Im still in the closet. I dont think I'll ever be the Hitchens or Harris of Atheism since its sucjh a taboo right now in society but I do have the personality for it. But I feel like I cant be myself. I would describe myself as an intellectual. I know a lot about a lot of things and wish to know more because I've always thought that the more you know, the more you can learn about yourself that would make you a better person along the way. I am intrigued by social sciences and cosmology/astronomy.
I just need a place to vent. I've built a world around Christianity and if I come out I am scared I'll lose it all. I've got a wife and kids who I've dedicated to the church. My wife is devout and old school fundamentalist. I havent been here for the years fo the same reason so many others wont and never will, its wrong to doubt. Doubt is a sin.Its wrong to question god. I agree with the moral aspect of the teachings (not OT stuff) but the rational law. I dont like writing checks every week to the church. I've been approached by my wife as not reading the bible to our kids. Its because I cant in good faith lead them stray. I also would hate to die and be wrong. though Im 99.9999999% sure Im right. thats a chance I'll take. but Id hate to FORCE my kids to believe what i believe and be wrong. I am probably agnostic (i dont know what I am but its not christian). I dont know where we came from but I think religion is WAAAAY off. I think atheism (there is no god and thats that) is the same rigid, stick in the mud, close minded mentality that I hated about christianity. So I am reluctant to use atheist to describe myself. I cant believe Im writing this. Just needed to vent know that there is a guy out there who sits in church every sunday watching people be moved by their own deep emotion and feel guilty.
The one thing I do admit when I look around at all the old people at church out there, is they have hope. hope that they will one day see each other again, the rapist will pay for his crime, babies are in gods arms, they are not alone. I look out there and I see that and think, WOW. they would be devestated if they took off their glasses for 2 seconds. i also dont want them to cry for me becuase I understand more how it all works. I know this is all over the place but there is so much i needed to say and forums arent exactly
Welcome to HAF. I'm sure that we have quite a few members here in similar situations.
Btw, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god; not necessarily someone who claims to know one can't possibly exist...philosophically that's a very important distinction.
You are in a sticky dilemma. You certainly don't need to force your kids down any particular path.
Atheism does not require teaching or force. The problem is with young children, that they are so trusting, they will believe everything you tell them.
If you tell them that god does exist and that he is described in the Christian bible and that he had a son called Jesus, then they will believe you.
If you tell them that god does exist and that he is described in the Qu'ran and that he had a prophet named Mohammad, then they will believe you.
If you tell them that gods do exist and that they are described in Vedas and that the supreme Brahman combined with Shiva and Vishnu are the three aspects of the supreme god, then they will believe you.
If you tell them that there are no gods then they will believe you.
But as the saying goes "give a man a fish and he will eat today, teach him to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life", so it might be better that you explain that many people from all over the world believe in different gods or no god at all. That there is no evidence either way and that no religion can be proven to be more right than others. It comes down to personal choice hence they should be respectful of people with different beliefs.
Hello and welcome to HAF,
roadrunner. The life you have doesn't sound terrible (wife and kids you love), and it also sounds like you can hold up your end. At least you aren't a Christian minister who doesn't believe in the god whose gospel he preaches (http://www.examiner.com/freethought-in-philadelphia/ministers-who-are-secretly-atheist-participate-landmark-study). I'm glad you found a place to let down your hair! You might consider using the "private browsing" feature of your browser when you visit, just as a precaution. ;)
I honestly don't blame you for living in the closet as you do. If your wife isn't the understanding sort, and is a particularly unbending fundamentalist, coming out could have results ranging from rather unpleasant to disastrous for your family. It's sad that you don't think you can trust her to reconcile herself to your views on religion. As for your kids, well, along with bringing them up Christian, there's no reason you can't also try to help them to learn to think for themselves. After all, the two aren't absolutely mutually exclusive, even if some Christians seem to believe they are.
I imagine some will advocate honesty as the best policy (and I generally agree), but you know your situation better than any of us, and I'm willing to accept that you know what you're talking about.
QuoteNotes for new members from Tank:
The Rules. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0)
Users who comply with forum rules will graduate to full membership after 10 posts. Till that time your ability to post is limited to the "Getting to Know You" (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php#2) section of the forum. It is our hope that this small restriction improves the overall atmosphere of HAF.
Some threads you might find interesting.
Where did you get your username from? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0)
10 Things About Yourself (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4940.0)
Tell us A Bit About Where You're From (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8215.0)
Photography (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)
Non-religious pet peeves (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6917.0)
Pets...what do you have? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7.0)
How to tell your family you are an atheist. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5111.0)*
*You will need 10 posts before you can add a post to this thread, but you can read it at any time.
