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Community => Parenting Beyond Belief => Topic started by: Fennia on September 08, 2010, 09:24:03 AM

Title: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Fennia on September 08, 2010, 09:24:03 AM
Hiyas,
I'm not entirely sure if this is the right place for this post, but tell me your take on...

How does it work for adult children and parents?
How often do you meet? what do you talk about? are you close or not? What causes tensions, and how do you avoid them?

As a background for my questions, I'm the younger one of two kids, both of us adults now. My brother is bi-polar. He's had it since I was 10. My parents tiptoe around the issue, and demand the same of me. They give him considerable financial support (e.g. he lives in a flat they own, and doesn't pay regular/proper rent). I don't get any financial support from them, because they say I don't need it, and they don't have enough to buy us both a flat. I manage on my own, I have a job (although not permanent, 3-6 month contracts), but I can't say life isn't a struggle sometimes. It just is, that's life, and I'm not imagining I'm the only one in the world who feels that way. Most people need to pay rent/morgage regularly, if they intend to have a roof over their heads. Most people need to buy food if they intend to eat. etc.

My brother, however, is ungreatful for the support he's getting, nothing's ever enough for him, and he's continually whining or giving me bul*s*it/snidy remarks for the life that I have. He gets it for nothing, I work hard for mine, and am expected to eat their crap for it - :crazy: I have tried and tried again to tell them they are being unreasonable towards me. What they do with their money is of course their decision, but should I be thanking them for that and the verbal abuse I get for it, or what?

I just don't get it, so any insight from you is much welcomed :)
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on September 08, 2010, 10:00:47 AM
Answers based on my personal, subjective experience

Quote from: "Fennia"How does it work for adult children and parents?
It doesn't.

QuoteHow often do you meet?
Never since... Ooh, forever ago.

Quotewhat do you talk about?
We don't

Quoteare you close or not?
Total strangers

QuoteWhat causes tensions, and how do you avoid them?
Well, given that we have no contact, there are no tensions to avoid and there is nothing to cause them.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: philosoraptor on September 08, 2010, 10:11:12 AM
My younger brother is bipolar, too.  Most of the time though, he isn't a raging jackass, so long as he's on his meds.  My dad is also bipolar and my mom is borderline.  They're divorced.

My question to you would be this: what do you get out of your relationship with your parents and brother?  Are there positives, or are they always and constantly giving you shit and making you feel bad?  Only you can weigh the positives and the negatives to decide if it's worth maintaining a relationship with family for the sake of family.

My parents are extremely difficult to deal with.  So I don't talk to them, for the most part. I haven't cut them out of my life, but generally, I don't go out of my way to keep in touch with them unless they make the first move.  If all you get out of your relationship with your family is pain and suffering, than cut them loose.  You wouldn't stay friends with someone who treated you that way-there's no reason to stay in contact with people who are abusive, just because they are family.  Sometimes, distancing yourself is the best thing you can do.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: The Magic Pudding on September 08, 2010, 10:44:01 AM
I think it's supposed to work like this:
Parents love their children and look forward to seeing them.
Children look forward to seeing their parents because they make them feel welcome and comfortable.
Children are treated equally to avoid creating ill will.
Parents and children talk and laugh about things, or nothing at all.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Tank on September 08, 2010, 01:29:04 PM
My three kids are grown up and gone. All are in touch and I talk on the phone as and when they call. I don't as a rule call them, which is a little odd now I come to think of it, but if I called them now they'd think it was even odder!

I have never had a good family connection, my one sister is 15yo than me.

Personally I never saw or felt my kids were my possessions. Once they were adult their lives were theirs. So I don't really know how it should work either.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Cecilie on September 08, 2010, 03:50:37 PM
Well, I'm not an adult so I don't know if it counts. I do live alone however. My mother pays my rent (at least for the next year, I don't know what will happen when I turn 18). I talk with my mother once or twice a week. Just the normal talk "How is it going?" and all that. I'm surprised I don't miss my parents, I thought I would. I don't think about them everyday. I don't talk with my dad often, mainly because he lives on the other side of the world... But I guess that's no good excuse. I am very grateful for my parents however, and the sacrifices they've made and the sacrifices I'm sure they're willing to make. I have certainly been disappointed in them at times, but no parent is perfect.  :P
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: humblesmurph on September 08, 2010, 04:19:17 PM
I like what Magic Pudding has to say about this.  I'll stop quoting him, lest he think I'm some sort of stalker.  Anyway, if as an adult, you are in some way dependent on your parents or expect to be sometime in the future, you'll likely have to take some boundary jumping from them occasionally.  However, there comes a point where it becomes absurd to for parents to try to tell their offspring how to act.  Nobody knows how to be you better than you.  

For better or worse, your family is your family.  I never agreed with the notion that you have no ties to them besides blood.  If you grow up in a household with people for 15-25 years it seems to me that there is some sort of connection besides a genetic one.  That is not a bridge I would burn without some deep deep thought.  And then some more deep thought.  Setting boundaries has worked for me.  I share aspects of my life with my parents, but I never ask them for advice that is above their pay grade.  I might ask my mother how to make cookie batter to make her feel needed, even though I could just do a quick Google search and likely get a superior recipe.  Try to talk about things that aren't contentious.  Be nice even if they won't.  Love them.   If that fails, take a break, then love them some more.  That seems to work for me.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on September 08, 2010, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: "humblesmurph"I never agreed with the notion that you have no ties to them besides blood.
Well, that depends on a multitude of factors, does it not?  :raised:
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Fennia on September 08, 2010, 06:30:56 PM
Thank you all so far for your answers :sigh:

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Children are treated equally to avoid creating ill will.

Exactly!  :brick: i.e. in their terms, for it to be reasonable on me, would mean for them to abandon my brother and throw him to the street. As in, happy mediums, anyone?! :blush: I think that's a dad thing  ;)

And bi-polar or not, there's n excuse to behave like a prat! :bully:
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on September 08, 2010, 06:41:53 PM
Quote from: "Fennia"As in, happy mediums, anyone?! :mad:
They owe you just as much as they do him, so their reasoning is highly questionable whatever it may be. You could try demanding your due, but you must be prepared for a war if you feel like using such measures.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: humblesmurph on September 08, 2010, 06:54:55 PM
Quote from: "Asmodean"
Quote from: "humblesmurph"I never agreed with the notion that you have no ties to them besides blood.
Well, that depends on a multitude of factors, does it not?  :raised:

Of course.  I was referring specifically to people that you grew up with in the same household.  Whether related by blood or not, there is, I believe, a certain bonding that comes through shared experiences.  It's a nice feeling to have an extensive history with a person.  Then and now sort of thing, you know.  I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to people who fed, housed, and clothed me for 18 years even if they act like miserable shits sometimes.  Every situation is different.  I have never been abused by my parents so I'm likely biased.  I can't say if I could forgive the unspeakable.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Cecilie on September 08, 2010, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: "Fennia"
Quote from: "Cecilie"Well, I'm not an adult so I don't know if it counts. I do live alone however. My mother pays my rent (at least for the next year, I don't know what will happen when I turn 18).
Cecilie, I think there's a huge difference between being under 20, or early 20s, compared to my brother being 34.  ;)
I think so too.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Tank on September 08, 2010, 08:16:10 PM
Quote from: "Fennia"
Quote from: "Tank"My three kids are grown up and gone. All are in touch and I talk on the phone as and when they call. I don't as a rule call them, which is a little odd now I come to think of it, but if I called them now they'd think it was even odder!

 ;)  as my dad rarely calls me, it's usually my mum, speaking for both of them, so to say. Does your wife ever call the kids, or always the kids calling?
Got it in one. My wife calls them and they call here, apparently they are fine.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Category on October 08, 2010, 12:37:03 PM
I feel like in this situation you have absolutely nothing that is forcing you to continue this somewhat pointless relationship, other than the fact they're family (doesn't really matter to me either, actualy)
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on October 08, 2010, 02:06:33 PM
Quote from: "Category"(doesn't really matter to me either, actualy)
Family, I'd say, is more than blood. I would call my best friend family and while technically incorrect, it'd describe my relations with him far more precisely than calling one of my blood relatives family ever could.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Explorer on October 23, 2010, 09:38:19 AM
I understand how you're feeling, but I wonder whether it's productive?  Sure, they're not doing either you or your brother any favours by under-supporting you and over-supporting him, but in the end it's their decision.  If your parents couldn't support either of you, how would your life be different?  If you stopped worrying about the support your brother was receiving, would your life be better simply for the lack of worry and the clarity of knowing that there wasn't even the hope of a safety net?

That said, what you are going through is affirmative action in microcosm.  Because part of your society has a disadvantage (disability/minority/female/immigrant/just plain useless) the powers that be are giving him welfare benefits that the rest of your society doesn't receive.  Your obvious choices are to make the most of it on your own, protest or disengage from the society.  

Odds are none of those options will get you any more welfare, or the disadvantaged member of your society less, because to the powers that be, what they are doing is "leveling the playing field".

Your best bet, if you want to get "your fair share", is to approach it as an evidence-based policy debate, rather than trying to appeal to "fairness".  They already think they're being "fair".  What you need to show them is that they are harming the whole society by adopting a sub-optimal policy.  Instead of showing how it disadvantages you, show how their misguided policy disadvantages the very part of society they are trying to help.  Be the sage policy adviser, rather than the petulant tax-payer.

