Happy Atheist Forum

why should i pretend that i respect about other peoples religious beliefs. i know that some people get really offended when i mock their religion, but i don't care, i think it's a f*cking riot that they believe the things they do. my area is almost HALF creationist. i know there is such a thing as "common courtesy", but i really, honestly, don't care.

Because you want them to respect yours and not beat you to a bloody, atheist pulp.

[/thread]

Quote from: "quizlixx"why should i pretend that i respect about other peoples religious beliefs. i know that some people get really offended when i mock their religion, but i don't care, i think it's a f*cking riot that they believe the things they do. my area is almost HALF creationist. i know there is such a thing as "common courtesy", but i really, honestly, don't care.

I can absolutely Identify with you on this ... my official position is that I respect anyone's right to believe what they wish but not the belief itself unless they can justify it in rational terms (that pretty much applies to everything BTW, not just religion ... I don't think many ideologies, pseudo-sciences and other stuff can be rationally justified either). I say "official" because the truth is I don't respect people for holding such views at all, not deep within myself, don't see why I should ... of course when any of these flakes  bring those views into the public domain any pretence at respect ceases.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Because you want them to respect yours and not beat you to a bloody, atheist pulp.

What so fear? Is (and I'm assuming that was not just cynicism) that a good reason?

Kyu

Someone once said that you should respect a man's religion only to the extent that you respect his belief that his children are smart and his wife beautiful. I see no need to run around yelling "Your religion is bs! Become an atheist!". I think everyone has a decision to make for themselves. It is only when a person's beliefs are damaging to those around them that I will speak up, or if they initiate a debate on an internet forum or IRL.

Quote from: "Lila"Someone once said that you should respect a man's religion only to the extent that you respect his belief that his children are smart and his wife beautiful. I see no need to run around yelling "Your religion is bs! Become an atheist!". I think everyone has a decision to make for themselves. It is only when a person's beliefs are damaging to those around them that I will speak up, or if they initiate a debate on an internet forum or IRL.

Personally, i prefer debate. I do not like confrontation. It makes me go all wobbly. I don't cast my radical views unless asked for (radical to a devout christian etc). I guess it stems from my need to not be purposefully offensive. An example of this would be the two people spreading the word of the gospel on my doorstep last Saturday. I could have debated with them. I could have even shouted at them. Instead i simply said no thank-you and closed the door. Apart from the fact that i was in the middle of a mining session on eve online, i really didn't feel the need to make someone uncomfortable or unhappy.

I don't think it is about respecting someones belief, i feel it is about respecting the need to not make someone uncomfortable or upset. I don't like knowing i've upset someone, no matter what their belief system.

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"What so fear? Is (and I'm assuming that was not just cynicism) that a good reason?

Kyu

Of course it's not a good reason. It's just a reason. There are other more philosophical, ethics-based reasons (which have been eluded to already), but in daily life where people can get dragged behind a truck just because they put their penises in nontraditional places or happen to have a bit more melanin in their skin, I think the reason is valid.

It's all about strength in numbers: they have it; we don't. I think even the most fledgling atheist has seen with painful clarity what religious folk with numbers on their side, feeding off one another's bigotry and xenophobia, can do when fired up. Never forget that we (that is, atheists) represent everything that is wrong and corrupt in the world to those who use religion as their lens.

You really don't have to respect anyone's beliefs, but you should be smart enough or strong enough to defend yourself against the inevitable shitstorm that follows.  I personally try to adhere to a relatively respectful stance towards other religions in the real world, although I do not just stay silent and make small, subtle protests here and there.  Most likely these protests are ineffective, but maybe not.  Privately, however, I am not going to sit in my home and curb my disgust with these idiots.  Also online, I try to keep the perspective of where I am posting, but I'm much less polite.  In open forums I am more respectful, but not always.  Here I type whatever delicious blasphemy can pour forth from my keyboard and relish in the fact I have a place to do so.  There are times I feel bad about being nasty, I mean religious people do have feelings, too, but it usually only lasts until I drive past a HUGE cross, Judeo-Christian Commandments monument or some offensive fire and brimstone church sign.

Quote from: "LARA"Also online, I try to keep the perspective of where I am posting, but I'm much less polite.  In open forums I am more respectful, but not always.  Here I type whatever delicious blasphemy can pour forth from my keyboard and relish in the fact I have a place to do so.

