In contrast to many atheists I have spoken with, it's a refreshing change to see "happy" atheists. Many atheists I had previously talked with are negative and surround themselves with negativity. Alas, perhaps I have found "happy atheists"
In any event, I came here to discuss with atheists not to debate the existence of God, but rather reveal that spirituality is not so bad without the extremism. I feel that many atheists I have spoken with in the past use the non-proof of God to justify a non-morality per say. Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have to have no morals and break the law.
Regardless and above all, I respect the freedom that is given to all people on this planet. In that I respect most atheists that have positive contributions to society. Perhaps a "happy atheist" at the very least may be able to respect the positive contributions of spirituality, such as unconditional love and understanding?
Feel free to PM me for deeper discussions!
Can we post on the forum, or are you only interested in PM?
Hi, and welcome. I'm new here, too.
Can you define spirituality? I've always had trouble accepting this term/concept. I'm really not sure what constitutes being spiritual.
Thanks!
Quote from: TheouLive on September 20, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
In contrast to many atheists I have spoken with, it's a refreshing change to see "happy" atheists. Many atheists I had previously talked with are negative and surround themselves with negativity. Alas, perhaps I have found "happy atheists"
In any event, I came here to discuss with atheists not to debate the existence of God, but rather reveal that spirituality is not so bad without the extremism. I feel that many atheists I have spoken with in the past use the non-proof of God to justify a non-morality per say. Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have to have no morals and break the law.
Regardless and above all, I respect the freedom that is given to all people on this planet. In that I respect most atheists that have positive contributions to society. Perhaps a "happy atheist" at the very least may be able to respect the positive contributions of spirituality, such as unconditional love and understanding?
Feel free to PM me for deeper discussions!
This is a discussion forum, not a place for your personal enjoyment. The discussion happens on the forum, not via PM. If you continue to promote a PM route or I find out you have been abusing the PM system here I will ban you. Got it?
In addition read the rules regarding your first 10 posts.
Howdy. I'm a happy atheist with a cloak of negativity that I often wrap myself in. It's warm and snug. ;D (the smiley signifies a joke)
A lot of the people here already have the opinion that religion not trying to take over laws, the government and public education is not so bad, so if that is your only purpose for joining these forums; the mission is already accomplished. Hopefully you're here for more than that though, welcome to the forums.
When I decided to post here more frequently, it wasn't because of what the forum's called. ::)
Quote from: TheouLive on September 20, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
In any event, I came here to discuss with atheists not to debate the existence of God, but rather reveal that spirituality is not so bad without the extremism. I feel that many atheists I have spoken with in the past use the non-proof of God to justify a non-morality per say. Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have to have no morals and break the law.
R
Just because atheists don't believe in a supernatural giver of morals does not mean we are all amoral people. I have heard this this argument before and it still makes no sense. Atheists have just as strong morals as religious dudes, if not more.
"If not for religion you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil it takes faith."
I don't think I've ever met an unhappy atheist. At least not ones who are unhappy with atheism.
I don't think I get the game.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on September 21, 2011, 01:22:30 AM
I don't think I get the game.
How do we recognise the winner, or is this a game where everybody wins?
or maybe a game that never ends. I hate those games, we need a clear end to the game and a clear winner.
Please define the rules.
Quote from: TheouLive on September 20, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
In contrast to many atheists I have spoken with, it's a refreshing change to see "happy" atheists. Many atheists I had previously talked with are negative and surround themselves with negativity. Alas, perhaps I have found "happy atheists"
In any event, I came here to discuss with atheists not to debate the existence of God, but rather reveal that spirituality is not so bad without the extremism. I feel that many atheists I have spoken with in the past use the non-proof of God to justify a non-morality per say. Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have to have no morals and break the law.
Regardless and above all, I respect the freedom that is given to all people on this planet. In that I respect most atheists that have positive contributions to society. Perhaps a "happy atheist" at the very least may be able to respect the positive contributions of spirituality, such as unconditional love and understanding?
Feel free to PM me for deeper discussions!
