Happy Atheist Forum

Corporal punishment is child abuse.  Parents may delude themselves that they are hitting the child for his/her own good, but there is always a better way to change a child's behavior.  Always.  

Some parents stop "spanking" their children when the children become big enough to defend themselves.  My mom didn't enjoy that lesson, but luckily she only had to learn it once.  Edit:  BTW, I was about 12 when I defended myself and I haven't hit a person since.

I am going to have to disagree with you guys (become I'm a "loose-cannon", this coming from a guy who is basically a fanatic) because I think spanking is a good way to discipline kids. I was a handful growing up, I was kicked out of Boy Scouts, Football, Karate, T-Ball, etc. because I was just too hyper and I recognized this now that I have grown up. I used to be a really weird kid. What helped me calmed down when I misbehaved was a good old ass-whooping from my dad and mom. I would never even dream of hitting my mom even as a grown man. And she would smack me in the mouth if I was disrespectful or cursed in front of her. I turned out quite alright.

Quote from: "Court"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "onlyme"I don't agree, I think there are 'perceived' strings, such as smacking a child, which is seen at the time as not being 'love', but which, from a mature point of view, DOES indeed represent unconditional love.

Wait a minute.   Did he just say that corporal punishment represents unconditional love?

I think so....I disagree, there is no reason to have to smack a child if they are raised properly.

Which is why I'm never having children.  :lol:

Me either, I actually kind of hate the little wretched shits anyway. Though I do like their TV shows when I'm drinking or smoking. You have to be on drugs to do that shit. Imagine little me's running around. To quote Marlon Brando "The Horror....the horror...."

depends on your definition of "spanking" and how mature the child is.

I think that if this is the 5th time your child has tried to pull the pan of boiling water off of the stove, a smack is appropriate.

Although Maricopa Medical Center has the best burn unit in the country, you don't want to spend any time there....believe me.

In certain circumstances, corporal punishment is appropriate, if used judiciously, and sparingly.

EDIT: I called my mom a bitch once...after I picked myself up off of the floor, I apologized and never called her a bitch again.

No, mommasquid, spanking is NOT child abuse.  Maybe you are in favour of all people, including little children, making up their own minds about how to live and conduct themselves.  Which they are incapable of at a young age.  That's why they have parents.  Glad that some people on here agree with me.   I thought I was the only sane one on here

I await the howling laughter......

But I stand my ground.

Also, in my younger, reckless schooldays, I HATED discipline.  It was only after a few spells in correction centres that I truly understood that discipline is a GREAT thing.  It's not meant to harm us, just to teach and train us.  But it depends on whether a person is receptive enough to understand that, or be an idiot all their lives.

Also, mommasquid, regarding, as you said, spanking is child abuse.  I think the opposite is true.  I don't know what it's like in the states, but in England, parents are now being stopped from spanking their own children, schools have abandoned discipline, courts no longer enforce the law against young people - no wonder they run riot!  We have given them every right, and the mature members of society NO rights!

This country is in decline because of this!

Like I said before...spanking is not necessary if the child is raised properly.  A child who was raised being spanked will view spanking as the only way to teach a kid.  I was not raised by spanking so I know that it is not necessary.  A stern voice and time outs are more than enough to get the kid to figure out what is bad.

I was spanked very little as a child and I see it as uneccessary. I was always sorry WAY before I was physically punished. I just figured it was my dad taking out some anger. Parenting should be more difficult than smacking your child every time they give you lip. Hitting is the easy way out, it seems.

Laetus, are you truly saying that a little spank is not conducive to good learning in a child?  Although there is a distinction between 'adult' and 'child' behaviour, I contend that even in the 'adult' world, physical discipline has value.  If, for example, I hit upon another man's wife, and he breaks my jaw, I will think twice next time, or if a neighbour catches me stealing his property and gives me a good hiding, I will also think twice next time.  I know this is a poor analogy, but childhood IS the learning stage.  if an adult can learn by extreme punishment, can't a child learn by gentle punishment?