Yes, I admit is is much easier to be colder and harder online.

Quote from: "LARA"There are times I feel bad about being nasty, I mean religious people do have feelings, too, but it usually only lasts until I drive past a HUGE cross, Judeo-Christian Commandments monument or some offensive fire and brimstone church sign.

Like "God Hates Fangs" ...

... oops, that's from my latest fav series  

Kyu

It is getting increasingly difficult to respect others' beliefs.  I try to because I want them to respect mine, but when theirs are being used to make laws that affect me and when it is used in political campaigning and when I'm constantly told I'm evil and am cursed... I have to draw the line.

Behind closed doors, I'm the ugly American.  I hold some pretty black thoughts in my pretty little head.  But they are mine and mine alone, and if I can't voice them to the mirror in the privacy of my own home, when can I?  Holding them all in has given me an ulcer, so I vent when I need to, I just try to do it in private or with the hubby, whose thoughts can be even blacker than my own.  :)

I'm only willing to respect another person's beliefs to the point that they respect mine (and aren't causing harm to society/the freedom of others).  If someone start spouting off about how gays are bad and shouldn't marry I'm usually one of the first to start pointing out the flaws in their view.  If they start complaining about prayer being taken out of school I correct them (kids can still pray if they want).  If they say Merry Christmas I don't make a big deal out of it.  I think it is important, both for getting along with others and for my on sanity, to pick my battles wisely.

I will not disrespect your beliefs if those beliefs are not causing me any head aches. I will respect your beliefs if I see something in them worthy of my respect.

Trying to keep it simple  

I believe in order to expect respect, you have to show it.  Whether you respect their beliefs or not, showing a little diplomacy will help in the long run.  One of my best traits is knowing what others should do even though it conflicts with my own actions.  I may be destined for the clergy.

I know many of you are thinking, "this guy's a genius" or "most of what he says doesn't make sense to me so it must be over my head or avant garde".  That's nice of you to say, thank you, but I really don't want to be labeled.  I would rather assimilate with the masses so as to not be persecuted for my geniusness.

Quote from: "DennisK"I would rather assimilate with the masses so as to not be persecuted for my geniusness.

Really?!   I very much like being the mad scientist type, while being a mainstream type... Well, it sucks. Different people, different tastes, I suppose.

Quote from: "quizlixx"why should i pretend that i respect about other peoples religious beliefs. i know that some people get really offended when i mock their religion, but i don't care, i think it's a f*cking riot that they believe the things they do. my area is almost HALF creationist. i know there is such a thing as "common courtesy", but i really, honestly, don't care.

Curious, did you get your name from a stand-up comic. I was watching a special with him in it. I can't think of his name...

If you demand people to respect your beliefs then of course you should respect theirs. Most theists actually do have good intentions believe it or not.

Quote from: "Sophus"If you demand people to respect your beliefs then of course you should respect theirs. Most theists actually do have good intentions believe it or not.

So... If I don't give a flying duck about their intentions, can I demand that they don't give a flying duck about mine?  

If you demand that I respect your beliefs, you AND your beliefs will lose any chance of anything even remotely resembling respect from me for a long, long time.

Quote from: "Asmodean"If you demand that I respect your beliefs, you AND your beliefs will lose any chance of anything even remotely resembling respect from me for a long, long time.

Agreed. Respect is to be earned, not demanded and given freely. That goes for parents, teachers, politicians and especially religious figures.

Quote from: "Sophus"If you demand people to respect your beliefs then of course you should respect theirs. Most theists actually do have good intentions believe it or not.

I believe most theists have intentions.  I also think they feel they are on the side of 'good'.  From that perspective, yes, most theists have good intentions.

Quote from: "DennisK"I believe most theists have intentions.  I also think they feel they are on the side of 'good'.

So did Hitler.   Good intentions are, at the best of times, worth much less than one, simple action.

I'm also sure that those who pray for others (say in the event of a major disaster) have good intentions but I a somewhat sceptical as to what that achieves apart from making themselves feel good ... I'm not trying to be nasty or anything but it's hard to not be derisive (is that the word?) when I see reports like that on TV.

