Happy Atheist Forum

Hello all, i feel extreme remorse for my recent behavior. I would like to say that..... i'm baaaaaccccckkkkk   :idea:

You get one more post to produce your logic while I try to figure out how you got around your ban....

on second thought...whatever, I'll give you and your friends a second chance on the condition that you all only post in this thread.

But be aware that saying that god is love and that god exists is not a logical proof of a god.  If you really are in a religious studies class you probably should know that for the final  

Quote from: "katiebam"i believe that God is the creator and i would like to hear your side about why you are so against this logic.

Oi.  When I read this, I can't help but think "I believe that Giant Hipster Panda is the creator and I would like to hear your side about why you are so against this logic."  

I'm personally not 'against' your belief in whatever entity you choose to believe in - I just don't believe it myself.  If it were simply a matter of belief, there would be no problem in my opinion, but it doesn't stop at belief.  Belief become truth which becomes Truth, which then is used to make laws which reduce my freedoms because of what you believe in.  That is honestly the only reason I 'speak out' as an atheist at all.  It's my way of saying, hello, I exist - please don't marginalize me.

Quote from: "katiebam"Hello all, i feel extreme remorse for my recent behavior. I would like to say that..... i'm baaaaaccccckkkkk   :idea:

Well don't go burdening yourself with remorse, not that this is what you're actually doing.

You believe that God is the creator and you would like to hear my side about why I am so against this logic.

Well, okay: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LOGICAL ABOUT BELIEVING THAT GOD IS THE CREATOR!!!!!!

What I am against is the education system that produces such youngsters as you.

Quote from: "katiebam"Hello all, i feel extreme remorse for my recent behavior. I would like to say that..... i'm baaaaaccccckkkkk   :idea:

Whenever you decide to post why believing in your creater is logical I'm sure we will be happy tell you why we "are so against" it.

Honestly, I'm "against" the logic of a god for many reasons. I shall list a couple basics for the time being.

-How is it that you can claim that your religion is correct, while all others are "wrong" and "mislead"? Is an Aztec who used to sacrifice a person to the gods anymore correct than you are? This is why I love the whole "Atheists are arrogant" argument. How is it that I'm arrogant when you claim to have all the answers and supposedly are on the "winning team"?

-Why is it that all religions were created in ancient times? Is it because people had no idea how the world worked at the time? Possibly yes. Is it because people had no clue about science? Absolutely. People created god to explain things that they couldn't explain themselves.

If it helps, read these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/logic


Now try again.

Quote from: "katiebam"i believe that God is the creator and i would like to hear your side about why you are so against this logic.

I believe Jews and Romans made that up thousands of years ago.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php? ... he_message (http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=50_reasons_to_believe_in_God#Responses_to_the_message)

Quote from: "Whitney"You get one more post to produce your logic while I try to figure out how you got around your ban....

Wait, what?!

Quote from: "katiebam"i believe that God is the creator and i would like to hear your side about why you are so against this logic.

You're free to believe whatever you want as far as i'm concerned, Katie. It's when you say or behave in a way that's dangerous, hypocritical or dishonest that I take issue. If, for example, you presume to educate someone about something with which you yourself aren't even familiar, I see this as dishonest. If you assume your worldview is right and others are wrong without having demonstrated that objectively and then tell people as much, I see this as dishonest.

Regarding logic, here's the most basic argument I've ever been able to come up with:
1. God is supernatural by definition.
2. There can be no scientific evidence for the supernatural, if there were it would be natural.
3. That for which there is no scientific evidence cannot be logically assumed to exist.
4. Therefore god's existence cannot logically be assumed.

Here's more:
1. Under god's law, it is immoral to murder.
2. God commits murder.
3. God is be definition perfectly moral.
4. The definition of god contradicts his behavior therefore either 2 or 3 are wrong.

I've got more if you want.

Quote from: "Will"

Quote from: "Whitney"You get one more post to produce your logic while I try to figure out how you got around your ban....

Wait, what?!

Katiebam is part of that group of students that I banned for not posting in a constructive manner.  I thought I had perm banned them pending contact from their teacher but apparently the 7 day ban I initially gave to katie for being a drama queen and arguing about the rules (I think that was the reason) took instead of the perm ban.  So second chances and all that....

