

Nit-picky? Hell yes.

;D
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 10:10:56 AM
'Tis what He doth. :smilenod:

I must admit a certain fascination with people labelling differences in perspective as lies though. I think much of it is due to assuming malice before all other concerns, especially when it comes to any kind of political speech, where cylinders often are circles or rectangles.

That's not to say that there are no lies, of course, it's just that when someone says "This is a lie" and I ask them "Well, what does it look like from where the liar is standing," I almost never get the answer to the question I asked - rather, I get a version of the facts from the side accusing the other of lying. So, no motive, no projected gains, just... Opining out the ass, much like the accused liar likely was..?

...And so "we all" keep calling each other liars, looking at our geometric shapes with never a thought to the possibility of them being "true" parts of something more in a higher dimension.



"The Earth is round," said the Flat-Earther. I'd call it round too, though in a spheroidal kind of sense. Who's to say what a heptadimensional being would call it..?
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
why do you thinknthe esrth is round? is this a truth you assert from your own knowledge or do you depend on someone else to support the isea?
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 28, 2022, 02:34:51 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 12:16:57 PMwhy do you thinknthe esrth is round? is this a truth you assert from your own knowledge or do you depend on someone else to support the isea?

It's not round or flat, billy rubin, it's a heptagon.
Heptapods, or
heptadimensional beings will prove this alternative fact one day.
 :smilenod:
--You just wait for it.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 03:57:40 PM
lol

at least you didnt say oblate sphreroid

did you know the earth is hollow? im looking for video evidence right now

theres giant fungi too!
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 04:00:57 PM
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: No one on July 28, 2022, 04:23:04 PM
It's funny that any of you believe there's an "Earth".

FOOLS!!!!
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 06:16:57 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 12:16:57 PMwhy do you thinknthe esrth is round? is this a truth you assert from your own knowledge or do you depend on someone else to support the isea?
Mostly my understanding of geometry and a slight misuse of linguistics (in choosing a relatively imprecise word - "round.")
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 06:20:14 PM
Quote from: MagdalenaIt's not round or flat, billy rubin, it's a heptagon.
Heptapods, or
heptadimensional beings will prove this alternative fact one day.
 :smilenod:
--You just wait for it.
...Or we may never know. In that case, their perception of Earth may not be relevant, but would it still be true?

Just imagine time being a coordinate in this. For a being perceiving it from the outside, I suspect the Earth would look kind of like a 4D sausage if seen along the time axis, with every single point on said axis corresponding to a 3D Earth at that precise moment in time.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 28, 2022, 09:17:44 PM
Quote from: No one on July 28, 2022, 04:23:04 PMIt's funny that any of you believe there's an "Earth".

FOOLS!!!!
Checkmate, everyone!
It's in all caps.
That makes it truer.
And louder.
Can't argue with it now.
 :P
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 28, 2022, 10:44:01 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 06:20:14 PM...

Just imagine time being a coordinate in this. For a being perceiving it from the outside, I suspect the Earth would look kind of like a 4D sausage if seen along the time axis,
...

"a 4D sausage."
(https://c.tenor.com/fvtlyFwMvucAAAAC/ew-nope.gif)

"Just imagine time being a coordinate in this."

--That's a mighty long sausage.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 11:48:22 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 06:20:14 PM
Quote from: MagdalenaIt's not round or flat, billy rubin, it's a heptagon.
Heptapods, or
heptadimensional beings will prove this alternative fact one day.
 :smilenod:
--You just wait for it.
...Or we may never know. In that case, their perception of Earth may not be relevant, but would it still be true?

Just imagine time being a coordinate in this. For a being perceiving it from the outside, I suspect the Earth would look kind of like a 4D sausage if seen along the time axis, with every single point on said axis corresponding to a 3D Earth at that precise moment in time.

i dont believe in linear time.

i think time is a series of interdependent instants, each instant requiring the concurrent existence of the instant before and the instant after.

like turtles, all the way down.

the implication of this is that time is multidimensional , a series of side-by-side playing cards, just like the multidimensional nature of the multiverse.

course it might not be, but the interesting point is that our sense of linear time might be an illusion

this is closely related to st thomas aquinas's five ways, arguments for the existence of god. but aquinas was an idiot, and his reasonimg was unsound. if you  apply valid arguments, you end up with time being a valid infinite regress
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 29, 2022, 02:27:20 AM
^^^
billy rubin, I think you'll like the movie:
Arrival
PG-13.
Sci-fi/Thriller.
1h 56m

 ;)
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 29, 2022, 08:21:21 AM
Quote from: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 11:48:22 PMi dont believe in linear time.
I may be completely wrong about this, because I'm not too well-read on the subject, nor do I have really well-polished opinions, but I think time as we commonly understand it is just a measure of change. A unit of entropy, if you will. That said...

Quotei think time is a series of interdependent instants, each instant requiring the concurrent existence of the instant before and the instant after.
Quantised time could still be represented in a linear fashion.

Quotethe implication of this is that time is multidimensional , a series of side-by-side playing cards, just like the multidimensional nature of the multiverse.
Multidimensional time... Cool. Honestly though, I think it would do little with the example I used, beyond adding a coordinate. Thus, in addition to slicing across spacetime plane to get your sausage bits, you'd be slicing across a spacetime "volume," or a plane of spacetimes, which in the first instance would result in each slice yielding a spacetime within a single higher order of Time*, rather than space at a singular moment in time.

