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Space Travel / Split From "THIS WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER! [etc.]"

Started by Old Seer, June 21, 2020, 05:13:16 PM

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Old Seer

Ho boy, well. It's not going to change anything for me. What I see here is a real boatload of superstitious based nonsense.
For one thing--- You're basing some points in your religion from science fiction movies. It is impossible for aliens from another planet to be here. The distances are to great to travel those distances in any reasonable life time to have made the trip to here. If we can't get there, they can't get here. UNLESS one uses the common denominator application of "Super Smart Aliens, (to solve problems) but being the laws of physics are the same everywhere in the universe extraterrestrials have no better chance of they getting here then we have of getting there. There's nothing in the universe that is super, as nature cannot out-do itself.
Science fiction being around for about 100 years gets floks over time used to those ideas and at some point it all comes true, not so. The periodic table here is the same as there, and from what can be known there os no material that can last the trip because of the great cosmic sanding belt would wear the space craft away long before arrival here.
Sorry about that, but if God wanted aliens here he would have made the universe smaller.








Moderation edit:

This post and the ensuing thread have been split from "THIS WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!(Atheists Proven To Be Satanic)Hell-Low/Hello". The OP here is a response to the OP of that thread.


- R


The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

Randy

There is something else, Old Seer, our little planet looks like a blue dot from Pluto. Finding us from another star system would be astronomical. I don't know that they'd do much better than we can finding exoplanets that have life.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

Tank

Quote from: Randy on June 21, 2020, 06:38:50 PM
There is something else, Old Seer, our little planet looks like a blue dot from Pluto. Finding us from another star system would be astronomical. I don't know that they'd do much better than we can finding exoplanets that have life.

We are close to being able to do spectroscopy of the atmospheres of exoplanets. If aliens are looking at us with more advanced capabilities they'd be very likely to determine there is life here and probably technological industrialisation.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Recusant

Quote from: Old Seer on June 21, 2020, 05:13:16 PM
Ho boy
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
 


No sources cited for a passel of assertions. Anybody can play that game.  :lol:

I don't agree that it's "impossible" for extraterrestrial travellers to have visited this planet as some point in the past, nor that they may be here now. Such things are possible, spurious assertions about the laws of physics aside. However, I'd say the chance that either actually took place is infinitesimally small, by any realistic evaluation of the evidence.

I'd prefer that the chance that humanity or some successor will one day successfully travel beyond this solar system would be greater than the chance that this planet has been visited by extraterrestrial travellers, but at this point that doesn't appear to be significantly more likely.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


No one


Old Seer

Quote from: Recusant on June 21, 2020, 07:32:39 PM
Quote from: Old Seer on June 21, 2020, 05:13:16 PM
Ho boy
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
 


No sources cited for a passel of assertions. Anybody can play that game.  :lol:

I don't agree that it's "impossible" for extraterrestrial travellers to have visited this planet as some point in the past, nor that they may be here now. Such things are possible, spurious assertions about the laws of physics aside. However, I'd say the chance that either actually took place is infinitesimally small, by any realistic evaluation of the evidence.

I'd prefer that the chance that humanity or some successor will one day successfully travel beyond this solar system would be greater than the chance that this planet has been visited by extraterrestrial travellers, but at this point that doesn't appear to be significantly more likely.
Einstein established one cannot travel the speed of light, which would be needed to get anywhere in the universe , and yet it would take to long and one's craft would be disintegrated by interstellar matte, dust etc. Ueing conventional fuel would take 1000s of years to get to the nearest star. Convention fuel is capable of reaching about 100,000 mph. Chemical fuels need to be to much to be practical. I'll look it up. Why do you think I'm playing games. Being a physicist don't you suppose I'd know.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

Old Seer

The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

Randy

Old Seer is it possible to fold space in front of a ship so that it isn't moving faster than the speed of light but just seams like it? I know it sounds kind of Trekkish, but a few years ago I read that it might be. Granted, the amount of gravity it would take would be prohibitive with gravity being the weakest force.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