Bravo. This is a nice forum and second chances are a good thing.
But I still think that katiebam and his fellow students posting here were all the same person ;)
http://www.atheistforums.com/ (http://www.atheistforums.com/)

Quote from: "Regens Küchl"But I still think that katiebam and his fellow students posting here were all the same person

I haven't ruled that out as a possibility which is why I made the requirement that they all stay in this thread (at least for now).

Quote from: "katiebam"i believe that God is the creator and i would like to hear your side about why you are so against this logic. :)

first, i am a girl, no man. second, i am no youngster. third, i am not tyler hence the name katie... and fourth, i dont appreciate being called a drama queen.  :brick: my class asignment is over and i am doing this for myself now. i really truly hope this isnt coming accross as inimical in any way. i really mean no harm. god told me to love all. i love atheists and i feel like i have a true reason to be talking to yall. so please accept me.

Quote from: "katiebam"first, i am a girl, no man. second, i am no youngster. third, i am not tyler hence the name katie... and fourth, i dont appreciate being called a drama queen.  :brick: my class asignment is over and i am doing this for myself now. i really truly hope this isnt coming accross as inimical in any way. i really mean no harm. god told me to love all. i love atheists and i feel like i have a true reason to be talking to yall. so please accept me.

Look, girl who is no youngster whose name is not tyler, you posed a ridiculously ambiguous question and had at least 10 people give you thoughtful, honest responses AFTER you had already established yourself as someone with little respect for the rules of the forum.  Honestly, what more do you want?  

Quote from: "katiebam"i believe that God is the creator and i would like to hear your side about why you are so against this logic.

Hi Katiebam,

If you have read some of the links that were posted in response, you'll notice that the study of logic dictates that the burden of proof lies on the positive, not the negative.  In other words, it is illogical to prove the negative.

If you want atheists to believe that god exists, then it is up to you to prove it, using a sound, rational argument.

Quote from: "katiebam"first, i am a girl, no man. second, i am no youngster. third, i am not tyler hence the name katie... and fourth, i dont appreciate being called a drama queen.  :brick: my class asignment is over and i am doing this for myself now. i really truly hope this isnt coming accross as inimical in any way. i really mean no harm. god told me to love all. i love atheists and i feel like i have a true reason to be talking to yall. so please accept me.

Do you want to have a serious discussion or do you want to complain about me explaining to someone else why you were banned after I was kind enough to give you a second chance (which isn't always done here)? If you want to be respected you're going to have to earn it because you lost it before.

Katiebam,

Which "God" are you referring to?
What is your definition of "love".

Oh, cool, so God isn't a magical anthropomorphic super-being, it's a combination of brain chemicals and nurturing instincts.  Sweet!

Then what's with this God created the universe woo?  Warm-blooded nurturing critters came well after the earth came into existence so there was really no love until then.

Quote from: "katiebam"Hello all, i feel extreme remorse for my recent behavior. I would like to say that..... i'm baaaaaccccckkkkk   :idea:

Science simply doesn't support the extraordinary claim that god exists. If it did, I still would not worship or love him, which is a separate fact you theists seem to often forget. Does he exist is separate from why should I worship him.

I don't believe it to be logic for the same reasons you think it is...that's what makes sense to you and that is what you have accepted to be truth.  I don't believe there is some being that created us all and needs our worship and respect because that's what makes sense to me and that is what I have accepted to be true.  I like hearing arguments about science proving God doesn't exist but when it comes down to it half of the time what I hear scientists say makes no sense to me so anyway I just have to go with what I know is true, not what science tells me is true and not what religion tells me is true....
I like the hobo pic on the Athiest image dump thread, "God is a sock"

God is love means that the Christian message is.

1. Give Love the first place.(Love, Love above everything else)
2. Love your neighbour at least as much as you love yourself

Quote from: "fdesilva"God is love means that the Christian message is.

1. Give Love the first place.(Love, Love above everything else)
2. Love your neighbour at least as much as you love yourself

Ya, the Christian message is a lot nicer when the Bible is left out of it  

I still prefer "god is a sock".  Makes the same amount of sense.

God is love emotionally speaking relative to our concept of love and hate.

Quote from: "noquarter"God is love emotionally speaking relative to our concept of love and hate.

I have several emotionally speaking relatives. They all live in Iowa.

