Title:
Post by: silviakjell on August 03, 2006, 07:32:16 AM
Post by: silviakjell on August 03, 2006, 07:32:16 AM
Quote>>
This is an insult...my, my, my...maybe I should rethink joining this forum if folks here are going to be this sensitive and characterize this as an insult. I'll remeber to walk on eggshells in the future. <<
Yes, this is an insult. Not that insulting, but nevertheless, still an insult.
This is an insult...my, my, my...maybe I should rethink joining this forum if folks here are going to be this sensitive and characterize this as an insult. I'll remeber to walk on eggshells in the future. <<
Yes, this is an insult. Not that insulting, but nevertheless, still an insult.
Title:
Post by: silviakjell on August 03, 2006, 07:45:43 AM
Post by: silviakjell on August 03, 2006, 07:45:43 AM
Oh, and BTW, onlyme, i am not happy with my life and i never will be happy with my life. You can never be truly happy. If you are happy, it means that you have acheived all the goals in your life. You can never acheive all the goals in your life. and even if you delude yourself into thinking you have, then what is life without goals? One of your goals should always be to make more goals.
Now I ask you. Are you happy with your life? Answer truly.
Now I ask you. Are you happy with your life? Answer truly.
Title:
Post by: Asmodean Prime on August 03, 2006, 09:13:43 AM
Post by: Asmodean Prime on August 03, 2006, 09:13:43 AM
sivliakjell: of course I'm not happy with my life. How can anybody be truly happy all the time with all the problems associated with this life? I have as many difficulties and problems as the next person, maybe more than some, less than others. But in alll of my problems, I find that I can turn to God and find support. This is not just an emotional thing, I mean that God actually does intervene in a tangible way sometimes, which I have assurance of as well, through His Spirit. I know this happens, and that it is real. Why else, do you think, that I would be a Christian, if it just meant suffering abuse, name calling, exclusion, etc, just to hold on to an empty belief?
I believe for a reason. And by belief, I don't just mean blind faith, but confirmation. I believe because I've seen.
And after some of the things I've experienced, it would not only be foolish of me, but impossible, not to believe. I will always believe. I have no choice. And I wouldn't want to go back to not believing if I could.
I've seen. Therefore I believe.
I believe for a reason. And by belief, I don't just mean blind faith, but confirmation. I believe because I've seen.
And after some of the things I've experienced, it would not only be foolish of me, but impossible, not to believe. I will always believe. I have no choice. And I wouldn't want to go back to not believing if I could.
I've seen. Therefore I believe.
Title: Know the opposition
Post by: Asmodean Prime on October 17, 2006, 01:36:57 PM
Post by: Asmodean Prime on October 17, 2006, 01:36:57 PM
[color=#] [/color][size=9] [/size]
Many (most) creationists haven't even read one page of a book in support of evolution, because they often believe it may sway their thinking or something similar. However, we could learn a thing or two by reading the Bible, so that we can see where the creationists are coming from...and how to debunk what they say. Read up on Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort etc, see what they say, and come up with rebuttals. Read their criticisms of atheism and evolution and find out how to conteract these accusations. It works like this:
1) Creationist looks up Ray Comfort's challenges to evolution (I believe there are 44) and decides to use these on an "unsuspecting" atheist.
2) The "unsuspecting" atheist, however, has already read these lies and knows how to counteract every one of them.
3) When the two meet at high noon, the creationist challenges the atheist to a duel / debate, the atheist fires the salvos right back at the creationist. Atheist 1, Creationist 0. But when you emerge the victor, don't be unkind; drag his battered body back to the saloon and let him recover.
"If you know your enemy as yourself, you need not fear the result of one hundred battles" - Sun Tzu
Many (most) creationists haven't even read one page of a book in support of evolution, because they often believe it may sway their thinking or something similar. However, we could learn a thing or two by reading the Bible, so that we can see where the creationists are coming from...and how to debunk what they say. Read up on Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort etc, see what they say, and come up with rebuttals. Read their criticisms of atheism and evolution and find out how to conteract these accusations. It works like this:
1) Creationist looks up Ray Comfort's challenges to evolution (I believe there are 44) and decides to use these on an "unsuspecting" atheist.