Kyu

I think respect creates stubbornness and arrogance. I find it hard to respect anyone or anything not because there's nothing in it for me but I think that if you give someone respect they may lose sight of reality. If they are wrong it will be more difficult for them to demolish their foundation because of so much support through respect. I think respect in the wrong hands is the root of many flaws mixed with pride. Look at religion for example. I know to some respect doesn't mean anything but others let it get to their heads. It's is quite flattering and silly just treat everyone fairly until they prove that they are unworthy of fair treatment. People do make mistakes and it's great when they can admit they are wrong. That way everyone can learn from the experience.

Quote from: "Graham"I think respect creates stubbornness and arrogance. I find it hard to respect anyone or anything not because there's nothing in it for me but I think that if you give someone respect they may lose sight of reality. If they are wrong it will be more difficult for them to demolish their foundation because of so much support through respect. I think respect in the wrong hands is the root of many flaws mixed with pride. Look at religion for example. I know to some respect doesn't mean anything but others let it get to their heads. It's is quite flattering and silly just treat everyone fairly until they prove that they are unworthy of fair treatment. People do make mistakes and it's great when they can admit they are wrong. That way everyone can learn from the experience.

You're right that it is the root of why it is difficult to challenge religious views openly ... I've talked to family members about religion in what I consider to be the same kind of tone I'd talk about politics, you don't get disproving looks for saying things about politics, you seriously do for views on religion.

Kyu

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Sophus"If you demand people to respect your beliefs then of course you should respect theirs. Most theists actually do have good intentions believe it or not.

If you demand that I respect your beliefs, you AND your beliefs will lose any chance of anything even remotely resembling respect from me for a long, long time.

Everyone asks for respect. I have noticed on here many complaints about how theists do not respect your beliefs. If you expect it of them then why shouldn't they expect it of you? Respect is not bowing down to someone it is simply showing that you ackownledge their rights as a human being. Just earlier I noticed a post in the Philosophy area about a theist taking an atheists child to church without permission and we atheists became outraged, critical and whiney toward this womans disrespect for us. I think you simply mistake respect for surrendering.

Even if you think respect is something to be earned then the only way you can earn it is to give it.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "DennisK"I believe most theists have intentions.  I also think they feel they are on the side of 'good'.

So did Hitler.   Good intentions are, at the best of times, worth much less than one, simple action.

Really? Do you think he actually had good intentions? Or was his mode of thought far too removed for such a simplistic view to be applicable?

Quote from: "Sophus"Everyone asks for respect. I have noticed on here many complaints about how theists do not respect your beliefs.

Demanding respect and asking not to be disrespected are two completely different things. The fact that I do not disrespect someone does not mean nor imply that I respect them.

Not being disrespectful is common courtecy, being respected is a privilege given for for example ones actions and/or attitude

Quote from: "karadan"

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"

Quote from: "DennisK"I believe most theists have intentions.  I also think they feel they are on the side of 'good'.

So did Hitler.   Good intentions are, at the best of times, worth much less than one, simple action.

Really? Do you think he actually had good intentions? Or was his mode of thought far too removed for such a simplistic view to be applicable?

I believe Hitler thought he was right, that he was doing the world a favour (especially when it came to "The Jewish Problem") so yes, in his view (and that of many others at the time) he had good intentions.

Kyu

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Sophus"Everyone asks for respect. I have noticed on here many complaints about how theists do not respect your beliefs.

Demanding respect and asking not to be disrespected are two completely different things. The fact that I do not disrespect someone does not mean nor imply that I respect them.

Not being disrespectful is common courtecy, being respected is a privilege given for for example ones actions and/or attitude

Respect is nothing more than the antonymn of disrespect. If you are not disrespecting someone then you are in fact respecting them.

Quote from: "Sophus"Respect is nothing more than the antonymn of disrespect. If you are not disrespecting someone then you are in fact respecting them.

Actually, it's the opposite. If you respect someone, you do not disrespect them. But you do not respect nor disrespect someone if you are, for instance, indifferent to them. By your logic, if something isn't black, it's white. Personally, I like my greens and reds and shades of gray.

Do I respect bus driver Bob? No. Why would I, I don't even know him. By the same, I do not disrespect bus driver Bob.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Sophus"Respect is nothing more than the antonymn of disrespect. If you are not disrespecting someone then you are in fact respecting them.