A mature adult shouldn't have to get punched in order to know what he was doing is wrong...an adult know what he was doing is wrong well before violence becomes necessary.

And, yes, I'm saying that spanking is absolutely not necessary for teaching a child right from wrong or how not to harm themselves.

laetus, do you have kids of your own?

Quote from: "laetusatheos"And, yes, I'm saying that spanking is absolutely not necessary for teaching a child right from wrong or how not to harm themselves.

Unless you're too stupid to know how else to get your child to understand. Onlyme, do you honestly think that spanking is the only way?

Quote from: "onlyme"laetus, do you have kids of your own?

No, but I've worked in a day care and took care of other people's kids.  I was able to get kids to mind me without having to even smack their hand lightly.  All you have to do is get the kids to respect you as an authority figure and they will do what you say...sometimes it requires being firm, but does not require hitting.   We tell kids not to hit each other...what kind of standard does it set if we are hypocritical and hit the child?

Quote from: "laetusatheos"

Quote from: "onlyme"laetus, do you have kids of your own?

No, but I've worked in a day care and took care of other people's kids.  I was able to get kids to mind me without having to even smack their hand lightly.  All you have to do is get the kids to respect you as an authority figure and they will do what you say...sometimes it requires being firm, but does not require hitting.   We tell kids not to hit each other...what kind of standard does it set if we are hypocritical and hit the child?

Hitting kids? That's for weaklings and fools. Tasers are the way to go!

I apologize for my previous message. I would never Taser someone else's kids.













Unless they REALLY deserved it. :lol:









No, really. I wouldn't.


really


 :shocked:

Quote from: "laetusatheos"And, yes, I'm saying that spanking is absolutely not necessary for teaching a child right from wrong or how not to harm themselves.

It’s interesting that the men on this forum seem to be OK with spanking while the women are against it.  (Hurray, girls!)


I’ve never witnessed a child being spanked without anger, frustration, or laziness being a factor in the parent’s action.






Tasers, hmmm.
Taser Training Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CoLcIJo3TE&search=taser)

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"And, yes, I'm saying that spanking is absolutely not necessary for teaching a child right from wrong or how not to harm themselves.

It’s interesting that the men on this forum seem to be OK with spanking while the women are against it.  (Hurray, girls!)


I’ve never witnessed a child being spanked without anger, frustration, or laziness being a factor in the parent’s action.






Tasers, hmmm.
Taser Training Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CoLcIJo3TE&search=taser)

Heh-heh...

By the way, to set the record straight on men thinking spanking is ok:
I spanked my oldest son. Once, when he was four. Never again, and never any of my other three boys. The one and only time I did it was just plain wrong on my part, and the mistake was never repeated. We've been able to rear them without any corporal punishment. But it's amazing what taking away their privileges will do to gain co-operation.
 :lol:

Quote from: "mommasquid"I’ve never witnessed a child being spanked without anger, frustration, or laziness being a factor in the parent’s action.

Me either. I really am serious about not having children, and this is one of the reasons. I'm so impatient, I want to beat other people's children all the time, just from impatience and frustration.

Quote from: "McQ"By the way, to set the record straight on men thinking spanking is ok:
I spanked my oldest son. Once, when he was four. Never again, and never any of my other three boys. The one and only time I did it was just plain wrong on my part, and the mistake was never repeated. We've been able to rear them without any corporal punishment. But it's amazing what taking away their privileges will do to gain co-operation.
 :lol:

Bravo.  

Eh, I"m going to still disagree. I deserved the ass-whoopings I received. I misbehaved and acted out a lot and I think I didn't get fully what I deserved. Now I'm kind of worried about trying to become a cop after seeing that video. You know, I'll just be a postal worker, they carry guns around.

Quote from: "Court"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"And, yes, I'm saying that spanking is absolutely not necessary for teaching a child right from wrong or how not to harm themselves.

Unless you're too stupid to know how else to get your child to understand. Onlyme, do you honestly think that spanking is the only way?

