Happy Atheist Forum

Lol sorry, I couldn't think of how to word the title any better.

SO
Last night, I was laying in bed trying to sleep, and I thought of a conversation I had with a friend last school year, and her telling me that her Uncle's view of heaven was a place with God so it was happy, and that Hell was just the absense of God, so it wasn't a good place... Or something like that. I thought of stuff I should of said (Can't remember now), and thought that she would end with: "You have to have faith..."

This got me to thinking: That one sentence, I believe, is the cause that God has stuck around so much and why so many people believe...
Because if you were arguing/debating/discussing God with a believer, and you got them cornered, what would be the last thing they would say after they were trying to prove God? "Well, you have to have faith He is there.", which kind of gets rid of the point of them arguing over God's existence if they just said right there you can't prove God...... ANYWAY, that is why I think, well, one of the many reasons, religion has gotten so many people...

Because that one sentence basically says this: "You know more than I do, you can disprove God more than I can prove him so you win, but I am not going to give in because you have to just BELIEVE HE IS THERE [with no evidence to back it up]." - that's how I view it.

So just by people using "You have to have faith", that's an excuse to believe in something you have no reason to believe in, or you can't prove...


Comments?
(And have you seen Babylon A.D.? I love how is kind of criticizes religion in it   )

You are absolutey right, faith is beleif in absence of evidence, it makes no sense in day to day life, but people get stupid when it comes to god.

Imagine if you were talking to a theist and they asked you for the money you owed them, and you replied with " I already paid you back, you have to have FAITH in it being there, and it will come to you"

I don't think they would buy it.

I remember seeing an argument before that basically went like this:

"Believing in science is more of a cop-out than believing in religion. Anybody can believe in facts, but it takes a stronger person to rely on faith that God is there."

Quote from: "seasonsofmadness"I remember seeing an argument before that basically went like this:

"Believing in science is more of a cop-out than believing in religion. Anybody can believe in facts, but it takes a stronger person to rely on faith that God is there."

Which is relying on non-existent facts about God which science has against God... Lol wow. Sorry if that didn't make sense you know what I mean.

Quote from: "seasonsofmadness"I remember seeing an argument before that basically went like this:

"Believing in science is more of a cop-out than believing in religion. Anybody can believe in facts, but it takes a stronger person to rely on faith that God is there."

"Acknowledging stop signs shows a lack of faith compared to ignoring them. Anybody can stop at an intersection, but it takes a real idiot to rely on faith that all the other cars will stop, too."

Man, I love religious "logic".

The one I keep getting hit with (and subsequently laughing at) is "You have faith just like we do. You have faith in the people who teach you. You have faith in what you are told is true. You have faith in science. And you have faith in your own view of things."

Quote from: "seasonsofmadness"I remember seeing an argument before that basically went like this:

"Believing in science is more of a cop-out than believing in religion. Anybody can believe in facts, but it takes a stronger person to rely on faith that God is there."

Of course it's more difficult to believe in absurdities vs reality but that doesn't make it an accomplishment.

Quote from: "Kevin"Lol sorry, I couldn't think of how to word the title any better.

SO
Last night, I was laying in bed trying to sleep, and I thought of a conversation I had with a friend last school year, and her telling me that her Uncle's view of heaven was a place with God so it was happy, and that Hell was just the absense of God, so it wasn't a good place... Or something like that. I thought of stuff I should of said (Can't remember now), and thought that she would end with: "You have to have faith..."

This got me to thinking: That one sentence, I believe, is the cause that God has stuck around so much and why so many people believe...
Because if you were arguing/debating/discussing God with a believer, and you got them cornered, what would be the last thing they would say after they were trying to prove God? "Well, you have to have faith He is there.", which kind of gets rid of the point of them arguing over God's existence if they just said right there you can't prove God...... ANYWAY, that is why I think, well, one of the many reasons, religion has gotten so many people...

Because that one sentence basically says this: "You know more than I do, you can disprove God more than I can prove him so you win, but I am not going to give in because you have to just BELIEVE HE IS THERE [with no evidence to back it up]." - that's how I view it.

So just by people using "You have to have faith", that's an excuse to believe in something you have no reason to believe in, or you can't prove...


Comments?
(And have you seen Babylon A.D.? I love how is kind of criticizes religion in it   )

The problem with faith is that if it is sufficient to believe in something based on faith, you have to then question where the belief came from in the first place. In the case of Christianity, it's the Bible. But if faith is a sufficient reason for belief, then the belief in a celestial teapot orbiting around the sun between the Earth and Mars, for which there is equal evidence as the bible, is an equal belief, and they should believe in that too. I could draw a picture of a teapot, and then say "The teapot took control of my hand and drew it, so you should have faith that it exists, too, since it has the same level of credibility. While you're at it, you should have FAITH that unicorns, sea monsters, the Mountain Dew Goat, and Goron the Furry Fur Coat in the Sky."