I hope you stick around long enough to be able to post a reply in this section. I have been surprised on more than one occasion by friends who claim to be or whom I've thought to be atheists/agnostics but retain some sort of belief in something they label as spirituality. Not once have I fished out a working definition of the term or concept.
As for the morality issue, wouldn't you say that someone who does the morally right thing (another watery, subjective concept) without the promise of everlasting life or the threat of condemnation to eternal suffering is doing so out of more, shall we say, "moral" or unselfish reasons? Maybe this is off topic, but I cannot accept the premise of altruism in a reward-/punishment-based philosophical rubric. I may be putting words in your mouth, but it seems to me when you say "Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have to have no morals and break the law," you are pointing to some sort of overarching, absolute objectivity that, I'm guessing, you're positing as god or some other metaphysical entity.
God said, "Don't break the law." So, you don't out of fear that your teeth may be gnashed and your flesh burned forever and ever? Anecdotally, I don't break the law (aside from minor offenses like jay walking or being drunk in public :P) because I "believe" that doing so disrupts civility. In other words, I don't steal from my neighbors because, judging from my experiences, that would be kind of a bummer for them to come home and find a beerless refrigerator. God didn't have to tell me not to take their beer. Have you ever thought that humans may have evolved, via natural selection, a tendency toward altruism? We survive better in our environment as a group, tribe, etc.; we are able to hunt more effectively, just like lions, in a cooperative. Therefore, our ancestors who possessed these cooperative/altruistic genes, may have passed them along. Now, everyone's fridge is full of beer, or something like that.
Quote from: Chronos on September 21, 2011, 12:56:57 AM
I don't think I've ever met an unhappy atheist. At least not ones who are unhappy with atheism.
Yeah. Even the infamous Grumpy Lumpy is quite happy with being an atheist.
Quote from: TheouLive on September 20, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
Perhaps a "happy atheist" at the very least may be able to respect the positive contributions of spirituality, such as unconditional love and understanding?
I don't think those are the result of 'spirituality' they are the result of humanism.
Btw, implying that many atheists don't have a moral framework is not a very good way to start out talking to a bunch of atheists...I hope you didn't mean to make that implication.
And please do tell how unconditional love and understanding are spiritual? ???
If you're being serious, you should first define exactly what you mean when you use those words.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on September 21, 2011, 01:22:30 AM
I don't think I get the game.
By the time I'd gotten to your post, I'd forgotten the OP had even mentioned a game!
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 21, 2011, 02:23:18 AM
And please do tell how unconditional love and understanding are spiritual? ???
If you're being serious, you should first define exactly what you mean when you use those words.
I'm going to take a stab at this, tho I'm fairly certain I'll be wrong. Perhaps the connection lies in a requirement for mindlessness in both things? My own not very sure definition of "spirituality" is a belief in things that can't be proven, whether it's gods or ghosts; in other words things to which one
cannot apply the intellect, even if one wants to, so it must be accepted emotionally.
Unconditional love also suggests mindless, emotional acceptance to me and I've never been able to believe that unconditional love is a good thing. It's unchallenging, it sets no bars, which seems to me actually detrimental to the development of character. Perhaps unconditional love is something that's best left to questionable spiritual beings to dispense.
The bit about understanding I'm at a loss about. I don't see how my lack of belief in unprovable things can effect my ability to understand, say, the theory of evolution. But maybe what the OP means is that lack of belief in unprovable things keeps you from understanding how believing in unprovable things can be a benefit. That one is way too murky for me.
I think it's handy that religious people think they'll get credit from god by doing unpleasant work, like working with incontinent elderly folk. They'll often work cheap or for free even. It's annoying that they'll try to deny me the right to choose not to continue my own life if it turns shitty.
I don't really understand unconditional love.
If someone performs heinous acts it's unlikely they'll receive love from me.
Welcome
O
Quote from: TheouLive on September 20, 2011, 08:12:38 PM
In contrast to many atheists I have spoken with, it's a refreshing change to see "happy" atheists. Many atheists I had previously talked with are negative and surround themselves with negativity. Alas, perhaps I have found "happy atheists"
In any event, I came here to discuss with atheists not to debate the existence of God, but rather reveal that spirituality is not so bad without the extremism. I feel that many atheists I have spoken with in the past use the non-proof of God to justify a non-morality per say. Just because you are an atheist doesn't mean you have to have no morals and break the law.
