Happy Atheist Forum

This forum was recommended by Thumpalumpacus to me on Thinkingaloudforum.com

It doesn't look too bad.   :bananacolor:  

QuoteI ate a baby

And how did that make you feel PoopShoot?

I :P

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

QuoteI ate a baby

And how did that make you feel PoopShoot? :P

Hiya Poop, good to see you here.

Welcome Poop!

That's not something I ever expected to write!  

Quote from: "Tank"Welcome Poop!

That's not something I ever expected to write!  

I get that a lot.  Not just from my name.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Tank"Welcome Poop!

That's not something I ever expected to write!  

I get that a lot.  Not just from my name.

I can see you're Thumps evil twin.

Quote from: "Tank"I can see you're Thumps evil twin.

My wife has said as much.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Tank"I can see you're Thumps evil twin.

My wife has said as much.

You have a smart wife  

Quote from: "Tank"You have a smart wife  :P

Hi PoopShoot, I'm sure Eddy will pop in soon to add his welcome.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Tank"You have a smart wife  :P

My wife has 3 or 4 degrees and a Phd. She visits mediums on occasions as a bit of fun  

Quote from: "DaveD"Hi PoopShoot, I'm sure Eddy will pop in soon to add his welcome.

I can only hope.  He should feel honored.  I figured any site he gave one star must have something on the ball.  Especially after giving TAF stars for being tolerant of his bullshit and then taking one away for a warning he never got.  

So the best possible rating would be zero stars?

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Tank"You have a smart wife  :P

My wife has 3 or 4 degrees and a Phd. She visits mediums on occasions as a bit of fun  

A bit of fun is one thing.  My wife is an apostate Jehovah's Witness who still holds to her theism and LITERALLY believes in fairies.  She's got her head on straight otherwise, though.  What are your wife's degrees in?

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Tank"You have a smart wife  :P

My wife has 3 or 4 degrees and a Phd. She visits mediums on occasions as a bit of fun  

Quote from: "PoopShoot"A bit of fun is one thing.  My wife is an apostate Jehovah's Witness who still holds to her theism and LITERALLY believes in fairies.  She's got her head on straight otherwise, though.  What are your wife's degrees in?

Good question! She's doing a History Masters ATM. I'll ask her when she gets in!

Quote from: "Tank"So the best possible rating would be zero stars?

In my mind, yes.  After a bit of looking around, I can see that what he SAYS is a lie, whereas what he gives stars for is entirely based on how much you'll put up with before banning him.  HAF got one star because he got banned.  TAF got three for putting up with him (he's not the worst troll we've seen anyway), but he says we'd have gotten 4 if he didn't get a warning that I know for a fact he never got.  In fact, the post to which he refers when he says that is when our admin mentioned that he's barely worth talking to because he started a thread for which ONLY ONE of his replies was on topic and HE started the thread.  With an attitude like that, I'd call golf rules on scoring.  He makes me

Quote from: "Tank"Good question! She's doing a History Masters ATM. I'll ask her when she gets in!

IF I can get back in coming n spring (I had moved during my last study, I moved from New Jersey to Kentucky) I'll be working on a degree in bio, but my formal training has just begun.

PS!  Glad to see ya here.  I'm sure you'll fit right in.  Welcome aboard.

Quote from: "Squid"PS!  Glad to see ya here.  I'm sure you'll fit right in.  Welcome aboard.

You the same squid that gave me the sources for my psyche paper?

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Squid"PS!  Glad to see ya here.  I'm sure you'll fit right in.  Welcome aboard.

You the same squid that gave me the sources for my psyche paper?

That would be me  

What a fucking guy!  I got an A on that paper.  Thanks.  

Quote from: "PoopShoot"What a fucking guy!  I got an A on that paper.  Thanks.   :headbang:

I'm glad, too.  If you want, I will post it (If I can find it).

Quote from: "PoopShoot"I'm glad, too.  If you want, I will post it (If I can find it).

Sure, it'd be great to read it.

Quote from: "Squid"

Quote from: "PoopShoot"I'm glad, too.  If you want, I will post it (If I can find it).

Sure, it'd be great to read it.

http://thinkingaloudforum.com/forum/vie ... on#p267482 (http://thinkingaloudforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9075&hilit=the+genetics+of+religion#p267482)

That's the thread.