Of course I don't think spanking is the only way, Court, but I do think it is 'sometimes' necessary to give a light spank.  I don't mean putting them over your knee and repeatedly hitting them, I just mean the odd, gentle slap on their legs or bottom or hand sometimes, when all else fails.  Also, it should only be used as a last resort.  I think anybody who goes through all other means first, then finds for the child's own safety, a gentle slap is necessary, should not be labelled 'abuser'.  A little spanking here and there never did me any harm, and actually was instrumental a lot of the time in preventing me from doing some things I would probably have otherwise done, if I'd known I could have gotten away with it.

Quote from: "McQ"I apologize for my previous message. I would never Taser someone else's kids.













Unless they REALLY deserved it. :lol:









No, really. I wouldn't.


really


 :shocked:

What's wrong with Tasering kids anyway?   It's the only way of keeping the little blighters in check, sometimes, especially OTHER people's kids.

.....am I thinking out loud again?

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"And, yes, I'm saying that spanking is absolutely not necessary for teaching a child right from wrong or how not to harm themselves.

It’s interesting that the men on this forum seem to be OK with spanking while the women are against it.  (Hurray, girls!)


I’ve never witnessed a child being spanked without anger, frustration, or laziness being a factor in the parent’s action.

Mommasquid, along with your list - frustration, anger, etc

you never mentioned another factor which comes into play in the scenarios I'm talking about - concern - concern for the child's safety, etc.

If I spank a child, it's not out of hate, laziness, 'losing it' etc, but concern, and realising that this is sometimes necessary.  Of course I always regret afterwards that it came to that, and explain that to the child, but I explain that I also thought it necessary in light of their continued, and often dangerous behaviour.  I still say a light spanking is better for the child than for them to run into the road and get killed, or injured in some other way.  Maybe I would class it as the lesser of two evils.





Tasers, hmmm.
Taser Training Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CoLcIJo3TE&search=taser)

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"And, yes, I'm saying that spanking is absolutely not necessary for teaching a child right from wrong or how not to harm themselves.

It’s interesting that the men on this forum seem to be OK with spanking while the women are against it.  (Hurray, girls!)


I’ve never witnessed a child being spanked without anger, frustration, or laziness being a factor in the parent’s action.

Mommasquid, along with your list - frustration, anger, etc

you never mentioned another factor which comes into play in the scenarios I'm talking about - concern - concern for the child's safety, etc.

If I spank a child, it's not out of hate, laziness, 'losing it' etc, but concern, and realising that this is sometimes necessary.  Of course I always regret afterwards that it came to that, and explain that to the child, but I explain that I also thought it necessary in light of their continued, and often dangerous behaviour.  I still say a light spanking is better for the child than for them to run into the road and get killed, or injured in some other way.  Maybe I would class it as the lesser of two evils.





Tasers, hmmm.
Taser Training Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CoLcIJo3TE&search=taser)

Quote from: "onlyme"mommosquid:  Yes, corporal punishment (a light slap) CAN be included in unconditional love, if it's done with the intent of teaching the child and securing his safety. Is a lesser effective alternative better?

MikeyV: of course you can be a 'loose cannon' too.  Seems there are a lot of loose cannons on here, and I sometimes think I'm the only SANE person here.

It reminds me of a fairytale I heard as a kid, can't remember how it went exactly, but it was something about a wicked witch poisoning the well, and everybody in the village, except one, drank from the well and became insane.  Well, they all thought that the 'sane' person was insane, because they were all of one mind, and eventually the sane person got fed up and drank the water himself, then became insane.  The result was that all the other people exclaimed...'Oh, look (so and so) has regained his sanity at last!'

Well, I'm keeping my sanity!  Ha ha

I'm sane.  I'm sane.  I know if I keep telling myself this, I will be alright.  
I'm sane.  I'm sane.  ... la de dah, dee da dum, la la dee

Quote from: "McQ"We've been able to rear them without any corporal punishment. But it's amazing what taking away their privileges will do to gain co-operation.