Regardless and above all, I respect the freedom that is given to all people on this planet. In that I respect most atheists that have positive contributions to society. Perhaps a "happy atheist" at the very least may be able to respect the positive contributions of spirituality, such as unconditional love and understanding?
Feel free to PM me for deeper discussions!
I don't know any unhappy atheists. In fact I think you'll find that many contributors here have come to atheism from the church and found much solace and personal peace having deconverted.
Have you REALLY talked to 'many' negative atheists?
Quote from: Scissorlegs on September 21, 2011, 09:11:06 AM
Have you REALLY talked to 'many' negative atheists?
If the answer is yes, could the reason lie in
your personality, behavior or something else that has to do with
you, and not the atheists in question?
(In case of misunderstandings: question is directed at TheouLive, not Scissorlegs)
We aren't really denying the existence of the ugly atheist are we?
I've exchanged posts with them, back in the day the church was the light that drew these mad hate filled twisted fuckers in, now we share them.
Non belief is amorphous, I'd assume there's a whole range of happiness going on.
I'm sure there are negative, unhappy atheists, just as there are negative, unhappy Christians, Jews, Muslims, White folk, Brown folk, Women folk, Men folk, etc.
There are always going to be negative, unhappy people. Sweeping assumptions don't really get to the heart of why, though. (some) Christians assume that Jesus makes everyone happy because that is part of their dogma and I think a lot of them are fully willing to ignore the actual reality of the people living around them.
Afterall, why would you want to really scientifically study human happiness and it's causes, roots, correlations when you have a book that flat out tells you that the root of all human happiness is religious belief.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on September 21, 2011, 03:12:39 AM
I'm going to take a stab at this, tho I'm fairly certain I'll be wrong. Perhaps the connection lies in a requirement for mindlessness in both things? My own not very sure definition of "spirituality" is a belief in things that can't be proven, whether it's gods or ghosts; in other words things to which one cannot apply the intellect, even if one wants to, so it must be accepted emotionally.
Unconditional love also suggests mindless, emotional acceptance to me and I've never been able to believe that unconditional love is a good thing. It's unchallenging, it sets no bars, which seems to me actually detrimental to the development of character. Perhaps unconditional love is something that's best left to questionable spiritual beings to dispense.
The bit about understanding I'm at a loss about. I don't see how my lack of belief in unprovable things can effect my ability to understand, say, the theory of evolution. But maybe what the OP means is that lack of belief in unprovable things keeps you from understanding how believing in unprovable things can be a benefit. That one is way too murky for me.
Perhaps, there is a certain amount of mindlessness that's pervasive among theistic religions. ::)
I've always associated understanding with knowledge, never with any form of vague 'spirituality'.
As for unconditional love, I do have unconditional love for those closest to me, but that also doesn't mean unconditional tolerance. My father, for instance, is a shit and I have less and less patience and tolerance for him and the things he does, but he's still my father. It also has nothing to do with 'spirituality'.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 21, 2011, 06:14:12 PM
As for unconditional love, I do have unconditional love for those closest to me, but that also doesn't mean unconditional tolerance. My father, for instance, is a shit and I have less and less patience and tolerance for him and the things he does, but he's still my father. It also has nothing to do with 'spirituality'.
Nya unconditional love what absolute crap who invented this, he's not well give allowance, ye OK my brother Adlolph he's sorry.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on September 21, 2011, 06:53:26 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 21, 2011, 06:14:12 PM
As for unconditional love, I do have unconditional love for those closest to me, but that also doesn't mean unconditional tolerance. My father, for instance, is a shit and I have less and less patience and tolerance for him and the things he does, but he's still my father. It also has nothing to do with 'spirituality'.
Nya unconditional love what absolute crap who invented this, he's not well give allowance, ye OK my brother Adlolph he's sorry.
My brains must be scrambled, but that didn't make much sense to me. ???