In addition, you may find the following of interest: "Rules for Conducting a Discussion" by Dr. Mortimer J. Adler (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5631.0).
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Welcome!
Hi Roadrunner and welcome,
I honestly can't say anything better than what Whitney, Stevil and Recusant said so wont try and give any half arsed opinion on what you may be able to do as I have absolutely no experience with anything like the situation you have described. I hope the forum will be a place you can express your feelings which you have needed to bottle up so far and look forward to reading your input into the various discussions.
Quote from: Recusant on January 24, 2012, 01:42:20 AM
At least you aren't a a Christian minister who doesn't believe in the god whose gospel he preaches (http://www.examiner.com/freethought-in-philadelphia/ministers-who-are-secretly-atheist-participate-landmark-study).
The basis of that article needs to be made into a TV series and I would certainly watch it. There are so many unique storylines/arcs and emotions it can play with. Somebody pitch it to HBO or AMC. Though if it was about a priest (or whatever) trying to find god again that would be boring. It should be about seeing the world through new eyes, the facade they need to wear, how it slowly beings to get pulled away and the interaction of people when it does.
Hi, Roadrunner, and welcome!
I'm glad you found HAF. In the short time I've been here, I've really appreciated the community. For someone like yourself who's very much interwoven into a Christian community, having something else to read online and people to speak with may just go a long way towards helping keep you sane.
You may still be in the closet, but that's OK, you can always think of this forum as the "secular Narnia" buried deep in the back of that closet. *grin* A different world to explore, for sure!
Welcome roadrunner!
Hopefully you'll find we're a little more open-minded than you think. Many of us (like myself) don't claim to know for absolutely sure that there is no god. We're just very, very convinced :) I echo Recusant in saying you should use the privacy setting on your browser. Ctrl+shift+p should do it
hi there, family man who hit the streets
I recommend you do not dwell so much in what you are Not, like not christian, not athesit etc.
but instead focus on what you are
human
thinking
emotional
single out the value of reasoning, in correspondant cause and effect, that is, what I think caused something another person can witness.
See how hope and blind faith is an emergency mode for when you hit a wall that cannot be bypassed. An emegrency mode for when reason is useless
it boils down to the egoist fear feeling of impending self-discontinuity, known as death.
Apart from this single constructed (false) case
every other anguish depends on earthly variables and human characteristics, love, justice, equality, security, sufficience
that need humans to get together in a sincere direct way, without "divine representatives" to dictate questionable morality and without "god" to provide a comfort label for the great unknown and uncertain.
I hope you exit the closet and use it as firewood, attracting friends in loving company by your fire
Hello Roadrunner
The thing that comes over from your introduction is that you appear to be in a state of turmoil over your own world view and your responsibilities to your family. Not a good place to be, you have my sympathies and please feel free to use the forum as a place to vent and relieve a little of your frustrations.
It is my experience that what Christians understand of atheism is not what atheists think of atheism, so first things first, forget what you have been told about atheism by your fellow Christians. The first thing to understand about people who identify themselves as atheists is that there are two general groupings and all kinds of caveats around them. The two main groupings are often refered to as 'weak' and 'strong'. A weak atheist does not dismiss the miniscule possibility that a god of some kind could exist. The view is based on the impossibility of proving a negative; one can never prove that a god could not exist. Be aware this is a deistic god, a non-interventionist creator if you like. The weak view is also related to the lack of objective evidence that a god exists. The strong atheist goes further and believes that this lack of evidence is so great that there is no possibility that a god of any type exists. About 75% of atheists are 'weak' and 25% 'strong' with reference to an as yet unidentified deistic god.
When it comes to an interventionist theistic God(s) e.g. Allah, the picture becomes more problematic. When it comes to a theist God then I would say the vast majority (98%+) of atheist are 'strong' in that they actively deny the existence of such an entity.
Thanks for making the effort to sign up and join in I hope the discussions you have here will be helpful and interesting.
Welcome to HAF. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg32.imageshack.us%2Fimg32%2F2922%2Fcheersi.gif&hash=d22c932723fd55512134b1ae98b018246ccbb424)
Regards
Chris
Tank, I think that I'm more in aa panic now. My wife Im sure would eventually understand. She is a smart person, she sees some of the flaws in christianity but sweeps them under the rug. Im not sweeping anymore. As for my kids, my daughter is 3 and very smart she doesnt understand about how some one can be watching her that she cant see.
Quote from: roadrunner on January 24, 2012, 12:00:14 PM
Tank, I think that I'm more in aa panic now. My wife Im sure would eventually understand. She is a smart person, she sees some of the flaws in christianity but sweeps them under the rug. Im not sweeping anymore. As for my kids, my daughter is 3 and very smart she doesnt understand about how some one can be watching her that she cant see.