Old Seer

So far those ideas are still theories, and probables. Gravity relative to matter may forbid the process. IOW. the device needed would have to remove it's own gravity to cause a warp in time and space.  With every object in the universe attracting all other objects it doesn't seem likely that a device that can cancel time can also cancel space. Trying to get to the speed of light is (for an explanation) like a boat moving through water but the water doesn't go around the boat. The boat pushes the water ahead of it but at some point the water gets to much to push and then an equilibrium comes into play were counter force is equal to power applied. Or. the same as --the faster the speed the heavier the object gets until finally it cannot go faster. (Infinite mass)
Then there's the problem of space matter in the way at any high velocity. If a 3 ft circumference pipe were set up in space all the matter in the pipe over distance would block the view to the other end. The space craft would hit everything in the pipe on it's way to a destination. Striking anything at the speed of light would cause an explosion similar to what happens in a particle collider. The higher the velocity the less able to steer. It would become impossible to avoid objects in space. The aliens would have no different material choices then we. There is no magic material in the universe.  :)
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

Randy

I wasn't quite sure how such a device could work. In order to achieve interstellar travel, it would need a gravity well like that of a giant star or perhaps even a black hole. It would have to fold space in front of it, jump across the fold, and expand it in back thereby cheating. The amount of distance is now small so that normal speed would be sufficient. This is something well beyond our ability.

I would surmise that any alien craft capable of doing such a thing wouldn't be interested in our back water world. I doubt we'd have anything important to offer.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson
"Some people focus on the destination. Atheists focus on the journey." -- Barry Goldberg

Old Seer

They'll have to wait until space travel gets to be more of a norm. The actual test would have to be in space, but experiments can be made for the time being. There are magnet so powerful that they can float anything whether metal or not. I sen an experiment that had a frog floating in a magnetic bowl, and no apparent harm to the frog. I would think that level of magnetism would cause the brain to short out. But nope, little hoppy seemed normal.  So, we have one insight on a possibility.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

Old Seer

Quote from: Tank on June 21, 2020, 07:00:11 PM
Quote from: Randy on June 21, 2020, 06:38:50 PM
There is something else, Old Seer, our little planet looks like a blue dot from Pluto. Finding us from another star system would be astronomical. I don't know that they'd do much better than we can finding exoplanets that have life.

We are close to being able to do spectroscopy of the atmospheres of exoplanets. If aliens are looking at us with more advanced capabilities they'd be very likely to determine there is life here and probably technological industrialisation.
Yes. A spectrographic analysis can show many aspects of materials at great distances. Different materials , as you very likely know, show different patterns for different gasses and liquids especially. IE- A spectro analysis can tell what gold came from what mine if there is a previous available sample. So is the same for reflected light from any source. 
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

Recusant

Quote from: Old Seer on June 21, 2020, 07:51:42 PM
Quote from: Recusant on June 21, 2020, 07:32:39 PMNo sources cited for a passel of assertions. Anybody can play that game.  :lol:

I don't agree that it's "impossible" for extraterrestrial travellers to have visited this planet as some point in the past, nor that they may be here now. Such things are possible, spurious assertions about the laws of physics aside. However, I'd say the chance that either actually took place is infinitesimally small, by any realistic evaluation of the evidence.

I'd prefer that the chance that humanity or some successor will one day successfully travel beyond this solar system would be greater than the chance that this planet has been visited by extraterrestrial travellers, but at this point that doesn't appear to be significantly more likely.
Einstein established one cannot travel the speed of light, which would be needed to get anywhere in the universe , and yet it would take to long and one's craft would be disintegrated by interstellar matte, dust etc. Ueing conventional fuel would take 1000s of years to get to the nearest star. Convention fuel is capable of reaching about 100,000 mph. Chemical fuels need to be to much to be practical. I'll look it up. Why do you think I'm playing games. Being a physicist don't you suppose I'd know.

You've probably heard of the concept and either forgot about it or have dismissed it for some reason of your own. No need for hypothetical exotic physics, or even anything much beyond our present capability, if we devoted the resources to it.

"Generation ship" | Wikipedia

QuoteA generation ship, or generation starship, is a hypothetical type of interstellar ark starship that travels at sub-light speed.

Since such a ship might take centuries to thousands of years to reach even nearby stars, the original occupants of a generation ship would grow old and die, leaving their descendants to continue traveling.

[usw]
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Old Seer

One main problem for generational starships is inbreeding. Eventually there can end up a crew incapable of operating ships components. Or, the inbreeding causes genetic changes that no longer allows for survival of the crew. 

It still remains- hitting an asteroid the size of a basketball ends the whole project.

Another- ships components wearing out.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

Recusant

Legitimate concerns. Nothing in the laws of physics prevents them from being addressed.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken