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General => Politics => Topic started by: Tank on December 12, 2021, 09:53:20 AM

Title: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on December 12, 2021, 09:53:20 AM
Russia on the border of Ukraine.
China testing the defences of Taiwan.
Iran close to a nuclear weapon.
Israel requesting bunker buster bombs from the USA.
The West effectively bankrupted by Covid.
Russia can close down Europe overnight by stopping gas supplies.

Any one of these would be serious on there own however we have all of these situations right here and right now. Not the safest time we have been in.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on December 12, 2021, 02:51:51 PM
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on December 12, 2021, 06:05:39 PM
:rofl:
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Magdalena on December 12, 2021, 08:48:09 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on December 12, 2021, 02:51:51 PM


:lol:
Excellent.

:postoday:
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Icarus on December 28, 2021, 02:53:53 AM
Quote from: Tank on December 12, 2021, 09:53:20 AM
Russia on the border of Ukraine.

Russia can close down Europe overnight by stopping gas supplies.

Any one of these would be serious on there own however we have all of these situations right here and right now. Not the safest time we have been in.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Davin on January 05, 2022, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on December 12, 2021, 08:48:09 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on December 12, 2021, 02:51:51 PM


:lol:
Excellent.

:postoday:
But have you heard it in minor key?
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Magdalena on January 06, 2022, 03:54:26 AM
Quote from: Davin on January 05, 2022, 10:57:36 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on December 12, 2021, 08:48:09 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on December 12, 2021, 02:51:51 PM


:lol:
Excellent.

:postoday:
But have you heard it in minor key?


Wait... :notsure:

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmrwgifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F01%2FDepressed-Woman-Takes-Happy-Pills-On-The-Simpsons.gif&hash=0333e061dde49f50077dd192cd39ef4a517b733a)

...Okay.  :)
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on January 22, 2022, 09:32:06 AM
Baltic states tout US-approved weapon shipments to Ukraine (https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/01/21/baltic-states-tout-us-approved-weapon-shipments-to-ukraine/)

The situation on the border of Ukraine is getting serious.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on January 22, 2022, 01:46:11 PM
messy there. putin isnt leaving himself a face saving out that i can see. nor is biden. the rest of nato seems ambivalent
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on January 22, 2022, 03:53:41 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on January 22, 2022, 01:46:11 PM
messy there. putin isnt leaving himself a face saving out that i can see. nor is biden. the rest of nato seems ambivalent

I suspect/hope that Russia and NATO/Europe will compromise on a neutral zone of countries that used to be the extension of the Soviet Union. These would neither be in NATO nor a resurgent Warsaw Pact. But we can only hope. Biden is no Kennedy and that is the worry.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on January 22, 2022, 05:01:11 PM
in the art of negotiating, there is a particular type known as "soviet style."

in soviet style negotiating, you begin with an extreme starting point. you stick with it. you use strategems to impugn the sincerity of your opponent, you accept good faith concessions on their part, but make none of your own. you make threats if your position isnt given special consideration. you claim ridiculous offenses against you as a means of shifting the balance in your favour. you refuse to accept other considerations as relevant to the negotiation. your frame the negotiation to favour your end point, and refuse to alter your stance in anyway that benefit your opponent. zero sum.

putin is a specialist at this. he set the stage last year by massing troops on the ukrainian border. then he waited for the west to get nervous and submitted his position: nato is to give up its core mission of defense against russia by backing the map up to 1990, cutting the warsaw pact countries loose by removing weapons of defense (against russia) and changing its internal policy of allowing anybody to join who wants to.

what putin has specifically demanded is a return to the cold war super power relation between america and russia than obtained until the fall of the USSR. putin doesnt want a stable international community to join. he wants the warsaw pact back, where russia can dictate the politics of its adjacent neighbors by threats and by force, in order to achieve a hegemony in the region.

note that putin wants negotiations between russia and the US, not between russia nd nato. he wants ukraine isolated as a satellite state without self-determination, and he wants the baltic and central european states returned to a russian sphere of influence.

this is diametrically opposed to nato's mission and opening position in the negotiation. so far putin has refused to compromise in any way, and by waiting out the europeans he hopes for france to cave first (they always do) and then for one of three things to happen:

-- nato sstates will cut a deal with him giving him soem or all of what he wants

-- he can invade some or all of ukraine, claim they started it, and accpet the consequences

-- he can confound the west by escalating a cyber campaign or a limited incursion that they wont want to fully respond to.

at the moment putin still has a month to escalate. armoured warfare in the crimea will become difficult when the ground thaws, so if hes going to invade he still has a window. nato is getting jittery and cracks are showing up--france is proposing a european solution without the us, and germany is denying ukraine use of nato munitions its donated.

putin nas nothing to lose for a month, and can decide which option to pursue sometim in late february. he has not allowed himself an out, so he has to do something aggressive to show he is not weak, no matter what the end game is. i predict a limitd invasion blamed on ukraine, with a subsequent annexation of a new buffer zone.

its all chess with putin, and hes using a gambit hes been successful with before.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on January 22, 2022, 05:04:53 PM
I agree with all of that.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tom62 on January 22, 2022, 06:31:33 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on January 22, 2022, 07:06:58 PM
its a shame about russia. when the ussr fell, there was a chance to welcome a new russia in as a friendly partner. but oligarchs and ex-KGB took over, and russia has charted its own path as an international mischief-maker rather than as a co-operative partner.

im not sure how the opportunity was missed, but missed it was. putin is 69 years old now and is trying to set the chess pieces up for gambits over the next decade or two. it remains to be seen just exactly where russia will go after him-- something new and prosperous, or more of the same international interference and ostracism
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Icarus on January 23, 2022, 01:48:23 AM
The ambitions of one man, Putin and his supportive associates, could eventually lead to nuclear holocaust.  That is a reality that none of wish to contemplate.

If Putin does win the deadly chess game, in Ukraine, then are the Baltic states and Finland next in line for annexation?  Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania only recently, in the 1990s, escaped Russian domination. Those are Nato nations.  Would NATO respond militarily if Russia chose to flex it's muscle in the Baltics?

Worrisome indeed.

Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tom62 on January 23, 2022, 10:06:59 AM
Here is an interesting analysis of what is going on and how things can develop in Ukraine. https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine (https://www.csis.org/analysis/russias-possible-invasion-ukraine)
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on January 23, 2022, 02:29:21 PM
another possibility suggested by the bbc.

russia supports a coup in which the government installs a pro russian puppet
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on January 23, 2022, 05:38:32 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on January 23, 2022, 02:29:21 PM
another possibility suggested by the bbc.

russia supports a coup in which the government installs a pro russian puppet

That's been playing a lot.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on January 23, 2022, 06:39:55 PM
not here in america, interestingly. we see things in a less nuanced manne, and all the american news sources arebusy analyzing how russia is going to mount a military incursion.

frankly, the sponsored coup is one that us boneheads here might be hard pressed to justify interference with. if they pick a native son to run the pro russia government, we ll have to decide whether its really ukraine or not. putin will have muddied the waters enough that if we invoke sanctions he can claim  to be the innocent party, while still getting what he wants. then he ll have a proven technique to use in the baltic.

the more i think about it, the likelier the sponsored coup seems
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: TheFightSong on February 01, 2022, 02:55:56 AM
Safety in any country will always be questionable considering my studies in human polemology.

As a bisexual who supports L.G.B.T. rights and democratic progressivism, Russia has no support from me.

As a person who cares about protecting freethought, free press, and online privacy via V.P.N's, China has no support from me.

Ukraine is not a place for human rights. Some people fled from that country to have protected human rights in different countries.

The west has been economically troubled before COVID started. America's rulers started economically bullying countries through their military-industrial complex and kleptocratically international trade policies. The Banana Republic situation was to make imported bananas cheaper in America by creating sweatshops that keep poor people poorer kleptocratically. America's rulers caused this because they care about their own wealth more than human rights for everyone.

Latin America has been plagued with drug addiction, crime, domestic violence against women, cartels, poverty, illiteracy, lack of modern S.T.E.M. jobs, and political corruption because of America's rulers' intervention. America's rulers corrupted Latin American countries. The C.I.A. was responsible for making Cuba become a communistic country that impoverishes most people in it. The C.I.A. did this by using corrupt and easily bribe-able Castro to change Cuba politically. Rich, famous, and politically powerful people in America get recreational drugs from the Mexican drug cartel. This is why Texas has a high rate of crime and becomes influenced by Mexico's misogynistic macho man culture. Because rich, famous, and politically powerful people in America are keeping Mexico corrupt with its Mexican drug cartel that sends recreational drugs to Texas. Drug trafficking continues to happen in America as a result.

Israel is ruled by warmongering bullies who bully Palestine for political power via trying to censor Palestinian journalists. I don't trust anyone who legalizes mandatory military conscription nor people that support it. The mandatory military conscription in Israel is why Israeli refugees left that country to live where no warmongering exists. Israel also keeps women subordinated through patriarchal Judaism by having male rabbis make females struggle to become rabbanits. Israel is not that progressive when it comes to female leadership. Not that I am considering it is a middle eastern country.

Iran and Syria continue to get bombed because America's rulers are economically dependent on wars. Otherwise, America's economy would be mostly destroyed. So instead of making a safe world, they make Earth become hell for profit and political power. Which is why Iran and Syria continue to have Islamic terrorism, misogyny, domestic violence against women, crime, destroyed infrastructures, refugees, etc.

Europe is at the mercy of these powerful countries ruled by corrupt men. Because Europe is doing nothing to create enough economic power and military power to successfully defeat foreign threats. Europe started to have increased crime and misogyny because of middle eastern refugees spreading their Islamic beliefs. So, human rights are being threatened in Europe as the Islamic beliefs are spreading out. This is what happens when America's rulers keep bombing countries with Islamic terrorism, then refugees migrate to vulnerable Europe without protected enough borders.

America and Russia are ruled by corrupt men that bully people for political power. There is also sex trafficking in both of those countries controlled by powerfully corrupt men that threaten females' safety. These countries are un-democratic and not very progressive compared to other countries. America has a federal republic government. Russia is authoritarian politically. Russia has federation government that lacks specific human rights, such as rights for the L.G.B.T. community. There are countries with more protected human rights than Russia and America do.

America's rulers are mostly contributing to global warming internationally. This is going to cause Russia, Iran, Syria, Israel, Ukraine, and America to be affected by this global warming. Fires, floods, droughts, threatened ecosystem, and other things will ensue as a result. America's rulers are also profitting from oil drilling. Which is causing people to die from earthquakes and hurricanes caused by oil drilling. Oil drilling is also causing oceanic pollution and threatened ecosystem.

The tipping point has already been tipped over. It has been tipped from the COVID recession globally, increasing global warming, endless wars, endless earthquakes, endless hurricanes, sweatshops that threaten human rights, women being vulnerable to dangerously cut-throat men who rule powerful countries, misogynistic religion making trillions of dollars, and other things in the name of profit for ultra-wealthy men who care about themselves and their wealth like the narcissistic leeches that they are on the inside. They are who have already led people to hell. It's hard to reverse this when they tasted enough power and don't want their competitive games ending anytime soon. I know about their competitive games and the confidential information they hide. Knowing their confidential information becomes easy once you know how predictable human nature is. But of course, they want lower class disposables who are not educated, smart, or wealthy enough to have resources for connecting the dots quickly. So, they have indoctrination schools for training disposable children from a lower class to be manipulated and less wealthy by ultra-wealthy men internationally. They do this in many countries. Very much access to knowledge and imagination has been exclusive to ultra-wealthy men only. They keep information such as recipes for drugs to kill yourself with hidden from the public as an example.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on February 11, 2022, 09:16:12 PM
I didn't know you were a polemologist! Do you have any photos of your dancing routines?
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on February 11, 2022, 11:09:58 PM
Quote from: TheFightSong on February 01, 2022, 02:55:56 AM
America's rulers are also profitting from oil drilling. Which is causing people to die from earthquakes and hurricanes caused by oil drilling.

