There's a much stronger effort under way to have the US a Christian nation via government declaration. Unconstitutional. Government cannot favor religion one over another. They promote that government in the US should be based on Christian principles. Question: Who decides what Christian principles are or should be. Another classic case that shows Americans don't seem to understand the Constitution. :)
Sadly, my fellow Americans are completely clueless about how this country is run.
Well... I suppose there are people who think that such things matter. If only they get the name of their religion or god into shit, then it will certainly grant its favour.
...And/or they may want certain policies implemented, and see the name as a doorway to no-true-Scotsman their way towards them. "Well, as a Christian nation, how do you not have school prayer?" - Quite easily, in fact, but I suspect that that is how it goes.
One side of the political aisle is largely responsible for the abandonment of some of our most important Constitutional provisions.
I don't know. From what I read of Supreme court rulings (Far from every single one, but I do find the "high legalese" fascinating) those abandonment attempts tend to come from all manner of sides.
...But I assume you are referring to that least-coup coup in the history of coups, which could also be framed as the most non-coup coup in the history of non-coups?
i agree with icarus that the attempts to subvert the co nstitution are exclusively from the conservatives. freedom of speech, freedom of religion, illegal search and seizure, and so on.
democrats have used legal means, such as expanding presidential power, but violating the constitution in the name of the constitution is a republican specialty.
its very much not a case of both-sides-are-equal. the conservatives are existentially threatened by demographics, and are lashing out without regard for the democratic process.
That may indeed be true. What I was referring to, is some recent decisions on things like affirmative action, which has been a practice for quite some time despite it standing on questionable constitutional grounds at best.
I'm not saying that any specific "side" does it more - that is not something I can demonstrate or am particularly interested in, to be honest. What I am saying, however, is that while them pots and kettles may be varying degrees of sooty, there does be enough soot on the lot, it seems.
Quote from: Asmodean on August 29, 2023, 09:50:42 AMThat may indeed be true. What I was referring to, is some recent decisions on things like affirmative action, which has been a practice for quite some time despite it standing on questionable constitutional grounds at best.
I'm not saying that any specific "side" does it more - that is not something I can demonstrate or am particularly interested in, to be honest. What I am saying, however, is that while them pots and kettles may be varying degrees of sooty, there does be enough soot on the lot, it seems.
We're also finding how unconstitutional the US has been for the last (at least) several decades. Almost all firearms laws are being taken way that were put into law have been overriding the 2nd amendment. That tells me that the US government's political mentality is existing more on power over the citizens than remaining within the constitution.
Should change the amendment before putting local laws that conflict with it into practice. :smilenod:
Quote from: Asmodean on September 01, 2023, 11:02:04 AMShould change the amendment before putting local laws that conflict with it into practice. :smilenod:
Interesting though is that at places where they have the most restrictive gun laws they don't seem to be very useful. It is almost as if criminals don't obey these laws (like in Chicago).
Quote from: Tom62 on September 02, 2023, 02:10:09 PMQuote from: Asmodean on September 01, 2023, 11:02:04 AMShould change the amendment before putting local laws that conflict with it into practice. :smilenod:
Interesting though is that at places where they have the most restrictive gun laws they don't seem to be very useful. It is almost as if criminals don't obey these laws (like in Chicago).
Well that's not surprising is it when you consider that guns are virtually universally available in the US. If you can't get a gun where you are just get it in another state or pay somebody to go and get a gun. The sheer quantity of guns in the US makes acquiring one easy if you know the right sort of person and by definition the sort of people who want an illegal gun will know exactly who to talk to. Gun law in America won't work until America falls out of love with guns and I doubt we'll see that in our lifetimes.
That is absolutely true. Too many guns around and too many people who love guns.
and also people like me who dont love them but consider access to a gun to be prudent.
i am going to lunch with a friend wearing a beretta 380 in a crossdraw holster under my shirt as i write.
too many mass shootings too close to me in my iife to live otherwise.
Quote from: billy rubin on September 02, 2023, 07:32:51 PMand also people like me who dont love them but consider access to a gun to be prudent.
i am going to lunch with a friend wearing a beretta 380 in a crossdraw holster under my shirt as i write.
too many mass shootings too close to me in my iife to live otherwise.
I can totally understand your caution.
The biggest problem is; "a good guy with a gun" is likely to be shot dead before he recognizes that he has been exposed to "a bad guy with a gun". Much vigilance is necessary. That is a damned poor way to have to live.