Actually, it's the opposite. If you respect someone, you do not disrespect them. But you do not respect nor disrespect someone if you are, for instance, indifferent to them. By your logic, if something isn't black, it's white. Personally, I like my greens and reds and shades of gray.

Do I respect bus driver Bob? No. Why would I, I don't even know him. By the same, I do not disrespect bus driver Bob.

Agreed. It's a continuum of sorts. (This isn't perfect, just an illustration.)

From from middle: level of knowledge about X, where left on the line is level of dislike for X, and right on the line is level of likability.

Disrespect <--> Tolerance <--> Ignorance <--> Disinterest <--> Respect

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Agreed. It's a continuum of sorts. (This isn't perfect, just an illustration.)

From from middle: level of knowledge about X, where left on the line is level of dislike for X, and right on the line is level of likability.

Disrespect <--> Tolerance <--> Ignorance <--> Disinterest <--> Respect

Indeed. This is what I was trying to demonstrate with my color reference. We make a good tandem, Cat  

Quote from: "Asmodean"Indeed. This is what I was trying to demonstrate with my color reference. We make a good tandem, Cat  :beer:

With all due respect (ha ha) you couldn't be more wrong.

Respect    tr.v.
  -To avoid violation of or interference with

You avoid this by not disrespecting. In a sense, the act of respect is more about what you're not doing than it is what you are doing.

I feel we are only talking semantics here.

Quote from: "Sophus"With all due respect (ha ha) you couldn't be more wrong..

I have to disagree if only for pure English grammar reason ... disrespect relies on the concept of respect for its meaning and the opposite so in essence respect is the default and disrespect when you don't do it ... um ... I think that makes sense (scuttles away).

Kyu

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"(scuttles away).

*Drags back*

Come sit on the tandem with me and Cat  

Respect is earned, the same goes for disrespect.

The way religion has gotten a free ride trough out history and the way it has misused it's position do not warrant respect in my eyes. Not to forget after centuries of mistakes paid in blood and suffering, it has the audacity to still claim to be the moral compass for humanity. I can respect the individual even if we differ on these issues, but I can not respect a belief system that has so utterly failed in every aspect

Okay, okay, I'll put an end to the semantics.

Oxford English Dictionary to the rescue (again)! (Behind spoiler 'cause they're big.)

Respect
[spoiler:39hn0cso]Respect (noun)
I. In phrases (usually) without article.
       These are chiefly direct adoptions of L. uses, as habere respectum, respectu, sine respectu.

    1. to have respect to:    a. To have regard or relation to, or connexion with, something.

    b. To have reference, to refer, to something.

    2. to have respect to:    a. To turn to, refer to, for information. Obs.

    b. To have an eye to, to give heed to, by looking at. Obs.

    c. To give heed, attention, or consideration to something; to have regard to; to take into account. Also const. ellipt. with that. (Cf. 13.)

    d. To have in view; to allude to.

    3.    a. in respect of, in comparison with. Obs.
  Common in the 16th and 17th centuries.

    b. So in (or to) the respect of. Obs.

    c. Also in respect to.

    d. in respect, in comparison. Obs.

    4. in respect (of):    a. With reference to; as relates to or regards. Also with the.

    b. In view of, by reason or because of. Obs.

    c. Considering, seeing, since (that).

    d. In case. Obs. rare{em}1.

    e. With respect to something. (Cf. 7b.) rare.

    5. for (the) respect of:    a. For the sake of, because of.    b. In respect of. Obs.

    6. without respect:    a. Without discrimination or consideration. Obs.

    b. Without consideration of, or regard to, something. Also const. ellipt. with what.

    7. with respect:    a. Relatively; in due proportion. Obs. rare.

    b. With reference or regard to something.

    c. In regard of something. Obs. rare{em}1.

    II. 8.    a. An aspect of a thing; a relative property or quality; a relationship. Obs. (Common in 17th c.)

    b. A particular, a point, a detail. Only in phrases with in, as in all, many, or some respects, in this respect, etc.

    9. A relationship of one person or thing to another; a reference to some thing or person.    a. In phr. to have a (..) respect to.

    b. In other uses. Also with betwixt.

    10.    a. Relationship; reference. Obs.

    b. Bearings, results. Obs. rare{em}1.

    III.    11. A respite. Obs. Cf. RESPET(T n.

    12.    a. Appearance, aspect. Obs. rare.

    b. A view; a backward survey. Obs. rare.