ive worked off and on in the oil fields for fifty years, fightsong.

where are people dying from earthquakes caused by brine injection?

what is the connection between oil drilling and hurricanes? unless youre referring to climate change from fossil fuels in general?
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: TheFightSong on February 12, 2022, 02:05:53 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on February 11, 2022, 11:09:58 PM
Quote from: TheFightSong on February 01, 2022, 02:55:56 AM
America's rulers are also profitting from oil drilling. Which is causing people to die from earthquakes and hurricanes caused by oil drilling.

ive worked off and on in the oil fields for fifty years, fightsong.

where are people dying from earthquakes caused by brine injection?

what is the connection between oil drilling and hurricanes? unless youre referring to climate change from fossil fuels in general?
I don't know if you studied Earth science. But Earth's crust and below it get affected to get oil out. When those things are affected, it starts to move and shake. Hence, the earthquakes and hurricanes. Earth is geographically changing because of factors like oil drilling because it changes Earth's crust and things below that. If people stopped oil drilling, we would see less earthquakes and deaths caused by them. Oil companies don't really care about ethics nor Earth's well-being. So, deaths and pollution are an afterthought compared to profit making ultra-wealthy men wealthier than most people.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on February 12, 2022, 05:24:02 PM
Quote from: TheFightSong on February 12, 2022, 02:05:53 PM
I don't know if you studied Earth science. But Earth's crust and below it get affected to get oil out. When those things are affected, it starts to move and shake. Hence, the earthquakes and hurricanes. Earth is geographically changing because of factors like oil drilling because it changes Earth's crust and things below that. If people stopped oil drilling, we would see less earthquakes and deaths caused by them. Oil companies don't really care about ethics nor Earth's well-being. So, deaths and pollution are an afterthought compared to profit making ultra-wealthy men wealthier than most people.

yes, fightsong. i have a graduate degree in geology and worked professionally as a prospect geologist for exxon in the permian basin of west texas.

you are correct that the oil industry doesnt care about ethics or people, and never has. i no longer work there. but oil exploration has no significant effect on the earths crust and below.

the solid lithosphere composing the earths superficial crust and upper mantle is about 130 km thick. all the sedimentary, igneous, and metamorphic rocks preserved from th eformation of the planet are there, as are all the petroleum reservoirs and deposits of other fossile fuels such as coal and natural gas. nothing that human beings do on the surface of the earths crust has any effect on the mantle, and our effect on the crust is limited to 10 or 15000 feet.

earthquakes as a resut of fluid injection were fitst noticed in clorado in the 1960s, in old mine shafts. currently, disposal of oil field brines back into the formations they came from has a definite effect on shallow earthquakes, up to 4 or 5 in magnitutde, iirc. but i have yet to ever hear of a death in the united states resulting from an earthquake outside of the usual major fault zones, such as the san andreas. the last death i know of in th eunited states was during the risgecrest in 2019, when a jeep fell on a man who was working underneath.

there is no connection between weather and oil drilling except through the action of greenhouse gases and global warming. oil consumption contributes some 11 billion metric tons of CO2 to the atmosphere ever year, but coal is right in there at 11 billion as well i havent looked up methane. at any rate, china, not the united states, is the major contributor to global warming through burning of coal. china produces twce the greenhouse gases of the united states, and three times those of india.

just a reality check.


Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on February 12, 2022, 05:36:58 PM
Very interesting as usual.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on February 12, 2022, 05:53:10 PM
during the lomo prieta i was at work when it hit. lasted about 15 seconds but seemed longer. i worked as a documentations manager at a publishing company, and i ran into the vault while everybody else dove under their desks, in the vault the light fixtures started falling and the 1`2 foot bookshelves tipped over. then i was ebveloped in a cloud of asbestos dust from the ceiling.

took a while to get home, because the roads were blocked and there no power. so we all sat in our cars and watched the light poles sway in the aftershocks.

when i got home there was still no power and the house was a mess of fallen shelves and such. my project car was a 1950 hudson, and it had fallen off the jackstands i the driveway. all the plate glass was shattered out of buildings downtown, and everybody was in the street drinking beer. there was one death in my town from some pedestrian getting knocked over by a car. many houses and buildings were damaged and condemned, especially the 100-year old mansions that nobody had bothered to reinforce at the foundation.

buit this was los gatos, california, jusr a few miles from teh san andreas, which is sideslip continental marging between the pacific and north american plates. that quaker was only a 6.9, i think. the 1906 quake was a nastly one, around an 8, with some 6 metres of displacement. i dunno how much displacememnt occurred in 1989

where i lived we would get an earthquake every week or so, but mostly small ones that just shook th ehouse a bit
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: TheFightSong on February 12, 2022, 05:57:29 PM
Quote from: billy rubin on February 12, 2022, 05:24:02 PM
Quote from: TheFightSong on February 12, 2022, 02:05:53 PM
I don't know if you studied Earth science. But Earth's crust and below it get affected to get oil out. When those things are affected, it starts to move and shake. Hence, the earthquakes and hurricanes. Earth is geographically changing because of factors like oil drilling because it changes Earth's crust and things below that. If people stopped oil drilling, we would see less earthquakes and deaths caused by them. Oil companies don't really care about ethics nor Earth's well-being. So, deaths and pollution are an afterthought compared to profit making ultra-wealthy men wealthier than most people.

yes, fightsong. i have a graduate degree in geology and worked professionally as a prospect geologist for exxon in the permian basin of west texas.

you are correct that the oil industry doesnt care about ethics or people, and never has. i no longer work there. but oil exploration has no significant effect on the earths crust and below.

the solid lithosphere composing the earths superficial crust and upper mantle is about 130 km thick. all the sedimentary, igneous, and metamorphic rocks preserved from th eformation of the planet are there, as are all the petroleum reservoirs and deposits of other fossile fuels such as coal and natural gas. nothing that human beings do on the surface of the earths crust has any effect on the mantle, and our effect on the crust is limited to 10 or 15000 feet.

earthquakes as a resut of fluid injection were fitst noticed in clorado in the 1960s, in old mine shafts. currently, disposal of oil field brines back into the formations they came from has a definite effect on shallow earthquakes, up to 4 or 5 in magnitutde, iirc. but i have yet to ever hear of a death in the united states resulting from an earthquake outside of the usual major fault zones, such as the san andreas. the last death i know of in th eunited states was during the risgecrest in 2019, when a jeep fell on a man who was working underneath.

there is no connection between weather and oil drilling except through the action of greenhouse gases and global warming. oil consumption contributes some 11 billion metric tons of CO2 to the atmosphere ever year, but coal is right in there at 11 billion as well i havent looked up methane. at any rate, china, not the united states, is the major contributor to global warming through burning of coal. china produces twce the greenhouse gases of the united states, and three times those of india.

just a reality check.
Thanks for the reality check.

But oil drilling is still contributing to global warming and mild earthquakes even if they don't kill people.