Quote from: "noquarter"God is love emotionally speaking relative to our concept of love and hate.

What do you mean by love?
Is it sexual love?
or the love of a parent for a child?
or the love of an owner for a pet?
What do you mean by love and what do you mean by god?(jehovah,allah,zeus,dionysis or maybe thor?)

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I still prefer "god is a sock".  Makes the same amount of sense.

Is there anything in your life that takes priority above everything else? Maybe that keeps changing from day to day. If there is such a thing in your life and let’s say it is x then maybe you should say god is x. Or is x in fact your socks?

Quote from: "happynewyear"

Quote from: "noquarter"God is love emotionally speaking relative to our concept of love and hate.

What do you mean by love?
Is it sexual love?
or the love of a parent for a child?
or the love of an owner for a pet?
What do you mean by love and what do you mean by god?(jehovah,allah,zeus,dionysis or maybe thor?)

Quote from: "happynewyear"What do you mean by love?

That is the big question we take for granted or we think we know the answer,  do we really? Love is expressed in many ways and is present in all of the above however what is it?

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I still prefer "god is a sock".  Makes the same amount of sense.

Is there anything in your life that takes priority above everything else? Maybe that keeps changing from day to day. If there is such a thing in your life and let’s say it is x then maybe you should say god is x. Or is x in fact your socks?

I don't think reasonably anything can take priority over one's life itself. Through life all other priorities become possible. This is why (and I don't know if feel this way) loving god above life doesn't make any sense to me.

Quote from: "Sophus"

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I still prefer "god is a sock".  Makes the same amount of sense.

Is there anything in your life that takes priority above everything else? Maybe that keeps changing from day to day. If there is such a thing in your life and let’s say it is x then maybe you should say god is x. Or is x in fact your socks?

I don't think reasonably anything can take priority over one's life itself. Through life all other priorities become possible. This is why (and I don't know if feel this way) loving god above life doesn't make any sense to me.

The in your case the Christian message would be this.
1. Give life the first place (Live life to the fullest)
2. Treasure all life as much as you treasure yours.

BTW Christ said I am the way the truth and the life

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I still prefer "god is a sock".  Makes the same amount of sense.

Is there anything in your life that takes priority above everything else? Maybe that keeps changing from day to day. If there is such a thing in your life and let’s say it is x then maybe you should say god is x. Or is x in fact your socks?

I don't believe in god, which is why x might as well be a sock.  No matter what I might replace for x, the statement is still ridiculous because it begins with 'God is...'

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "Sophus"I don't think reasonably anything can take priority over one's life itself. Through life all other priorities become possible. This is why (and I don't know if feel this way) loving god above life doesn't make any sense to me.

The in your case the Christian message would be this.
1. Give life the first place (Live life to the fullest)
2. Treasure all life as much as you treasure yours.

BTW Christ said I am the way the truth and the life

Right, but he also said, "He who does not hate his father and his mother cannot be a disciple to me." Even the generous interpretation of this, which is that it merely is meant to imply you must love Jesus above all others, would support my earlier claim.

Quote from: "fdesilva"The in your case the Christian message would be this.
1. Give life the first place (Live life to the fullest)
2. Treasure all life as much as you treasure yours.

BTW Christ said I am the way the truth and the life

Put simply "God is Life".
"I AM", the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus here is pointing to where God can be found in each of us.
Consciousness ,the "I AM" in each one of us is where God dwells.
God ="I AM"
God ="the Way"
God ="the Truth"
God ="the Life".

Quote from: "Sophus"Right, but he also said, "He who does not hate his father and his mother cannot be a disciple to me." Even the generous interpretation of this, which is that it merely is meant to imply you must love Jesus above all others, would support my earlier claim.

What Jesus is pointing to here is that you must renounce everything, even that which you hold most dear.
Not in a physical way but metaphorically.

I don't understand why consciousness requires the complication of god.  God seems entirely arbitrarily tacked on to me.

Quote from: "noquarter"

Quote from: "Sophus"Right, but he also said, "He who does not hate his father and his mother cannot be a disciple to me." Even the generous interpretation of this, which is that it merely is meant to imply you must love Jesus above all others, would support my earlier claim.

What Jesus is pointing to here is that you must renounce everything, even that which you hold most dear.
Not in a physical way but metaphorically.

What is the point of metaphorically renouncing something?

