Happy Atheist Forum

Hey,

Just to get all the necessary caveats out of the way: Yes, I'm a Christian. Yes, I tend more towards the conservative end of the spectrum theologically (if not politically). Yes, I accept that the theory of evolution is just that--a theory, i.e. something generally accepted because it has sufficient evidence to move beyond a speculation stage into something more along the lines of fact.

Kay, now all that's over with.

I've been forced once again to confront my own doubts about my faith (Terry Pratchett's Carpe Jugulum was the motivator, in case you're curious). As I was thinking about all this--God, and morality, and whether I believe this because I believe it or because my parents believed it--I was suddenly struck by a question: Do atheists ever doubt their atheism?

So, without further ado, I'd like to present a quick poll:

1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force
a) never
b) infrequently (once a month to once a year)
c) fairly frequently (several times a month)
d) frequently (several times a week)
2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
a) never
b) infrequently (once a month to once a year)
c) fairly frequently (several times a month)
d) frequently (several times a week)
3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
a) never
b) infrequently (once a month to once a year)
c) fairly frequently (several times a month)
d) frequently (several times a week)
4) I believe that morality is absolute
a) Yes
b) No
c) Sometimes I think it is, sometimes I think it isn't

And, a quick followup question to 4): If I believe morality to be absolute, I believe this on the basis of _____.

I realize the follow-up mirrors a traditional theist argument, but I'm not trying to stir up trouble here. Just curious how you guys feel about your disbelief. (In case your wondering, my answers are: I doubt God's existence fairly frequently; I doubt the historicity of the Bible frequently; I doubt my belief in the afterlife fairly frequently; and I usually believe that morality is absolute, though my basis outside of Scripture is slight).

Austin Schaefer

1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force
a) never
2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
b) infrequently (once a month to once a year)
3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
a) never
4) I believe that morality is absolute
b) No

An asterisk for 2, I do look into some of the non-supernatural events in the Bible and have found that some may be historically accurate.

Quote from: "AncientToaster"1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force

a) never (This question is poorly formulated. You can't doubt a disbelief, but you can doubt the existence of a divine force. The proper question would be (How strongly) do you believe in god(s)?)

Quote from: "AncientToaster"2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible

a) never (Again, this question is somewhat fishy. I don't accept the Bible as a history book, no. Again, it should have been (how strongly) do you believe the Bible to be historically correct? )

Quote from: "AncientToaster"3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife

a) never (I do not believe in afterlife. The proper question would be: (How stronly) do you believe in the afterlife? ... ... Ok, no more semantics   )

Quote from: "AncientToaster"4) I believe that morality is absolute

d) I don't really care, but lean towards b) no.

Sorry for the awkward wording--it sounded stupid to me when I posted it.

However, I'm not really intending to ask how strongly someone disagrees/agrees with these positions; rather, I'm curious as to how frequently people doubt their positions on it. I know what many of my Christian friends experience, but I have little to go on for how frequently atheists doubt their lack of faith. Hence my curiosity on that specific element.

Austin Schaefer

EDIT: Added "lack of" before "faith".

Quote from: "AncientToaster"Sorry for the awkward wording--it sounded stupid to me when I posted it.

However, I'm not really intending to ask how strongly someone disagrees/agrees with these positions; rather, I'm curious as to how frequently people doubt their positions on it. I know what many of my Christian friends experience, but I have little to go on for how frequently atheists doubt their faith. Hence my curiosity on that specific element.

Austin Schaefer

Hehe... don't mind me. The questions were understandable and that's what matters.

As for how often atheists doubt their lack of faith... I think most of us rarely do. You see, we tend to require solid evidence before we accept such concepts as gods or afterlife and thus, until presented with such evidence, we don't usually find ourselves questioning our lack of belief, except in some special cases (take a look at the "How many atheists convert to theism" - or something like it - thread. Some such reasons are listed there.)

( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1558 (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1558) <<here is the link to the thread I mentioned)

I think I speak for the vast majority of atheists when I state that.