2) The "unsuspecting" atheist, however, has already read these lies and knows how to counteract every one of them.
3) When the two meet at high noon, the creationist challenges the atheist to a duel / debate, the atheist fires the salvos right back at the creationist. Atheist 1, Creationist 0. But when you emerge the victor, don't be unkind; drag his battered body back to the saloon and let him recover.
"If you know your enemy as yourself, you need not fear the result of one hundred battles" - Sun Tzu
Title: Re: Know the opposition
Post by: McQ on October 17, 2006, 11:44:03 PM
Post by: McQ on October 17, 2006, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: "StillWatersRunDeep"[color=#] [/color]
Many (most) creationists haven't even read one page of a book in support of evolution, because they often believe it may sway their thinking or something similar. However, we could learn a thing or two by reading the Bible, so that we can see where the creationists are coming from...and how to debunk what they say. Read up on Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort etc, see what they say, and come up with rebuttals. Read their criticisms of atheism and evolution and find out how to conteract these accusations. It works like this]
Yep, it is always prudent to know as much as possible about your opponents. Some here were Christians previously. Some have serious education in Christian theology too.
Title:
Post by: toink33 on October 23, 2006, 06:42:27 AM
Post by: toink33 on October 23, 2006, 06:42:27 AM
Common sense, some science books/mags, and the dicovery channel and national geo channel is all i have against their challenges. I have a bible buy i dont read it. I can't get pass the tree of knowledge part. ( either god intended adam and eve to eat the fruit so he can have fun punishing them or he is so stupid to have placed that tree within their reach without some security, i don't get. )
Title:
Post by: bmxrider724 on October 24, 2006, 03:09:34 AM
Post by: bmxrider724 on October 24, 2006, 03:09:34 AM
well god gave them free choice. i mean if they chose to eat it its their fault. i figure that gods whole purpose isnt to make us do the right thing, or less he woudnt have made free will, the main thing is choice. the choice to do a certain thing. wihtout it nothing would be real. then you go on to why not make a world without choices, which people on here have already talked about.
Title:
Post by: Whitney on October 24, 2006, 04:10:02 AM
Post by: Whitney on October 24, 2006, 04:10:02 AM
It's not really a free choice when you are incapable of fully understanding the consequences of your actions. Also, it's one thing to allow choice (being able to choose freely is a good thing) yet another to punish everyone for the fault of two ignorant beings.
Title:
Post by: pony1976 on October 25, 2006, 12:50:34 AM
Post by: pony1976 on October 25, 2006, 12:50:34 AM
I think that one tends to base his or her life philosophies on the assumptions that everyone feels like they do, and that mode of thought, I think, is essentially incorrect.
Everyone does not have a god shaped hole in their life, and when people do feel this way, it may be that they have been inculcated with that label for the feeling, that it is merely a common human feeling that has been mislabeled as a "god hole" to console the sheepish.
I am honest in my assertion that I make my own meaning in life, and that I have absolutely no need for imaginary friends, my real ones are quite sufficient.
your "you can be honest if you want" comment is the nice loophole you will use to convince yourself that I am spouting nonsense. Enjoy your delusion.
Everyone does not have a god shaped hole in their life, and when people do feel this way, it may be that they have been inculcated with that label for the feeling, that it is merely a common human feeling that has been mislabeled as a "god hole" to console the sheepish.
I am honest in my assertion that I make my own meaning in life, and that I have absolutely no need for imaginary friends, my real ones are quite sufficient.
your "you can be honest if you want" comment is the nice loophole you will use to convince yourself that I am spouting nonsense. Enjoy your delusion.