I decide on what grounds and to what extent I'll pardon and give allowance for certain behaviours and trespasses, based on their causes. My family is my family.
I don't base those on emotion, however, which I see to be more destructive than anything. If I did, I would be in a very different place right now, possibly.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 21, 2011, 08:47:57 PM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on September 21, 2011, 06:53:26 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 21, 2011, 06:14:12 PM
As for unconditional love, I do have unconditional love for those closest to me, but that also doesn't mean unconditional tolerance. My father, for instance, is a shit and I have less and less patience and tolerance for him and the things he does, but he's still my father. It also has nothing to do with 'spirituality'.
Nya unconditional love what absolute crap who invented this, he's not well give allowance, ye OK my brother Adlolph he's sorry.
My brains must be scrambled, but that didn't make much sense to me. ???
I agree, I think TMP has finally lost it, whatever it was ;D
Quote from: Tank on September 21, 2011, 08:52:45 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 21, 2011, 08:47:57 PM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on September 21, 2011, 06:53:26 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 21, 2011, 06:14:12 PM
As for unconditional love, I do have unconditional love for those closest to me, but that also doesn't mean unconditional tolerance. My father, for instance, is a shit and I have less and less patience and tolerance for him and the things he does, but he's still my father. It also has nothing to do with 'spirituality'.
Nya unconditional love what absolute crap who invented this, he's not well give allowance, ye OK my brother Adlolph he's sorry.
My brains must be scrambled, but that didn't make much sense to me. ???
I agree, I think TMP has finally lost it, whatever it was ;D
Scrambled brains shouldn't be blamed for not understanding my posts.
Scramblidity is actually a useful starting point for understanding.
I can't agree with the finally lost it accusation either.
I loose it all the time and it takes ages to find it again.
It'd be easier if I could just remember what I'm looking for.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on September 22, 2011, 02:38:14 AM
Scrambled brains shouldn't be blamed for not understanding my posts.
Scramblidity is actually a useful starting point for understanding.
I thought you were having a go at speaking in tongues!
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on September 21, 2011, 06:14:12 PM
As for unconditional love, I do have unconditional love for those closest to me, but that also doesn't mean unconditional tolerance. My father, for instance, is a shit and I have less and less patience and tolerance for him and the things he does, but he's still my father. It also has nothing to do with 'spirituality'.
I kind of understand what you mean here, being in a similar position with my mother, whom I haven't seen or spoken to in nearly 20 years (it's the only way I can put up with her). There's no question that I don't love her the way I loved my Dad, but I can't really say I hate her either, despite everything, and if she needed help I'd give it to her with only one condition -- that we didn't need to be in the same room for it. That's not unconditional love, but it's something above and beyond what I'd allow anyone else.
I have a feeling OP may not return, but i'll post anyway.
I don't believe in unconditional love. You can love someone up to a point. Sometimes people fall out of love, it happens.
If I am with someone, but then years later, he gets laid off, then developes an alcohol addiction and beats me-- will I love him? Not as much as I love myself to get out of that situation asap.
As far as morals go. I myself don't smoke, drink or even drive xD I don't go out there to purposely break laws either. Then again, I spend a lot of time at home sacraficing babies. e__e
Quote from: Sweetdeath on September 23, 2011, 06:50:33 AM
I have a feeling OP may not return, but i'll post anyway.
I don't suppose I'd get any takers on a bet that the OP is off crabbing that those "happy atheists" he found are just as angry and bitter as all other atheists he's ever talked to? While I don't deny the existence of angry, bitter atheist I have to ditto Asmodean here in thinking there's some cause and effect going on here with the
OP talking to atheists.
Still only the one visit, looking more like a troll by the day.
sooooo....no game? :( i got all excited for nuthin.
Quote from: fyv0h on September 29, 2011, 02:50:53 AM
sooooo....no game? :( i got all excited for nuthin.
Yep, still only the one visit, evidently just a troll.
Some gamer. ::)
Sorry, it's rolling.
What a weird troll...I wonder who it is? ???
(Not that this one looks familiar, but there's just something that's rotten about this one.)