Well that all sounds good. My wife and I have always been atheists although my mum dragged me to church and my wife attended a Christian school so we were both inoculated rather than indoctrinated. I have three grown up children and one recent grand child who still lacks bladder and bowel control! ;D
Institutionalised superstitions (religions) have always required the skeptical/cynical to keep their mouths shut to survive. Good to see you're making a difference, however localised it may be.
Hello roadrunner and welcome to HAF
I'm happy you joined up and shared your story. Hopefully you'll find this a helpful place.
sorry for continuing on the subject but one of the reasons I think Im nervous about it all is that my wife and I built everything around god thinking it was the right thing to do, we bought a house close to church, had kids who we later dedicated to the church and I feel like Im bailing out on the plan...even if it was lame. Its almost like betrayal. but my wife is very smart and if she dared to remove her glasses shed agree. too many tough questions and to make christianity work you have to bend it further and further to make sense of life as we know it with dinosaurs, old earth, star formation, etc. Its like you are building your testimony for denying what the evidence is telling you. I have friends that post daily "Faith is believing wwhen everything is telling you not to." I want to scream so bad. "NO THATS STUPIDITY" we sweep it under the rug to build this lie and keep this thing going. You guys dont worry im not in a state of turmoil or anything because Ive stragled further and further from where i used to be. not reading bible prayers are short, monotonous, vain repititions
When I was a believer some of the shallowest reasons that I heard were turning people from the faith are actually good questions. They mainly question the consistency of gods character and pick it apart from there when on a personal level I mainly questioned his existence. Personally I never understood people who were bitter toward god or devil worshiping in resentment. Thats silly to resent a fictitious being. Its like hating santa for not giving you presents. I have come to the conclusion that based on how big the cosmos is and how tiny we are and what we know now abnout how it all works, its insane to think that people 3000 years ago who thought a FLAT earth was the center of the universe got it right.
My hope is that someone will see my posts and quit lying to themselves. Im sure there are millions out there trying to gain favor of the community and look good by swimming against reality. I talk a good game online but I'll be in church sunday against my will. I'll check back in later.
Be funny if your wife is thinking the same thing, holding back her disbelief in case you will be disappointed in her.
Quote from: roadrunner on January 24, 2012, 11:42:36 PM
My hope is that someone will see my posts and quit lying to themselves. Im sure there are millions out there trying to gain favor of the community and look good by swimming against reality. I talk a good game online but I'll be in church sunday against my will. I'll check back in later.
Roadrunner, don't beat yourself up. Honestly, I think you're being too hard on yourself. You're a smart guy who's asking some very honest, very hard questions. Absolutely nobody can just extricate themselves from their community overnight, especially when they have a spouse and kids, no less. It takes a good long while before most people feel ready enough to just toss in the towel and make a leap that'll affect their entire family, so far as they know. The good news is, people are remarkably resilient, children especially. When your kids grow up, I have a feeling they'll be able to say 'my dad took us to church even though he was struggling with a lot of questions himself, and we're proud of him for being honest and for showing he cared about us." :)
For what it's worth, 'mixed marriages' are possible. They're difficult to work out sometimes, but they're possible and they can work. Even if your wife NEVER jumps on board with you with regard to beliefs, what's the worst that could happen? Your kids will still wind up with two parents who love them very much, one a Christian, one a skeptic. If need be, your wife can take them to church if she wants to and if they'd like to go, and your kids wind up Christians who have learned to be tolerant of beliefs different from their own... or you may find as they grow older, they'll sense that you're just going through the motions at church, and they'll start to ask some critical, analytical questions themselves -- and then look out, you may have some young, feisty new skeptics on your hands. *grin* ;)
Just keep asking those questions, yourself. Read what you can, speak to who you can, and take it a day at a time. We're here for ya. :)
Quote from: Stevil on January 24, 2012, 11:45:56 PM
Be funny if your wife is thinking the same thing, holding back her disbelief in case you will be disappointed in her.
I wonder the same thing. LOL. i read somewhere that the gold standard in coming out is "I was thinking the samething!" or "Me too. this is pretty stupid!" LOL
@amicale.... looking back i now know my dad was/is an atheist. he just didnt force it on me and now it all makes sense.
Quote from: Stevil on January 24, 2012, 11:45:56 PM
Be funny if your wife is thinking the same thing, holding back her disbelief in case you will be disappointed in her.
Priests, preachers and probably popes do, maybe not to avoid disappointing others though.
Hello Roadrunner, good luck.
Any mention of luck in the above post should not be taken as suggesting the existence of unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that may accrue to a person which causes events to result favourably or unfavourably. Unless of course the addressee has made up to date payments to The Magic Pudding Luck Scheme.
