Happy Atheist Forum

Just to clear it up, the title, if I could, would be, "Why do I have to disprove God?"

I have noticed that it seems as if Atheists have to disprove God more than theists have to prove God.. I am wondering, why is this?

I think it may be because:
A main reason why a lot of theists believe is because they don't see how "everything came from nothing", so something intelligent had to create it, even though Stupid Design has been shown. Now, I have thought up a way, but haven't been able to use it yet, so refute that through logic. But still, so why do Atheists have to disprove more than theists have to prove?

I find this crazy, since if I told people that I just got a new Ferrari, people would tell me to prove it more than I would have to get them to disprove that I don't, but when it comes to God, it's the other way around.


(P.S. I have been reading The Gospel of The Flying Spaghetti Monster some.. It's great!)

Quote from: "Kevin"Just to clear it up, the title, if I could, would be, "Why do I have to disprove God?"

I have noticed that it seems as if Atheists have to disprove God more than theists have to prove God.. I am wondering, why is this?

According to argumentation theory, the burden of proof is on theists. They say god exists, we disagree.

But the simple truth is that we as atheists are outnumbered. Many of them aren't used to us yet. They'll either come around or find themselves being outdated before too long.

Quote from: "Willravel"But the simple truth is that we as atheists are outnumbered. Many of them aren't used to us yet. They'll either come around or find themselves being outdated before too long.

Oh, I know. I have told some people that in 100 years, the FSM will be the main religion, and that God will be taught like how Greek Mythology is.

Will basically hit it on the head: numbers.

Reality is that which is agreed upon by the masses. Unfortunately for us, the majority population is an ignorant flock of sheep.

(baa)

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Reality is that which is agreed upon by the masses. Unfortunately for us, the majority population is an ignorant flock of sheep.

(baa)

Hahahah! Sorry to post so much in this, but I had to address that.. I love what you said! I have even told a believer that just about everyone is ignorant... It's sad how far we have come along in 4000 years; we went from one deity to another, and somehow in over 2000 years, people can't get past God yet...

An excellent argument. Unfortunately, most theists think they can prove God.

I agree with the numbers explanation.  If atheists ever reciprocate the percentage the theists have then I believe the perception of "burden of proof" would also be flipped.  Then the theists would be asking "why".

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Will basically hit it on the head: numbers.

Reality is that which is agreed upon by the masses. Unfortunately for us, the majority population is an ignorant flock of sheep.

(baa)

Indeed. But the black sheep can bite too sometimes. [/ref. movie]  

In truth there is no reason for an atheist to speek on the subject of god unless questioned on the matter by a theist or in context of a discussion on bad particularly bad literature. There is much less of a reason for an atheist to try to debunk the idea of a God. To an Atheist the statment that there is no god is the same as the statment water is wet. It is blatently clear to the atheist that this is not a truth. For the theist the parallel of this is an obvious truth. This looks to be an unpassable problem but it is not even a stumbleing block. According to the scientific method it is the proponents of an argument are the ones who must provide evidence of their theory. This evidence must be irrifutable by the champions of the opposeing arguments inorder to be held as haveing weight. Should the arguments have holes or be shown as refutable it is then the proponents job to repair the argument find more compelling evidence and bring it back into discussion. The atheist does not have to disprove the theory of god in order for it not to hold the weight of truth, they must only disprove or punch holes in the arguments of the theists assembled. When a theist states "You simply must have faith that what i am telling you is the truth." it is becuase he/she no longer has an arguemnt. At this point the atheist would have no choice but to conceed the argument but as a theist needs no evidence in order to belive his or her arguemnt they stubornly press forward, tripping over their own feet. At this point the position of the theist can be seen as mute and of no intelectual importance and must then be disreguarded.

Dragon, you show an admirable respect for the scientific method, but unfortunatley there are a lot more theists than atheists, including the people in power. As right as we are, when enough people hold an opinion ( however poorly based in evidence ) it shamefully becomes rather weighty, for all the wrong reasons.

