https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/13/us/no-religion-largest-group-first-time-usa-trnd/index.html
An interesting turn of events. I doubt the same trend will repeat itself in Brazil any time soon, though. :(
That headline is deceptive. It's only accurate if you divide up the Christians into specific categories. According to the survey results, Christians outnumber "nones" by a bit over two to one.
Quote from: Recusant on April 14, 2019, 02:56:41 AM
That headline is deceptive. It's only accurate if you divide up the Christians into specific categories. According to the survey results, Christians outnumber "nones" by a bit over two to one.
I take your point, but the trend line is going the right way...
Quote from: Recusant on April 14, 2019, 02:56:41 AM
That headline is deceptive. It's only accurate if you divide up the Christians into specific categories. According to the survey results, Christians outnumber "nones" by a bit over two to one.
Dividing Christians into groups is justified. It is not a monolithic religion, theologically, politically, socially, ethnically, or any other "ly".
Nor are the "nones" a monolithic bloc, including as they do agnostics, atheists, "I'm spiritual but not religious" and "I believe in God, I just don't believe in any particular religion" types, New Age woo believers and who knows what else. Yet there they are, supposedly the "largest" group.
If the pollsters go to the trouble of distinguishing between Catholics and Episcopalians but ignore the difference between atheists and the "God but not a particular religion" category, then they're failing at a fundamental level to present an accurate result. I was being mild when I said "deceptive."
I suspect that the whole bit is hogwash. My community is not particularly religious but the believers outnumber the nones by a wide margin as far as I can tell.
In fairness a beautiful large Baptist church, across the street from my house. went down the drain. The congregation was shrinking. What happened was remarkable. An outfit called Grace City, the Hillsong Group, Church bought the building and now.......Holy kuamoley, every Sunday there are 500 cars that show up in the churche's parking lot. The police have to post a traffic handling assignment there.
Does not look like a decline in church or religious commitment to me.
Quote from: Icarus on April 15, 2019, 02:36:04 AM
I suspect that the whole bit is hogwash. My community is not particularly religious but the believers outnumber the nones by a wide margin as far as I can tell.
In fairness a beautiful large Baptist church, across the street from my house. went down the drain. The congregation was shrinking. What happened was remarkable. An outfit called Grace City, the Hillsong Group, Church bought the building and now.......Holy kuamoley, every Sunday there are 500 cars that show up in the churche's parking lot. The police have to post a traffic handling assignment there.
Does not look like a decline in church or religious commitment to me.
I'm sure I read that Christianity in general is declining with the exception of evangelical types.
It may be that the growth of the "nones" in the US has hit its peak.
"Is the rise of the nones slowing? Scholars say maybe" |
Religious News Service (https://religionnews.com/2020/02/11/is-the-decline-in-religious-affiliation-slowing-some-scholars-say-maybe/)
QuoteFor the past 25 years, the number of Americans claiming no religion has steadily ballooned as more and more people quit church, synagogue or mosque and openly acknowledged being a "none."
The reality is particularly stark when looked at from a generational perspective. If 10% of people from the silent generation (born 1928-1945) consider themselves religiously unaffiliated, a whopping 40% of millennials (born 1981-1996) say they have no religion, according to Pew Research (https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/).
But this week, three political scientists who study religion have raised the possibility that the number of nones may be leveling off. Looking at a set of recent surveys, they suggest Generation Z, broadly defined as the 68 million Americans born after 1996, don't look any less religious than the millennial generation that came before.
"I was just shocked to see it," said Paul Djupe, a professor at Denison University in Granville, Ohio. "Everything led me to expect that (the number of nones) would keep increasing for a while."
The initial suggestion that the decline of religious affiliation seems to be slowing came from political scientist Melissa Deckman of Washington College in Chestertown, Maryland. Deckman interviewed 2,200 Americans ages 18-23 this past summer, asking them a host of questions, including whether they have a religious affiliation and how often they attend religious services.
When she compared those numbers to a 2016 Public Religion Research Institute survey, she found striking similarities (https://religioninpublic.blog/2020/02/10/generation-z-and-religion-what-new-data-show/) between those in her study of Generation Z and older millennials. In both generational cohorts, 38% said they consider themselves to have no religion.
"Up to this point there's been a very fast drop-off, especially among younger people," Deckman said. "It seems to have slowed somewhat."
Two other political scientists – Djupe and Ryan Burge — then looked at other datasets, including the 2018 General Social Survey, the Cooperative Congressional Election Study and a Voter Study Group. They found those surveys confirmed (https://religioninpublic.blog/2020/02/10/the-decline-of-religion-may-be-slowing/) Deckman's thesis about slowing rates of religious disaffiliation among Gen Z.
There are a couple of possible explanations for the slowing of religious decline:
The country's growing racial diversity
The United States will soon be a minority-majority country. Scholars project that might happen between 2041 and 2046, depending on the amount of net immigration into the U.S.
That's important in terms of religion because minority groups such as African Americans, Hispanics and immigrants from Africa and Asia tend to be more religious than American whites.
[. . .]
The culture war sorting is mostly over
The past few decades have been marked by a host of divisive social and political issues, including abortion, women's rights, LGBTQ rights and same-sex marriage. Many religious congregations used to be a lot more diverse on a range of issues. But they have become less so, as both liberals and conservatives have joined up with like-minded congregants or dropped out of religion altogether.
[. . .]