Quote from: roadrunner on January 24, 2012, 11:42:36 PM
I have come to the conclusion that based on how big the cosmos is and how tiny we are and what we know now abnout how it all works, its insane to think that people 3000 years ago who thought a FLAT earth was the center of the universe got it right.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there Roadrunner, the people who wrote the Bible had a vastly different and much smaller view of the cosmos, and their idea of god(s) was very much in relation to that much smaller cosmos.
Good luck with everything and welcome to the forum.
fyi the rest of my first post was
that forums aren't exactly friendly to newcomers like me looking for a place to vent
Quote from: roadrunner on January 25, 2012, 07:37:52 PM
fyi the rest of my first post was
that forums aren't exactly friendly to newcomers like me looking for a place to vent
You will find this place unusual in that respect ;D
Quote from: roadrunner on January 23, 2012, 10:42:27 PM
Im still in the closet. I dont think I'll ever be the Hitchens or Harris of Atheism since its sucjh a taboo right now in society but I do have the personality for it. But I feel like I cant be myself. I would describe myself as an intellectual. I know a lot about a lot of things and wish to know more because I've always thought that the more you know, the more you can learn about yourself that would make you a better person along the way. I am intrigued by social sciences and cosmology/astronomy.
Boy I sure understand where you're coming from Roadrunner. But think for a moment, is the so-called Christianity today what Jesus taught? Like tithing you mentioned, is that what Jesus taught?
Quote from: roadrunnerI just need a place to vent. I've built a world around Christianity and if I come out I am scared I'll lose it all. I've got a wife and kids who I've dedicated to the church. My wife is devout and old school fundamentalist. I havent been here for the years fo the same reason so many others wont and never will, its wrong to doubt. Doubt is a sin.Its wrong to question god. I agree with the moral aspect of the teachings (not OT stuff) but the rational law. I dont like writing checks every week to the church. I've been approached by my wife as not reading the bible to our kids. Its because I cant in good faith lead them stray. I also would hate to die and be wrong. though Im 99.9999999% sure Im right. thats a chance I'll take. but Id hate to FORCE my kids to believe what i believe and be wrong. I am probably agnostic (i dont know what I am but its not christian). I dont know where we came from but I think religion is WAAAAY off. I think atheism (there is no god and thats that) is the same rigid, stick in the mud, close minded mentality that I hated about christianity. So I am reluctant to use atheist to describe myself. I cant believe Im writing this. Just needed to vent know that there is a guy out there who sits in church every sunday watching people be moved by their own deep emotion and feel guilty.
Let it out man, you're not alone.
Emotion, guilt, it is used by all, atheists, theists, believers and un-believers, it is called indoctrination. What do they do when you join the army? Indoctrination, ... that's what!
What we're all to seek after is the truth, and if that is what you're after, then seek the truth, and don't settle for any indoctrinations. Once you find the 'truth' you will find GOD. Once you find GOD, it will not be you who hides from them so-called Christians, but they will hide from you!
Quote from: roadrunnerThe one thing I do admit when I look around at all the old people at church out there, is they have hope. hope that they will one day see each other again, the rapist will pay for his crime, babies are in gods arms, they are not alone. I look out there and I see that and think, WOW. they would be devestated if they took off their glasses for 2 seconds. i also dont want them to cry for me becuase I understand more how it all works. I know this is all over the place but there is so much i needed to say and forums arent exactly
They have Hope?
The world is filled with people who make a very good living on giving false hope. The Reverend Jim Jones gave hope to thousands, and so did David Koresh, and many, .. many more and look where it got them? And the followers? I don't think God will take it too lightly that they 'believed' a man over Gods Truth, ... now do you?
So many gods and versions of Christianity, ... which one is the true one?
Atheism is a start my friend, leave all them gods to the ones who created them; ... men.
to answer your question in my opinion none of them are true. but Im refering to the false hope that they will not suffer one day and have a mansion etc. everyone isnt ready to handle enlightenment,
Quote from: roadrunner on January 27, 2012, 02:32:39 PM
to answer your question in my opinion none of them are true. but Im refering to the false hope that they will not suffer one day and have a mansion etc. everyone isnt ready to handle enlightenment,
Exactly, because according to the Bible, none of those 'theistic gods' are true. We have One God, who can only be referred to like; "The God that IS" , ... or as He told Moses; "I Am who I Am, ... tell my people that 'I Am' has sent me to you."
The word 'theism' was derived from a long Pagan worship of made up gods and godesses, which did not include the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They didn't even knoow of Him. So there arose some people who got tired of worshipping all them gods, ... one in the garden to protect the vegetables, .. one in the bedroom to help the men keep an erection .. you know like Viagra today, LOL, then there were the ones they needed on the boats to keep sea-monsters away and thousands more. So these people got smart and realized that none of these god could do what the priests and priestesses said they could, and trashed them all.
