The white evangelical Christian community is subjected to regular indoctrination which tells them that they're under siege; that Democrats and atheists want to deprive them of their rights. A significant percentage of them have come to believe it. This goes beyond the publicity-grabbing cases of shop owners refusing service to gay people and being taken to court, which is framed as an assault on "religious rights." A recent survey shows that there is fear in the white evangelical community regarding a perceived desire to deprive them of basic rights such as holding rallies, teaching, speaking freely, and running for public office.
"The Inverted Golden Rule: Are Atheists as Intolerant as Evangelicals Think They Are?" |
Religion in Public (https://religioninpublic.blog/2019/12/23/the-inverted-golden-rule-are-atheists-as-intolerant-as-evangelicals-think-they-are/)
QuoteAs the House has moved through the impeachment of President Trump, voices on the extreme right have been arguing that it's the first shot in a coming "civil war (https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/sandy-rios-backs-trumps-civil-war-warning-its-reality/)." According to conservative evangelical conspiracy theorist Rick Wiles (https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-says-hes-stockpiling-ammunition-to-prepare-for-a-violent-civil-war-between-pagan-left-and-religious-right/), "The Democrats are forcing me to stockpile ammunition, food, water, and medical supplies to defend my family, home, and church." In a speech (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-values-voter-summit/) before the Values Voter Summit, Trump similarly said that Democrats were coming for the rights of Christians, which he said he would resist if he stayed in office. Franklin Graham claims that "demonic forces (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/opinions-who-but-a-demon-could-impeach-god-e2-80-99s-chosen-one/ar-BBXkciD)" are pressing for the impeachment of someone that a significant proportion of evangelicals believe is God's anointed president (https://religionnews.com/2019/11/25/how-many-americans-believe-trump-is-anointed-by-god/).
But do white evangelical Protestants actually believe that Democrats will strip them of their rights? And is it true that Democrats and atheists want to strip evangelicals of their rights? A new survey has some answers.
Political scientist Ryan Burge and I ran a non-probability sample survey from May 17-18 of 1,010 U.S. Protestants, conducted online through Qualtrics Panels and weighted to resemble the diversity of Protestants in the country. White evangelical Protestants made up 60 percent of our sample.
Of those white evangelical Protestants, we found that 60 percent believed that atheists would not allow them First Amendment rights and liberties. More specifically, we asked whether they believed atheists would prevent them from being able to "hold rallies, teach, speak freely, and run for public office." Similarly, 58 percent believed "Democrats in Congress" would not allow them to exercise these liberties if they were in power. By contrast, 23 percent think "Republicans in Congress" would not respect their rights; those were primarily the views of a small contingent of white evangelical Democrats in the sample.
[Continues . . . (https://religioninpublic.blog/2019/12/23/the-inverted-golden-rule-are-atheists-as-intolerant-as-evangelicals-think-they-are/)]
They are suffering from Information Disease, which they get from their leaders and Fox News. The disease takes over the brain and is usually fatal - intellectual activity and logic usually die with a few years. I'm a Christian and can not identify one single right or liberty that I have lost.
Make them afraid and their fear will override their rationality and they will be led anywhere the manipulators wish. There's obviously a very happy Pied Piper somewhere...
I always thought it was interesting why some Christians like to think they are in some sort of 'spiritual war' with non-Christians. Or American Christians thinking they're being persecuted for their beliefs like the early Christians did when theirs was an incipient religion. How can someone be so blind and lack minimal situational awareness?
If christards are unable to chastise, oppress and victimize, if they are unable to parade their moral superiority then their insolent little yaptraps bellow of bigotry and persecution.
The fringe element evangelicals are a danger to our freedom to make our own decisions. That would not be so serious a problem were there not so many of them.
I would like to live and let live but that is not a shared attitude. The nutters insist that theirs is the only way to think and behave. Ignorance and bigotry will be the end of us if we allow the kooks to command the elections, the selection of judges, and the rules of society.
Try not to think about these things and have a nice day.
There's a lot of projection going on with white evangelicals. And I was frankly shocked that the percentage of agnostics and atheists who would be willing to deprive religious extremists of any rights was as high as it was. I'd have expected it to be in the single digits, just out of wariness of setting that kind of precedent.
Sadly, being atheist and/or agnostic doesn't make one immune from being a shameless arsehole with an occluded view of human rights and only a faint grasp of political reality.
Is it possible that the whole concept of equal rights, Liberty, and respect of others is only a pipe dream that is unattainable? Can we overcome our tribal nature? I'm just not so sure anymore.
Equal rights and the fair treatment of all, is a beautiful concept. But as long as those who wield power continue to force feed ugly ignorant lies to young impressionable minds, the concept will remain a work of fairy tales.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 30, 2019, 02:51:11 AM
Is it possible that the whole concept of equal rights, Liberty, and respect of others is only a pipe dream that is unattainable? Can we overcome our tribal nature? I'm just not so sure anymore.
It's possible. However the issue is that our process of self-government, democracy, is open to abuse which results in the likes of Trump and Boris Johnson. The closest we have got to the ideal are possibly Sweden and Norway. But they are small populations and a history of valuing cohesion over individuality.
people dont change.
in a thousand years we will have hate, war, violence, extremism, love, savagery, richez, and poverty, just like we do now
Quote from: billy rubin on December 30, 2019, 09:10:23 AM
people dont change.
in a thousand years we will have hate, war, violence, extremism, love, savagery, richez, and poverty, just like we do now.