In my pedagogy classes, we've always learned to use the "least" principle. Basically, if a kid is acting up in class, use the least amount of punishment (and, as an added bonus with teaching, the least disruptive) possible, because over-punishment will simply make the kids disrespect you.
When I was spanked as a child, lesser punishments would have made me behave just as well. In fact, spanking only made me afraid of my parents. Taking away certain priveliges makes the child fear the punishment, not the punishers, which is more healthy, I think.

Quote from: "Court"In fact, spanking only made me afraid of my parents.

Taking away certain priveliges makes the child fear the punishment, not the punishers, which is more healthy, I think.

Well said.

I had a girlfriend that insisted on being spanked, and I can attest that it did not change her behavior one bit.  Ok, ok, no! The problem with spanking is that it is almost always accompanied by anger, and that means fear is the response.  Fear may prevent a repeated action, but is a terrible result, especially if it then seeps into other areas of the child's behavior.

Chris:  Yes, I agree with you, if it's done through anger and a loss of control on the part of the parents.  But threatening to take away sweets, toys, etc, if the child repeatedly ventures near a busy road, for example, is not a good way of ensuring the child's safety.  Something more drastic is required.  It may seem 'cruel' at the time, but if it saves the child's life, then, as I said before, maybe it's the 'lesser of two evils'

Only me, my experience is that I have never witnessed corporal punishment exerted without anger, except once...when my step-father beat me, coldly and thoroughly.  I assure you, I learned nothing except hatred.  In theory, it sounds reasonable.  In practice...I will say I don't know if it is possible.  I have my doubts.

You may have your doubts, Chris, but a 'softly, softly' approach, allowing young children to make decisions for themselves, which WE should make for them as parents, can have catastrophic consequences.  Are you a parent yourself?

I love my children, and would do anything to protect them.  I know I can't always do that - cushion them from the evils of this world - but I will do what I can.   If a 'smack' saves them from something more dangerous, then I will take that option.  Don't you agree?

I have a better way to teach kids not to go into a busy street.  Take a watermelon (or some other melon) and get someone else to drive a car.  Tell the child to watch the watermelon, as the other person drives along the road roll the watermelon into the street.  The child will then notice that thing that go into the street get hit by cars and smashed.  Explain to the child that the same could happen to them if they run out in the street.  If a kid understands why it's bad to go into the road, he won't be so inclined to run out there.  Pointing out road kill would have the same affect, but a watermelon isn't as grusome.

Laetus, that might work with slightly older children, who are capable of understanding.

My good friend not too long ago had a young boy who ran into the road, was hit by a van and killed instantly.

The parents are devastated - the child is DEAD

I don't intend for that to happen to someone who I am responsible for.  A slap is better than being mown down by a car.  I'm not a cruel person.

The thing is, we grown ups know the dangers inherent in everyday life.  A child doesn't.  They must be prevented at ALL costs from venturing into a situation which could result in serious injury, or death.  And, yes, as I said before, this is unconditional love on our part.

Onlyme...no longer...all grown...and they were step, and youngest was 6 when I entered the picture.  If you can do it, fine....your children, your decision.  It's tough though...but I wish you well.  I like Laetus's suggestion.

onlme....my point is that spanking doesn't teach the child why it's bad to go in the road, it only scares them momentarily.  If the child is too young to understand something as simple as cars will smash you like they will any other item, then they aren't going to be able to understand that they were being spanked for running into the road and will do it again.

Quote from: "laetusatheos"I have a better way to teach kids not to go into a busy street.  Take a watermelon (or some other melon) and get someone else to drive a car.  Tell the child to watch the watermelon, as the other person drives along the road roll the watermelon into the street.  The child will then notice that thing that go into the street get hit by cars and smashed.  Explain to the child that the same could happen to them if they run out in the street.  If a kid understands why it's bad to go into the road, he won't be so inclined to run out there.  Pointing out road kill would have the same affect, but a watermelon isn't as grusome.

Quote from: "onlyme"Laetus, that might work with slightly older children, who are capable of understanding.

All the examples and suggestions in the world are not going to convince this guy to stop hitting his children.  

We tried and failed.  

(Sorry Connor and Jessica.)  