Quote from: "Sophus"

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "Sophus"I don't think reasonably anything can take priority over one's life itself. Through life all other priorities become possible. This is why (and I don't know if feel this way) loving god above life doesn't make any sense to me.

The in your case the Christian message would be this.
1. Give life the first place (Live life to the fullest)
2. Treasure all life as much as you treasure yours.

BTW Christ said I am the way the truth and the life

Right, but he also said, "He who does not hate his father and his mother cannot be a disciple to me." Even the generous interpretation of this, which is that it merely is meant to imply you must love Jesus above all others, would support my earlier claim.

Christ also said Love your enemies. Further one of the Commandments is Honour your Father and Mother , so then what’s Christ saying..
In my opinion
Hate is lack of Love. Also Love is shown by actions. So in your case if your zest for life takes you away from your parents thus reducing your ability to love them (reduced love = hate) then so be it.
p.s I also read someware that hebrew does not have to many words as such word like hate has more than one meaning based on context

Quote from: "noquarter"

Quote from: "fdesilva"The in your case the Christian message would be this.
1. Give life the first place (Live life to the fullest)
2. Treasure all life as much as you treasure yours.

BTW Christ said I am the way the truth and the life

Put simply "God is Life".
"I AM", the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus here is pointing to where God can be found in each of us.
Consciousness ,the "I AM" in each one of us is where God dwells.
God ="I AM"
God ="the Way"
God ="the Truth"
God ="the Life".

I am = Consciossness I like that , I like to think that God is the Soul of my soul if I put God first in what I do.

None of what Christ said matters if one doesn't believe in a god. Many people posing as saviors have said similar things since Jesus' time. All that is irrelevant to the argument of whether a god exists or not.

Quote from: "katiebam"why you are so against this logic.

What logic? Their is zero logic in that. That is why it is referred to as a belief. No matter how strongly you belief in something - it will never make that all important leap to knowledge.

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I still prefer "god is a sock".  Makes the same amount of sense.

Is there anything in your life that takes priority above everything else? Maybe that keeps changing from day to day. If there is such a thing in your life and let’s say it is x then maybe you should say god is x. Or is x in fact your socks?

So....you just throw around the word god in place of the word of important.....that just seems like a desperate attempt to find god where it doesn't exist.

My family and friends are god....ya, that makes perfect sense and doesn't in any way make me sound crazy.....

Quote from: "fdesilva"That is the big question we take for granted or we think we know the answer,  do we really? Love is expressed in many ways and is present in all of the above however what is it?

We've (or more specifically, Squid) already covered the science of love:  viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4229&p=55225#p55225 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4229&p=55225#p55225)

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "noquarter"

Quote from: "fdesilva"The in your case the Christian message would be this.
1. Give life the first place (Live life to the fullest)
2. Treasure all life as much as you treasure yours.

BTW Christ said I am the way the truth and the life

Put simply "God is Life".
"I AM", the way, the truth, and the life. Jesus here is pointing to where God can be found in each of us.
Consciousness ,the "I AM" in each one of us is where God dwells.
God ="I AM"
God ="the Way"
God ="the Truth"
God ="the Life".

I am = Consciossness I like that , I like to think that God is the Soul of my soul if I put God first in what I do.

Could you both try to stay on topic....thanks.

QuoteWhat Jesus is pointing to here is that you must renounce everything, even that which you hold most dear.
Not in a physical way but metaphorically.

Got to be honest.... that doesn't make it sound any better. "Renounce everyone but me." That's not love. That's narcissism. That Jesus quote sounds like something a cult leader would say.

QuoteThe in your case the Christian message would be this.
1. Give life the first place (Live life to the fullest)
2. Treasure all life as much as you treasure yours.

Yes.  I value my life and my rights as a human being more than anything else.

I don't see why it requires the adjective "Christian," however...  Christ has nothing to do with it.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "fdesilva"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I still prefer "god is a sock".  Makes the same amount of sense.

Is there anything in your life that takes priority above everything else? Maybe that keeps changing from day to day. If there is such a thing in your life and let’s say it is x then maybe you should say god is x. Or is x in fact your socks?

So....you just throw around the word god in place of the word of important.....that just seems like a desperate attempt to find god where it doesn't exist.