Title:
Post by: bmxrider724 on October 26, 2006, 06:22:46 PM
Post by: bmxrider724 on October 26, 2006, 06:22:46 PM
i agree with pony, as a christian i know that the statement "everyone has a god shaped hole" is not gonna help anyone. and laetus i dont get what you mean, and maybe its my 15 yr old knowledge that is leading me to belive this, but i find if you choose to do it, its free choice. and it makes sense that god punished them because he said, if you do this i will punish you. as a baby if it chooses to do something, its true, it does not know the consequences of its actions, but it still does it and it was not forced to. what makes that not free choice? again i am only 15 so bear with my uneducated words, my ideas though, there great 
Title:
Post by: McQ on October 28, 2006, 04:05:25 AM
Post by: McQ on October 28, 2006, 04:05:25 AM
Quote from: "bmxrider724"i agree with pony, as a christian i know that the statement "everyone has a god shaped hole" is not gonna help anyone. and laetus i dont get what you mean, and maybe its my 15 yr old knowledge that is leading me to belive this, but i find if you choose to do it, its free choice. and it makes sense that god punished them because he said, if you do this i will punish you. as a baby if it chooses to do something, its true, it does not know the consequences of its actions, but it still does it and it was not forced to. what makes that not free choice? again i am only 15 so bear with my uneducated words, my ideas though, there great
bmx, 15 years old or not, would you please do everyone a favor and use grammar, punctuation and spelling that make more sense? We all get in a hurry when we type and we all make mistakes. That's ok. But everything you type is painful to wade through just to try and understand your points.
Thank you.
Title:
Post by: toink33 on October 28, 2006, 07:24:10 AM
Post by: toink33 on October 28, 2006, 07:24:10 AM
Is it free choice if you tell someone to follow you or if he don't he will burn in hell forever? Or is this a blackmail?
Title:
Post by: Squid on October 30, 2006, 04:42:46 AM
Post by: Squid on October 30, 2006, 04:42:46 AM
Quote from: "bmxrider724""everyone has a god shaped hole"
...[/butthead]uh huh huh huh...you said "hole" uh huh huh huh...[/butthead]
Title:
Post by: Tom62 on October 30, 2006, 07:47:25 AM
Post by: Tom62 on October 30, 2006, 07:47:25 AM
Quote from: "Squid"[/butthead]uh huh huh huh...you said "hole" uh huh huh huh...[/butthead]
Thanks for reminding me to buy the Beavis and Butthead DVD's! Uh, huh, huh huh ... let's blowup something uh huh..
Title:
Post by: bmxrider724 on October 30, 2006, 11:41:56 PM
Post by: bmxrider724 on October 30, 2006, 11:41:56 PM
Quote from: "toink33"Is it free choice if you tell someone to follow you or if he don't he will burn in hell forever? Or is this a blackmail?
if i say dont kill someone because if you do then the police will be after you and you do kill them, was it free choice then? just because an action warrents a bad consequence doesnt make it blackmail. of course you have free will to kill someone.
Title:
Post by: Whitney on October 30, 2006, 11:47:33 PM
Post by: Whitney on October 30, 2006, 11:47:33 PM
Quote from: "bmxrider724"but i find if you choose to do it, its free choice. and it makes sense that god punished them because he said, if you do this i will punish you.
For example, you place a two yr old in a room with a gun and tell him not to touch it. Although this child knows he has been told not to touch the gun he does not understand why (that the gun is dangerous and can kill him). Even if you happened to tell this kid that the gun can kill him most humans at that age don't really have a firm grasp on what it means to die. I can see how someone could view the kid's choice to play with the gun anyway as being free choice (although I'd consider it a choice based more on ignorance than freedom), but not that the child deserved to be punished as the result of his choice...the above example would probably result in charges of child neglect in most civilized countries.
So, apply this to Adam and Eve...did either of them really understand the consequences of eating the apple? When thinking of how to answer that question, ask yourself if they had understood would they have eaten in the first place...also, how is it possible to make a decision between good and evil without having the knowledge of good an evil (which they gained from the tree)?
