Suicide

[Sweetdeath]

^wow, that's a really interesting, but sad story.

[AnimatedDirt]

My point is not offend any person(s) who've dealt with suicide either on the personal side or knowing a friend/family member that has/is, but anyone who fails at "suicide" is not really serious, but simply wanting attention. (not attention in the simplistic meaning).

Am I being insensitive in having this opinion?  I'm not trying to be insensitive.

[hismikeness]

Am I being insensitive in having this opinion?  I'm not trying to be insensitive.

I don't think that is insensitive. In fact, with the work I did with the troubled youths, those that "attempted" and failed just internalized it as "one more thing I suck at." It was really sad. One kid tried to overdose by drinking mouthwash.  ??? So it's not exactly a gun in the mouth that is off center and you blow the non critical side of your skull off and survive... I've heard those kinds of stories and don't think those are cries for help, but drinking mouthwash is.

[Davin]

My point is not offend any person(s) who've dealt with suicide either on the personal side or knowing a friend/family member that has/is, but anyone who fails at "suicide" is not really serious, but simply wanting attention. (not attention in the simplistic meaning).

Am I being insensitive in having this opinion?  I'm not trying to be insensitive.

I don't think it's offensive, but I'm not offended by very much. Without any statistics to cite, I'll put my foot in my mouth and say that most people who fail are seeking attention. But I'm also sure that some people just don't yet know how to do it with a higher chance for success (death in this case) and some people are caught in the act and foiled merely because of urgent medical treatment.

"Life's a bitch until you die... then some asshole brings you back."

So shooting from the hip and not having any attachment whatsoever to it, I agree with the statement generally.

[AnimatedDirt]

So it's not exactly a gun in the mouth that is off center and you blow the non critical side of your skull off and survive... I've heard those kinds of stories and don't think those are cries for help, but drinking mouthwash is.

Agreed.  I meant in general.  If someone really wants to die, there are ways to do it to make sure you get what you want.  I'm sure some of the crys for help also 'fail' in that they probably didn't really want to die.

(edit) or exactly as Davin mentions above, damn emergency services and other do-gooders that "foil" the plan.

From a Christian perspective, (if I may for a moment) to commit suicide is basically saying there is no hope.  Nothing can help (not even God) and only my own death can fix or be rid of the issue.  I dare say, while Christ knew exactly what He was doing, He did die the death of a sinner which I believe is proven by His own words; "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"  He felt alone and abandoned.  He died feeling separated fully from God the Father.  This is one reason (aside from nothing really being mentioned in the bible about suicide) that I hold the belief that suicide is forgivable.

[Stevil]

Do you think Christianity's teachings that suicide is a sin, is a hindrance or something that helps humanity?

[Stevil]

 This is one reason (aside from nothing really being mentioned in the bible about suicide) that I hold the belief that suicide is forgivable.

Oh, is that right?

Why do I have the perception that Christians think suicide is a mortal sin?

[Sweetdeath]

My point is not offend any person(s) who've dealt with suicide either on the personal side or knowing a friend/family member that has/is, but anyone who fails at "suicide" is not really serious, but simply wanting attention. (not attention in the simplistic meaning).

Am I being insensitive in having this opinion?  I'm not trying to be insensitive.

Not offensive at all. In fact, aside  from medical reasoning, I think most suicides (especially teenage) are done by attention seekers.  I kinda snicker at their unsuccessful attempts. I   mean, it's not That difficult to off yourself.

[Sweetdeath]

 This is one reason (aside from nothing really being mentioned in the bible about suicide) that I hold the belief that suicide is forgivable.

Oh, is that right?

Why do I have the perception that Christians think suicide is a mortal sin?

I've heard it's because only god should decide when you die or someyhing. *rolls eyes*

Guess god didn't factor in murderers,kidnappers, rapists, and P.O.W camps.

In order in escape becoming a sex slave   in a lot of war ridden s tories, most women would kill themselves.   Nothing fucking wrong with that.  This has hppened all over the world.

[AnimatedDirt]

Do you think Christianity's teachings that suicide is a sin, is a hindrance or something that helps humanity?

Neither.  (unless I'm missing your point) In general, the state of mind that leads up to suicide is internal.  (as I view the issue)  After the fact, everyone seems to be oblivious that there was a problem.  There may be one or two that can say afterward something to the issues that may've contributed, but I think most suicides come as a surprise to the surviving family and friends.

Oh, is that right?

Why do I have the perception that Christians think suicide is a mortal sin?

Anyone that singles out suicide (or any other sin for that matter) as a mortal sin, is a bit ignorant to what sin is.  Going into Christian belief here; Any sin not covered by Christ's blood (while literal in a sense, but symbolic in nature) is a mortal sin.  Again to clarify, there is only one sin that is pointed out as a mortal sin that cannot be forgiven.  That being the sin of ignoring God up to and including ignoring God so much that one no longer hears the "still, small voice". 

[Sweetdeath]

Ignoring god is a sin?
And yet, he/she/it makes no actual physical attempt to get involved in the human world.  Hm.... :/   how interesting.