*Using Time to distinguish multidimensional proposal

Quotecourse it might not be, but the interesting point is that our sense of linear time might be an illusion
In a static system, it certainly appears to be.

Which... Hmm... I wonder... Say time is a quantised field. What would a static system then look like from the field's perspective? Would it be a zero-energy area? Or just flat as a pancake? Or... Something completely different, because let's face it - a physicist, The Asmo isn't?
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on July 29, 2022, 01:38:38 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on July 29, 2022, 02:27:20 AM^^^
billy rubin, I think you'll like the movie:
Arrival
PG-13.
Sci-fi/Thriller.
1h 56m

 ;)
i will look it up.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on July 29, 2022, 01:43:34 PM
my phone wont allow me to quote, asmo.

no reason why it couldnt be quantised. i dont know jack about quantum mechanics.

one way i view my model is to think of a lit gunpowder fuse, a long cord with a flare of energy- the present- moving along its length. the cord exists before and after the flare.

alongside the fuse are others, packed tightly together, each with a flare moving along its length slightly out of synch with all the others. the result of this is that all present times coexist with each other, even though the model incorporates what we think of as as a past, present, and future.

your idea of a spacetime volume is exactly what i mean. we percieve a local linearity because we inhabit a single strand of the bundle. but the bundle is onfinite in all lateral directions, and infinite before and after, as near as i can figger

i dont actually understand any of this. im just speculating.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 29, 2022, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on July 29, 2022, 01:43:34 PMmy phone wont allow me to quote, asmo.
I can relate. The struggle. It is real. :sadnod:

Quoteno reason why it couldnt be quantised. i dont know jack about quantum mechanics.
I have read a little bit about this, and understood... Less-than-everything, shall we say, and there are some proposals for how time could be quantised.

From what I understand, a quantum of time would be one "below" which, you could not distinguish between any event's past and future.

Quoteone way i view my model is to think of a lit gunpowder fuse, a long cord with a flare of energy- the present- moving along its length. the cord exists before and after the flare.
Hmm... Yes... Hmm...

Does not that model of time itself rely on being viewed within the framework of time? As in, the flare has a past state and a future state, as does the fuse..?

...Let us imagine a point on that fuse being a coordinate of time. If you slice at any point, what you get is the state of the fuse (the "condition" of time, for lack of properly impressive linguistics with which to express this to lessen confusion) - it will yield one of three states; past, present or future.

I don't think you could combine those states in order to model interactions which are not strictly of relative time.

Quotealongside the fuse are others, packed tightly together, each with a flare moving along its length slightly out of synch with all the others. the result of this is that all present times coexist with each other, even though the model incorporates what we think of as as a past, present, and future.
...And herein lies the problem. Let us for the sake of simplicity draw ourselves a few time fuses (Assume infinity in both directions)

<----------M---------->
<--M------------------>
<-------------------M->
<-----^--------------->

The last one here is my time slice. Here, I can easily distinguish 1 and 2 or 2 and 3, but not 1 and 3. They would both return "Past."

As you get into, we'd have to expand the analogy for it to yield meaningful distinction. For example, if each is a spacetime much like ours, our space could be represented as a sausage of Earths, stacked so that each point is just a single planck time length apart from its future self and its past self.

As such, if you make a cut, you do not get any sort of sense of past, present or future - what you do get, is the Earth exactly as it was in that precise instance of time.

I'm not sure I'm being any sort of understandable here - I hope so. To simplify my point, I don't think time necessarily "cares" about past, present or future.

Quoteyour idea of a spacetime volume is exactly what i mean. we percieve a local linearity because we inhabit a single strand of the bundle. but the bundle is onfinite in all lateral directions, and infinite before and after, as near as i can figger

i dont actually understand any of this. im just speculating.
Yes, you should not quote me on any of this too hard either - it's a few decades of study above my pay grade. Still, it's fun to speculate.

I do wonder though if the volume of time as you propose it is like the linear time I tried to explain up above.

The idea I was playing with, was more akin to time itself having something akin to length, height and width, and what that would mean. You would be looking at parallel spacetimes and chronogeometry (Please let that word be uncoined as of yet, so I can claims it for The Asmo!) and I'm totally going to try and speculate on what the implications of that could be.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: No one on July 30, 2022, 01:03:28 AM
Keeping abreast of all that's current, this thread is flowing quite swimmingly.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on July 30, 2022, 02:36:18 AM
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Dark Lightning on July 30, 2022, 03:24:28 AM
Quote from: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 11:48:22 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 06:20:14 PM
Quote from: MagdalenaIt's not round or flat, billy rubin, it's a heptagon.
Heptapods, or
heptadimensional beings will prove this alternative fact one day.
 :smilenod:
--You just wait for it.
...Or we may never know. In that case, their perception of Earth may not be relevant, but would it still be true?

Just imagine time being a coordinate in this. For a being perceiving it from the outside, I suspect the Earth would look kind of like a 4D sausage if seen along the time axis, with every single point on said axis corresponding to a 3D Earth at that precise moment in time.

i dont believe in linear time.

i think time is a series of interdependent instants, each instant requiring the concurrent existence of the instant before and the instant after.

like turtles, all the way down.

the implication of this is that time is multidimensional , a series of side-by-side playing cards, just like the multidimensional nature of the multiverse.

course it might not be, but the interesting point is that our sense of linear time might be an illusion

this is closely related to st thomas aquinas's five ways, arguments for the existence of god. but aquinas was an idiot, and his reasonimg was unsound. if you  apply valid arguments, you end up with time being a valid infinite regress

I'd recommend cracking out the physics books and getting some edumacation, personally.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on July 30, 2022, 09:22:50 AM
(https://y.yarn.co/f1bbcb3e-bb53-414c-874f-6060c617ca59_text.gif)

Static interpretation of time.