Quote from: "laetusatheos"onlme....my point is that spanking doesn't teach the child why it's bad to go in the road, it only scares them momentarily.  If the child is too young to understand something as simple as cars will smash you like they will any other item, then they aren't going to be able to understand that they were being spanked for running into the road and will do it again.

I know what you're saying, laeuts, but I disagree that it's only momentarily.  I remember as a kid, swearing at my dad.  Well, he chased me all over the house, and when he caught me, he spanked me.  I never did it again.

I think this is something that must be drummed into them constantly, not just once, then it becomes engrained in them, and not momentarily.

I think the safety of children is paramount at all costs.  Surely you don't think that a light slap is the same (cruelty) as allowing them to embark on dangerous activities.  I know you don't.  

To be honest, though ( and I may be wrong here), atheists, because they are in favour of personal liberties at all costs, are sometimes guilty of extending this belief/practice too far, in my opinion.

As I said in an earlier post, in this country at least:
 
Parents are prevented from smacking their children
Schools are prevented from disciplining children
Courts are prevented from punishing children/juveniles

No wonder the kids run amok.

And we are reaping what we have sown.  With all the youth crime, children divorcing their parents, and exerting their 'rights', etc.

I don't think this is a good thing.  Children are still learning, and need to be guided by (sensible) adults.  Otherwise, we are letting them down, giving them too much freedom, and endangering them, ourselves, and society as a whole.

I'm with mommasquid...I give up.  I've explained why spanking is not necessary to teach or protect the safety of a child...there isn't anything more I can say about it that would change your mind.

Ok, mommasquid and laetus

You think I am a cruel, abusing parent, who thinks it is right and proper to 'hit' kids

I can't convince you of my side of the story either, but at least I will do what it takes to protect and teach my kids what is necessary to keep them safe in this dangerous world.

I may be wrong.  Time will tell.  But I have my kids to think about.  As I said earlier, a 'smack' is preferable to more serious injury.

I love my kids.  I HATE hitting them, and I only do so OCCASIONALLY, when I think it is ABSOLUTELY necessary.  I don't hit my kids for the fun of it, or for a power trip, or to 'lord it over them', or because I've 'lost it'.

I only want what's best for them.  Again, I say, a smack is better than serious injury, or them getting into trouble in the future, which is what I, myself, did.

Hitting kids?  I HATE violence, as I said earlier.  ESPECIALLY towards kids!

Am I a bad parent?  If you think I am, I will get my kids on this forum to speak for themselves.  Just please say the word.

I am not angry, here, by the way, just confused that people don't see the validity of discipline regarding children.  As God said, 'discipline seems hard at the time, but with patience, produces a harvest of righteousness.'

Quote from: "Big Mac"I am going to have to disagree with you guys (become I'm a "loose-cannon", this coming from a guy who is basically a fanatic) because I think spanking is a good way to discipline kids. I was a handful growing up, I was kicked out of Boy Scouts, Football, Karate, T-Ball, etc. because I was just too hyper and I recognized this now that I have grown up. I used to be a really weird kid. What helped me calmed down when I misbehaved was a good old ass-whooping from my dad and mom. I would never even dream of hitting my mom even as a grown man. And she would smack me in the mouth if I was disrespectful or cursed in front of her. I turned out quite alright.

Yes, Bigmac, you are a loose cannon.  Ha ha.  I like that title. But, yes, I must admit I do have to agree with you on what you say, once again.

You may be a loose cannon, but you speak a lot of sense in my opinion.  Maybe being a loose cannon is not such a bad thing, after all.

and this coming from a fanatic.

You may be a brown assed, goose stepping, illegal immigrant, who sneaked into America by stealth and deception, who doesn't speak good english, but maybe you're not so bad after all.  Ha ha (only kidding).

Mommasquid:  c'mon...I mean..per-leeze!

Spanking is not the same as child abuse.  OK, I see a lot of the things you mention myself in everyday life, here where I live...people hitting, swearing, shouting at their kids for NO real reason...and this really gets my goat. But are you really lumping caring parents in with these selfish, angry, arrogant lot?  I think not!