This made the priests afraid, for they depended on the offerings to these gods. So they named these slackers 'atheists'.
ATHEIST
unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference LibraryRemember that the 'God' here is not necesseraly the God of the Bible.
THEIST
1. belief in God: belief that one God created and rules humans and the world, not necessarily accompanied by belief in divine revelation such as through the Bible
2. belief in god or gods: belief in the existence of a god or gods
Microsoft® Encarta®
The God here is a 'monotheist God' like Allah, who is not the God of our Bible, for Allah does not have a Son.
Find the One TRue God and you will find who you are and your purpose for your physical existance.
Quote from: arian on January 31, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
Quote from: roadrunner on January 27, 2012, 02:32:39 PM
to answer your question in my opinion none of them are true. but Im refering to the false hope that they will not suffer one day and have a mansion etc. everyone isnt ready to handle enlightenment,
Exactly, because according to the Bible, none of those 'theistic gods' are true. We have One God, who can only be referred to like; "The God that IS" , ... or as He told Moses; "I Am who I Am, ... tell my people that 'I Am' has sent me to you."
The word 'theism' was derived from a long Pagan worship of made up gods and godesses, which did not include the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They didn't even knoow of Him. So there arose some people who got tired of worshipping all them gods, ... one in the garden to protect the vegetables, .. one in the bedroom to help the men keep an erection .. you know like Viagra today, LOL, then there were the ones they needed on the boats to keep sea-monsters away and thousands more. So these people got smart and realized that none of these god could do what the priests and priestesses said they could, and trashed them all.
This made the priests afraid, for they depended on the offerings to these gods. So they named these slackers 'atheists'.
ATHEIST
unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library
Remember that the 'God' here is not necesseraly the God of the Bible.
THEIST
1. belief in God: belief that one God created and rules humans and the world, not necessarily accompanied by belief in divine revelation such as through the Bible
2. belief in god or gods: belief in the existence of a god or gods
Microsoft® Encarta®
The God here is a 'monotheist God' like Allah, who is not the God of our Bible, for Allah does not have a Son.
Find the One TRue God and you will find who you are and your purpose for your physical existance.
It's rather simple:
If you believe in a god (any god, the ONE true I IS god or even Bob), then you're a theist. If you don't, then you're an atheist.
Quote from: Davin on January 31, 2012, 06:07:17 PM
Quote from: arian on January 31, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
Quote from: roadrunner on January 27, 2012, 02:32:39 PM
to answer your question in my opinion none of them are true. but Im refering to the false hope that they will not suffer one day and have a mansion etc. everyone isnt ready to handle enlightenment,
Exactly, because according to the Bible, none of those 'theistic gods' are true. We have One God, who can only be referred to like; "The God that IS" , ... or as He told Moses; "I Am who I Am, ... tell my people that 'I Am' has sent me to you."
The word 'theism' was derived from a long Pagan worship of made up gods and godesses, which did not include the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They didn't even knoow of Him. So there arose some people who got tired of worshipping all them gods, ... one in the garden to protect the vegetables, .. one in the bedroom to help the men keep an erection .. you know like Viagra today, LOL, then there were the ones they needed on the boats to keep sea-monsters away and thousands more. So these people got smart and realized that none of these god could do what the priests and priestesses said they could, and trashed them all.
This made the priests afraid, for they depended on the offerings to these gods. So they named these slackers 'atheists'.
ATHEIST
unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library
Remember that the 'God' here is not necesseraly the God of the Bible.
THEIST
1. belief in God: belief that one God created and rules humans and the world, not necessarily accompanied by belief in divine revelation such as through the Bible
2. belief in god or gods: belief in the existence of a god or gods
Microsoft® Encarta®
The God here is a 'monotheist God' like Allah, who is not the God of our Bible, for Allah does not have a Son.
Find the One TRue God and you will find who you are and your purpose for your physical existance.
It's rather simple:
If you believe in a god (any god, the ONE true I IS god or even Bob), then you're a theist. If you don't, then you're an atheist.
Can you define "I Am"?
Going back to the Garden of Eden, the first man Adam. Now he knew GOD. We must define GOD as Adam knew God.
Jesus came and 'defined' GOD to us;
John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
NKJV
1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
NKJVUnless we change the definition of 'theism' to "The belief in God" period, then God would remain the One true God in everyones minds.
Arian, your god is no different from Zeus, Baal or Osiris. You clearly know nothing about the Bible or the history of Israelite religion / Judaism. The god of the Jews is Yahweh, he's named as Yahweh many times in the Tanakh. There are also mentions in the Tanakh of El, the main god the Israelites worshipped before Yahwism became the dominant faith in the monarchic period.