OK I confess that I have guns. My most trusted one is a pump action twelve gauge shotgun. It would be a bit conspicuous during a trip down to the ice cream vendors place of business. My shotgun has a pistol grip which make it rather intimidating to onlookers,including bad guys. Looks much like a "street sweeper" tool. I fear that the cops would see it as a threat and do what they think they had to do. Dilemma!
Prior the death of my FiL I had a pistol and a carbine. Gained some firearms, which I'd rather not have, TBH. Nothing unlawful. Firearms possession in the US really is a big problem. The vast majority are in collections and out of the hands of criminals. One criminal can make a lot of dead, which really is a problem. I don't watch much TV, but I can tell you that the amount of gun-related death (never mind the lasers, swords and daggers) that my wife watches is appalling. I only know of it because I hear/see it when I walk through the room. I'm generally in the "shop" making things, or surfing the net at non-violent sites about woodworking, metalworking, and antique trucks (of which, I have one).
i agree that we have a culture problem in america with guns, and it is a simple fact that people own them who dont know enough to be safe, and worse, who consider their use to be acceptable in normal situations.
im thinking of those appalling cases recently where people are being shot for knocking on the wrong door.
using a gun is a last resort decision, and is not acceptable unless your life is in real danger, right now. texas is the only place i know where killing in defense of property is legal, but texans are barbarians.
i think gun ownership should be restricted, and i am willing to have restrictions aspply to me. but i dont see them as likely given the weird gun culture.
but people i know and live next to are being executed by strangers while minding their own business, and if i am ever in that situation, i would rather be able to shoot back.
As an outsider, I find it weird that violence in movies or on TV isn't a problem in the US, but if a breast pops accidentally out of a lady's skirt it is a huge scandal.
Quote from: Tom62 on September 03, 2023, 09:12:37 AMAs an outsider, I find it weird that violence in movies or on TV isn't a problem in the US, but if a breast pops accidentally out of a lady's skirt it is a huge scandal.
I know! Totally bizarre. If everybody was shagging each other the world would be a much better place.
It might be the comfort of the ignorant but I never even thought about guns while I was in San Francisco.
i remember benny hill showing skits where the birds had their boobies out and nobody thought a thing about it. in the 70s.
but here in the land of the free a young girl cant have an abortion because it will destroy the social fabric, but when shes shot to death in her fourth grade classroom, all we need are thoughts and prayers to make it okay.
i honestly dont know what to do with my country. its insane over here.
Quote from: billy rubin on September 03, 2023, 09:36:14 PMi remember benny hill showing skits where the birds had their boobies out and nobody thought a thing about it. in the 70s.
but here in the land of the free a young girl cant have an abortion because it will destroy the social fabric, but when shes shot to death in her fourth grade classroom, all we need are thoughts and prayers to make it okay.
i honestly dont know what to do with my country. its insane over here.
I can't deny your logic :(
Quote from: Tom62 on September 03, 2023, 09:12:37 AMAs an outsider, I find it weird that violence in movies or on TV isn't a problem in the US, but if a breast pops accidentally out of a lady's skirt it is a huge scandal.
I don't think pixelated violence is necessarily a problem - we don't seem to have it, nor do the Swiss and so forth - and we do consume broadly the same stuff in comparable amounts. It's an avenue for escapism. Of course, it is possible that Americans are just overall less "stable" than "the rest," but then the correct question to ask would be why that is the case.
I think he same applies to boobies. It can be useful to ask what drives this excessive (by some European standards at least) prudishness.
Quote from: Asmodean on September 06, 2023, 08:11:38 AMQuote from: Tom62 on September 03, 2023, 09:12:37 AMAs an outsider, I find it weird that violence in movies or on TV isn't a problem in the US, but if a breast pops accidentally out of a lady's skirt it is a huge scandal.
I don't think pixelated violence is necessarily a problem - we don't seem to have it, nor do the Swiss and so forth - and we do consume broadly the same stuff in comparable amounts. It's an avenue for escapism. Of course, it is possible that Americans are just overall less "stable" than "the rest," but then the correct question to ask would be why that is the case.
I think he same applies to boobies. It can be useful to ask what drives this excessive (by some European standards at least) prudishness.