Don't you agree that a balance can be reached and implemented by caring parents, who have no desire to abuse or harm their children, but only to teach them to respect others, and keep safe themselves?

I truly, eagerly await your response.

Mommasquid:  Interesting avatar.  It reminds me partly of a UK TV series (tales of the unexpected), partly of James Bond and partly of Tomb Raider.  What DOES it represent, if anything?

Or are you not divulging?

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "laetusatheos"I have a better way to teach kids not to go into a busy street.  Take a watermelon (or some other melon) and get someone else to drive a car.  Tell the child to watch the watermelon, as the other person drives along the road roll the watermelon into the street.  The child will then notice that thing that go into the street get hit by cars and smashed.  Explain to the child that the same could happen to them if they run out in the street.  If a kid understands why it's bad to go into the road, he won't be so inclined to run out there.  Pointing out road kill would have the same affect, but a watermelon isn't as grusome.

Quote from: "onlyme"Laetus, that might work with slightly older children, who are capable of understanding.

All the examples and suggestions in the world are not going to convince this guy to stop hitting his children.  

We tried and failed.  

(Sorry Connor and Jessica.)  

mommasquid, you don't need to apologise to our connor and jessica.  I hit my children maybe twice or three times a year.   It's not a regular thing, you know.  Maybe you should come over and see how I treat my children, then you would understand.  You are quite welcome at any time.  I will give you my address if you email me.  Unfortunately, I can't pay for your flight, but I will accomodate and feed you.   Failing that, I will put my children on the webcam, and you can see them in cyberspace.

Onlyme, you did not really use God as a defense.

Quote from: "onlyme"As God said, 'discipline seems hard at the time, but with patience, produces a harvest of righteousness.'

God also dashes infants against rocks and throws his non-believing "children" into an eternal fire. I don't plan on taking parenting advice from him.

Court, but don't you see:  we are all deserving of being 'dashed against the rocks, and being thrown into eternal fire'

It is only by the Grace of God that we are not.  I think this is where child/parent relationships really come into play.  Should we, as 'children', presume to tell our Creator what is good for us, what we want, what we are going to to, etc?

If we think we are qualified to teach our children what is good for them, then we, as 'children of God' should listen and learn from God, our Father and Creator.

I know you will disagree.  That is your perogative.  I, for my part, will choose to listen, and hopefully, to learn.

Why are we deserving? God made us, so that either means god is inherently flawed or he doesn't exist. And don't try to use  the fruit off that tree as an excuse. God knew damn well mankind would do that so it's his fault for making that tree to begin with. I just don't get WHY he made it in the first place. Who the fuck was going to fucking eat off it anyway?

I think, Bigmac (and I'm not being dogmatic here, cos I don't know), that God did indeed know that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit....BUT...and here's the clincher...BUT he also provided a way 'before the foundation of the world', as He said, for our salvation for all who would believe in His Son.  Therefore it makes sense to me to believe.  After all, what other hope do we have?

On another note, you said something earlier in another post about 'chugging' water in the army.  I don't know what chugging means, but were you in the army at one point, Bigmac?

That's needlessly complicated and unnecessary. And oddly it sounds like a classic cult.

I was in the Army briefly, and I got out before fighting Bush's religious and economic war. Chugging means you're drinking really fast. Often people who are chugging against each other will have people around them chanting, "Chug, chug, chug, chug, chug, chug!" I miss shooting the weapons in the Army. I guess I have to find a "special" dealer.

That's great, Bigmac.  I didn't agree with Bush's war either.  But I greatly admire the ordinary soldiers who lay their lives on the line, in defence of their country and fellow citizens, even though the war is not of their making and choosing.  There is no wage packet that compensates for taking a bullet in my opinion, and I couldn't do it, especially if it's an unjust war.  Personally, I think they should have taken Saddam out the first time around, in gulf war one,  and saved us all this trouble and double standards regarding intelligence and fabricated weapons of mass destruction, etc.  They had a much better, and morally valid case back then, I think.