My family and friends are god....ya, that makes perfect sense and doesn't in any way make me sound crazy.....

Let me explain ..
Go back to a time when Man lived in small communities. Did not travel very far. Let’s say in each of these communities, somebody pointed at a mountain they could see and said that is the tallest mountain in the world. Some believed him/her others questioned it and some others even said there is no such thing as the tallest mountain in world.

Now if the people that questioned it, took a step further and went looking for it. Then people from most communities, may not have found it, however they might have become more and more sure that such a mountain exist.  However how about the guys living near mount Everest?
So if you start by looking for some X, you will at least come to realize the real deal might exist.

BTW do I count as a friend?

I don't see how limited scope has anything to do with calling anything important god.

And no, I don't tend to consider people I hardly know and whom I have nothing in common with friends...they are acquaintances.

Quote from: "Whitney"And no, I don't tend to consider people I hardly know and whom I have nothing in common with friends...they are acquaintances.

It's all about the monkey sphere:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number

Quote from: "pinkocommie"I don't understand why consciousness requires the complication of god.  God seems entirely arbitrarily tacked on to me.

The word is not as important as what it points to. The word god (and the concept) has been in use for longer than the word consciousness (the ancients referred to Spirit  e.g The "Holy Spirit" can be translated as "Purified Consciousness")
But if it is any consolation I think the word God has got too much baggage and negative connotations attached to it.

It was the concept (not the word) that Pinko was referring to. Still arbitrary. Still tacked-on.

Redundant in a word I'd use.

Are you saying god is consciousness, or something to that effect? Why can't consciousness be consciousness?

Quote from: "pinkocommie"

Quote from: "noquarter"

Quote from: "Sophus"Right, but he also said, "He who does not hate his father and his mother cannot be a disciple to me." Even the generous interpretation of this, which is that it merely is meant to imply you must love Jesus above all others, would support my earlier claim.

What Jesus is pointing to here is that you must renounce everything, even that which you hold most dear.
Not in a physical way but metaphorically.

What is the point of metaphorically renouncing something?

To get to the ultimate "Truth" every word, every concept, every idea, everything that can be clung onto, every security has to be dropped.
Even the concept of God.

Quote from: "fdesilva"p.s I also read someware that hebrew does not have to many words as such word like hate has more than one meaning based on context

As far as I am aware all of the New Testament is written in Greek not Hebrew. The old Testament may be different.

Quote from: "Sophus"

QuoteWhat Jesus is pointing to here is that you must renounce everything, even that which you hold most dear.
Not in a physical way but metaphorically.

Got to be honest.... that doesn't make it sound any better. "Renounce everyone but me." That's not love. That's narcissism. That Jesus quote sounds like something a cult leader would say.

Jesus turned ego on it's head, the Me for Me becomes Me for You. Jesus is not saying literally follow the man. He is saying embody this principle "Me for You" which is personified in Jesus. It is the opposite of egotism and also banishes any notion of narcissism. Jesus was not a cult leader he lead by example healing the sick mentally and physically, sharing everything with everybody and accepting those who where rejects in society.
You probably have heard this before but just in case...........Love, is like a flower that gives it scent to the good and the bad or the rain that wets the good and the bad. When good and bad is discriminated it is no longer Love.

Quote from: "noquarter"

Quote from: "pinkocommie"What is the point of metaphorically renouncing something?

To get to the ultimate "Truth" every word, every concept, every idea, everything that can be clung onto, every security has to be dropped.
Even the concept of God.

How is this renouncing in any way metaphorical is my question.  I don't think it's possible to metaphorically renounce something.  Either you renounce it or you don't.  Anyway, I don't think your apologist interpretation of the quote is correct.

Quote from: "elliebean"It was the concept (not the word) that Pinko was referring to. Still arbitrary. Still tacked-on.

Redundant in a word I'd use.

Are you saying god is consciousness, or something to that effect? Why can't consciousness be consciousness?

The concept or the word is arbitrary to Pinko and of course cannot be "tacked-on" without his wishes.

The word and concept is redundant to you, nevertheless, it is still a valid word and concept to a majority of people on this planet and so cannot be disregarded.

God is All, consciousness is part of All.
Consciousness is consciousness.