You might have actually read it already (it's not exactly a new paper), but here it is:

The Genetics of Spirituality

Kevin Ash

Religion has been around for quite some time.  Evidence of ritual burial dates back as far as the Paleolithic era.  The vast number of varied religions leads me to wonder a variety of things, not the least of which is how religion has survived this long.  The number of groups fighting against others considered to be infidels would intuitively lead to extermination of the religious memeplexes, yet this is not the case.  The groups have risen and evolved to fill a variety of psychological niches.  The advancement of science and reason has not succeeded in ridding the world of religion.  Indeed, religion is stronger than ever, employing a host of new doctrines intended to keep the dogma in line with new scientific discoveries.  As counterintuitive as the entire situation is, one must stand in awe of the psychological forces involved in adopting and adapting the various memes of religious dogma.  At the core of the issue is the individual feeling that there must be a god.  In the debate of genes versus environment there is good reason to believe that there is a religious component to our DNA, a "god gene" if you will.  By no means does this mean that genes are the entire answer to the question of religion.  Indeed, every behavior must be learned, at least to some degree.  The genetic predisposition to spirituality is no different.  The physiological effects of a god gene will still need to be enacted upon by religious teachings for a particular memeplex to be adopted by a person.  The issue of a god gene is not whether there are families willing to teach their children religion, but whether the genetic predisposition is strong enough to be a significant factor in their adoption and retention throughout life.

Early man discovered a curious effect of ritualistic behavior.  He could transcend himself and touch the mind of god.  This effect is actually caused by a monoamine response in the brain.  Subjects in the throes of religious ecstasy activate monoamines in the brain including serotonin and dopamine.  The monoamine response stimulates the hippocampus, the neocortex and the limbic system (Borg, 2003).  These monoamine responses are very similar to the neurological effects of such drugs as LSD, mescaline and psilocybin.  Mescaline and psilocybin have been used in the past and are still used, though less commonly, as a spiritual enhancement device.  The reason for this is the effects on the brain affect spatial distortion, perceptual distortions, hallucinations, religious ecstasy, mystic awareness and a sense of mystical well-being (Borg, 2003).  Dean Hamer examined a variety of studies related to this effect, and came to the conclusion in his book, The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into Our Genes, that these monoamine reactions are based on the genes and directly related to a person's ability to transcend the self (Hamer, 2004).  The brain, excited with chemical stimuli, is unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.  With no logical examination of the event, early man would have seen this as clear evidence of a great supernatural being that has a vested interest in him.

Hamer recalled an experiment done on Good Friday of 1962.  Several seminary students were given psilocybin in an effort to discover how it would affect a spiritual experience.  Several years later a few of the subjects recalled their experiences.  One subject spoke of feeling connected to the universe: "It was a feeling of being lifted out of your present state.  I just stopped worrying about time ... there was one universal man ... a lot of connectedness with everybody and everything... (Hamer, 2004).  This statement is typical of transcendent experiences.  Another effect of the monoamine response is a distortion of time and space.  Another subject was quoted as saying: "All of a sudden I felt sort of drawn into infinity ... I felt that I was caught up in the vastness of creation ... the main thing about it was a sense of timelessness" (Hamer, 2004).  The final effect of the drug was ineffable, as described by a third subject: "I remember feeling at the time that I was ... Incapable of describing it.  Words are a familiar environment for me and I usually can think of them, but I didn't find any for this.  And I haven't yet [25 years later]" (Hamer, 2004).  The religious will often deny that these effects are at all like the effects of drugs, so the subjective experience may vary in intensity, but the underlying neurological activity is undeniable.  With no apparent reason for these phenomena, ancient man would have been left to conclude that his god had induced the sensations that we now know to be an effect of monoamines on the brain.  Once a deep connection to these phenomena had set in, a commitment to the hallucination was able to be formed as a foundation for a persuasive set of doctrines.