But, as a soldier, who took the brave step you did, you have just gone up in my estimation quite a few notches.  This will probably not mean anything to you, especially coming from me, but there you are.

Eh, being a soldier isn't as great as it's cracked up to be.

Of course it's not all cracked up to be, Bigmac, that is exactly my point.  It is not all honour and glory, but drudgery and danger and a host of other unpleasant things.

But those who, for one reason or another, whether misguided or not, find themselves thrust into this unhealthy situation, do a great, unselfish and brave job, which is NOT appreciated by the population in general, and deserve our support, if not for their beliefs, then at least for their unselfish effort, putting themselves in a dangerous situation which is not understood or even considered by the vast majority of the 'stay at home' suburban dwelling masses.

I'd like to see most of these people subject themselves to such hardships before criticising these people.

BTW, you're still a brown-assed, salsa guzzling illegal immigrant, but you've earned a little respect, anyhow.  Ha ha

Quote from: "onlyme"Court, but don't you see:  we are all deserving of being 'dashed against the rocks, and being thrown into eternal fire'

It is only by the Grace of God that we are not.

I'll never get this perspective. God made us flawed, devises a punishment for these flaws, and then gives us a chance to be forgiven for the flaws (which we have through no fault of our own) by his "mercy". Give me a break.
Haven't you read Frankenstein? Do you really think the monster is to blame for his cruelty? Hell, no. It's all Dr. Frankenstein's fault.

So, you'd be okay with God dashing your kids against rocks, considering how deserving of it they are?

court wrote:
"So, you'd be okay with God dashing your kids against rocks, considering how deserving of it they are?"

Of course not, court.  But I know that death awaits us all. Even for our kids.  If there is any hope at all to be had, I will take it.  Death, whether it is dashed against a rock, or hit by a car, or whatever.  We are all vulnerable and susceptible to it.  Since Jesus is the only one who rose from the dead, and therefore offers us hope, I will put my hope in Him.

Some hope is better than no hope.

Quote from: "Chris"Onlyme...no longer...all grown...and they were step, and youngest was 6 when I entered the picture.  If you can do it, fine....your children, your decision.  It's tough though...but I wish you well.  I like Laetus's suggestion.

Chris:  sorry, mate, I can't follow your drift here.  Please clarify.  It doesn't make sense to me.  That's not surprising, as I said before, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box...but  what does it mean?.....

"..no longer...all grown...and they were step, and youngest was 6 when I entered the picture. "??

onlyme.  It means that he married a person who already had kids.  By the time he got married to that women her youngest child was 6 years old already.  Now all the children are grown up and moved out of the house.

Quote from: "onlyme"Of course it's not all cracked up to be, Bigmac, that is exactly my point.  It is not all honour and glory, but drudgery and danger and a host of other unpleasant things.

But those who, for one reason or another, whether misguided or not, find themselves thrust into this unhealthy situation, do a great, unselfish and brave job, which is NOT appreciated by the population in general, and deserve our support, if not for their beliefs, then at least for their unselfish effort, putting themselves in a dangerous situation which is not understood or even considered by the vast majority of the 'stay at home' suburban dwelling masses.

I'd like to see most of these people subject themselves to such hardships before criticising these people.

BTW, you're still a brown-assed, salsa guzzling illegal immigrant, but you've earned a little respect, anyhow.  Ha ha

Well I didn't nor do I ever want people's support when I joined the military. I despise this "Support Our Troops" nonsense. THough I have to admit, Mustang Ranch really stepped up and offered a free tryst to every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine. Now that's what I'm talking about. In reality, I am a mercenary at heart. I joined the military for college money and for the experience needed to go and work for Black Water or various other PMC's (Private Military Contracter). Like my profile says, I'm a hired gun. If the cause and money is decent enough (IE, I'm mowing down generally bad people and getting paid well for it) then I'm all for it. I don't want your admiration, respect, awe, or thanks. I did it for cold hard dead-presidents.

Fair comment, Bigmac

But I still admire all the other soldiers who are where they are (I agree, because of cold, hard presidents), and who feel they are neglected or unappreciated.  I can't agree with you that supporting our troops is nonsense, even though I disagree with the reason for the war.