QuoteThe static interpretation of time is a view of time which arose in the early years of the 20th century from Albert Einstein's special relativity and Hermann Minkowski's extension of special relativity in which time and space were famously united in physicists' thinking as spacetime.

Essentially the universe is regarded as akin to a reel of film – which is a wholly static physical object – but which when played through a movie projector conjures a world of movement, color, light and change. In the static view our whole universe – our past, present, and future are fixed parts of that reel of film, and the projector is our consciousness. But the 'happenings' of our consciousness have no objective significance – the objective universe does not happen, it simply exists in its entirety, albeit perceived from within as a world of changes.

The alternative, and commonly assumed view, is that the world unfolds in existence, that our present has some wider physical significance, because the universe evolves in step with it.

The static view is the simpler in that all that is held to exist is the physical ordering of the universe. All that there is at every time simply exists. The unfolding view requires an additional quality to the universe – that besides the physical ordering there is some quality of coming into and out of existence.

One can argue that the onus is therefore upon those who propose it, that the world unfolds, and that this additional quality they hold to (absent from special relativity) is indeed a physical feature of the world. There is however as yet no proof, experiment, or measurement, to show that our conscious experience of an unfolding present has any objective physical significance, or that the universe is anything other than static.

The static view is however commonly rejected for psychological, not scientific reasons, because it leads to a fatalistic or "fixed" conclusion about human existence – our 'past', 'present', and 'future' being what they are – there is no contingency in the world and no possibility of 'altering' or creating the future through some act of will – the future exists. It is simply that our consciousness has not yet reached it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_interpretation_of_time
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on July 30, 2022, 02:45:32 PM
Quote from: Dark Lightning on July 30, 2022, 03:24:28 AM
Quote from: billy rubin on July 28, 2022, 11:48:22 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on July 28, 2022, 06:20:14 PM
Quote from: MagdalenaIt's not round or flat, billy rubin, it's a heptagon.
Heptapods, or
heptadimensional beings will prove this alternative fact one day.
 :smilenod:
--You just wait for it.
...Or we may never know. In that case, their perception of Earth may not be relevant, but would it still be true?

Just imagine time being a coordinate in this. For a being perceiving it from the outside, I suspect the Earth would look kind of like a 4D sausage if seen along the time axis, with every single point on said axis corresponding to a 3D Earth at that precise moment in time.

i dont believe in linear time.

i think time is a series of interdependent instants, each instant requiring the concurrent existence of the instant before and the instant after.

like turtles, all the way down.

the implication of this is that time is multidimensional , a series of side-by-side playing cards, just like the multidimensional nature of the multiverse.

course it might not be, but the interesting point is that our sense of linear time might be an illusion

this is closely related to st thomas aquinas's five ways, arguments for the existence of god. but aquinas was an idiot, and his reasonimg was unsound. if you  apply valid arguments, you end up with time being a valid infinite regress

I'd recommend cracking out the physics books and getting some edumacation, personally.

lol

the day my physics professor explained that electrons had no locations but existed merely as solutions to a probability function  was the day i realized that physics and philosophy wete two words for the same thing.

nothing ivevread from stephen hawking contradicts that so far.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Old Seer on July 30, 2022, 02:57:07 PM
Time is the/an interval between events. (measured by increments of the suns position at certain locations relative to the earths surface)
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on July 30, 2022, 04:18:04 PM
It's not though.

A particle decaying in Andromeda has nothing to do with the Sun. However, it is within the framework of time.

So, not an interval between events (around the Sun) - a descriptor of meaningful change. When something dynamic can be, relative to something else, then we have time.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: No one on July 30, 2022, 10:26:00 PM
Time, it just keeps on ticking. You can run, just don't miss that starting gun. You'll never catch that sinking sun, that races to come up behind you again, and again. Closer to your death, with each and every breath.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Bluenose on July 31, 2022, 01:21:36 PM
Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to nought or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on August 01, 2022, 02:30:47 PM
Quote from: Bluenose on July 31, 2022, 01:21:36 PMEvery year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to nought or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say
When you are ten, a year is one tenth of your life. When you are fifty - one fiftieth. The years may still be the same, but your perception of them in relation to yourself is probably not... Especially if you have kids, I guess. You watch them grow "in a blink of an eye," yet for them... Past certain age, the future can't come fast enough.

The Asmo wanders off, muttering something melancholy
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Tank on August 06, 2022, 12:40:40 PM
Interesting referendum result.

Kansas votes to preserve abortion rights in first post-Roe v. Wade election test (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/abortion-rights-face-voter-test-kansas-after-roe-v-wade-reversal-2022-08-02/)

"Aug 2 (Reuters) - Kansas voters on Tuesday rejected an effort to remove abortion protections from the state's constitution, a resounding win for the abortion rights movement in the first statewide electoral test since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

The amendment's failure in the conservative state lifted Democrats' hopes that the issue of abortion rights will draw voters to the party in November's midterm elections even as they worry about surging inflation."
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Icarus on August 07, 2022, 02:20:33 AM
Indiana legislators ignored the tidal wave of dissent in Kansas.  The Hoosier wizards voted to reduce the availability of abortions in Indiana. Christian Nationalism on display.