I'm not listing letters and numbers, as that's the most boring way possible to run this thread and it's not like you're aggregating them anyway. If you are, you'll have no trouble decyphering my answers.

I doubt my disbelief all the time. Why wouldn't I? That's the mentality that got me here in the first place. There is no harm in doubting disbelief. Most of us got here by reasoning that there's no evidence in God or the supernatural, and that reasoning does not require declaring anything impossible or 100% nonexistent. Most atheists consider God extremely unlikely, which is enough not to believe in him.

So do I wonder about God? Yes, but not often.
Do I wonder about the Bible? Very, very rarely.
Do I wonder about the afterlife? Often.
Do I consider morality absolute? I don't know how to answer that question. I definitely don't think we've figured out absolute morality, but there's a possibility we might figure it out someday.

QuoteI know what many of my Christian friends experience, but I have little to go on for how frequently atheists doubt their faith.

There's no faith involved in atheism. Atheist is what you call a person without faith.

QuoteI know what many of my Christian friends experience, but I have little to go on for how frequently atheists doubt their faith.

There's no faith involved in atheism. Atheist is what you call a person without faith.[/quote]

D'oh. Good point. I'll fix that. XD

1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force
a) never

2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
a) never

3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
a) never

4) I believe that morality is absolute
b) No

I am constantly faced with the ludicrous ideas of religion so my disbelief is constantly validated.  Not a day goes by that I'm not forced to face some aspect of the Christian god.  The bible is a book that everyone should read thoroughly, if for no other reason than it is an important aspect of our country's history.  There are some very good sense lessons therein, as well as some very mean, hurtful and dangerous ideas.  I cannot worship the god of the bible... not now, not ever.  I have no belief in an afterlife.  We die, that's that.  I try to live my life in as moral a way that I know how... and I train my son the same way.

Good luck with your soul-searching (not that I believe in a soul, you understand...   ).

QuoteThe bible is a book that everyone should read thoroughly, if for no other reason than it is an important aspect of our country's history.

Here's a very good venue for reading it:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/)

We truly live in the greatest age in history.

Oohh I like these....

1.) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force
b) [very] infrequently (once a month to once a year) --- God was my life for a long time. It's hard to completely let go and not have doubts about my doubts.

2.) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
a.) never. ---The Bible is like the Odyssey to me. Only I don't read it as often    I lost my faith in the Bible before God. It was easier to let go.

3.) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
b.) [very, very] infrequently (once a month to once a year) ---my future career [I hope] will be in funeral services. Death (fear of "life after death") doesn't scare me. It's the just-before-death part that does... But I do sometimes think about the existence of a soul (which is usually what belief in afterlife stems from). Hell sometimes enters my mind, more in a thoughtful rather than fearful way.  

4.) I believe that morality is absolute
No. --- That pretty much speaks for itself...

* * *

This made me think, thank you! I have doubts all the time of course, which I don't think is a bad thing. I would be worried if I didn't question my views.

1. never
2. never
3. never
4. no

The only one to explain further is number 2.
Learn about Bible history - who actually wrote what books, when they were written, and how the thing was put together. It's all the work of men. The majority of it doesn't even read well as fiction, much less history; the prophecies can be read into anything; the miracles and supernatural occurrences are misunderstood phenomena or just wishful thinking.

1) I [strike:365gpysa]doubt[/strike:365gpysa] question my disbelief in a divine force
b) infrequently (once a month to once a year)

2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
a) never

3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
a) never (though I can see the appeal--seeing loved ones, leaving pain behind, etc.)

4) I believe that morality is absolute
c) Sometimes I think it is, sometimes I think it isn't (the relatively small number of absolute moral laws I do believe in are like the foundation to a house... once they're in place, any culture can build whatever they like upon them, and while they may look entirely different, they're all founded on pretty much the same thing; this is just my opinion, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me)

The way I see it, things are completely relative in the sense that everything depends on perception and position, and there is no true meaning available (which is difficult for us, as we are hard-wired to make meaning out of both consequential and inconsequential things). Guess I'm just too post-modern for my own good.