    13. a. Regard, consideration. Const. of or to.

    b. Discrimination, partiality, or favour in regard of persons or things. (Cf. PERSON n. 13.)

    c. Heed, care, attention. Obs.

    d. pl. Attention or consideration given to more than one point or matter. Obs.

    e. An opinion or view. Obs.

    14. a. A consideration; a fact or motive which assists in, or leads to, the formation of a decision; an end or aim. (Very common in 17th c.)

    b. With for. (Common c 1550-1650.)

    IV.    15. ? Dread, fear. Obs.

    16. a. Deferential regard or esteem felt or shown towards a person or thing.

    b. The condition or state of being esteemed or honoured.

    c. Rank, standing; station in life. Obs.

    d. a coach (or litter) of respect, ? one used on occasions of state. Obs.

    e. with (all due) respect and varr.: a polite phr. expressing proper deference, freq. used before stating (with some insistence) disagreement with another person's views. Also const. to.

    17. pl.    a. Deferential or courteous attentions; actions expressive of respect for a person; politenesses, courtesies. Obs.

    b. Deferential salutations. Obs. rare{em}1.

    c. In complimentary formulæ, usually conveying a message expressive of regard or esteem.

    d. to pay one's respects, to show polite attention to a person by presenting oneself or by making a call.

    V. 18. Comb., as respect-inspiring, -worthy adjs.

Respect (verb)
1. trans. To respite; to put off, neglect. Obs.

    2. To regard, consider, take into account. Obs. (In common use c 1560-1660.)

    b. To heed, pay attention to; to observe carefully. Obs. (Frequent c 1575-1630.)

    c. To regard, consider, look upon, as being of a certain kind, etc. Obs. rare.

    3. To be directed to; to refer or relate to; to deal or be concerned with.

    b. In pres. pple. With reference or regard to.

    c. To resemble. Obs. rare{em}1.

    d. To relate to, as regards the effect or result produced. Obs.

    4. To treat or regard with deference, esteem, or honour; to feel or show respect for.

    b. To esteem, prize, or value (a thing). Obs.

    c. To treat with consideration; to refrain from injuring or interfering with; to spare.

    d. To toast; to drink the health of. Obs. rare.

    5. To expect, anticipate, look (for). Obs. rare.

    6. a. Her. Of charges: To look at, face (esp. each other).

    b. To regard; to look upon. Obs.

    c. To look towards (a certain direction); to face (a specified place). Obs.

    d. intr. To face or look to or towards. rare.[/spoiler:39hn0cso]
We seem to be referring to 16 when discussing "respect" as a noun, and 4 as a verb.

Disrespect (watch out, this one is huge)
[spoiler:39hn0cso]Disrespect (noun)
Want of respect, courteous regard, or reverence.

    b. With a and pl. An instance of this; an act showing disesteem or irreverence; ‘an act approaching to rudeness’ (J.). Obs.
Disrespect (verb)
trans. The reverse of to respect; to have or show no respect, regard, or reverence for; to treat with irreverence.

    Hence disre{sm}spected ppl. a., -ing vbl. n.[/spoiler:39hn0cso]

Well, I'll let you figure that one out for yourselves.  

I respect other people's beliefs until they try in any way to force them on others. I have zero respect for Christians and Muslims who try to force their religious restrictions on me.

That said, I can't help but privately believe that religious people are a bunch of misled sheep, having been one myself years ago. My respect is a construct designed to protect civil society.

Quote from: "Kyuuketsuki"

Quote from: "Sophus"With all due respect (ha ha) you couldn't be more wrong..

I have to disagree if only for pure English grammar reason ... disrespect relies on the concept of respect for its meaning and the opposite so in essence respect is the default and disrespect when you don't do it ... um ... I think that makes sense (scuttles away).

Kyu

You got the idea. It's determining the presence of something. It's either there or it isn't; there is no in between. You're either absent or present.

The first step to reasoning on a subject matter is to establish its definition. Asmodean's and Curio's initial perception of respect was just different from mine.

Quote from: "Wraitchel"I respect other people's beliefs until they try in any way to force them on others. I have zero respect for Christians and Muslims who try to force their religious restrictions on me.

I agree it becomes difficult to do then. Although you have to admit, we all (to a degree) try to hold some of our beliefs as something everyone should follow. It's easy to become passionate about.