The attitude of the citizens of Indiana is almost surely similar to the ones in Kansas. That is clearly; A woman gets to decide, not some damned politician.  Are these legislators trying to eliminate themselves from office?
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on August 07, 2022, 09:11:40 AM
Quote from: Icarus on August 07, 2022, 02:20:33 AMAre these legislators trying to eliminate themselves from office?
Let them.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Icarus on August 08, 2022, 02:22:43 AM
^ Not only shall we let them, but we can also encourage them to "Take a hike" Preferably on a long walk on a short pier.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Bluenose on August 08, 2022, 05:27:11 AM
Quote from: Icarus on August 07, 2022, 02:20:33 AMAre these legislators trying to eliminate themselves from office?

With any luck they will succeed.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on August 08, 2022, 07:03:05 AM
Quote from: Icarus on August 08, 2022, 02:22:43 AM^ Not only shall we let them, but we can also encourage them to "Take a hike" Preferably on a long walk on a short pier.
Wishing death on your political opposition. How very revolutionary of you.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 08, 2022, 04:20:55 PM
It is a shame that the battle of wits between right and left has deteriorated to personalities and the volume of the offerings, instead of issues.

I used to enjoy American politics, for guidance of thought.

Now it is just noise without worth.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 08, 2022, 04:26:25 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on August 08, 2022, 07:03:05 AM
Quote from: Icarus on August 08, 2022, 02:22:43 AM^ Not only shall we let them, but we can also encourage them to "Take a hike" Preferably on a long walk on a short pier.
Wishing death on your political opposition. How very revolutionary of you.

In politics, ideas are to be killed by the intelligentsia of both sides, then go toast the solutions at the bars.

That was the American better way.

Now, it seems that both sides have forgotten how to act, and try to twist the knife after a tap out.

Americans hate each other.

I can see why.

Get the old American attitudes back.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: No one on August 08, 2022, 05:57:07 PM
I just wish death on everyone, and everything.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on August 08, 2022, 09:26:01 PM
You can't kill an idea, Bishop.

At least, nobody managed to thus far, to the best of my knowledge. There is a reason why we constantly revisit Communism and Fascism alike, and no matter the weight of the arguments against, they still manage to find purchase.

Eradicate an idea, and it will get thought anew. Suppress it and it will go into those dark places where it can fester and continue spreading regardless.

I disagree that politics is about killing ideas - it's about the end goals and the many roads to them.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 08, 2022, 10:19:31 PM
Asmodean

I do not want to or suggest killing ideas.

The reason we like fascism, is that the majority of us claim an affiliation to a fascist regime.

All the God religions are fascist by nature, including Christianity and Islam.

They put God above man when their genocidal prick belongs in hell and well below man, if morals are at issue.

Regards
DL

Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on August 09, 2022, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 08, 2022, 10:19:31 PMThe reason we like fascism, is that the majority of us claim an affiliation to a fascist regime.
The reason I don't like Fascism is that it is a collectivist ideology. All for the state and "nothing" above or beyond the state. Does my reason for disliking it have any bearing on whether or not someone will think up (or remember, or carry on) Fascism any more than your reason for liking it?

QuoteAll the God religions are fascist by nature, including Christianity and Islam.
I don't know about "all," but Christianity and Islam certainly share some ideology with Fascism - or it with them.

QuoteThey put God above man when their genocidal prick belongs in hell and well below man, if morals are at issue.
...And Fascists put their state/race/doctrine/whatever other common crap they may agree on above themselves - and each other. I wonder if it may be an expression of the pack tendency to "need" an alpha to follow, be that alpha an individual with exceptionally long canines, or an idea
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on August 14, 2022, 09:05:19 PM
well, the precautionary changes are coming down. my wife and i are advising our two daughters not to share their menstrual history online or with a physician. facebook has already provided private DMs under subpoena to law enforcement, resulting in people being prosecuted for reproductive crimes.

menstrual information, as " . . . when was your last period?" used to be innocent and private, but can now be legally weaponized. even a well-meaning doctor might not know what records the hospital staff are releasing to law enforcement. we're telling them that the correct answer is just to say, "my periods are regualar."

interesting times, for sure.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Old Seer on August 15, 2022, 02:40:25 PM
According to Mussolini, Fascism is the merging of corporate power and government.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on August 16, 2022, 07:36:47 AM
Yeah, pretty much. Corporate would be OK in a Fascist society, as long as it served the state. So Fascism is not Cyberpunk corporatism - the "merger" goes the other way.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on August 19, 2022, 05:16:14 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/republican-lawmaker-just-now-realized-abortion-ban-he-voted-for-has-real-life-consequences/ar-AA10MmSl?cvid=5aaa9184959e487996dc580bbc417c3f

QuoteARepublican in the South Carolina state House of Representatives fought back tears this week as he talked about the dangerous ramifications of the state's abortion ban—which he himself voted for.

Collins fought back tears speaking from the statehouse floor this week, describing the emotional and physical torture he and his colleagues recently inflicted on a 19-year-old woman.

In just the second week after this six-week ban took effect, Collins says a doctor called him and told him about the woman, whose water broke after 15 weeks of pregnancy—far before the point of viability where the fetus could survive outside the womb but long after the six-week cutoff to receive an emergency abortion.