Quote from: "susangail"Death (fear of "life after death") doesn't scare me. It's the just-before-death part that does...

Seconded. Well, more or less. I am not scared by the prospect of not existing, but I do find some ways of dieing un-nerving.  

1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force
a) never

2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
a) never

Seriously? People lived for hundreds of years in the bible, it's pretty obvious it's writing based on stories handed down from generation to generation, like myth and legend. It should be read and understood the same as something like Aesop's Fables.

3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
a) never

Why believe in something that's so outside anything you've experienced in life or that we've learned through time as a race? Oh yeah, because it sounds comforting when you're talking about death and no longer existing.

4) I believe that morality is absolute
b) No

Our morality has changed drastically in just the past 100 years it's definitely not absolute. It used to be moral to force your daughter to marry a man that raped her. It used to be moral to own slaves and treat them as property. We build and shape our morals as a society and we have seen a huge change in our morals since mankind has moved into cities and less rural populations.

1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force
never

2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
never


3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
a) never

4) I believe that morality is absolute
No

Quote from: "AncientToaster"Hey,
1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force
a) never
I have in the past worried if my thinking is right.But that was 6 years ago.Honestly I could care less if I am wrong and there is a God.He/She/It has never shown the slightest interest in helping the human race.

2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
a) never
I refuse to put any faith into a book that says slavery,sexism,murder,child abuse etc.. is ok.There is a passage "For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does..." 1 Corinthians 7:4 I as a woman would love to see the bible burned and banned for the hate it spreads.


3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
a)never
There is no proof to support a soul or spirit.Ghost pictures float around but most are easily explained.Alot a hoax.People can be easily fooled because the want so much to believe.

4) I believe that morality is absolute
c) Sometimes I think it is, sometimes I think it isn't
Now this I'm not to sure about.I believe it depends on where you are in the world,time and many other things.

I'm at the point in my life I don't want to waste the time I have fighting and "debating" over if god was ever truly there.Just look at the natural world around you,that is mother nature not some object in the sky.But look at the people that is god not mother nature..I don't mean a sky god,I mean god as in those who created him.Men and women of course created someone in their image to love them eternal,always be the parent and keeper.

Quote1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force

No, physics hasn't let me down yet (though it is mighty inconvenient at times).

Quote2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible

No, I'm pretty sure that the King James version of the Bible contradicts itself enough to keep me firmly in this camp (not to mention that other sects of Christianity have their own "bibles" with more "canons" than the KJvB).

Quote3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife

No.  It might be neat if it were true but once again, there's nothing that convinces me that there might be an afterlife that isn't selfish in nature.

Quote4) I believe that morality is absolute

No.  I'd like it to be but reality rarely conforms to my wishes.

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"physics hasn't let me down yet (though it is mighty inconvenient at times).

*deep in memories of better days* oO(There was this one time I was flying in a dream. I must have been... Four..? Four to six, anyways. So I woke up convinced that the stunt could be repeated. Needless to say, the stack of crates I made was about one meter fifty. And one meter fifty was the exact distance of the flight. Cursed and thrice cursed be the theory of Gravity! It's all Newton's fault. )

I'm surprised by so many fellow atheists answering "no" or "never" to these questions. Religion is born of instincts to child-like wonderment, instincts you can supplant but never really eliminate. Your rational mind may be disciplined and formal, but what's the harm in wondering from time to time? That's one of the benefits of atheism: you can take religious quandary lightly, like the academic exercise it is. Is there an afterlife? "Extremely unlikely" is different from "impossible." You don't owe it to your credentials to wipe mere curiosity from your mind. If you truly don't even doubt your own doubts, I'm baffled as to how you ever even arrived at atheism in the first place.