Title:
Post by: bmxrider724 on October 31, 2006, 09:46:36 PM
Post by: bmxrider724 on October 31, 2006, 09:46:36 PM
i dont think that understanding the whole picture matters. what if a 20 yr old kills someone without fully understanding that they would spend their life in jail, they are still acountable.
Title:
Post by: Whitney on October 31, 2006, 11:38:24 PM
Post by: Whitney on October 31, 2006, 11:38:24 PM
Quote from: "bmxrider724"i dont think that understanding the whole picture matters. what if a 20 yr old kills someone without fully understanding that they would spend their life in jail, they are still acountable.
If the 20 year old was competent would he be capable of honestly not fully understanding the consequences of his actions? Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the legal system is set up so that those who are grossly incompetent don't get life sentences...they get put in mental institutions or other types of care facilities. Basically, as a society we understand that not everyone shares the same level of maturity or mental competence so we are set up so that those who are not able to understand what they have done are treated differently than those who made a thought out choice.
When looking at it as a society, although we may feel that those who don't share a full understanding may not be deserving of punishment, we have to set them apart from society for the safety of all citizens. When looking at it from the perspective of God deciding to punish Adam and Eve, who clearly didn't know the difference between good and evil before eating from the tree, it seems unjust to punish them as if they could know what they were doing (they certainly didn't understand the consequences...if they had why didn't they eat from the tree of life to avoid the punishment of death from eating from the tree of knowledge?)...even more unjust to punish all of humanity due to the actions of two people. That's like if your great great etc grandfather killed a man and all of his descendents including himself have to sit in jail for their whole life.
Title:
Post by: Big Mac on November 01, 2006, 05:46:17 AM
Post by: Big Mac on November 01, 2006, 05:46:17 AM
They do get commited and it is really difficult to get consider mentally incompetent. They have a rigorous gauntlet of doctors, tests, and basic observations to demill anyone sane enough to insist on it. Though there are scenarios like crimes of passion. Like walking in on a spouse and your sibling which can get leniency in court if you murder them out of pure rage that was obviously not premeditated. I agree with both cases, sometimes people get pushed into special circumstances that make them do things not normal of their character.
Also the bible contradicts itself by saying we are doomed by Adam and Eve yet it later states that the sins of the Father are not the sins of the Son. In that a child will not be held accountable for their parents' actions. Then God again contradicts himself saying that anyone who blasphemises against him shall suffer up to the "10th generation". God is a funny invention, so inconsistent.
Also the bible contradicts itself by saying we are doomed by Adam and Eve yet it later states that the sins of the Father are not the sins of the Son. In that a child will not be held accountable for their parents' actions. Then God again contradicts himself saying that anyone who blasphemises against him shall suffer up to the "10th generation". God is a funny invention, so inconsistent.
Title:
Post by: bmxrider724 on November 01, 2006, 06:18:55 PM
Post by: bmxrider724 on November 01, 2006, 06:18:55 PM
and are you taking those things out of context?, clearly you are. why dont you give us referances and the whole story behind those quotes.
Title:
Post by: Whitney on November 01, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Post by: Whitney on November 01, 2006, 09:19:30 PM
Which verses do you think Big Mac took out of context?
The father's sins not being the son's is definitely in context Ezekiel 18:20
Although I'm not sure if there is a verse in the bible that says the subsequent generations of blasphemers are punished, there is one that says the same of bastards (considering the context...deut 22 is about how to treat cases of adultery...i don't see how you can say it's out of context) Deut 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
The father's sins not being the son's is definitely in context Ezekiel 18:20
Although I'm not sure if there is a verse in the bible that says the subsequent generations of blasphemers are punished, there is one that says the same of bastards (considering the context...deut 22 is about how to treat cases of adultery...i don't see how you can say it's out of context) Deut 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.