What I'd really like to know is why people say you have to have faith to believe in God.  They think God is real - don't all you need to do is think God is real?

Quote from: "seasonsofmadness"I remember seeing an argument before that basically went like this:

"Believing in science is more of a cop-out than believing in religion. Anybody can believe in facts, but it takes a stronger person to rely on faith that God is there."

LOL!  I just saw that argument (or its inbred cousin) in response to a Yahoo Answers question.  Hmmm, I think it was one of my questions posted to whore out my articles.  Yep, here it is - "and i really don't like science... they try and explain everything with proof... and all you really need is faith in God." (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjtN2wyAGew8UEiBawNQl6Tsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20090122190336AAA4VFt)

I was quite pleased to see all of the rational responses when shamelessly pimping my evolution pieces.

I'm responding to your PS on Babylon AD.  First, I was most impressed with Vin in a towel, best part of the movie!  Other than that I was a little less enthusiastic about the rest of the movie, although I like the futuristic sci-fi, it always makes me happy that I won't be around since it's always doom and gloom:)

It was interesting how they ended it with the girl being made rather than born and how the mother (or whatever she was) was wanting to use the virgin birth to create "justification and legitimacy for the religion" whatever that was.  I still liked Riddick mch more!

Quote from: "Kylyssa"What I'd really like to know is why people say you have to have faith to believe in God.  They think God is real - don't all you need to do is think God is real?

 (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

They say that you need to have faith because if you think about it too much, im sorry, if you think about it at all the whole thing falls apart. The only way to believe is blindly. You can't use reason, you can't use logic, the only thing that works is the word that they made up for it, faith.

And we are supposed to respect these people? They believe something that, not only is supported by no evidence, but is also strongly opposed by much evidence.

Excuse me, but no, I will not respect that. It is ludicrous philosophy and should be treated as such.

I have a friend (ex-friend now according to her) that sends me pictures of Jesus and I'm supposed to send it to ten different people in order to be considered a Christian friend and this tells Jesus somehow how much I love him. It's a big joke to me. I explained to her that the Jesus story is a copy of the Horus god from Egypt and to her I have totally insulted her and her beliefs. Maybe. But I explained to her that she is praying to absolutely nothing but a made up figure in order for certain societies to rule over people and take advantage of their fears. She does what she does in order to not go to hell and thats it. I would say different but that is what the main idea of believing in whatever the priest say. I may have lost a friend but if she was a true friend she would have considered my point of view like she wanted me to have for hers but I didn't tell her good luck trying to find people that believe what you believe. I didn't even respond. Should I? I was just wandering.

I have trust issues & it makes it harder for me to have faith in just about everything, especially not something that hasn't been proven to exist.  

faith isnt as absurd as many people think if used in the right context

I have faith that the sun will rise based on the fact that its risen every other day that i've been alive
I have faith that if i stop breathing for long enough i will fall unconscious due to lack of O2 to the brain

Now Thats faith

Your "faith" on the sun rising is based on evidence, such as your previous experiments and your knowledge of solar system dynamics. You have no reason to beleive the sun will do anything other than rise tomorrow, in fact it would take something very major for the sun not to rise. Thus, your beleif in the sun's rising is supported by evidence, not faith.

As to the Oxygen and brain functioning, again, evidence supported. You have a knowledge of biology, you may have even done experiments regarding this particular facet of our physiology. You have also seen people pass out from lack of oxygen. Again, this is not faith, as it is supported by evidence.

Faith would be beleiving in something without evidence, like beleiving in pixies, despite the fact there is no evidence for them, and no postulated way in which they could exist.

Faith is a poor platform from which to determine truth.

i have faith when what i'm suppose to beilive in makes sense

The idea of "faith" to me makes me think of someone with a big imagination.  I used to believe that unicorns existed... I had faith.  I imagined that they existed.  However, I think we all know that unicorns don't exist on this planet...certainly no one can prove it.  Therefore, I could continue living in my dream world & believe in unicorns or I could see the reality that unicorns do not exist & move on with life from there.

I also get the feeling that those who believe in any religion are weak, needy ppl who honestly think that begging some invisible made-up deity to help them out or not allow bad things to happen to them will help them.  It is far more difficult to live without expectation & rely on our intellect to make it through life.  

Anyway, there's my opinion.  

~C

"Faith" is what you have when your beliefs are not supported by evidence.