The religious right decrees that any display of boobs or penises, even unintentionally, are crimes against God. The mere mention of those body parts causes deep end Jesus people to become uncomfortable.....or so they say. In fact the Religious right, statistically have more children than sectarians do.
All the while, youth pastors, deacons, and full scale preacher men are too frequently seducing teen age girls. They must be banging the teens in dark rooms so that God will not see them, the preacher will not see her boobs etc.
The most religious regions have, verifiably, the most out of wedlock pregnancies, the most teen age pregnancies. One might wonder how that could possibly happen in the bible belt. Could stupidity (and over active, but forbidden libidos) play into the game somehow?
Xcuse please...I may be over sensitive about such things. When I was in high school, I had a crush on a certain girl. She was always nice to me but would never encourage me at all. It came to pass that she was being regularly had by the local Baptist preacher. That kind of stuff lasts in ones brain for a long time.
Quote from: Icarus on September 08, 2023, 03:15:54 AMThe religious right decrees that any display of boobs or penises, even unintentionally, are crimes against God. The mere mention of those body parts causes deep end Jesus people to become uncomfortable.....or so they say. In fact the Religious right, statistically have more children than sectarians do.
I think this ignores a bunch of variables to then miss the root cause aspect of my question. Look to nudity in mainstream entertainment for an example. The stuff coming from "The anglosphere" (though not exclusively) tends to avoid it even where it would make sense, while the stuff from, say, "Germanosphere" is far more laid-back when it comes to such things. Personally, I've been skinny dipping with Christians and Right-wingers (Well, when I use plural... There was only one christian in that bunch) and the skinny part of it was just not a big deal to any-one involved. We were out doing nature stuff. The water was warm. Not one of us had swimming shorts.
Obviously, I can't
konw if the believer among us spent the following month crying himself to sleep every night, but I have good and valid reasons to think that he thought about it no more than the rest.
QuoteXcuse please...I may be over sensitive about such things. When I was in high school, I had a crush on a certain girl. She was always nice to me but would never encourage me at all. It came to pass that she was being regularly had by the local Baptist preacher. That kind of stuff lasts in ones brain for a long time.
I can see how something like that might tunnel a person's vision somewhat. Personally, I see it thusly; there is nudity. There is sex. There may or may not be love. Those things may be related, but they may also not be. In the anecdote above, none of it was remotely sexual or romantic, but there was more-or-less public nudity for no other reason than that it made sense under the circumstances. We do have christian baggage, so where in the evolution of our respective societies did "the Anglosphere" go one way while the "Germanosphere" went another? For what reason?
Long ago I was at a sporting event in a very French location Northeast of Montreal, Quebec, Canada. The outdoor event had toilet buildings. I needed to pee. Approaching one of the buildings I looked for signs that designated which doorway was for women or for men. No such signs were there. My bladder was signaling urgency. I hesitated to enter either of the doors at the ends of the buildings. Finally a man came out of the one of the doors. Whew! that must be the men's room. On entering I discovered that there were women in the same room.
The French Canadians use unisex toilets without giving it a thought. This dumbass hillbilly learned that all of us do not have the same hang up about bathroom use.
That is a sad reality. Here in Florida and elsewhere within the grips of christian nationalists, there is much ado, even outrage, about having transgender persons dare use a segregated toilet that does not correspond to their sex at birth.
What got me about San Francisco was the proliferation of different loos. Male, female, trans gender, no gender. It would be so much simpler if there were just a set of loos.
Quote from: Tank on September 09, 2023, 08:46:27 AMWhat got me about San Francisco was the proliferation of different loos. Male, female, trans gender, no gender. It would be so much simpler if there were just a set of loos.
Simpler perhaps but much less efficient.
A male with even the merest skerrick of order in their lives will rarely have need of a public shitter, the communal trough will almost always suffice.
Other genders have more complex requirements that demand much more floor space. If changes require us to queue, you know we won't.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding.. on September 09, 2023, 02:21:08 PMQuote from: Tank on September 09, 2023, 08:46:27 AMWhat got me about San Francisco was the proliferation of different loos. Male, female, trans gender, no gender. It would be so much simpler if there were just a set of loos.
Simpler perhaps but much less efficient.
A male with even the merest skerrick of order in their lives will rarely have need of a public shitter, the communal trough will almost always suffice.
Other genders have more complex requirements that demand much more floor space. If changes require us to queue, you know we won't.
I think that is very true!