Quote from: "Loffler"I'm surprised by so many fellow atheists answering "no" or "never" to these questions. Religion is born of instincts to child-like wonderment, instincts you can supplant but never really eliminate. Your rational mind may be disciplined and formal, but what's the harm in wondering from time to time? That's one of the benefits of atheism: you can take religious quandary lightly, like the academic exercise it is. Is there an afterlife? "Extremely unlikely" is different from "impossible." You don't owe it to your credentials to wipe mere curiosity from your mind. If you truly don't even doubt your own doubts, I'm baffled as to how you ever even arrived at atheism in the first place.

But is my doubt based on want or actually having seen something that has changed the very core of my being?

If I'm ignorant of something being impossible is it still possible?  If there is nothing on my desk in front of me, it there not a book of stamps on my desk? or a kitten? or a pile of rotten meat?  If nothing is in front of me then the nothing can be anything.

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"If nothing is in front of me then the nothing can be anything.

THAT, I like.  :D

... ...

[willpower failure]Empty! But... But...   [/willpower]

QuoteIf nothing is in front of me then the nothing can be anything.

Well, that's kinda my point. Atheists are free to wonder if there's a Star-Trek-like truth to the meta-structure of the universe, if we're one card in an intricate card castle of adjoining, symbiotic universes, if we're a child-like super-being's plaything, if we're in a matrix-like computer simulation, if we're an arcade game played by the spirit world, if...

These are fun games to us. We don't have to take them seriously or wonder if we're pissing God off with our informal mental exercises. When it's time to get serious, sure, it's all about the scientific method and believing what there's proof in and withholding belief when there's not proof, etc. But look at it this way: if you were a skeptic living in a time before the discovery of the western continents, but had heard stories of their existence, would there be anything philosophical "sinful" about wondering?

I don't see the plausibility of Christianity. I mean, if I had been born somewhere else I might have grown up, lived a long life, and died without ever hearing about a singular god or his son dying for "sins".

I don't understand what I would doubt? I've read most of the bible, many parts multiple times. I would be terribly depressed if I truly thought we were living under a microscope that some great being is watching. Do Christians really believe a god is watching and analyzing everything you do? He'd have to be a sadistic voyeur.

 I would go so far as to say if the god from the bible was real, manifested himself in front of me at this very moment - I would never follow him. I would accept his existence, but to follow a god as terrible as the bible portrays is not worthy of my praise, worship, or life.

Quote from: "mrwynd"Do Christians really believe a god is watching and analyzing everything you do?

Yes.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "susangail"Death (fear of "life after death") doesn't scare me. It's the just-before-death part that does...

Seconded. Well, more or less. I am not scared by the prospect of not existing, but I do find some ways of dieing un-nerving.  

Yeah that's what I meant. Death (nothingness) itself doesn't scare me. It's how it's gonna happen (like slow and painfully) that does.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Jolly Sapper"If nothing is in front of me then the nothing can be anything.

THAT, I like.  :D

... ...

[willpower failure]Empty! But... But...  roflol  
I like that too Jolly Sapper.

Quote from: "AncientToaster"Hey,
1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force

none of the above

I don't think it is possible to be certain that a non-involved non-religious based creative force that we would not define as natural does not or did not exist.   I do not question my disbelief in religious notions of gods because they are all obviously  man-made.  I do not question my disbelief in an involved god because, imho, it is obvious that a no deity is interacting with our universe.

Quote2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible

a) never

While some parts of it may be based on historical events/places, there is a lot of magic, contradictions, and exaggeration in there.

Quote3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife

a) never

As much as certain afterlife types may be desirable, I have come across no reason to think one exists.  I will sometimes what if the idea of an afterlife, but that's just for the fun as a mind exercise.

Quote4) I believe that morality is absolute

b) No

I think a quick study of history proves that, while some moral concepts have been largely stable over time, their interpretations and use in practice have changed drastically.  If there is something that could be an absolute moral it would be something along the lines of 'don't kill or harm those whom you depend on'.  I think morality is something which evolves with societies (in all pack based animals in various levels) and is rooted in the need to be able to get along with each other in order to survive.  I have been known to state that morality is absolutely based on humanity...but I don't say that anymore since it is an improper usage of absolute, should not be strictly associated with humanity, and tends to confuse things.

