Happy Atheist Forum

QuoteTURLOCK (CBS13/AP) ― Police fatally shot a Turlock man as he kicked, punched and stomped a young toddler to death in front of horrified motorists who tried to stop the attack on a dark country road, authorities said.

Investigators identified the man as 27-year-old Sergio Casian Aguiar, and say he was the father of the boy. The Stanislaus County coroner said the boy appeared to be between one and two-year-old based on his size, according to Stanislaus County Sheriff's deputy Royjindar Singh.

"It's been a long night of wondering why, not only for the officers and the passers-by who stopped and tried to help out, but for anyone. Why would somebody do this?" Singh said.

The Stanislaus County Sheriff's Department began receiving calls late Saturday night from motorists witnessing a man beating a young baby. The suspect had a child's car seat in the back of his four-door pickup truck, which caught the attention of an elderly couple at 10:13 p.m. Saturday because it was stopped in the two-lane road facing the wrong direction, Singh said.

"What we got from witnesses is he was punching, slapping, kicking, stomping, shaking," Singh said. "They tried to intervene and get involved, but their efforts really didn't have an effect. The suspect was engaged in what he was doing. He just pushed them off and went back to it."

A volunteer fire chief who tried to stop the man from beating a child to death described a horrific scene. Dan Robinson jumped out of his vehicle and tried to stop the suspect from kicking and stomping a toddler to death. Robinson, who is the chief of the Crows Landing Volunteer Fire Department, says the man was saying "demons" were in the boy.

A Sheriff's Department helicopter arrived on scene at Bradbury Road near the Blaker Road intersection before any units on the ground. The helicopter crew saw the man kicking a baby in the head, according to authorities. The crew made an emergency landing in a nearby cow pasture, and a Modesto police officer left the aircraft and moved toward the man. The officer, Jerry Ramar, fatally shot Aguiar after he failed to heed the officer's warning to stop beating the child, authorities said. Aguiar flashed his middle finger at Ramar before Ramar shot him in the forehead, police said.

"I have never seen anything like that before and I hope I never have to again," Ramar said.

The infant was rushed to a Turlock medical center, but was pronounced dead. Authorities say the injuries to the baby were so severe they will need to make an identification through a blood or DNA test.

Authorities have not released the name of the boy's mother.

Aguilar had no previous criminal history, police said. Results of toxicology tests on Aguilar are expected in four weeks.

Ramar has been placed on paid administrative leave, a routine response for officer-involved shootings.

http://cbs13.com/local/infant.death.beating.2.748818.html

SHIT :eek:

that is a perfect example of one of the many reasons religion is WRONG and leads to the opposite of what it is claimed to do.


My condolences to the family of the toddler

Quote from: "leftyguitarjoe"SHIT :eek:

that is a perfect example of one of the many reasons religion is WRONG and leads to the opposite of what it is claimed to do.


My condolences to the family of the toddler

There are claims that the man was on some kind of drug when he did this.But nothing was found as of yet.This is religion at it's worst.

Every time i hear something like this, it makes me want to find a religious person and smash their face into this article whilst shouting "LOOK! LOOK WHAT THE SHIT YOU BELIEVE IN LEADS SOME PEOPLE TO DO, YOU BARBARIC BACKWARD-THINKING NEANDERTHALS!!!"

That is obviously my emotional response at reading such an horrendous story. I'm glad that policeman didn't mess about and just shot the guy in the head. That is the only way to deal with someone 'so far gone'...

Other than the kid, I feel bad for the poor people who had to witness something so horrific. I'm not sure what witnessing something like that would do to my head. I'd more than likely need intensive counseling.

Well, if the guy was not exactly right in his head, absence of demons to believe in would probably not have prevented this. If not demons, you still have many potential miscreants to invade a human host, like aliens for instance.

Still... A kid is dead, as is the guy who did it. And that is pretty damned pointless, if you ask me. I wonder what Christian fundies have to say about this... That their god and their devil each got a new corpse to bolster their ranks, no doubt.

This might sound strange, but when I first read this on Google News, I can't say I was surprised. Could be that I'm desensitized to violence or maybe just that it's not so shocking. Tragic, yes, but not shocking.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"This is religion at it's worst.

Honestly, I disagree. This is psychosis at its worst. If the guy did it because he thought his son was full of demons, fine. If he did it because his religion told him to, that's a different story. Replace "demon" with "faerie" and it no longer has a religious tone, merely a psychotic one. Doesn't make it easier to swallow for most of us, but it's hardly the worst thing to come out of religion.

Quote from: "Asmodean"I wonder what Christian fundies have to say about this... That their god and their devil each got a new corpse to bolster their ranks, no doubt.

