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Internet Piracy/Sharing: Your Thoughts?

Started by LegendarySandwich, January 02, 2011, 11:10:21 PM

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TheWilliam

I'm on the fence for just one reason.

I love underground mid 90s hip hop and most........ well all of those albums have been out of print since they were released. and I already paid for all the stuff I had to download but my first apt got robbed,

and i could either download them for free.

or go on ebay and pay an average of 50 dollars an album.

Ultima22689

Sorry Whitney, I didn't mean to insinuate that you did. All i'm saying is, copyrights don't have much utility on the internet, many people pirate in the first place because they can't afford or are not interested enough in the content to warrant a purchase. If there is no profit to be made in the first place then what is the problem? Government tries to regulate the internet because big lobbies tell them to. Just like how big business keeps raping net neutraility. When the internet is under the censorship we will have handicapped a font of information that is supposed to change the world. The internet is far from done growing, If it is stifled then we will suffer.

Whitney

theoretical situation:

I'm an artist.  I create original works but since I'm not famous I can only sell a large original canvas for about $300.  However it takes me a week to complete a painting so $300 just isn't enough.  However, if I sell digital prints online I can make enough to cover my bills.  Someone who notices the high quality of my work starts buying my digital prints, scans them into CafePress and starts making a lot of money off my work.  While this is illegal if he were selling them on a street corner there is nothing I can do because the government decided digital information can't be protected under my copyright.  Now I have to go work at walmart and no longer have time to produce artwork.

Ultima22689

Quote from: "Whitney"theoretical situation:

I'm an artist.  I create original works but since I'm not famous I can only sell a large original canvas for about $300.  However it takes me a week to complete a painting so $300 just isn't enough.  However, if I sell digital prints online I can make enough to cover my bills.  Someone who notices the high quality of my work starts buying my digital prints, scans them into CafePress and starts making a lot of money off my work.  While this is illegal if he were selling them on a street corner there is nothing I can do because the government decided digital information can't be protected under my copyright.  Now I have to go work at walmart and no longer have time to produce artwork.


I said the big difference with the internet is making a profit, as long as no profit is being made the internet should be censor free. Someone is making  a profit off your work, nothing is stopping you from copyrighting your painting from being sold by some guy on the street.

LegendarySandwich

Quote from: "Whitney"theoretical situation:

I'm an artist.  I create original works but since I'm not famous I can only sell a large original canvas for about $300.  However it takes me a week to complete a painting so $300 just isn't enough.  However, if I sell digital prints online I can make enough to cover my bills.  Someone who notices the high quality of my work starts buying my digital prints, scans them into CafePress and starts making a lot of money off my work.  While this is illegal if he were selling them on a street corner there is nothing I can do because the government decided digital information can't be protected under my copyright.  Now I have to go work at walmart and no longer have time to produce artwork.
Damn.

LegendarySandwich

Quote from: "Whitney"theoretical situation:

I'm an artist.  I create original works but since I'm not famous I can only sell a large original canvas for about $300.  However it takes me a week to complete a painting so $300 just isn't enough.  However, if I sell digital prints online I can make enough to cover my bills.  Someone who notices the high quality of my work starts buying my digital prints, scans them into CafePress and starts making a lot of money off my work.  While this is illegal if he were selling them on a street corner there is nothing I can do because the government decided digital information can't be protected under my copyright.  Now I have to go work at walmart and no longer have time to produce artwork.
Maybe you could sell your art with a company that can prevent that from happening.

The Magic Pudding

Quote from: "terranus"The reason internet sharing is mostly considered "wrong" and illegal is because sharing violates core principles of greedy capitalism. In a true Communist state, internet sharing would never be challenged as an illegal or immoral practice. It wouldn't even be a controversial issue at all. Why do you think internet "piracy" is so much higher in countries like China?

It's more likely they do it because it's not in their interests to do otherwise, not yet anyway.  Dickens fought to have a reluctant USA recognise his intellectual property.  Times change and the USA will now have copyright issues at the top of any international trade agreement.