A changing social desirability bias
This is a related phenomenon. Americans once embraced their religious identities. They are now more willing to admit they don't have one because it's no longer socially desirable to declare an affiliation.
"A lot of marginally attached Protestants and Catholics who went once a year used to say they were Catholic or Protestant," said Burge, a political scientist at Eastern Illinois University in Charleston, Illinois. "But now it's easier to say you're a 'none.' So they say, 'I'm not religious at all.'"
[Continues . . . (https://religionnews.com/2020/02/11/is-the-decline-in-religious-affiliation-slowing-some-scholars-say-maybe/)]
More on the "nones" and atheists in the US . . .
"The number of religious 'nones' has soared, but not the number of atheists – and as social scientists, we wanted to know why" |
The Conversation (https://theconversation.com/the-number-of-religious-nones-has-soared-but-not-the-number-of-atheists-and-as-social-scientists-we-wanted-to-know-why-228852)
QuoteThe number of individuals in the United States who do not identify as being part of any religion (https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2024/01/24/religious-nones-in-america-who-they-are-and-what-they-believe/) has grown dramatically in recent years, and "the nones" are now larger than any single religious group. According to the General Social Survey, religiously unaffiliated people represented only about 5% of the U.S. population in the 1970s. This percentage began to increase in the 1990s and is around 30% today.
At first glance, some might assume this means nearly 1 in 3 Americans are atheists, but that's far from true. Indeed, only about 4% of U.S. adults identify as an atheist (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/07/8-facts-about-atheists/).
As sociologists who study religion in the U.S., we wanted to find out more about the gap between these percentages and why some individuals identify as an atheist while other unaffiliated individuals do not.
[. . .]
[R]ejecting a belief in God is by no means a sufficient condition for identifying as an atheist. So why do some individuals who do not believe in God identify as an atheist while others do not?
Our study found (https://academic.oup.com/sf/article-abstract/97/4/1731/5078441) that there are a number of other social forces associated with the likelihood of an individual identifying as an atheist, above and beyond their disbelief in God – particularly stigma.
Many Americans eye atheists with suspicion and distaste. Notably, some social science surveys in the U.S. include questions asking about how much tolerance people have for atheists alongside questions about tolerance of racists and communists.
This stigma means that being an atheist comes with potential social costs, especially in certain communities. We see this dynamic play out in our data.
[Continues . . . (https://theconversation.com/the-number-of-religious-nones-has-soared-but-not-the-number-of-atheists-and-as-social-scientists-we-wanted-to-know-why-228852)]
The paper is behind a paywall (though linked at "our study found" in the quoted text).
Interesting.
Quote from: Tank on May 09, 2024, 09:25:17 AMInteresting.
Hypothesis: It may be self-selecting, and to some extent self-perpetuating.
To acknowledge one's atheism in the US is to be willing to accept that some people will view you in a negative light. It takes a thickish skin to do that, and some level of disregard for the opinions of others.
With this hypothetical self-selection we winnow out the more meek and obliging sorts, which results in a higher percentage (than the general population) of outspoken types, and certainly a higher percentage of arrogant arses. American self-acknowledged atheists therefore may include a disproportionately large element who're snide and overbearing about it. This helps reinforce the negative image of atheists in the US. :thoughtful:
;)
The 'Hitchens' effect?
Quote from: Tank on May 09, 2024, 10:48:01 PMThe 'Hitchens' effect?
I like that one, well done,
Tank, :thumb:
Yup. Nobody likes getting "Hitch-slapped". :D
Quote from: Tank on May 09, 2024, 10:48:01 PMThe 'Hitchens' effect?
Is that Hitchens's razor?
"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
Quote from: zorkan on May 10, 2024, 01:03:28 PMQuote from: Tank on May 09, 2024, 10:48:01 PMThe 'Hitchens' effect?
Is that Hitchens's razor?
"what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
Not in this case. If you look at Recusant's post it's the synthesis of atheism in the American environment. A cycle of refinement that make atheists appear outspoken which means that only outspoken atheists bother to get involved in debate and around it goes.
Not many of us are outspoken without cause. It is prudent here to avoid conversations about religion. The ultra christian element can become rabid and dangerous. Their "turn the other cheek" deal does not seem to be working for them.
I am more than willing to enter into a spirited discussion when prompted to do so. But that depends on the mind set of the other person or persons. My usual attitude is to ignore the people who are unwilling to carry on a meaningful conversation.
The hard shell religious folk, along with the MAGA crowd, have a condition sometimes described as conditioned bias. The more you argue with them the more entrenched they become. When shown the fallacies in their reasoning they anchor their resistance even more firmly. When dealing with people of that variety there is no use talking to them..........
There are plenty of people like that in the UK, and I don't know why.
Some people just like going to church (no problem with that), but others stand up on outdoor platforms to spout out their venom.
As there is no point in arguing with them, I just ask questions.
"Is slavery permitted by the Bible?"
"Is the Earth flat?"
"Is it 6000 years old?"
"How did kangaroos find their own way to the Ark?"
"How is a man born of a ghost?"
"Did the saints rise from their graves?"
By which time I'm getting bored at their absurd beliefs.
I can even discover they haven't even read the bible.
Fastest growing in UK:
https://www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/elim-is-one-of-the-fastest-growing-church-movements-in-the-uk-heres-why/13171.article
More recently with the influx of Hong Kongers the Chinese church is fastest growing.
https://www.biblesociety.org.uk/latest/news/chinese-church-is-the-fastest-growing-in-the-uk-report-finds/
https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1011968