Here's the funny thing: if those Christian fundies truly believe in demons and whatnot, they're going to applaud the man and call him a martyr for doing God's work in the face of a godless public and police force. Never underestimate the power of self-deception amongst these people. It will most likely be Thank God for a good father willing to do what he must do to save his son, and Thank God for allowing a troubled child to be delivered to the arms of Jesus.

Bat. Shit. Crazy.

QuoteAguiar flashed his middle finger at Ramar before Ramar shot him in the forehead, police said.

Sweet.  Instant death penalty.

Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"Bat. Shit. Crazy.

Amen.

Oh my god. This is horrible. I think I'm still in shock. I just don't see how someone could do that, religion or no. I think drugs or something had more to do with this than religion though... at least, I hope so, not that that would make it better, just, I don't know... fuck.

Quote from: "Asmodean"Well, if the guy was not exactly right in his head, absence of demons to believe in would probably not have prevented this. If not demons, you still have many potential miscreants to invade a human host, like aliens for instance.

Still... A kid is dead, as is the guy who did it. And that is pretty damned pointless, if you ask me. I wonder what Christian fundies have to say about this... That their god and their devil each got a new corpse to bolster their ranks, no doubt.

Yes I'm sure the blame was taken away from their beliefs and put on the Devil.Honestly people can't seem to own up for their own actions and put it off on something else.As for being there and seeing it I wouldn't have been able to handle it.I know that some tried to stop him but you know that alot probley just stood there watching.It's society, people are so flipping worried about getting sued or just getting involved,that they stand by and do nothing.I'm sure the father had some sort of mental illness (Schizophrenia would be my guess).My father has the condition and I know how it messes with a person.It seems like one of his family members would have noticed something was wrong.There are just to many things to name.I think that those people who just stood by should also be held liable for not taking action.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"

Quote from: "Asmodean"Well, if the guy was not exactly right in his head, absence of demons to believe in would probably not have prevented this. If not demons, you still have many potential miscreants to invade a human host, like aliens for instance.

Still... A kid is dead, as is the guy who did it. And that is pretty damned pointless, if you ask me. I wonder what Christian fundies have to say about this... That their god and their devil each got a new corpse to bolster their ranks, no doubt.

Yes I'm sure the blame was taken away from their beliefs and put on the Devil.Honestly people can't seem to own up for their own actions and put it off on something else.As for being there and seeing it I wouldn't have been able to handle it.I know that some tried to stop him but you know that alot probley just stood there watching.It's society, people are so flipping worried about getting sued or just getting involved,that they stand by and do nothing.I'm sure the father had some sort of mental illness (Schizophrenia would be my guess).My father has the condition and I know how it messes with a person.It seems like one of his family members would have noticed something was wrong.There are just to many things to name.I think that those people who just stood by should also be held liable for not taking action.

Hmm, i don't know. If there were people standing by just watching, i'm sure it would have been through shock and not simple complacency. I'd be mortified if it turned out that people actually stood by and were entertained by it. I know certain parts of society are fucked, but i just can't entertain the notion that people would let that happen because of anything other than shock or fear.

There was a psychological study once conducted researching how humans react en-masse when something really out of the ordinary happens. The Bradford fire (UK) in 1985 where 52 football fans were killed was used as a case study. It showed a very small percentage of people (something like 4%) took action, kept their wits and led others to safety. The majority basically did what they were told by these few. Some just panicked and ran aimlessly and the rest just froze, seemingly unable to do a thing. Some people just sat there burning in the stands. It was very horrible.
 
The point here is that most people do not do the expected in such overwhelmingly unexpected and terrifying situations. I'd categorise somebody murdering a baby in plain view of the public as something entirely out of the ordinary and to be quite honest, if i were to witness such a thing, i really cannot guarantee what i'd do. I'd like to think i'd help in any way possible, but the harsh realities are that i may actually be part of that percentage of people who just freeze, unable to do a thing.

One thing is for sure, though... If i did see something like that, i'd be psychologically scarred for the rest of my life.

Quote from: "karadan"Hmm, i don't know. If there were people standing by just watching, i'm sure it would have been through shock and not simple complacency. I'd be mortified if it turned out that people actually stood by and were entertained by it. I know certain parts of society are fucked, but i just can't entertain the notion that people would let that happen because of anything other than shock or fear.

You seem to believe in goodness of humankind... Though I agree that in this case the by-standers were probably in shock or did not interfere out of concern for their own safety, but there are people who would gladly watch someone, even a small child, being killed while munching popcorn and drinking beer.

Quote from: "karadan"There was a psychological study once conducted researching how humans react en-masse when something really out of the ordinary happens. The Bradford fire (UK) in 1985 where 52 football fans were killed was used as a case study. It showed a very small percentage of people (something like 4%) took action, kept their wits and led others to safety. The majority basically did what they were told by these few. Some just panicked and ran aimlessly and the rest just froze, seemingly unable to do a thing. Some people just sat there burning in the stands. It was very horrible.