Assuming the human race isn't extinct by then. Happy New Year!
Quote from: billy rubin on December 30, 2019, 09:10:23 AM
people dont change.
in a thousand years we will have hate, war, violence, extremism, love, savagery, richez, and poverty, just like we do now
I'm afraid you are right. The few examples of workable societies don't seem to apply to mega states like the US, made up of people from all over the world. And it doesn't work for nation to nation relations. So, I'm not hopeful.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 30, 2019, 02:51:11 AM
Is it possible that the whole concept of equal rights, Liberty, and respect of others is only a pipe dream that is unattainable? Can we overcome our tribal nature? I'm just not so sure anymore.
I doubt it's fully attainable. And in moments when (generally small) communities do attain equal rights in both theory and practice, it's taken for granted and can be easily lost under the threat of conflict or when an us-vs.-them situation arises. People are just so manipulatable, and so fear-driven, that they will willingly give up their ability to think for themselves in favour of demagogues and tyrants.
The powerful seek more power and the powerless who give them the power they seek might feel falsely empowered themselves. In the end it seems like it's all just a bunch of tribes electing powerful representatives who they feel will protect their own interests.
No offence intended but more surprising to me than reading the survey results is reading how pessimistic some of the responses right here seem to be.
Cheer up. There's bound to be statistical setbacks and actual temporary reversals in the otherwise very real long-term trend humanity is experiencing in the move toward economic and social egalitarianism and away from the tyranny of the tough guy. Remember that a thousand years ago, when Christerdom really ruled all, almost all of our own ancestors would have been bogged down in a life of abject Feudal poverty, disease, near zero personal liberty, living in a tiny hovel of decaying chinked tree limbs, taking in the hay by hand and shoveling shit out of His Lordship's Manor stables. And dying miserably at ~age thirty after a crappy lifetime of total service to His Feudal Master. I hope I'm no silly Panglossian, mindlessly singing "All's for the best in this the best of all possible worlds!" but I do perceive an absolute long term positive progressive trend. It may be that people's anatomy and physiology aren't changing but our nurturing social environments sure have changed -- for the better. One small but dramatic example:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fempathygap.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2Fgraph-of-men-and-women-eligible-to-vote.jpg&hash=6248e756eaf40b0d445791d29554478bfeca4618)
According to the chart, we've had 100 years of everyone being eligible to vote (about the same in the US), and the result is Trump and Johnson. I would like to believe, as MLK said, that the arc of history bends toward justice, but there are just too many places where it's bending the other way. But, here's hoping.
Quote from: Inertialmass on January 02, 2020, 06:35:07 AM
No offence intended but more surprising to me than reading the survey results is reading how pessimistic some of the responses right here seem to be.
Cheer up. There's bound to be statistical setbacks and actual temporary reversals in the otherwise very real long-term trend humanity is experiencing in the move toward economic and social egalitarianism and away from the tyranny of the tough guy. Remember that a thousand years ago, when Christerdom really ruled all, almost all of our own ancestors would have been bogged down in a life of abject Feudal poverty, disease, near zero personal liberty, living in a tiny hovel of decaying chinked tree limbs, taking in the hay by hand and shoveling shit out of His Lordship's Manor stables. And dying miserably at ~age thirty after a crappy lifetime of total service to His Feudal Master. I hope I'm no silly Panglossian, mindlessly singing "All's for the best in this the best of all possible worlds!" but I do perceive an absolute long term positive progressive trend. It may be that people's anatomy and physiology aren't changing but our nurturing social environments sure have changed -- for the better. One small but dramatic example:
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fempathygap.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2Fgraph-of-men-and-women-eligible-to-vote.jpg&hash=6248e756eaf40b0d445791d29554478bfeca4618)
Valid points, but I feel like we should be more 'evolved' by now.
Not to derail the thread but I did not see an appropriate place for this important announcement. January 25th is the official Chinese new year. It is the year of the rat. Please be kind to your rodents this year.
kong hee fat choy
(https://i.imgur.com/Ie4S9Xy.jpg)
^ :lol:
^ I do not put much confidence in biblical predictions......but this one has become frighteningly near the truth.
I remember when I was a xtian. The devil and his demons were out in force and Christians were being persecuted. The end times was here and it wouldn't be long and we'd be fighting alongside Jesus any day now. It's been forty years plus and the same message gets preached. We had to save as many as we could and to be wary of the evils hiding in the bushes.
I wish he'd hurry up. I'm getting tired of waiting although I don't think any of us will be around then, nor our grandchildren, nor our great-grandchildren, etc. I don't want to fight, I just want to watch it on TV.
Quote from: Randy on June 01, 2020, 08:31:36 PM
I remember when I was a xtian. The devil and his demons were out in force and Christians were being persecuted. The end times was here and it wouldn't be long and we'd be fighting alongside Jesus any day now. It's been forty years plus and the same message gets preached. We had to save as many as we could and to be wary of the evils hiding in the bushes.
I wish he'd hurry up. I'm getting tired of waiting although I don't think any of us will be around then, nor our grandchildren, nor our great-grandchildren, etc. I don't want to fight, I just want to watch it on TV.
I think we are :(