Quote from: "noquarter"Jesus turned ego on it's head, the Me for Me becomes Me for You. Jesus is not saying literally follow the man. He is saying embody this principle "Me for You" which is personified in Jesus. It is the opposite of egotism and also banishes any notion of narcissism. Jesus was not a cult leader he lead by example healing the sick mentally and physically, sharing everything with everybody and accepting those who where rejects in society.
You probably have heard this before but just in case...........Love, is like a flower that gives it scent to the good and the bad or the rain that wets the good and the bad. When good and bad is discriminated it is no longer Love.

Which is percisely why one cannot love and worship something. It's one or the other. Love says through my love for you I love all. To "love" one thing more than any other is not really love. It's a symbiotic attachment.
I don't agree with the first half of your interpretation. You'll have to argue it more to convince me of it because from here it seems like a massive stretch. It reads plain as day.

Quote from: "noquarter"God is All, consciousness is part of All.
Consciousness is consciousness.

I'm not convinced you know what the word consciousness is intended to describe.

But as they say...oh no!  Someone is wrong on the internet!

Quote from: "noquarter"To get to the ultimate "Truth" every word, every concept, every idea, everything that can be clung onto, every security has to be dropped.
Even the concept of God.

How do you know that? Have you yourself dropped every word, every concept, every idea, everything that can be clung onto, every security, even the concept of God?

Quote from: "noquarter"God is All, consciousness is part of All.
Consciousness is consciousness.

All is all.


Whether one calls it 'god' is irrelevant, as long as one makes it clear what one means. Thus god is still redundant.

Quote from: "elliebean"Thus god is still redundant.

In your humble opinion, yes, but to the vast majority God is a necessary truth and therefore cannot be disregarded.

Quote from: "noquarter"

Quote from: "elliebean"Thus god is still redundant.

In your humble opinion, yes, but to the vast majority God is a necessary truth and therefore cannot be disregarded.

Oh come on now, that is a silly thing to say.  The vast majority of people used to think that the Earth was the center of the universe.  There certainly are times where the opinion of the vast majority can 100% be disregarded.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is all. Consciousness is a part of all. Therefore your consciousness comes from the FSM, even though I've not proven his existence, merely defined him.

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "noquarter"To get to the ultimate "Truth" every word, every concept, every idea, everything that can be clung onto, every security has to be dropped.
Even the concept of God.

How do you know that? Have you yourself dropped every word, every concept, every idea, everything that can be clung onto, every security, even the concept of God?

Are you going to answer this, noquarter? Or not?

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "i_am_i"

Quote from: "noquarter"To get to the ultimate "Truth" every word, every concept, every idea, everything that can be clung onto, every security has to be dropped.
Even the concept of God.

How do you know that? Have you yourself dropped every word, every concept, every idea, everything that can be clung onto, every security, even the concept of God?

Are you going to answer this, noquarter? Or not?

Sorry, I missed your post.

Yes

Quote from: "noquarter"

Quote from: "elliebean"Thus god is still redundant.

In your humble opinion, yes, but to the vast majority God is a necessary truth and therefore cannot be disregarded.

Humble it may be, but an opinion it is not.

An opinion would have been stated more along the lines of something like: "IMO, god is a not a concept worth proving or disproving."

Quote from: "Sophus"Which is percisely why one cannot love and worship something. It's one or the other. Love says through my love for you I love all. To "love" one thing more than any other is not really love. It's a symbiotic attachment.
I don't agree with the first half of your interpretation. You'll have to argue it more to convince me of it because from here it seems like a massive stretch. It reads plain as day.

I do not recall mentioning worship or having to chose between love and worship, I could be wrong.
You don't have to agree with me and I am not here to argue with you or try to convince you but to clarify misunderstanding that have arisen.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "noquarter"God is All, consciousness is part of All.
Consciousness is consciousness.

I'm not convinced you know what the word consciousness is intended to describe.

But as they say...oh no!  Someone is wrong on the internet!

You are probably correct.

Quote from: "pinkocommie"

Quote from: "noquarter"

Quote from: "elliebean"Thus god is still redundant.

In your humble opinion, yes, but to the vast majority God is a necessary truth and therefore cannot be disregarded.

Oh come on now, that is a silly thing to say.  The vast majority of people used to think that the Earth was the center of the universe.  There certainly are times where the opinion of the vast majority can 100% be disregarded.

What would you expect from an ass?
Some people think it still is.