Collective mentality. The flock looking for itts leader to act. It's the same with sheep - they all run where the lead sheep runs. However, being more or less used to being on their own, when this particular instinct kicks in, people don't know how to handle it.
 

Quote from: "karadan"The point here is that most people do not do the expected in such overwhelmingly unexpected and terrifying situations. I'd categorise somebody murdering a baby in plain view of the public as something entirely out of the ordinary and to be quite honest, if i were to witness such a thing, i really cannot guarantee what i'd do. I'd like to think i'd help in any way possible, but the harsh realities are that i may actually be part of that percentage of people who just freeze, unable to do a thing.

If I were a by-stander, I would probably not interfere without the odds being heavily in my favour. (Yes, yes, I know, I'd make a terrible soldier :unsure:

Demons, honor, glory, religion and resources....we kill one another for no real reason.

Well I think you would be surprised at how little people do to help each other.My hubsand had seen a women who had fallen into a river in Indianapolis,there were alot of people around and they all just watched.He was the only one who jumped in to get her out.Funny thing is it was shown on the news that day and all of those people who stood there lied their tails off.A couple of them were saying that they tried to help.Just think about when you're driving down the street and see someone who's car has broken down.How many people do you see stop and help.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Well I think you would be surprised at how little people do to help each other.My hubsand had seen a women who had fallen into a river in Indianapolis,there were alot of people around and they all just watched.He was the only one who jumped in to get her out.Funny thing is it was shown on the news that day and all of those people who stood there lied their tails off.A couple of them were saying that they tried to help.Just think about when you're driving down the street and see someone who's car has broken down.How many people do you see stop and help.

That reminds me... one time, my sister was in the car with her friend from church and some of her friend's family members. They passed by a lady whose car was broken down. My sister commented on how they should help the lady and the mother (who was driving) replied, "Oh it's okay, I asked God to send her help when we passed."

Quote from: "susangail"

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Well I think you would be surprised at how little people do to help each other.My hubsand had seen a women who had fallen into a river in Indianapolis,there were alot of people around and they all just watched.He was the only one who jumped in to get her out.Funny thing is it was shown on the news that day and all of those people who stood there lied their tails off.A couple of them were saying that they tried to help.Just think about when you're driving down the street and see someone who's car has broken down.How many people do you see stop and help.

That reminds me... one time, my sister was in the car with her friend from church and some of her friend's family members. They passed by a lady whose car was broken down. My sister commented on how they should help the lady and the mother (who was driving) replied, "Oh it's okay, I asked God to send her help when we passed."

And I bet God sent down a mechanic.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"

Quote from: "susangail"

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Well I think you would be surprised at how little people do to help each other.My hubsand had seen a women who had fallen into a river in Indianapolis,there were alot of people around and they all just watched.He was the only one who jumped in to get her out.Funny thing is it was shown on the news that day and all of those people who stood there lied their tails off.A couple of them were saying that they tried to help.Just think about when you're driving down the street and see someone who's car has broken down.How many people do you see stop and help.

That reminds me... one time, my sister was in the car with her friend from church and some of her friend's family members. They passed by a lady whose car was broken down. My sister commented on how they should help the lady and the mother (who was driving) replied, "Oh it's okay, I asked God to send her help when we passed."

And I bet God sent down a mechanic.

Oh no, He most certainly miraculously "fixed" the car and the lady suddenly saw the light and became a Christian on the side of the rode. Cars slowed and crashed into each other at the site of this woman kneeling with her hands to the heavens screaming at the top of her lungs "God, God, GOD!!! I believe!!!!"
The Lord works in mysterious ways.......

This is an awful situation to read about. Religions always find their way to dehumanize the "other".

All in all however I think humans are cooperative (due to reason and evolution) and I cannot understand why people would not help this poor baby. One of the reasons I am Atheist is because I do not believe in "turning the other cheek" and this guy deserves to be ripped apart if this would save the baby.

But to be fair and not paint too evil a portrait of humanity (like religion does), I think there is a big difference between not helping someone with a broken down car (and who probably has help on the way already, due to cell phones amongst other things) and saving a baby's life from some monster stomping on them.

I have gotten into fist fights when violence is involved but I do not always help people with broken down cars since broken down cars are different  scenarios from life or death situations and I never thought someone needed to help me when I have been in a similar situation. I of course weigh this on reason and not some duty delegating god.

Essentially what I am getting at is that  I don't think someone needs to intervene to help you unless you are completely incapable of helping yourself (elderly, child like or super poor and/or their is force being used against you).