Because the fetus had a heartbeat, lawyers advised the woman's doctors that they could not perform an abortion to remove it, even though that is the standard and absolutely necessary medical procedure. The only options were to discharge her or to admit her to the hospital and wait for the heartbeat to stop on its own—something the doctor told him could take anywhere from seconds to happen to days. That's a completely unnecessary, physically and emotionally harrowing experience, not to mention likely financially draining seeing as this woman lives in a country where healthcare is prohibitively expensive.

The doctors sent the woman home. Collins explained what she was left to go through: "First, she's going to pass this fetus in the toilet. She's going to have to deal with that on her own." Then, he says he was told, "There's a greater than 50 percent chance that she's going to lose her uterus; there's a 10 percent chance that she will develop sepsis and herself die."

"That weighs on me. I voted for that bill. These are affecting people," Collins said, adding that he did not sleep the entire week he heard this story.

people like ^^^this disgust me. so he lost sleep for a whole week? missed his saturday at the beach condo, maybe?

he did nothing to assist the woman he harmed. it was all about him and his self-pity. the important part:

"She's going to have to deal with that on her own."

she was 19 years old and returned two weeks later to have the corpse removed from her body.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Tank on August 19, 2022, 05:46:08 PM
Speechless.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Icarus on August 20, 2022, 12:49:13 AM
Oh, but punishing that young woman for her iniquities is our duty as good Christians (dumb fuck kooks are a more appropriate description in my disturbed mind).

Let us sing: Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before, Christ the royal master............etc.

Perhaps, we may be advised by our Heavenly maker, burn the witch.

GOP crackpots who make cruel rules should burn in their own imaginary hell...









Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on August 21, 2022, 06:29:38 PM
. . . and another

Woman Forced To Travel From Louisiana To Abort Fetus Missing Skull
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nancy-davis-louisiana-abortion-acrania_n_63019100e4b0f7df9bb101dc


QuoteA pregnant 0Louisiana woman will be forced to travel to another state to abort her fetus, which is missing part of its skull and would die soon after birth, according to the woman's attorney.

Because the fetus' condition — 0acrania — is 0not specifically named in the state law as an exception to Louisiana's abortion ban, Nancy Davis, 36, will travel several states away where she can obtain an abortion.

"There's nothing I wanted more than this child," she told 0told The New York Times.

But she also explained to 0CBS affiliate WAFB in Baton Rouge that it was excruciating to think that she was "carrying it to bury it."(/quote]
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Anne D. on August 22, 2022, 01:16:44 AM
Quote from: Tank on August 06, 2022, 12:40:40 PMInteresting referendum result.

Kansas votes to preserve abortion rights in first post-Roe v. Wade election test (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/abortion-rights-face-voter-test-kansas-after-roe-v-wade-reversal-2022-08-02/)

"Aug 2 (Reuters) - Kansas voters on Tuesday rejected an effort to remove abortion protections from the state's constitution, a resounding win for the abortion rights movement in the first statewide electoral test since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

The amendment's failure in the conservative state lifted Democrats' hopes that the issue of abortion rights will draw voters to the party in November's midterm elections even as they worry about surging inflation."

If it were put to a referendum in just about every state in the union, I think the results would be about the same. Polls show the majority of Americans are decidedly pro-choice. The issue won't be put to a referendum in most states, though; it will be decided by laws passed or kept in place by state legislatures. In many states, the voting districts are so gerrymandered that it's literally impossible for a non-far-right candidate to be be elected in the majority of districts (see, e.g., Wisconsin, Ohio, Texas).
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on August 22, 2022, 03:25:09 AM
my ohio disyrict is a 7 hour drive from north to south

about 30 minutes east to west
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 23, 2022, 08:54:16 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on August 09, 2022, 01:35:26 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 08, 2022, 10:19:31 PMThe reason we like fascism, is that the majority of us claim an affiliation to a fascist regime.
The reason I don't like Fascism is that it is a collectivist ideology. All for the state and "nothing" above or beyond the state. Does my reason for disliking it have any bearing on whether or not someone will think up (or remember, or carry on) Fascism any more than your reason for liking it?

QuoteAll the God religions are fascist by nature, including Christianity and Islam.
I don't know about "all," but Christianity and Islam certainly share some ideology with Fascism - or it with them.

QuoteThey put God above man when their genocidal prick belongs in hell and well below man, if morals are at issue.
...And Fascists put their state/race/doctrine/whatever other common crap they may agree on above themselves - and each other. I wonder if it may be an expression of the pack tendency to "need" an alpha to follow, be that alpha an individual with exceptionally long canines, or an idea

Fascism is just another ism that is synonymous with tribal people.

We are all isms as we are all tribal.

Our tribal natures stem from our selfish gene and instinct that has us seek fellowship, for protection.

We all naturally seek an alpha to emulate, so that later we can replace him or her as the fittest.

We are all born thinking we are the fittest of our line, and want to show it, as it is a logically truth to all new life.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on August 23, 2022, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 23, 2022, 08:54:16 PMFascism is just another ism that is synonymous with tribal people.

We are all isms as we are all tribal.

Our tribal natures stem from our selfish gene and instinct that has us seek fellowship, for protection.

We all naturally seek an alpha to emulate, so that later we can replace him or her as the fittest.

We are all born thinking we are the fittest of our line, and want to show it, as it is a logically truth to all new life.

Regards
DL


i disagree, greatest.

i think that you certainly are describing the reflexive behaviour of people who follow their animal natures, but we are not bound to follow it.

i dont look for alphas to emulate, for example. instead, i seek out places and communities that allow me to avoid just those leadership-focused societies.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on August 24, 2022, 08:13:14 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 23, 2022, 08:54:16 PMFascism is just another ism that is synonymous with tribal people.
No. Fascism is not synonymous with tribalism. As any mass movement, however, it is a subset thereof.