I know a number of bi-polar people, some better medicated than others.  The well medicated ones are generally impressive people, each in their own way.  Bi-polarity needn't be a major disadvantage.  It sounds to me like your brother is actually more disadvantaged by being treated like an invalid all his life, than by his imbalance.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on October 23, 2010, 11:48:43 AM
On an unrelated note, why does your avatar claim that god is a complex number?  :raised:
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: The Magic Pudding on October 23, 2010, 01:43:29 PM
So are you saying -2 has a square root?
What is the correct smilie for fear of an answer? :eek2:
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on October 23, 2010, 02:01:54 PM
Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"So are you saying -2 has a square root?
What is the correct smilie for fear of an answer? :eek2:
Indeed. sqrt(-2) can be written as sqrt(2)*sqrt(-1), which amounts to sqrt(2)i

EDIT: you can look up complex numbers for a more detailed explanation, or I can provide one for you in as simple terms as I know how... I'll only do that on demand though  :P Basically, very basically, you are adding a non-geometric dimension to the number by adding negative roots to it.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Whitney on October 23, 2010, 02:50:48 PM
There are things my family doesn't bring up around each other often because we know we can't fix the problem, it's not actually hurting us directly anymore, and all it does is cause problems or make people upset to talk about it.  We came about this general rule naturally but perhaps you should make a rule of don't talk about the brother when around your parents.  If your brother is always around when you visit them tell your parents you don't want to be around him in situations where he is allowed to behave inappropriately and will not be visiting if he will be there as well...this will piss off your parents but it puts the decision to be around them in their court (downside, you have to stick to your guns and it might take a long time for them to realize you were serious).

I didn't talk to my mom for over two years because she was behaving poorly (understatement) and I didn't want to condone the situation; apparently this worked great because now she goes out of her way to act appropriately around me (even when she doesn't do so for my sister...trying to fix that too) because she doesn't want me to not talk to her again.

Basically, as kids get older roles change and sometimes the child has to teach the parent.

In this case with one of the kids being bipolar I would imagine your parents really don't see that they have any choice but to help him out to make sure he doesn't live on the street.  Maybe they need you to help parent your brother and introduce them to programs they can take advantage of?  They already know you can take care of yourslef without living on the street so their focus is elsewhere.  Just because we understand bipolar is a treatable condition and that most who have it are able to hold a steady job (even a really good job) doesn't mean your parents understand it and might think you are just jealous of the help they give him.  (when in fact their help is actually not helping your brother at all, just setting him up to be screwed when your parents are no longer able to provide for him)
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on October 23, 2010, 03:11:01 PM
On an unrelated note, why is your avatar so small?  :P )
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: The Magic Pudding on October 23, 2010, 03:14:29 PM
Whitney's post was kind, caring and insightful, her parents should be proud.

Asmodean's post was intentionally vicious and cruel, intending me harm.
It's just not natural.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on October 23, 2010, 03:16:48 PM
Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Whitney's post was kind, caring and insightful, her parents should be proud.

Asmodean's post was intentionally vicious and cruel, intending me harm.
It's just not natural.
LOL! Asmodean is in the mood of the century today, so assume his trollishness is meant to be good-natured  :P
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: The Magic Pudding on October 23, 2010, 03:25:44 PM
Quote from: "Asmodean"LOL! Asmodean is in the mood of the century today, so assume his trollishness is meant to be good-natured  :P
Are you saying the next 90 years are all downhill?
I don't think I can cope with a happy Asmodean.
How do I set the world aright?
You're not going to change your avatar are you?
It's one of my favourites.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on October 23, 2010, 03:32:09 PM
Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Are you saying the next 90 years are all downhill?
I don't think I can cope with a happy Asmodean.
How do I set the world aright?
You're not going to change your avatar are you?
It's one of my favourites.
Oh, give it one day, and avatar-like Asmodean is back.

And technically, this mood of the century is a quarter-way in, so it's about 75 years until the next time.

And on an unrelated note, why does your avatar have chicken legs?  :P
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: The Magic Pudding on October 23, 2010, 03:40:08 PM
It's how Norman drew me, I had no say in the matter.
The plot required a pudding that could run, but not to fast.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmy247.mobi%2F247venue_images%2F24612-2010224-themagicpu.jpg&hash=49c84e7d39fcda65101eb375f8ff52a8ead1bf8b)
Most puddings have no legs at all you know.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on October 23, 2010, 03:41:28 PM
Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Most puddings have no legs at all you know.
:idea:
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: The Magic Pudding on October 23, 2010, 03:45:23 PM
More substantial legs would divert the attention of the diner from the main body of the pudding.
This could have been a consideration that to occurred to the creator.
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Explorer on October 23, 2010, 09:48:49 PM
QuoteOn an unrelated note, why does your avatar claim that god is a complex number?

It doesn't.  Sqrt(-2) isn't complex, it's only imaginary and irrational.  Pure whY axis, baby!
Title: Re: Parents and adult children - how does it work?
Post by: Asmodean on October 24, 2010, 10:58:00 AM
Quote from: "Explorer"
QuoteOn an unrelated note, why does your avatar claim that god is a complex number?

It doesn't.  Sqrt(-2) isn't complex, it's only imaginary and irrational.  Pure whY axis, baby!
It is indeed complex, even when not written in standard or exponential form.

I think you quite misunderstand what an imaginary part is, by the way. It adds an actual dimension. Non-geometric one, granted, that is why it's called "imaginary", but it's there none the less... My work, for one, would sometimes be futile without it.