Quote from: "Loffler"I'm surprised by so many fellow atheists answering "no" or "never" to these questions. Religion is born of instincts to child-like wonderment, instincts you can supplant but never really eliminate. Your rational mind may be disciplined and formal, but what's the harm in wondering from time to time? That's one of the benefits of atheism: you can take religious quandary lightly, like the academic exercise it is. Is there an afterlife? "Extremely unlikely" is different from "impossible." You don't owe it to your credentials to wipe mere curiosity from your mind. If you truly don't even doubt your own doubts, I'm baffled as to how you ever even arrived at atheism in the first place.

I haven't always been athiest I was a light theist as a child.But as a child I also didn't believe much that was in the bible.I think some do doubt for a few sparing moments their atheism,but I know for me those where moments of fear.A fear that maybe everyone theist and atheist are wrong.What if there is something beyond a god that we could never understand.What if all human meaning of god is totally off.Those moments are few and far between I haven't had one for 6 years.Things are different for everyone.Can you really know if what you see is the same thing someone else sees.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "susangail"Death (fear of "life after death") doesn't scare me. It's the just-before-death part that does...

Seconded. Well, more or less. I am not scared by the prospect of not existing, but I do find some ways of dieing un-nerving.  :eek2:

Quote from: "Loffler"I'm surprised by so many fellow atheists answering "no" or "never" to these questions. Religion is born of instincts to child-like wonderment, instincts you can supplant but never really eliminate. Your rational mind may be disciplined and formal, but what's the harm in wondering from time to time? That's one of the benefits of atheism: you can take religious quandary lightly, like the academic exercise it is. Is there an afterlife? "Extremely unlikely" is different from "impossible." You don't owe it to your credentials to wipe mere curiosity from your mind. If you truly don't even doubt your own doubts, I'm baffled as to how you ever even arrived at atheism in the first place.

I've got a quote that answers this better than I ever could:

"I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say that one is an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or agnostic. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time."
--Isaac Asimov

Quote from: "rlrose328"

Quote from: "Loffler"I'm surprised by so many fellow atheists answering "no" or "never" to these questions. Religion is born of instincts to child-like wonderment, instincts you can supplant but never really eliminate. Your rational mind may be disciplined and formal, but what's the harm in wondering from time to time? That's one of the benefits of atheism: you can take religious quandary lightly, like the academic exercise it is. Is there an afterlife? "Extremely unlikely" is different from "impossible." You don't owe it to your credentials to wipe mere curiosity from your mind. If you truly don't even doubt your own doubts, I'm baffled as to how you ever even arrived at atheism in the first place.

I've got a quote that answers this better than I ever could:

"I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say that one is an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or agnostic. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time."
--Isaac Asimov

This would mean you agree with me, as I also consider God extremely unlikely and probably nonexistent.

Quote from: "Loffler"This would mean you agree with me, as I also consider God extremely unlikely and probably nonexistent.

If that's the way you want to interpret it, sure.

My point is that I choose to say, with certainty, that I do not believe there is a god and I do not want to waste my time fantacizing that there is, no matter how much whimsy or entertainment value it may provide.  I've got a multitude of other things to dream about... like whether I'll have grandchildren some day or if I'll even be ALIVE to see them.  THAT I'd gladly waste thought cycles on.

Ah, so you never doubt it because you never think about it. That makes more sense.

Quote from: "Loffler"Ah, so you never doubt it because you never think about it. That makes more sense.

Wow, and I thought CHRISTIANS were the only ones to twist someone's words to fit their own purpose.   :unsure:

On the contrary, I think about religion and god and the existence of a creator much more than I'd like.  But 99% of the time, it's from the stance that said god and creator does not exist... and that his fan club pisses me off.  