[Stevil]

Do you think Christianity's teachings that suicide is a sin, is a hindrance or something that helps humanity?

Neither.  (unless I'm missing your point)

Not trying to make a point, just trying to understand, I have some perceptions, but am looking for knowledge to replace them.
Do some religion's or denominations treat failed suicidee's poorly, as if they are sinners?

Again to clarify, there is only one sin that is pointed out as a mortal sin that cannot be forgiven.  That being the sin of ignoring God up to and including ignoring God so much that one no longer hears the "still, small voice". 

Nothing personal against you AD, I know you are just clarifying a Christian statnce, but i think the requirement of blind belief is laughable. Only an unjust god could jjudge people on that.

[xSilverPhinx]

AnimatedDirt, two questions:

If suicide for those who really want to carry it out because they see it as the only possibility or as Medusa said, just don't want to live to suffer anymore, were something that's "bad" or wrong in god's eyes, then wouldn't god "say" something in something a bit more noticeable to that person than a "still, small voice"?

Secondly, I'm just curious to know why you think that (theologically) some Christians, such as the Catholics, consider suicide to be a sin? I think they take it to the extreme, not allowing things that I think are merciful such as euthanasia and so my disagreements with them are not based on theology because for me, they don't have to be.

I also don't think that your observation on suicide is insensitive.

[AnimatedDirt]

Ignoring god is a sin?
And yet, he/she/it makes no actual physical attempt to get involved in the human world.  Hm.... :/   how interesting.

I would beg to differ.  Not only has this God gotten involved, but the belief (and my reality) is that this God has already, and according to His own law, of which He is not guilty of breaking, gotten involved and paid the price He demands for sin.  But it is everyone's perogative to ignore and/or disregard as myth.  If it was proven beyond a shadow of doubt, you would no longer love, but would be then obligated to "love" as there is really no other position to take other than a position of eminent self-suicide.

Not trying to make a point, just trying to understand, I have some perceptions, but am looking for knowledge to replace them.
Do some religion's or denominations treat failed suicidee's poorly, as if they are sinners?

I can only speak of my own belief system, that of SDA's.  I don't know for sure as I have not been privy to this situation first-hand, but as a matter of general belief, I think most SDA's in general have the same belief on the "lostness" of a person who takes their own life.  I don't think anyone would treat a failed sucidee poorly, but maybe poorly in the sense of not understanding or fear.

Nothing personal against you AD, I know you are just clarifying a Christian statnce, but i think the requirement of blind belief is laughable. Only an unjust god could jjudge people on that.

What you call blind, I call having evidence I believe to be good evidence.  We differ on that only.  At the moment, you* cannot be judged as never knowing about God, because you* openly deny any diety (* you being the average Atheist, a general "you") including the Abrahamic God which many of the Atheists I've come into contact here at HAF take personal exception on His perceived actions or lack thereof and add to their disgust on God that even if God were to come down and prove Himself, they would not follow anyway.

[AnimatedDirt]

AnimatedDirt, two questions:

If suicide for those who really want to carry it out because they see it as the only possibility or as Medusa said, just don't want to live to suffer anymore, were something that's "bad" or wrong in god's eyes, then wouldn't god "say" something in something a bit more noticeable to that person than a "still, small voice"?

Two points here.

1.  I don't think even the Atheist belittles the "devil on our shoulder" as insignificant.  That 'still, small voice' isn't necessarily audible, but sometimes our minds hear things loud and clear that are not audible.  Sometimes, as we are speaking of here, things that drive someone to suicide are perceived problems with no solution that comes to mind and our mind is overrun with the problem which makes it so big, that they/we don't see any solution but suicide.

2.  I'm not certain, but at least in the historical record of the Bible, suicide seems to not be a societal issue.  If so, it may be that "Thou shalt not murder" is enough to cover the issue of suicide and cover whether suicide is a mortal sin or not.  Clearly we see murderers in the biblical accounts that have turned to God and He has received them as a parent would their beloved child.

Secondly, I'm just curious to know why you think that (theologically) some Christians, such as the Catholics, consider suicide to be a sin? I think they take it to the extreme, not allowing things that I think are merciful such as euthanasia and so my disagreements with them are not based on theology because for me, they don't have to be.

Because it is murder.  Self murder, but murder nonetheless.  It is a sin.  The more important question is whether it is a mortal sin.  I think I've covered my position on this.  Taking it to the extreme is not unlike the Israelites (Jews) of the OT that added rules in keeping God's Law(s).  None of which God ever uttered or wrote.  It's basic human nature.  As time goes on, we become more and more enlightened to the better interpretations.  Suicide is a sin.  No doubt.  Is it a mortal sin or a sin to fear more than say stealing a nickel?  No.  Sin is sin no matter its degree.  The smallest sin in the world can keep one out of salvation and likewise the biggest sin (aside from the unpardonable sin) cannot keep one from receiving the free gift of salvation through it's Mediator.

I also don't think that your observation on suicide is insensitive.

Whew...I was sweating that post after hitting <Post>