Fascism is an ideology that puts the state at its centre - where everything is the state's business and nothing is above the state.

QuoteWe are all isms as we are all tribal.
"No man is an island" is a generalised saying. Some people are. (I disagree with the scope of your statement here, rather than its content)

QuoteOur tribal natures stem from our selfish gene and instinct that has us seek fellowship, for protection.
Propagation more so than protection.

QuoteWe all naturally seek an alpha to emulate, so that later we can replace him or her as the fittest.
No. Alphas do not.

QuoteWe are all born thinking we are the fittest of our line, and want to show it, as it is a logically truth to all new life.
We learn and create our worth. We are not born thinking much at all - in the beginning, in our own reference, we just are.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on August 23, 2022, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 23, 2022, 08:54:16 PMFascism is just another ism that is synonymous with tribal people.

We are all isms as we are all tribal.

Our tribal natures stem from our selfish gene and instinct that has us seek fellowship, for protection.

We all naturally seek an alpha to emulate, so that later we can replace him or her as the fittest.

We are all born thinking we are the fittest of our line, and want to show it, as it is a logically truth to all new life.

Regards
DL


i disagree, greatest.

i think that you certainly are describing the reflexive behaviour of people who follow their animal natures, but we are not bound to follow it.

i dont look for alphas to emulate, for example. instead, i seek out places and communities that allow me to avoid just those leadership-focused societies.

Strange that you would wish to emulate less than the best.

To each his own I guess.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:03:19 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on August 24, 2022, 08:13:14 AMwe just are.

Hardly something I would name a complicated genetic code that we have yet to crack.

If a more fit Alpha does not replace a less fit Alpha, what happens to the tribe?

Regards
DL 
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:09:32 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on August 23, 2022, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 23, 2022, 08:54:16 PMFascism is just another ism that is synonymous with tribal people.

We are all isms as we are all tribal.

Our tribal natures stem from our selfish gene and instinct that has us seek fellowship, for protection.

We all naturally seek an alpha to emulate, so that later we can replace him or her as the fittest.

We are all born thinking we are the fittest of our line, and want to show it, as it is a logically truth to all new life.

Regards
DL


i disagree, greatest.

i think that you certainly are describing the reflexive behaviour of people who follow their animal natures, but we are not bound to follow it.

i dont look for alphas to emulate, for example. instead, i seek out places and communities that allow me to avoid just those leadership-focused societies.

Strange that you would wish to emulate less than the best.

To each his own I guess.

Regards
DL

(https://c.tenor.com/J65S_jEeVGsAAAAC/bullshit-will-smith.gif)

Please.
Continue.


Regards
M-F.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on August 24, 2022, 08:13:14 AMFascism is an ideology that puts the state at its centre - where everything is the state's business and nothing is above the state.

Hmm.

Hitler and Trump were very concerned with people being loyal to them and not the state.

A fascist political ideology and movement is characterized by a dictatorial leader and centralized autocracy.

The dictator rules, not the State.

The dictator is the state.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:09:32 PMContinue.

No need, given your poor communication ability.

I offer my sympathy.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:09:32 PMContinue.

No need, given your poor communication ability.

I offer my sympathy.

Regards
DL

Did I touch a nerve?
 ;D

Regards
M-F
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:20:40 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:09:32 PMContinue.

No need, given your poor communication ability.

I offer my sympathy.

Regards
DL

Did I touch a nerve?
 ;D

Regards
M-F

No stupid, given your poor communication ability.

Now fuck off.

I am done with you.

Regards
DL
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Recusant on September 14, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:20:40 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:09:32 PMContinue.

No need, given your poor communication ability.

I offer my sympathy.

Regards
DL

Did I touch a nerve?
 ;D

Regards
M-F

No stupid, given your poor communication ability.

Now fuck off.

I am done with you.

Regards
DL

Done. You rarely stop by, and have already been warned. Have six months, and please do not return.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:48:12 PM
Quote from: Recusant on September 14, 2022, 09:25:48 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:20:40 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:13:14 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:09:32 PMContinue.

No need, given your poor communication ability.

I offer my sympathy.

Regards
DL

Did I touch a nerve?
 ;D

Regards
M-F

No stupid, given your poor communication ability.

Now fuck off.

I am done with you.

Regards
DL

Done. You rarely stop by, and have already been warned. Have six months, and please do not return.

(https://c.tenor.com/b1pL8PPaFKYAAAAC/ace-ventura-pet-detective-ace-ventura.gif)

(https://c.tenor.com/npYxo_-iPJ0AAAAC/poltergeist-this-house-is-clean.gif)


Regards,

Møther-Flower
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 14, 2022, 09:53:58 PM
Quote from: Recusant on September 14, 2022, 09:25:48 PMDone. You rarely stop by, and have already been warned. Have six months, and please do not return.

Recusant,
(https://c.tenor.com/VG2Iu1MREVUAAAAC/thorin-hobbit.gif)
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Recusant on September 14, 2022, 10:00:33 PM
Just a place-holder. He asked for quick action. Staff discussion may revise, very likely upward.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on September 14, 2022, 10:10:46 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on August 23, 2022, 10:08:30 PM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on August 23, 2022, 08:54:16 PMFascism is just another ism that is synonymous with tribal people.