Quote from: "Sophus"You got the idea. It's determining the presence of something. It's either there or it isn't; there is no in between. You're either absent or present.

You either respect someone/thing or you don't. And you either disrespect someone/thing or you don't. I see PLENTY of room for my greens and reds and shades of grey.

Would you that if I don't like something, I dislike it? Well, what if I never tasted it before? How then can I dislike it? Or what if I did taste it and thought oO(Meh...)? (here: like = want to eat it again someday, dislike = want to puke it all up all over the floor)

Sophus said, "I agree it becomes difficult to do then. Although you have to admit, we all (to a degree) try to hold some of our beliefs as something everyone should follow. It's easy to become passionate about."

I've got no problem with passion and discussion. I've got problems when they blur the line between church and state, or sin and law. It's when it ceases to be a matter of me following fair laws and my own good conscience and becomes their way or the stoning pit.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Sophus"You got the idea. It's determining the presence of something. It's either there or it isn't; there is no in between. You're either absent or present.

You either respect someone/thing or you don't. And you either disrespect someone/thing or you don't. I see PLENTY of room for my greens and reds and shades of grey.

Would you that if I don't like something, I dislike it? Well, what if I never tasted it before? How then can I dislike it? Or what if I did taste it and thought oO(Meh...)? (here: like = want to eat it again someday, dislike = want to puke it all up all over the floor)

As I said you are using the wrong analogy. It is about determing the presences of something rather than measuring something to a scale of like or dislike. Your analogy would of course apply to many, many other more complicated subjects. Which is good thinking because usually things are not just A or B. However, for reasons above, I believe this is not one of those cases.

Do I have respect for what I don't know? Or for someone I have never met? Sure. I respect the rights of millions of Americans who are complete and total strangers to me. And for that matter, everyone in the world.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Because you want them to respect yours and not beat you to a bloody, atheist pulp.

[/thread]

But most Christians don't respect our beliefs right off the bat, So why not return the favor?

I agree w/ quizlixx

Quote from: "nikkixsugar"

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Because you want them to respect yours and not beat you to a bloody, atheist pulp.

[/thread]

But most Christians don't respect our beliefs right off the bat, So why not return the favor?

Because then you're no better than they are.

I try to give respect for other religions, because I take seriously the religious allegation that there is no scientific reason for adopting science. Although, I usually like to point out that rejecting science allows one to believe whatever they want, so why not science?

Anyway, I've had peple who were really stupid challenge my atheism, and I've had people who were well meaning challenge it. To the former I have been completely disrespectful, and to the latter I have had good conversations and become friends with some of them. I think, however, that respect should be warranted when it is not obvious that they don't deserve respect. I don't think this applies to only religion. I think it applies to all things.

Although, it'd be pretty hard to respect a blade of grass. So maybe there is a range of shades between respect and disrespect?  

I almost agree with you on this. It seems completely foolish to me but I don't mock theist beliefs of any kind because most of my family are theists. How could I look down on them for a belief that they've had with them since they could talk; it's part of them and I respect them. Oh, and I try to control myself from mocking my friends too much because a jock changes from fun to cruel when you over do it.

The concept of religion respect contradicts with religion itself

If you have a religion X it means by default that religion B is fault, not only that it is a crime against your God
So respect is out of question here

But if you want other people to discuss your religion politely, you should do the same for them

Many people think that religion is like race or skin color or sex, they are mistaken, all of those things are not by choice, but religion is!

The most ludicrous idea I have heard here is that you should respect others beliefs because if you don't "you are as bad as they are."  What a crock of crap.  When somebody comes to your door and tries to convert you to their religion you should make every attempt to destroy their faith.  If you are polite, they never question anything, and head to the next house and maybe get one more for their team.  Outspoken religious people should get the same token of respect you would give someone who claimed to be psychic or alien abducted.  Your first words should be, "your an idiot."  This should be followed by mocking laughter.

On a more serious note.  Sometimes you might have to take action.  For example, lets say you're a volunteer crossing guard at an elementary school.  A car runs the intersection and hits a girl who happens to be part of a Christian Scientist family.  If her parents aren't there to refuse treatment would you put her in an ambulance?  I would.  If her parents were there and said no, would you allow them to let their child bleed out on the street?  I would fight like hell to get that kid to a hospital.  Screw their beliefs!  Idiocy should not be able to hide behind faith or "belief."