Religious doctrines were often harsh and certainly oppressive.  Just as often, however, they were physically beneficial.  Laws prohibiting drinking, smoking, and other behaviors detrimental to health were also added over time to allow genes to be selected for belief in spiritual concepts.  Laura B. Koenig and George E. Valliant compiled a study of religious individuals and overall health, which they published In January of this year.  They found a correlation between regular church attendance and improved health.  The subjects who were active in their church tended to live longer, and be in better health overall throughout their lives (Koenig, 2009).  The religious subjects also showed a significantly lowered rate of smoking, alcohol abuse and all of the health problems that result from those destructive behaviors.  The religious have a definite health benefit, and certainly could use that to their advantage over the nonreligious.  A common law among religious canon is the idea that those who believe things "heretical" are to be executed.  The environment created by these rules is a perfect selective environment for any genes that might cause one to be predisposed to accepting religion.  The evidence that this had occurred was published in 1999.  Brian M. D'Onofrio, et al, discovered that twins, whether reared together or separate, tended to have similar spiritual interests and attitudes (D'Onofrio, p. 964).  Moreover, they found a correlation with religion and addictive personalities.  The bulk of those who were religious also showed a high level of impulsivity and some level of psychosis.

It would seem to be a non-sequitur that religious people have a tendency toward addiction, since religion is so opposed to drugs and alcohol, because the addictive personality would tend to lead an individual to drug and alcohol abuse; but in a religious setting, they seem to be addicted to the religion itself.  The psychotic behavior could very well be due to the drug-like effects in the brain, but may just as likely be due to the behaviors involved in religious rituals.  Impulsive behavior can easily explain why so many religious people readily accept so many illogical ideas about their deity while remaining skeptical about so many other ideas outside of their church.  All of this seems to say that one is predetermined from conception to be a slave to a particular faith, but this is only partially true.  A person can be genetically predisposed to being spiritual, but their particular faith must be based on environmental experiences.  Twins raised in a religious environment showed a remarkably high chance of seeking and maintaining that same affiliation throughout life, regardless of whether they were monozygotic or dizygotic.  This effect is distinct from the trend of MZ twins to maintain a certain level of spirituality, whether they maintained affiliation or not; an effect not found in DZ twins (D'Onofrio, 1999).  Moreover, MZ twins who leave a particular religion will tend to retain their level of overall spirituality.  This was identified by a score in a "self-transcendence" category.  MZ twins tended to have a stronger correlation in the self-transcendence score (Hamer, 2004).
Self-transcendence is an interesting trait; it allows a person to remain spiritual even if not religious at all.  One twin study even accounted for this by quantifying self-transcendence and religious adherence separately (Hamer, 2004).  A concept related to self transcendence is intrinsic spirituality.  This is a designation meaning that a person feels their spirituality to be inherent and real; therefore they live their lives according to their spiritual beliefs and feel a connection to their god or feel its presence while they pray.  This is as opposed to extrinsic religion, that is to say a person who follows a religion to impress their peers, make friends and meet new people.  When studying extrinsic religiousness, they found a greater correlation in DZ twins than in MZ twins (Hamer, 2004).  What is really bizarre about these results is that they correlate even in twins separated at birth.  Regardless, this implies that the extrinsic effect is probably more environmental than genetic.  Intrinsic spirituality, on the other hand, shows a strong correlation in MZ twins, regardless of separation, that is not present in DZ twins (Hamer, 2004).  Even if growing up in different neighborhoods, countries and religions, the MZ twins tended to feel similar phenomena, a personal connection to their gods.

There is certainly a physiological reason for a person's spirituality and, by comparison, belief in a deity.  The correlation in twins deeply supports a genetic basis for self transcendence and overall spirituality.  The mechanism of self transcendence is well researched and the results are stunning.  There is a ton of data supporting the idea of a god gene.  But the data only supports an idea.  To verify a god gene, it would have to be sequenced.  And sequenced it was.

George Uhl was a geneticist working on a study of addiction.  Uhl had found a gene in his drug addicted subjects that packaged several monoamines together, allowing for a massive monoamine response with the release of a single package into the brain.  If this gene is found there is a solid genetic basis for spiritual phenomena in people's lives.  This gene, VMAT2, was sequenced and compared to personality test scores (Hamer, 2004).  The twins with high transcendent spirituality scores tended to have this gene present.  The very basis of the spiritual experiences of the twins is based on a gene related to drug addiction.  Having found a gene that connects addiction to spirituality is a clear genetic basis in support of the idea that spirituality, though in many ways beneficial, is based on a self-induced hallucination.  There are certainly other genes involved as well, though I know of none that have been sequenced.  The strong correlation in MZ twins, even after being separated at birth, combined with the physiological mechanisms being played upon clearly predicts more genetic interactions as the basis for spiritual phenomena.
Much data exists on the subject of physiological reasons for religion.  Religion is undoubtedly based upon rituals now known to be based on a monoamine response rather than some supernatural force.  The effects on the human psyche of these rituals is the very same as the effects of drugs.  Those who hold religion in high regard are addicted to the drugs made in their own brains.  The genetic basis for this is found in the strong correlation of twins to have a nearly identical view of spirituality time and again.  A gene has been verified to produce the chemical response and the addictive tendencies necessary to make a person religious.  All of these data show a clear correlation between genetic makeup and a deep faith in ancient mythology.