We are all isms as we are all tribal.

Our tribal natures stem from our selfish gene and instinct that has us seek fellowship, for protection.

We all naturally seek an alpha to emulate, so that later we can replace him or her as the fittest.

We are all born thinking we are the fittest of our line, and want to show it, as it is a logically truth to all new life.

Regards
DL


i disagree, greatest.

i think that you certainly are describing the reflexive behaviour of people who follow their animal natures, but we are not bound to follow it.

i dont look for alphas to emulate, for example. instead, i seek out places and communities that allow me to avoid just those leadership-focused societies.

Strange that you would wish to emulate less than the best.

To each his own I guess.

Regards
DL


you make assumptions that i dont consider valid, dl. being an "alpha" in no way assures that you are "best" at anything except being alpha.

lots of alphas get to their positions absent relevant skills, but have abilities in dominance, backstabbing, misrepresentation, and bullying.

when i percieve someone using those skills in human relationships, i dont follow them, and dont seek to take their place. if you do  you are rewarding something other than the relevant skills.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on September 14, 2022, 10:52:19 PM
oh

i guess im behind the times

carry on
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on September 15, 2022, 07:26:57 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on September 14, 2022, 09:03:19 PMHardly something I would name a complicated genetic code that we have yet to crack.
Calling genes a code is putting the cart before the horse. That said, what is it you are looking to "crack" exactly? We have a very decent understanding of human genome.

QuoteIf a more fit Alpha does not replace a less fit Alpha, what happens to the tribe?
Keeps on going with a lame alpha.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 07:48:42 AM
Quote from: Recusant on September 14, 2022, 10:00:33 PMJust a place-holder. He asked for quick action. Staff discussion may revise, very likely upward.

He seems to hate me. I don't know why. I've never been disrespectful to him or given him a reason to hate me. Yet.
—But NOW I feel like  giving him a real reason to hate me:

He probably suffers from Lepidopterophobia or Mottephobia or Gynophobia.

Or he's just an asshole, I mean, an alpha...wannabe.

—He did say, "We naturally seek an alpha to emulate."
Maybe he thinks kissing an alpha's ass makes him an alpha by association, or he's fine with being just an imitation of an alpha...or needs to be around one for protection from a Butterfly of Doom.   ;D 

He seems like a mean, disrespectful, angry person. I hate to say this, but people like him usually die alone.

And why does he say, "Regards" or "best wishes" after he calls me, stupid and tells me to fuck off? Is this a Christian/Bishop/Gnostic thing?
(https://c.tenor.com/uNEslz_MRvgAAAAC/jesus-christ.gif)
—What the hell!?  :???:
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on September 15, 2022, 10:18:11 AM
wiggle your fingertips and let the bad energy run off and return to irs source
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on September 15, 2022, 10:23:33 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 07:48:42 AM—He did say, "We naturally seek an alpha to emulate."
Yeah, I found that kind-of strange... But also possibly telling.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Bluenose on September 15, 2022, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Recusant on September 14, 2022, 10:00:33 PMJust a place-holder. He asked for quick action. Staff discussion may revise, very likely upward.

I know I'm not staff here, but if I was in a position to express an opinion, it would be that GCB has earned a permanent holiday from this forum for being more than a little bit rude and disrespectful to one of our nicest members.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on September 15, 2022, 12:14:53 PM
Some people just can't ever learn how to The Asmo properly.

There are ways of being blunt and controversial to the point of rudeness and beyond even, and of wearing one's unpopular opinions like precious jewelry on occasion, while contributing to healthy discussion. As per The Gray Tome, the commandments are;

- It's good to be wrong sometimes... Or so The Asmo has been told. It's equally healthy to just not know.
- Ideas are fair game. People supporting or opposing them are not.
- Facts don't care about feelings, nor do opinions. However, people do care about feelings - in emotional ways. Expect it. Don't abuse it. (As in, if you claim to talk about facts, then don't try to stir up an emotional response - though I'd say don't specifically avoid it either.)
- If your opponent has resorted to using the word "you," directly or otherwise, in every second sentence while your argument is yet incomplete, they are likely suffering from two points down. Know when to hold them.
- If the opposing side has measurably better arguments, or your stated position is one from personal preference while theirs is demonstrable and/or measurable, know when to fold them.
- If you've run out of arguments but your position is still under siege - know when to walk away.
- If real, identifiable people's real lives and livelihoods become ammunition in some Internet drama, know when to run.

I also subscribe to precise wording whenever it matters and I can comply. When not, the associated Asmoic commandment would be something like; when misunderstood, explain. Again and again, and as well as you can.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 04:00:04 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on September 15, 2022, 10:18:11 AMwiggle your fingertips and let the bad energy run off and return to irs source

Yes.
It is time to burn some god damn serious amount of sage...or something.

(https://c.tenor.com/agxoovAKpAgAAAAC/sage-burning.gif)
 ;D
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 04:02:43 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on September 15, 2022, 10:23:33 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 07:48:42 AM—He did say, "We naturally seek an alpha to emulate."
Yeah, I found that kind-of strange... But also possibly telling.

True.
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he's an Andrew Tate fan.
:reading:

("Influencer" He got banned from Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok already for misogyny and other things).
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 04:08:16 PM
Quote from: Bluenose on September 15, 2022, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Recusant on September 14, 2022, 10:00:33 PMJust a place-holder. He asked for quick action. Staff discussion may revise, very likely upward.