SSY it is the people in this case who hold the weight not the religion or belief. It is not the idea of God that holds sway it is the ignorance of the populace. Atheists are a Growing minority all around the world but our message is not one that has been in the media or books for a few millennium. It is only in the past hundred to two hundred years that Atheism has garnered any sort of respect or tolerance in society. Through out most of history we would have been stoned for stating any of our views. It is only in the last 30 years that being an Atheist was something one could feel comfortable arguing for in public and at that as far as the US is concerned it is only in the north and west that it is alright. Speaking out loud about Atheism in the south is about as socially acceptable as having a bumper sticker stating I HATE AMERICA. It is a good way to get egged or have your car keyed. Give us 50 more years and you will see a huge turn take place.

I think Dragon nailed it....there is no reason to attempt to disprove God.  A theist will want you to do so, and when you fail they will then feel as if they have proven their position.  There is no way to prove a negative, and in this conversation there is no proof either for or against it.  The theist believes it based on some internal faith that can't be explained and the atheist can not disprove an internal faith.  I believe that my cats can understand me when I talk to them, there is no way for me to prove that, there is no way for you to disprove it....when dealing with emotions or faith all you can do is refuse to get dragged into a the discussion and allow the believer to wallow in faith and pity them for their inability to think critically.

Question.  If you can not prove the non-existence of a God why do you care to enter the debate with a person who is obviously a believer?  

As far as Dragon's comment about not being accepted in the South, I have to say, I am in North Texas and I spend more time explaining why I don't care about football than why I don't believe in a God...ha  

Why do Atheists have to disprove God to the Theist? Simple. It is to see the burning villages of his enemies and to hear the wailing of their women!   Ok, not really.

Thank you VanReal

In answer to your question there is really no reason to try to enter into the conversation. However it is sometimes worth the discussion as the person my just be ignorant. As to TX sounds like an improvement over GA.

lets be honest. the only way to disprove god is to get at children as early as the church does.this means either getting religious education off the curriculum or having the our views introduced into the curriculum as a seperate subject. in essence you`re not battling a belief, you`re battling 2,000 years of indoctrination

Dear Spartacus I disagree only with the idea that we have to target children, that is one of the main tiffs I have with religion is that they do attack children. Frankly the idea of attacking a child that is below the age of reason sickens me. It makes us no better than them. I think any one who has watched an entire episode of Veggie tales can agree with me that it is just plain sick. As to your point about indoctrination on the other hand i totally agree.

The way I figure it, there's only one person that I've ever had to disprove god to, and that's myself.  The reason for this? I was born to a strong catholic family. I was taught in those early years that if I DIDN'T believe in the god of "my church" that I would go to hell and suffer for ETERNITY. I was told by my mother, the first time I openly questioned "my faith", that I HAD to believe because she believed, and since she believed she was going to heaven, she couldn't stand the thought of not having one of her children there.
Think about the crushing guilt of that one. Denounce your god and lose your loved ones FOREVER. That was almost enough for me to "believe". In fact, it took a long time for me to get past that.
Religious indoctrination is child-abuse, in my opinion, for that fact alone. And it is my belief that the fear and guilt is what make so many people "believe" even if they're smart enough to question. They push the questions aside because eternity is an extremely long time to burn in hell IF they question and are wrong.
I know we've all heard this one, "What if you're wrong?"
It took me a long time to get past that question. But, I digress...

Back to the original question about disproving god. I don't need to disprove god to anyone else for the same reason I don't want anyone else trying to prove god to me. Nothing that bothers me more than someone trying to force their beliefs on me, so I try to show that same respect to others, whether I think I can persuade them or not.

On the other hand, if I have a couple of mormons or jahova's witnesses or anyone else come to my door and try to persuade me, I'll tell them I'll listen to them as long as they're willing to afford me equal time to listen to my point of view. Oddly enough, I've never had a taker. Hmmmm....

I understand when someone says they worry for my "immortal soul". That's fine. I understand if they want to "pray for me". Cool. But I don't want them preaching to me. I feel the sort of the same way about them, I feel sorry for them for living their life to die and go to their heaven, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to "convert" them to my belief, because all it will do is aggravate me when they don't.

Let them believe in their god. Just don't force it on me.