That other one percent?  Probably me thinking:  "Popcorn, popcorn, popcorn, popcorn..."

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't make my POV any less valid.

Quote from: "rlrose328"Wow, and I thought CHRISTIANS were the only ones to twist someone's words to fit their own purpose.   :unsure:

I do it to Christians... When I can be bothered to  

Quote from: "rlrose328"

Quote from: "Loffler"Ah, so you never doubt it because you never think about it. That makes more sense.

Wow, and I thought CHRISTIANS were the only ones to twist someone's words to fit their own purpose.   :unsure:

And I thought Christians were the only ones who wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

Either you don't "waste your time fantasizing about it," or you do. Either you've "got a multitude of other things to dream about" or you don't.

QuoteJust because I don't agree with you doesn't make my POV any less valid.

Which point of view? You've given two of them. There's yours, based explicitly on certainty, and Asimov's, based explicitly on uncertainty.

Quote from: "Loffler"Which point of view? You've given two of them. There's yours, based explicitly on certainty, and Asimov's, based explicitly on uncertainty.

How about an uncertain certainty?  That's where I stand.  

I think there's a misconception among many people, especially believers, that agnostics are uncertain and atheists are certain. This is a misconception. Most atheists, including Richard Dawkins, describe God not as impossible or definitively nonexistent but rather "extremely unlikely." This misconception has several consequences, two of which are 1) atheists who merely call themselves agnostic even though they don't believe in God, and 2) atheists who feel the need to profess more conviction or certainty than necessary in order to justify their label.

Atheists are free to wonder about the origin of the universe. They alone take these flights of fancy as lightly as people should take them, as they alone understand just how formal and rigorous the real exploration of the universe is (and hence, how playful religious whims are by comparison).

I'm the kind of skeptic who thinks a true skeptic always wonders about the guilt of the acquitted and the innocence of the convicted. But maybe I've got my skeptometer set too sensitive... aaaand now I'm doubting my own skepticism. See? There it goes again.

Quote from: "Loffler"I think there's a misconception among many people, especially believers, that agnostics are uncertain and atheists are certain. This is a misconception. Most atheists, including Richard Dawkins, describe God not as impossible or definitively nonexistent but rather "extremely unlikely." This misconception has several consequences, two of which are 1) atheists who merely call themselves agnostic even though they don't believe in God, and 2) atheists who feel the need to profess more conviction or certainty than necessary in order to justify their label.

Atheists are free to wonder about the origin of the universe. They alone take these flights of fancy as lightly as people should take them, as they alone understand just how formal and rigorous the real exploration of the universe is (and hence, how playful religious whims are by comparison).

I'm the kind of skeptic who thinks a true skeptic always wonders about the guilt of the acquitted and the innocence of the convicted. But maybe I've got my skeptometer set too sensitive... aaaand now I'm doubting my own skepticism. See? There it goes again.

Yes alot of people do see it that if an atheist questions then he or she truly isn't an atheist.But that's usually said by christians who seem to think everyone in the world believes in god whether or not they admit it.And you are so right a skeptic does wonder about these things.But wondering and knowing are different.I don't believe in God..be it a Christian god...Allah,Yahweh and I don't believe that anything is up there.But that doesn't stop me from wondering if there isn't such thing as mother nature.Or nature itself being a type of "god".God really isn't the right word for it.But we are ruled by the planet we live on like it or not.And isn't that a type of god...this one we atleast know is there.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Yes alot of people do see it that if an atheist questions then he or she truly isn't an atheist.But that's usually said by christians who seem to think everyone in the world believes in god whether or not they admit it.

They might be right that everyone has an instinctive need to believe in a creator. Science has already suggested this, and if it's conclusively demonstrated then the new definition of an atheist will become "One who doesn't not give rational credence to humanity's instinctual god impulse."

QuoteAnd you are so right a skeptic does wonder about these things. But wondering and knowing are different.I don't believe in God..be it a Christian god...Allah,Yahweh and I don't believe that anything is up there.But that doesn't stop me from wondering if there isn't such thing as mother nature.

