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atheist morality

Started by homer, March 01, 2011, 04:32:23 PM

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homer

I'm curious...for the atheists on the board...where do you find a basis for morality and ethics?  Is it philosophy, society, government, autonomous self, etc.?  Thoughts?

Whitney

homer, this topic always sparks debate when asked by a theist.  I've moved it to the philosophy/ethics section of the forum where you are welcome to watch the responses.

Davin

Quote from: "homer"I'm curious...for the atheists on the board...where do you find a basis for morality and ethics?  Is it philosophy, society, government, autonomous self, etc.?
Yes, the very same places theists get their basis for morality.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Tank

Quote from: "Davin"
Quote from: "homer"I'm curious...for the atheists on the board...where do you find a basis for morality and ethics?  Is it philosophy, society, government, autonomous self, etc.?
Yes, the very same places theists get their basis for morality.
Minus the influences of institutionalised superstition.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: "Tank"
Quote from: "Davin"
Quote from: "homer"I'm curious...for the atheists on the board...where do you find a basis for morality and ethics?  Is it philosophy, society, government, autonomous self, etc.?
Yes, the very same places theists get their basis for morality.
Minus the influences of institutionalised superstition.
Because "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Honor your father and mother...", "Do not murder", "Do not steal" ...these are superstitious ideas.

Asmodean

Basic social contract... Hive mentality...

Honestly, who cares where someone's morality is derived from?! As long as it works, it works.  :|
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: "Asmodean"Basic social contract... Hive mentality...

Honestly, who cares where someone's morality is derived from?! As long as it works, it works.  :|
I agree, Asmodean.  But some, as evidenced above, seem to think ANYTHING from a different source is rubbish.

Asmodean

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"Because "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Honor your father and mother...", "Do not murder", "Do not steal" ...these are superstitious ideas.
Oh, I DO like examining those..!  :raised:

"Do not steal" ...Unless looting spoils of war or doing it to help the poor, I suppose?

Those rules are, in themselves, not supersticious ideas. However, the setting in which they are presented and the enforcing authority provided... Those are supersticious ideas. They are also full of holes, many of them are, holes which are exploitable in some cases and you can not be blamed for exploiting a hole in a rule, now can you? And then there is the new vs. the old, but I'm not starting a debate on that  :P

As I strongly implied above, I don't care where a personal morality is derived from as long as it works, and for far too many people, the moral guidance value of those rules as presented would be low.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

GAYtheist

How about commen sense? It may not be that common, but it is out there, somewhere.
"It is my view that the atomic bomb is only slightly less dangerous than religion." John Paschal, myself.

"The problem with humanity is not that we are all born inherently stupid, that's just common knowledge. No, the problem with humanity is that 95% of us never grow out of it." John Paschal, myself

Asmodean

Quote from: "GAYtheist"How about commen sense? It may not be that common, but it is out there, somewhere.
I think the expression should go: "How about common sense? It may not be common, but hey, at least it's SENSIBLE."  :D
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Will

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"Because "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Honor your father and mother...", "Do not murder", "Do not steal" ...these are superstitious ideas.
These ideas all predate the Bible, thus the Bible cannot claim them as original, Christian morals.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: "Will"
Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"Because "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Honor your father and mother...", "Do not murder", "Do not steal" ...these are superstitious ideas.
These ideas all predate the Bible, thus the Bible cannot claim them as original, Christian morals.
Whether they do or not is really of no consequence as the God that wrote these down (whether you believe in God or not) is the God that claims to have created Man in His own image...and if so, then the basis of these are not of "Man", but innate.

So what we are left with is your belief that they existed prior to the Exodus acct. and my agreement with you.

Will

Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"Whether they do or not is really of no consequence as the God that wrote these down (whether you believe in God or not) is the God that claims to have created Man in His own image...and if so, then the basis of these are not of "Man", but innate.

So what we are left with is your belief that they existed prior to the Exodus acct. and my agreement with you.
Concepts like empathy, 'honoring' fellow members of the species, not killing and not stealing actually predate sentience in human evolution and can theoretically be dated back to before we were even primates. Our distant ancestors that first evolved cooperation with other members of the species are actually the root of these things, and that dates back tens of millions of years. Theism itself is really only maybe 20,000 years old, and the concept of Yahweh is only a few thousand years old. Like every religion, Christianity adopted natural human ethics as Christian in a (successful) attempt to appeal to people and spread.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

skwurll

"Would I be upset if someone did this to me?"
If the answer is yes, I don't do it. (Except in extenuating circumstances where intervention is absolutely necessary.)

The same rule I learned in kindergarten still applies today.

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: "Will"
Quote from: "AnimatedDirt"So what we are left with is your belief that they existed prior to the Exodus acct. and my agreement with you.
Concepts like empathy, 'honoring' fellow members of the species, not killing and not stealing actually predate sentience in human evolution and can theoretically be dated back to before we were even primates. Our distant ancestors that first evolved cooperation with other members of the species are actually the root of these things, and that dates back tens of millions of years. Theism itself is really only maybe 20,000 years old, and the concept of Yahweh is only a few thousand years old. Like every religion, Christianity adopted natural human ethics as Christian in a (successful) attempt to appeal to people and spread.
As I mentioned before, we are left at the same point.  These are natural, whether they be of God or of Evolutionary nature, they are natural.
So then, the point I'm making is that;
Quote from: "Tank"Minus the influences of institutionalised superstition.
There is no superstition in them if these are natural, either by God or by Nature.