Hi Roadrunner,
I understand how it could be hard to separate yourself from a community that you loved and enjoyed. I don't blame you for that. I think that it's possible for believers and non-believers to have great relationships, but there has to be a certain level of respect there, and I can also understand how, if you built your life around your religion, your wife might well feel "betrayed" by you "changing your mind" so to speak. I don't have any good advice for you, just wanted to tell you good luck, and welcome to the forum. You'll find lots of supportive people here.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on January 31, 2012, 10:46:20 PM
Arian, your god is no different from Zeus, Baal or Osiris. You clearly know nothing about the Bible or the history of Israelite religion / Judaism. The god of the Jews is Yahweh, he's named as Yahweh many times in the Tanakh. There are also mentions in the Tanakh of El, the main god the Israelites worshipped before Yahwism became the dominant faith in the monarchic period.
No, it is the Theistic gods who are no different then the version of Christian god you imagine.
As for the Jews, ... after they left the mountain of God where Moses talked to Him, their faith went downhill from there. They are a rebellious people and still are, and the last place I would turn to understand, or to get to 'know' GOD is the Jews, or their books other than the Bible.
God has no name, Yahweh is not His name, just as 'jellous' is not His name.
Ex 34:14
14(for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God)NKJV
God has no other gods besides Him, so He does not need to be identified besides 'other gods', for GOD is ONE. We are all in GOD, and GOD is all there is.
Zeus, Odin and Santa are all fairy tales, just as the Three-Demigods defined in the Trinity Doctrine by those we now call Christians.
be open to everything
Welcome to the forum! Not all old people have "hope". I have told this story on here before I think, but it's kind of funny so I'll retell it. I was at a horse race betting bar eating a meal when I decide to praise buddha for my meal as a joke. An old lady at the next table said you are in the wrong place for that! I told her I was sorry that I didn't just blindly believe what all the people around me believe in. She looked away because of my harsh tone then looked back and said that's right because all religion is bullshit and was made to scam people out of money while her husband smiled and nodded. I was shocked. I told my friend that I though I was going to get into an argument, but that I decided I loved the old lady and the whole bar. A room full of old people who hated religion. Now that gave ME hope.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 03, 2012, 11:17:06 PM
Welcome to the forum! Not all old people have "hope". I have told this story on here before I think, but it's kind of funny so I'll retell it. I was at a horse race betting bar eating a meal when I decide to praise buddha for my meal as a joke. An old lady at the next table said you are in the wrong place for that! I told her I was sorry that I didn't just blindly believe what all the people around me believe in. She looked away because of my harsh tone then looked back and said that's right because all religion is bullshit and was made to scam people out of money while her husband smiled and nodded. I was shocked. I told my friend that I though I was going to get into an argument, but that I decided I loved the old lady and the whole bar. A room full of old people who hated religion. Now that gave ME hope.
That is an AWESOME story.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 04, 2012, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 03, 2012, 11:17:06 PM
Welcome to the forum! Not all old people have "hope". I have told this story on here before I think, but it's kind of funny so I'll retell it. I was at a horse race betting bar eating a meal when I decide to praise buddha for my meal as a joke. An old lady at the next table said you are in the wrong place for that! I told her I was sorry that I didn't just blindly believe what all the people around me believe in. She looked away because of my harsh tone then looked back and said that's right because all religion is bullshit and was made to scam people out of money while her husband smiled and nodded. I was shocked. I told my friend that I though I was going to get into an argument, but that I decided I loved the old lady and the whole bar. A room full of old people who hated religion. Now that gave ME hope.
That is an AWESOME story.
Yeah that was in Rockford Illinois. I still miss IL and will probably go back eventually. That is one liberal ass state with a ton of Atheists. Even the Christains there never go to church.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 04, 2012, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 04, 2012, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 03, 2012, 11:17:06 PM
Welcome to the forum! Not all old people have "hope". I have told this story on here before I think, but it's kind of funny so I'll retell it. I was at a horse race betting bar eating a meal when I decide to praise buddha for my meal as a joke. An old lady at the next table said you are in the wrong place for that! I told her I was sorry that I didn't just blindly believe what all the people around me believe in. She looked away because of my harsh tone then looked back and said that's right because all religion is bullshit and was made to scam people out of money while her husband smiled and nodded. I was shocked. I told my friend that I though I was going to get into an argument, but that I decided I loved the old lady and the whole bar. A room full of old people who hated religion. Now that gave ME hope.
That is an AWESOME story.
Yeah that was in Rockford Illinois. I still miss IL and will probably go back eventually. That is one liberal ass state with a ton of Atheists. Even the Christains there never go to church.