I know I'm not staff here, but if I was in a position to express an opinion, it would be that GCB has earned a permanent holiday from this forum for being more than a little bit rude and disrespectful to one of our nicest members.

Thanks, Bluenose, that's nice of you to say, but I don't consider myself the nicest member here. There are others who are a lot nicer than me.

It's true, he was more than a little bit rude and disrespectful to me, but what bothered me the most was the rude, disrespectful and condescending way he spoke to billy rubin after he said he didn't seek an alpha to emulate.

He walked in here kicking chairs and knocking down tables, chest-thumping... Looked around and found the most ferocious one to attack —a butterfly.

Very alpha of him. ;D
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 04:09:39 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on September 15, 2022, 12:14:53 PMSome people just can't ever learn how to The Asmo properly.

There are ways of being blunt and controversial to the point of rudeness and beyond even, and of wearing one's unpopular opinions like precious jewelry on occasion, while contributing to healthy discussion. As per The Gray Tome, the commandments are;

- It's good to be wrong sometimes... Or so The Asmo has been told. It's equally healthy to just not know.
- Ideas are fair game. People supporting or opposing them are not.
- Facts don't care about feelings, nor do opinions. However, people do care about feelings - in emotional ways. Expect it. Don't abuse it. (As in, if you claim to talk about facts, then don't try to stir up an emotional response - though I'd say don't specifically avoid it either.)
- If your opponent has resorted to using the word "you," directly or otherwise, in every second sentence while your argument is yet incomplete, they are likely suffering from two points down. Know when to hold them.
- If the opposing side has measurably better arguments, or your stated position is one from personal preference while theirs is demonstrable and/or measurable, know when to fold them.
- If you've run out of arguments but your position is still under siege - know when to walk away.
- If real, identifiable people's real lives and livelihoods become ammunition in some Internet drama, know when to run.

I also subscribe to precise wording whenever it matters and I can comply. When not, the associated Asmoic commandment would be something like; when misunderstood, explain. Again and again, and as well as you can.

:notes:
Got it.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on September 15, 2022, 06:37:45 PM
Being able to The Asmo at need is a useful skill. :smilenod:
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on September 15, 2022, 09:28:57 PM
I think he is keeping score somewhere, how many times he gets banned. Strange communication style.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: billy rubin on September 16, 2022, 12:13:33 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 04:08:16 PMit rude and disrespectful to me, but what bothered me the most was the rude, disrespectful and condescending way he spoke to billy rubin after he said he didn't seek an alpha to emulate.


lol

magdalena, i have a skin thicker than a spotted hyenas, when its appropriate.

to be insulted by someone, you first have to respect tbeir opinion of you. im sufficiently arrogant not to be bothered.

even so it appears that dl's self immolation was purposeful. i imagine hes running out of venues by this time tho
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Icarus on September 16, 2022, 03:52:49 AM
Relax Mags. You are far and away ahead of the game here. You may sometimes succumb to an emotional state but one of the things that you are definitely not, is stupid.

As far as I am concerned, your accuser can go fuck himself!

Apologies for the outburst, Recusant and other administrators,...Can't help it. Mags is my virtual sister.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 16, 2022, 06:27:49 AM
Quote from: billy rubin on September 16, 2022, 12:13:33 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on September 15, 2022, 04:08:16 PMit rude and disrespectful to me, but what bothered me the most was the rude, disrespectful and condescending way he spoke to billy rubin after he said he didn't seek an alpha to emulate.


lol

magdalena, I have a skin thicker than a spotted hyenas, when it's appropriate.

to be insulted by someone, you first have to respect tbeir opinion of you. im sufficiently arrogant not to be bothered.

even so it appears that dl's self immolation was purposeful. I imagine he's running out of venues by this time tho


I'm glad I made you laugh. ;D

When I said, "There are others who are a lot nicer than me." I was referring to you. I know that someone who has skin thicker than a spotted hyena, such as yourself,  doesn't need to be defended, especially by a butterfly. ;)

I agree with you, "To be insulted by someone, you first have to respect tbeir opinion of you." No one here was offended. He's not worth it. I just don't like his "style" and I had to say it.

Besides, sad but true, I enjoy lighting a short fuse.
—It's fun to light it and watch it explode in seconds.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/c56c3f57f3dea137d729274397f29700/tenor.gif)
~Evil, I know.
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Magdalena on September 16, 2022, 06:46:57 AM
Quote from: Icarus on September 16, 2022, 03:52:49 AMRelax Mags. You are far and away ahead of the game here. You may sometimes succumb to an emotional state but one of the things that you are definitely not, is stupid.

As far as I am concerned, your accuser can go fuck himself!

Apologies for the outburst, Recusant and other administrators,...Can't help it. Mags is my virtual sister.


Thank you, Icarus.

According to him, I'm not just stupid, I also have poor communication skills.  :reading:
—Man! Talk about The Wrong Stuff!

I'm surprised he didn't say, "...You're ugly. And your momma dresses you funny." As well.
 ::)

Let it go, Mags...Let it go... :levitate:

Live long and prosper, my virtual brother.
 :spock:
Title: Re: RIP Roe v. Wade
Post by: Asmodean on September 16, 2022, 11:30:37 AM
Quote from: billy rubin on September 16, 2022, 12:13:33 AMim sufficiently arrogant not to be bothered.
What a glorious way of putting it! The Asmo claims it for The Asmo's future needs in talking about The Asmo - the chiefest among The Asmo's favourite subjects.  ;D