It doesn't have to stop you from wondering if there's a God. It's possible to ponder things you lack belief in. To put it another way: "There is no evidence of God... but could there be someday?"

QuoteOr nature itself being a type of "god".God really isn't the right word for it.But we are ruled by the planet we live on like it or not.And isn't that a type of god...this one we atleast know is there.

Here's the difference: it's theism if you think nature is sentient/intelligent, but it's atheism if you think nature lacks sentience/intelligence.

And honestly, if someone believes nature (the whole universe that is) happens to have a living intelligence, but also that it doesn't care about us, and also that this intelligence is subordinate to its own laws (the same way you are subordinate to the laws of your body's biology), that really taxes most people's definition of an omnipotent and loving Creator.

I entertain the idea that the Christian god (not that we're talking a singular being here, as there are many incarnations of the myth) exists about as frequently as I ponder the existence of the Greek god Pan, unicorns, and the Sumerian god Enki; in short, if often (I read a lot of fantasy/sci-fi based on ancient mythoi   ), not seriously.  Sure, it's fun to play the what-if games, but I'm not about to adopt a skewed and damaging view of morality and reality because I'm threatened with an eternal barbeque by a group of sun god worshippers (especially when I see little to no evidence for the veracity of the belief system and much that opposes it).

How often do you consider Hinduism to be true?  Do you ever fear the wrath of Zeus?  Does Ragnarok get you down?

Apply your feelings regarding those supernatural subjects to the Christian versions, and you'll probably get a pretty good feel for where I stand.  Rather than being a question of great import, the whole issue seems a mere fairytale, a whim to be mused upon and lightly tossed aside.

Quote from: "Loffler"

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Yes alot of people do see it that if an atheist questions then he or she truly isn't an atheist.But that's usually said by christians who seem to think everyone in the world believes in god whether or not they admit it.

They might be right that everyone has an instinctive need to believe in a creator. Science has already suggested this, and if it's conclusively demonstrated then the new definition of an atheist will become "One who doesn't not give rational credence to humanity's instinctual god impulse."

QuotePerhaps it's not a need to believe in a creator so much as it is a need to find a cohesive explanation for why things are as they appear and ways to cope with situations out of one's control.  Gods are merely stopping points in the process of exploring the universe; once you say "god(s) did it" and establish its/their authority, there's no need to look further.  That works for a lot of people.

For others, it doesn't.  The pat answers, when reviewed more closely, give rise to new questions; skeptics and scientists are born.  Rather than having a "god-shaped hole" in our hearts (i.e. our brains), I think we all just have a need to make sense of our place in the universe.  Some of us are more easily satisfied than others.

Quote from: "jrosebud"Perhaps it's not a need to believe in a creator so much as it is a need to find a cohesive explanation for why things are as they appear and ways to cope with situations out of one's control.  Gods are merely stopping points in the process of exploring the universe; once you say "god(s) did it" and establish its/their authority, there's no need to look further.  That works for a lot of people.

For others, it doesn't.  The pat answers, when reviewed more closely, give rise to new questions; skeptics and scientists are born.  Rather than having a "god-shaped hole" in our hearts (i.e. our brains), I think we all just have a need to make sense of our place in the universe.  Some of us are more easily satisfied than others.

I've seen it said that everyone uses he scientific method, but most stop at "hypothesis."

1) I doubt my disbelief in a divine force
b - infrequently (once a month to once a year)

2) I doubt my disbelief in the historicity of the Bible
a - never (a resounding never at least for the miraculous events like resurrection, walking across water, etc)

3) I doubt my disbelief in an afterlife
a - never

4) I believe that morality is absolute
c - Sometimes I think it is, sometimes I think it isn't

And, a quick followup question to 4): If I believe morality to be absolute, I believe this on the basis of: the secular, scientific pursuit for human psychological, physical, and otherwise holistic well-being.