Yeah but it comes back to people just don't help people anymore.You hear about things like this all the time.There was a news story about a young girl who was stoned infront of a crowd.No one helped.Infact someone stood there and videotaoped it.Yes someones car being broke down is totally different.But it shows that most people just drive by.People feel more moved and more likely to do something if they see a starving child from another country on TV.But walk past a homeless man asking for change.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Yeah but it comes back to people just don't help people anymore.You hear about things like this all the time.There was a news story about a young girl who was stoned infront of a crowd.No one helped.Infact someone stood there and videotaoped it.Yes someones car being broke down is totally different.But it shows that most people just drive by.People feel more moved and more likely to do something if they see a starving child from another country on TV.But walk past a homeless man asking for change.

I agree. I was talking with my sister's boyfriend about this actually. He said that he gets so frustrated with people who run off to save people in Africa when there are still people here that need help.

Quote from: "susangail"

Quote from: "afreethinker30"Yeah but it comes back to people just don't help people anymore.You hear about things like this all the time.There was a news story about a young girl who was stoned infront of a crowd.No one helped.Infact someone stood there and videotaoped it.Yes someones car being broke down is totally different.But it shows that most people just drive by.People feel more moved and more likely to do something if they see a starving child from another country on TV.But walk past a homeless man asking for change.

I agree. I was talking with my sister's boyfriend about this actually. He said that he gets so frustrated with people who run off to save people in Africa when there are still people here that need help.

I was really shocked to learn that here in Indiana our homeless population is alot more then I thought.Friend of mine worked for a shelter for awhile helping people find jobs and homes.She worked with alot of the teen population.She said alot of the teens she worked with where gay and disowned because of it.At the time we had a different governor who wasn't doing alot.Infact he cut their program back.The governor we have now is all about helping people.I really really hope he gets re-elected.

QuotePATIENT IGNORED TO DEATH
KINGS COUNTY HOSPITAL OUTRAGE
They callously ignored her.

Esmin Green is seen in these infuriating images collapsing on the psychiatric emergency-room floor at Kings County Hospital - stared at by one worker, ignored by a security guard, and finally nudged by a health-care staffer on June 19.

She lay there for an hour before doctors and nurses snapped to attention and tried to revive the 49-year-old Jamaica native.

It was too late.

The shocking video was released by lawyers suing KCH in federal court on an unrelated matter.

"I heard about it and it's horrible how she died like that," said Green's landlady, Beatrice Wallace, of East 94th Street in Brooklyn.



She'd lived there until just days before she died.

The needless death resulted in the immediate firings of the director of psychiatry, the doctor on duty and the director of security, said a spokeswoman for the city's Health and Hospitals Corp., which runs the municipal hospital.

Two nurses and a security guard were suspended pending hearings.

"We are all shocked and distressed by this situation," HHC President Alan D. Aviles said in a statement last night. "It is clear that some of our employees failed to act based on our compassionate standards of care."

He added that "as a result of this tragic incident, we will put into place additional and significant reforms" to protect psych patients.

A federal court order will be signed today, directing the hospital to assemble a search team to fill the spots of the fired staff, and establishing guidelines to reduce the waiting time at the emergency room.

HHC said Green was brought to the psychiatric e.r. by EMS medics on the morning of June 18, suffering from agitation and psychosis.

The patient refused medical review and was admitted against her will.

She was left in the e.r., supposedly under supervision, waiting for a bed in the inpatient unit to become available.

Nearly 24 hours later, on the morning on June 19, she was found unresponsive on the floor.

Shockingly, more than a year earlier, the New York Civil Liberties Union and others sued KCH over unsatisfactory conditions there.

The lawsuit, filed at Brooklyn federal court, described conditions in the psychiatric unit as "squalor," more like a squatter camp than a hospital.

"The pattern of neglect and abuse at Kings County Hospital Center is an affront to human dignity," NYCLU Executive Director Donna Lieberman said at the time.

"The New Yorkers most in need of our care and support are being denied their basic rights by the very institutions entrusted to protect these individuals."

I will post the link.But it does have the surveillance video.http://www.nypost.com/seven/07012008/news/regionalnews/patient_ignored_to_death_117964.htm

Quote from: "afreethinker30"I was really shocked to learn that here in Indiana our homeless population is alot more then I thought.Friend of mine worked for a shelter for awhile helping people find jobs and homes.She worked with alot of the teen population.She said alot of the teens she worked with where gay and disowned because of it.At the time we had a different governor who wasn't doing alot.Infact he cut their program back.The governor we have now is all about helping people.I really really hope he gets re-elected.

Wow. I still can't believe teens get disowned just because they're gay. It's stupid. I'm glad you have a decent governor now.

Quote from: "afreethinker30"I will post the link.But it does have the surveillance video.http://www.nypost.com/seven/07012008/news/regionalnews/patient_ignored_to_death_117964.htm

I saw this on my local news station last night. It's horrible.