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"Wrong. It is something like we have never had before. It allows everyone to communicate with everyone else, no matter where they are, and share information. Restricting this flow of information is bad.

Well maybe, but as Whitney suggests if creators don't get paid they may not create, that would be bad.
It is a difficult problem and it's easy to say content creators should find a new model.
Maybe it's possible to create a model where legitimate providers compete against marginalised illegal competition, but if legal sanctions are removed this seems unlikely.  It's hard to compete with a competitor who doesn't pay for their inputs.
You could fill movies with more product placements, like a big commercial.

There are some things done to protect intellectual property I don't understand:
 
    Annoying messages at the beginning of legally obtained DVDs
    Legal games require the DVD to play, well I understand but it is annoying.
    I can't access Amazon mp3 downloads, it's a regional thing, I can use Itunes, but I don't.  Itunes is enough to drive anyone to piracy.

Heretical Rants

I´m considering a career as an author. Internet piracy could end up being a real threat to my livelihood.

Whitney

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"
Quote from: "Whitney"theoretical situation:

I'm an artist.  I create original works but since I'm not famous I can only sell a large original canvas for about $300.  However it takes me a week to complete a painting so $300 just isn't enough.  However, if I sell digital prints online I can make enough to cover my bills.  Someone who notices the high quality of my work starts buying my digital prints, scans them into CafePress and starts making a lot of money off my work.  While this is illegal if he were selling them on a street corner there is nothing I can do because the government decided digital information can't be protected under my copyright.  Now I have to go work at walmart and no longer have time to produce artwork.
Maybe you could sell your art with a company that can prevent that from happening.

The situation I described could happen even if I was selling using the most possibly secure site for selling art.  Some guy buys one copy so that he can scan it in; the only way to prevent that from happening would be the ability to tell the individual and CafePress to cease and desist immediately or face charges (something which the artist could not do if copyright laws were discontinued or didn't apply to digital work on the internet).

LegendarySandwich

I see your point, Whitney. Maybe current copyright laws shouldn't be eliminated completely but revised; make it illegal to profit off of other individuals' works of art, without their explicit permission.

Asmodean

I dislike piracy for a few reasons. Sharing what you have the right to share is not a problem though...

But then again, it's a personal thing, so I don't care a bit whether or not the "pirates" get away with it.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

LegendarySandwich

Quote from: "Asmodean"Sharing what you have the right to share is not a problem though...
Who gets to say what you have the right to share? If the publisher of a CD says I can't share if with anyone else, does that mean I don't have a right to lend it to my friend for a few days?

Asmodean

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"Who gets to say what you have the right to share?
The publisher is usually about right. Basically, the owner of distribution rights to something gets to dictate how it is to be distributed and where.

QuoteIf the publisher of a CD says I can't share if with anyone else, does that mean I don't have a right to lend it to my friend for a few days?
You can lend that CD to your friend. What you can not do, however, is make a copy and give or sell it to him. You can also gift or sell the original to him provided you destroy or include the backup disk if you have created such.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

LegendarySandwich

Quote from: "Asmodean"
Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"Who gets to say what you have the right to share?
The publisher is usually about right. Basically, the owner of distribution rights to something gets to dictate how it is to be distributed and where.

QuoteIf the publisher of a CD says I can't share if with anyone else, does that mean I don't have a right to lend it to my friend for a few days?
You can lend that CD to your friend. What you can not do, however, is make a copy and give or sell it to him. You can also gift or sell the original to him provided you destroy or include the backup disk if you have created such.
I don't think that's fair. I bought it; I get to decide what to do with it.

Whitney

Quote from: "LegendarySandwich"I don't think that's fair. I bought it; I get to decide what to do with it.

It's much the same as if you buy a mp3 song online; you only purchased the right to personal use.  If they had intended to sell you the rights to sell the music the cost associated with purchase would be much higher.