China, India, the United States, and other countries are still responsible for significantly contributing to global warming regardless of how much they contribute.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on February 12, 2022, 06:03:11 PM
yes. but its not actually oil drilling thats causing the problem-- its not the oil companies.

its us, the people burning the fuel, and driving our cars, and lighting our houses, and heating our living rooms, and eating commercialy produced food.

we could bring the oil companies to their knees in a week if we had the collective will to simply stop buying the product that they provide for us. not driving the car, choosing to heat and illuminate only with renewable energy, refusing to buy food produced with petrochemical fertilizers and mechanical cultivation.

the oil companies arent the ones doing the damage. its us. sure, theyre selling the wrecking bar, but its us dismantlng the planet with it, not them.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on February 13, 2022, 10:47:20 PM
You are correct - billy. If there was no demand, there would be no supply.  I would like to get an electric truck next time i get one, but too expensive now.  I almost installed solar this year, but my wife was wary of it.  So, we continue to rely on petroleum. And we continue to pump out babies, and raise cattle.  As Pogo said, we have met the enemy, and the enemy is us.  We are the virus.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on February 14, 2022, 12:19:07 AM
it can be done. solar is cost effective now, at around $0.08 per kilowatt hour. when i lived in california grid power was $0.16, twice as much as solar. so its all in the installation, which can still be $15,000 for a big fancy system, inverter, and battery bank.

when i lived in california running electricity to a house off the grid was 20 or 30 dollars per foot. so we looked into solar and diesel.

but you can make a dent in your electric bill by doing nothing fancier than switching all your illumination to 12V DC run off solar panels on the roof and a minor battery bank. thats easy to do, and the panels dont cost much anymore, relatively. if you live in the country where the noise wont bother your neighbors its easy to run a little wind turbine away from the house to supplement the panels.

solar is three bucks per watt now, installed. so to run three 100 watt light bulbs at a time will cost around $1000 to set up, but after that th ecost is zero. a multi-source energy system in the house is probably the best way to do it
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on February 22, 2022, 07:42:25 AM
Russian tanks and troops have moved into Eastern Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60454795
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Bad Penny II on February 22, 2022, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: Tank on February 22, 2022, 07:42:25 AM
Russian tanks and troops have moved into Eastern Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60454795

It would be easier to take the moral high ground if it wasn't for the coalition of the willing debacle.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on February 22, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
I suppose we should thank the Russians for starting WWIII on such a memorable date 22/2/22.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Bad Penny II on February 22, 2022, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: Tank on February 22, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
I suppose we should thank the Russians for starting WWIII on such a memorable date 22/2/22.

Can't be, it's already taken, it's Ritchie Benaud day.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on February 22, 2022, 09:19:45 AM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on February 22, 2022, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: Tank on February 22, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
I suppose we should thank the Russians for starting WWIII on such a memorable date 22/2/22.

Can't be, it's already taken, it's Ritchie Benaud day.

It's now WWIII day AND Ritchie Benaud day.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Bad Penny II on February 22, 2022, 09:34:22 AM
Quote from: Tank on February 22, 2022, 09:19:45 AM
Quote from: Bad Penny II on February 22, 2022, 09:05:29 AM
Quote from: Tank on February 22, 2022, 09:00:23 AM
I suppose we should thank the Russians for starting WWIII on such a memorable date 22/2/22.

Can't be, it's already taken, it's Ritchie Benaud day.

It's now WWIII day AND Ritchie Benaud day.

Ritchie Benaud day and WWIII day, tooo.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: billy rubin on February 22, 2022, 12:42:09 PM
with the russian self glorification of themselves in their Great Patriotic War of 1939-1945, im surprised that nobody in the west has publicly compared putin to adolph hitler to his face
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on February 24, 2022, 03:40:05 PM
Putin says the Ukrainian government is Nazi and is committing genocide. What a liar.  He has asked Ukrainian troops to put down their weapons. They don't seem to be complying.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Tank on February 24, 2022, 05:13:54 PM
Apparently there is panic buying in Ukraine, you can't buy a gun or ammunition anywhere. There are a lot of Ukrainians who remember what it was like in the USSR and they don't want to go there again.
Title: Re: Tipping point?
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on February 24, 2022, 08:06:14 PM
Nobody really liked the USSR. That's why its member states declared independence as soon as they could.