As a society, we hold drugs in low esteem, yet hold the spiritual leaders who teach others to tap into their personal ability to mimic these drugs in high esteem.  Indeed, Hamer's book has received much negative attention from religious leaders, even though he never made the argument that I am: religious phenomena are hallucinations and the evidence presented here is a clear indicator that a deity is not forging personal relationships with his followers.  The natural basis for spirituality and the personal ability to transcend oneself is a chemical interaction with the brain and nothing more.  The natural tendency for people to feel the intoxicating presence of some neurotransmitters is the perfect breeding ground for some of the most destructive memes to ever plague mankind.  The memes of religion may be inherently destructive, but there is no reason to be unduly fair to spirituality in general.  It is possible to accept and embrace one's personal spirituality while rejecting the negative dogma of religion.  The integration of spirituality and scientific objectivity is quite probably the basis for some of the greatest scientific discoveries ever.  The rejection of faith based claims promotes objectivity, which is necessary for scientific advancement as a species.  The clear fact that personal relationships with god are an internal hallucination is all that should be needed for people to wake up and embrace reason and critical thinking.

Works Cited

Borg, J. e. (2003). The Serotonin System and Spiritual Experiences. The American Journal of Psychiatry , 160 (11), 1965-1969.

D'Onofrio, B. M. (1999). Understanding Biological and Social Influences on Religious Affiliation, Attitudes and Behaviors: A Behavior Genetic Perspective.
Journal of Personality , 67 (6), 954-984.

Hamer, D. (2004). The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into Our Genes (1st ed.). DOUBLEDAY.

Koenig, L. B. (2009). A prospective study of church attendance and health over the lifespan. Health Psychology , 28 (1), 117-124.

Oh yeah!  I do remember this paper now! Good job though man.  I haven't really kept up with the research in a few years, it would be interesting to see if there's any newer stuff out there.  I have Hamer's book but just haven't been able to read it yet.

Quote from: "Squid"Oh yeah!  I do remember this paper now! Good job though man.  I haven't really kept up with the research in a few years, it would be interesting to see if there's any newer stuff out there.  I have Hamer's book but just haven't been able to read it yet.

I appreciate it.  It was your input that led me to the material I used, which netted me 100%.  So you'reindirectly responsible for my A.   :bananacolor:

And who doesn't love a dancing banana.  The gay colors make it less scary, what with it's canlike design and all...   :bananacolor:

You were never this gay before.

Quote from: "Cecilie"I :P

Seen that new Lano-kid thing..?  

I sure as hell aint buying their soap ever again. EVER, you hear.

/end derail

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You were never this gay before.

You never took me to dinner.

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You were never this gay before.

You never took me to dinner.

I'll take you. Even buy a banana costume for the occasion  :raised:

Quote from: "PoopShoot"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"You were never this gay before.

You never took me to dinner.

Phew, my playing hard-to-get is completely justified now.

By "banana costume" do you really mean "condoms"?

Quote from: "PoopShoot"By "banana costume" do you really mean "condoms"?

What else would I mean..?  :D

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "PoopShoot"By "banana costume" do you really mean "condoms"?

What else would I mean..?  :D

POINH (I may come to regret that request)  

Quote from: "Tank"POINH (I may come to regret that request)  

LOL! That you may :-P

Here, check out the cursed new Lano-kid in stead:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffinalelano.apt11.kjapt.no%2Fuploads%2Fentry%2F03%2F19%2F%2F73ca5c46c729671a776a7c41263ffa91.jpg&hash=d492ddf81b0e916da58007a49e14334f3f9ff0ee)
(At risk of being extremely politically incorrect) How much soap do you think that mug will sell? (Not counting the pity soap, that is)

I'm late, but still welcoming.  So...welcome!