Rockford!!! I've been there!!! Spent one night in the worst hotel I've ever stayed in. Mind you the bar had a very pretty lady serving who just adored my accent. She chatted with me all evening, somewhat to the annoyance of the local regulars.
Quote from: Tank on May 04, 2012, 08:15:35 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 04, 2012, 07:33:40 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 04, 2012, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 03, 2012, 11:17:06 PM
Welcome to the forum! Not all old people have "hope". I have told this story on here before I think, but it's kind of funny so I'll retell it. I was at a horse race betting bar eating a meal when I decide to praise buddha for my meal as a joke. An old lady at the next table said you are in the wrong place for that! I told her I was sorry that I didn't just blindly believe what all the people around me believe in. She looked away because of my harsh tone then looked back and said that's right because all religion is bullshit and was made to scam people out of money while her husband smiled and nodded. I was shocked. I told my friend that I though I was going to get into an argument, but that I decided I loved the old lady and the whole bar. A room full of old people who hated religion. Now that gave ME hope.
That is an AWESOME story.
Yeah that was in Rockford Illinois. I still miss IL and will probably go back eventually. That is one liberal ass state with a ton of Atheists. Even the Christains there never go to church.
Rockford!!! I've been there!!! Spent one night in the worst hotel I've ever stayed in. Mind you the bar had a very pretty lady serving who just adored my accent. She chatted with me all evening, somewhat to the annoyance of the local regulars.
The fact that the hotel had a bar tells me it's the not the worst hotel you could have stayed at. I've been in some pretty shady hotels. Yes we Americans love the British accent. It's the most distinguished English speaking accent. Germans sound goofy, Russians sound sinister, and people from New Jersey sound mentally handicapped.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 04, 2012, 08:25:59 PM
The fact that the hotel had a bar tells me it's the not the worst hotel you could have stayed at. I've been in some pretty shady hotels. Yes we Americans love the British accent. It's the most distinguished English speaking accent. Germans sound goofy, Russians sound sinister, and people from New Jersey sound mentally handicapped.
I'm sure there are worst hotels! The funny thing about my accent was that when people guessed it they guessed Australian. If I 'poshed' it up just a little bit it didn't take long to find some female company who would hang on me every word. I miss America :(
Quote from: Tank on May 04, 2012, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 04, 2012, 08:25:59 PM
The fact that the hotel had a bar tells me it's the not the worst hotel you could have stayed at. I've been in some pretty shady hotels. Yes we Americans love the British accent. It's the most distinguished English speaking accent. Germans sound goofy, Russians sound sinister, and people from New Jersey sound mentally handicapped.
I'm sure there are worst hotels! The funny thing about my accent was that when people guessed it they guessed Australian. If I 'poshed' it up just a little bit it didn't take long to find some female company who would hang on me every word. I miss America :(
Yeah I though I was going to have any girl I wanted when I moved down south because of my Midwest accent. Little did I know people from all over moved to this broke city and most of them sound like me. And a lot of the women here have facial hair in abundance :-\
Quote from: Tank on May 04, 2012, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 04, 2012, 08:25:59 PM
The fact that the hotel had a bar tells me it's the not the worst hotel you could have stayed at. I've been in some pretty shady hotels. Yes we Americans love the British accent. It's the most distinguished English speaking accent. Germans sound goofy, Russians sound sinister, and people from New Jersey sound mentally handicapped.
I'm sure there are worst hotels! The funny thing about my accent was that when people guessed it they guessed Australian. If I 'poshed' it up just a little bit it didn't take long to find some female company who would hang on me every word. I miss America :(
Come to NYC , Tank!!! I'll welcome you here.
Quote from: roadrunner on January 24, 2012, 11:42:36 PM
one of the reasons I think Im nervous about it all is that my wife and I built everything around god thinking it was the right thing to do, we bought a house close to church, had kids who we later dedicated to the church and I feel like Im bailing out on the plan...even if it was lame. Its almost like betrayal. but my wife is very smart and if she dared to remove her glasses shed agree. too many tough questions and to make christianity work you have to bend it further and further to make sense of life as we know it with dinosaurs, old earth, star formation, etc. Its like you are building your testimony for denying what the evidence is telling you. I have friends that post daily "Faith is believing wwhen everything is telling you not to." I want to scream so bad. "NO THATS STUPIDITY" we sweep it under the rug to build this lie and keep this thing going.
i know exactly what you mean, but in my situation, replace 'my wife' with 'my mum'. writing that it seems crazy, but we have always had a really close relationship. my husband and i got married in a church, christened our children & most of our friends are through church. its difficult to turn round a say, actually i think this whole god thing is a bit barmy. and all those facebook friends that post things like that...garr. worse still, one of my fb friends is open about his atheism and he posts some great stuff which i'd love to 'like' but my mum will see it and i cant face telling her.
hope this quote works, never done it before and i have a toy waving in my face atm.