Quote from: "suntzu"The most ludicrous idea I have heard here is that you should respect others beliefs because if you don't "you are as bad as they are."  What a crock of crap.  When somebody comes to your door and tries to convert you to their religion you should make every attempt to destroy their faith.  If you are polite, they never question anything, and head to the next house and maybe get one more for their team.  Outspoken religious people should get the same token of respect you would give someone who claimed to be psychic or alien abducted.  Your first words should be, "your an idiot."  This should be followed by mocking laughter.

My wife doesn't like me doing that.

Quote from: "suntzu"On a more serious note.  Sometimes you might have to take action.  For example, lets say you're a volunteer crossing guard at an elementary school.  A car runs the intersection and hits a girl who happens to be part of a Christian Scientist family.  If her parents aren't there to refuse treatment would you put her in an ambulance?  I would.  If her parents were there and said no, would you allow them to let their child bleed out on the street?  I would fight like hell to get that kid to a hospital.  Screw their beliefs!  Idiocy should not be able to hide behind faith or "belief."

I absolutely agree.

Kyu

I think we should be respectful of other people by approaching discussions about religion in a civil manner.  Plus, being an asshole will make them not want to listen to what you have to say.  Like that old saying...you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

laetusatheos,

I understand the desire for civil and respectful conversation.  However, I look into history and see that there is very little precedent for it being effective.  For example, look at the plight of Native American during the development of this country.  Many of their beliefs about democracy and government were factored into our own constitution by the founding fathers.  They taught us how to farm and survive on the North American continent.  Then at every turn we took advantage of them.  We pushed them off their land, moved them countless times, and ultimately destroyed what once had been a great civilization.  All through this persecution many nations tried, respectfully, to right the wrongs done against them using our own system of justice to do so.  There are cases where they would sue in court under our laws with legitimate claims only to have their cases thrown out because they weren't white Americans.  This was their technique for centuries until they were devastated to the point where it didn't matter anymore.  My point is that trying to "catch more flies with honey" or being "respectful" is only effective if your enemy sees you as an equal.  Theists, do not consider us to be their equals.  They think we are fools who just don't get it.

The reality is that we are superior to the theists, at least in ideology.  Theists beliefs don't deserve respect, they deserve ridicule.  We must make religion like racism.  Children should be embarrassed of the attitudes their parents hold concerning religion.  People should check to make sure no one is looking before they bow their head in idiotic prayer.  

As for this forum, I will stifle my rage and deal with theists in a respectful manner.  However, while I will treat theists respectfully, I will show nothing but disdain and contempt for the dog and pony show that they call faith.

Quote from: "suntzu"The reality is that we are superior to the theists, at least in ideology.  Theists beliefs don't deserve respect, they deserve ridicule.  We must make religion like racism.  Children should be embarrassed of the attitudes their parents hold concerning religion.  People should check to make sure no one is looking before they bow their head in idiotic prayer.  

Dude! Quiet down! You're going to give away the whole secret plan!  ;)

Quote from: "Darth Vader"Yes, yes... I can feel your anger

Quote from: "suntzu"The reality is that we are superior to the theists, at least in ideology.  Theists beliefs don't deserve respect, they deserve ridicule.  We must make religion like racism.  Children should be embarrassed of the attitudes their parents hold concerning religion.  People should check to make sure no one is looking before they bow their head in idiotic prayer.  .

While I understand your frustrations.  All the above would accomplish is essentially making us the white man and everyone else the ignored Native Americans.

QuoteAs for this forum, I will stifle my rage and deal with theists in a respectful manner.  However, while I will treat theists respectfully, I will show nothing but disdain and contempt for the dog and pony show that they call faith

All I ask is that you approach the conversations in a civil manner by avoiding personal attacks or unnecessarily combative language; that's how the rules are intended to define respectful.  It doesn't mean you can't express your opinion of the religion itself or rip their arguments into tiny pieces.  We're not asking you to respect religion.

i respect the person just not the religion. i always express how i feel about their ludicrous faith in a god but my friends are all god -loving people who keep trying to convert me to their faith thinking i'm vulnerable because i'm athiest. so someitmes we get into heated debates. most often its best to keep your opinion to yourself in those situations. but i prefer to express myself