Quote from: "Big Mac"

Quote from: "onlyme"Of course it's not all cracked up to be, Bigmac, that is exactly my point.  It is not all honour and glory, but drudgery and danger and a host of other unpleasant things.

But those who, for one reason or another, whether misguided or not, find themselves thrust into this unhealthy situation, do a great, unselfish and brave job, which is NOT appreciated by the population in general, and deserve our support, if not for their beliefs, then at least for their unselfish effort, putting themselves in a dangerous situation which is not understood or even considered by the vast majority of the 'stay at home' suburban dwelling masses.

I'd like to see most of these people subject themselves to such hardships before criticising these people.

BTW, you're still a brown-assed, salsa guzzling illegal immigrant, but you've earned a little respect, anyhow.  Ha ha

Well I didn't nor do I ever want people's support when I joined the military. I despise this "Support Our Troops" nonsense. THough I have to admit, Mustang Ranch really stepped up and offered a free tryst to every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine. Now that's what I'm talking about. In reality, I am a mercenary at heart. I joined the military for college money and for the experience needed to go and work for Black Water or various other PMC's (Private Military Contracter). Like my profile says, I'm a hired gun. If the cause and money is decent enough (IE, I'm mowing down generally bad people and getting paid well for it) then I'm all for it. I don't want your admiration, respect, awe, or thanks. I did it for cold hard dead-presidents.

I joined for the fame, glory and especially, for the chicks.





Those assholes lied to me about the chicks.

and the fame....and glory....

:-P

Quote from: "onlyme"Fair comment, Bigmac

But I still admire all the other soldiers who are where they are (I agree, because of cold, hard presidents), and who feel they are neglected or unappreciated.  I can't agree with you that supporting our troops is nonsense, even though I disagree with the reason for the war.

A lot of soldiers I know can't stand hearing that garbage. Even my supervisor at work was in the Army for 7 years and we joked about how much we hated when people would come up to us and say "THANK YOUUUUUU" like some retarded child. I didn't want people's thanks, I wanted them to leave me the fuck alone. Especially children, man I hated hearing them come up to me so much. I was tempted to head butt a couple to make a point.

As you can tell I basically hate kids.

Of course its obvious you hate kids, Bigmac, but would it feel any better for you if I said:

Then go and get your sorry, brown ass blown to smithereens, and who gives a toss when you are crying for your mother with your legs blown off?  If you are truly in it for the money, that is, if you can blow some other mother's son away because it pays well, then you deserve all you get when it goes pear shaped for you.,

It can't happen to you?

Ok.

This is just a hyptothetical sutiation, mind you.  But it COULD happen, and probably WILL happen, given enough time and circumstancees.

Which scenario do you prefer?

Eh, like I said, if the money and the  cause is decent enough, I'll do it. Besides the people they would most likely put me up against probably had it coming to them. I'm a high-mach, so you have to think like me to understand me.

Quote from: "onlyme"... when it goes pear shaped for you...

What the hell does that mean?

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "onlyme"... when it goes pear shaped for you...

What the hell does that mean?

Nothing, like the rest of his posts, it means nothing. Onlyme is quite crazy. He's an admitted thug (though I suppose I could be classified as the same since I admit my mercenary tendencies) who believes something that happened 2,000 years ago has to be true while something that happens now is false.

No, Bigmac, I admitted I WAS something of a thug.  Past tense.
What does high-mach mean, BTW?

Mommasquid: pear-shaped means when its kinda gone all wrong, or gone 'belly-up' or all gone out of order.  We use it a lot in England.

Quite crazy, Bigmac?

no, I'm SANE....I'm SANE...SANE I TELL YOU!.. You can't prove it!  I'm SANE....la la de da dee dum

Alright, whatever onlyme.

A high-mach is a rather cynical and calculating person. I've generallly lost my faith in humanity since I was a very young child. I've always been calculating when I was a kid and focusing on alliances that would be the most profitable.