Quote from: predsk on May 24, 2012, 10:38:08 AM
What's up, I just wanted to say, you're dead wrong. Your blog doesn't make any sense.
Strike one.
I suggest if you wish to remain a member you try to add more value than that.
Quote from: Anti-antidisestablishmentarianism on May 04, 2012, 08:25:59 PM
The fact that the hotel had a bar tells me it's the not the worst hotel you could have stayed at. I've been in some pretty shady hotels. Yes we Americans love the British accent. It's the most distinguished English speaking accent. Germans sound goofy, Russians sound sinister, and people from New Jersey sound mentally handicapped.
Ahem, us Kiwi's our accents are devine.
But then again, we don't have accents, everyone else does.
Quote from: StevilAhem, us Kiwi's our accents are devine
To a deaf, drunken and demented Ookabollawonga witch-doctor, maybe. But he'd have to be profoundly deaf.
Quote from: Tank on May 24, 2012, 10:43:38 AM
Quote from: predsk on May 24, 2012, 10:38:08 AM
What's up, I just wanted to say, you're dead wrong. Your blog doesn't make any sense.
Strike one.
I suggest if you wish to remain a member you try to add more value than that.
This person is a spammer, as can be seen here (http://www.stopforumspam.com/evidence/19075569). (The user name is different, but it's the same e-mail address they used to register here.) I hadn't even seen this post when I banned them; just did my usual check of newly registered members and proceeded as normal. No strike two and three for them. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg826.imageshack.us%2Fimg826%2F4195%2Flolbymissbangles.gif&hash=a459a670b2fef67538964246ce892a4b5f7d96e2)
Quote from: Recusant on May 24, 2012, 08:04:28 PM
No strike two and three for them. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg826.imageshack.us%2Fimg826%2F4195%2Flolbymissbangles.gif&hash=a459a670b2fef67538964246ce892a4b5f7d96e2)
And here I was hoping to find out where this blog of ours was, all I've found is this forum.
Quote from: OldGit on May 24, 2012, 06:10:42 PM
Quote from: StevilAhem, us Kiwi's our accents are devine
To a deaf, drunken and demented Ookabollawonga witch-doctor, maybe. But he'd have to be profoundly deaf.
;D
Hmmm, yes I do cringe a little at the kiwi accents on tv. Funny that, I don't notice our accents in real life, but put it on tv and it sticks out like dog's bollocks
Quote from: Recusant on May 24, 2012, 08:04:28 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 24, 2012, 10:43:38 AM
Quote from: predsk on May 24, 2012, 10:38:08 AM
What's up, I just wanted to say, you're dead wrong. Your blog doesn't make any sense.
Strike one.
I suggest if you wish to remain a member you try to add more value than that.
This person is a spammer, as can be seen here (http://www.stopforumspam.com/evidence/19075569). (The user name is different, but it's the same e-mail address they used to register here.) I hadn't even seen this post when I banned them; just did my usual check of newly registered members and proceeded as normal. No strike two and three for them. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg826.imageshack.us%2Fimg826%2F4195%2Flolbymissbangles.gif&hash=a459a670b2fef67538964246ce892a4b5f7d96e2)
Spot on Recusant :D
How many spammers so we usually get?
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 25, 2012, 09:00:43 PM
How many spammers so we usually get?
In April about 1,800.
Quote from: Stevil on May 25, 2012, 11:09:48 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 25, 2012, 09:38:10 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 25, 2012, 09:00:43 PM
How many spammers so we usually get?
In April about 1,800.
yowzers
August 2011 it was 28,000! When I joined the team there were over 45,000 accounts all bar 2,400 were spammers. I could only delete 300 at a time so it took 140 select/delete processes to get rid of them. Sounds bad but in reality it only took a couple of hours to clean things up. It's not difficult being a mod. But a good memory helps to recognise people.
Quote from: Tank on May 26, 2012, 08:56:41 AM
Quote from: Stevil on May 25, 2012, 11:09:48 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 25, 2012, 09:38:10 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 25, 2012, 09:00:43 PM
How many spammers so we usually get?
In April about 1,800.
yowzers
August 2011 it was 28,000! When I joined the team there were over 45,000 accounts all bar 2,400 were spammers. I could only delete 300 at a time so it took 140 select/delete processes to get rid of them. Sounds bad but in reality it only took a couple of hours to clean things up. It's not difficult being a mod. But a good memory helps to recognise people.
That's insane.
I will not even try to give you any advice and limit my comments to Welcome.