After-birth abortion

[Sandra Craft]

Maybe we should also extend this sacredness we attach to human life to other intelligent species?

As much as I love bacon, I'm trying to do this.

[Too Few Lions]

Maybe we should also extend this sacredness we attach to human life to other intelligent species?

As much as I love bacon, I'm trying to do this.

same goes. I really really love smoked bacon, but I am seriously considering giving up eating other mammals, and I'm uncomfortable with the way we kill them on an industrial scale.

[Sandra Craft]

[As much as I love bacon, I'm trying to do this.

same goes. I really really love smoked bacon, but I am seriously considering giving up eating other mammals, and I'm uncomfortable with the way we kill them on an industrial scale.

And the horrifying conditions they live in before being killed.  I know there's a movement afoot for kinder raising of food animals but I'm finding lately that even that gives me a bad conscience.  If there were nothing else to eat it would be different but I have no real reason to eat meat.

[Too Few Lions]

[As much as I love bacon, I'm trying to do this.

same goes. I really really love smoked bacon, but I am seriously considering giving up eating other mammals, and I'm uncomfortable with the way we kill them on an industrial scale.

And the horrifying conditions they live in before being killed.  I know there's a movement afoot for kinder raising of food animals but I'm finding lately that even that gives me a bad conscience.  If there were nothing else to eat it would be different but I have no real reason to eat meat.

same goes. It wouldn't be hard for me to give it up either, as I my girlfriend doesn't eat meat, so I never really get to buy any (apart from a few rashers of bacon now and again!)

[Asmodean]

same goes. I really really love smoked bacon, but I am seriously considering giving up eating other mammals, and I'm uncomfortable with the way we kill them on an industrial scale.

Worry not! If you do, it will mean more meat for The Asmo  

We generally do a "better" job of killing animals than hyenas, for example, do we not?

[The Magic Pudding]

We generally do a "better" job of killing animals than hyenas, for example, do we not?

That's something you could argue about.
But it's not just how they die, there's how we make them live to be considered.
Hyenas, lions, leopards keep other animals in constant fear pretty much from when they're born.  I won't venture to compare that to what we do for now, it's a fucked up system though, don't know why people are so keen to ascribe its design to their saviour.

[Asmodean]

We generally do a "better" job of killing animals than hyenas, for example, do we not?

That's something you could argue about.
But it's not just how they die, there's how we make them live to be considered.
Hyenas, lions, leopards keep other animals in constant fear pretty much from when their born.  I won't venture to compare that to what we do for now, it's a fucked up system though, don't know why people are so keen to ascribe its design to their saviour.

Yes! Listen to the wise Pudding!

My burger, it did not live a life in fear of The Asmo, therefore, when Asmos attack, it gets what it deserved.

[Sandra Craft]

same goes. It wouldn't be hard for me to give it up either, as I my girlfriend doesn't eat meat, so I never really get to buy any (apart from a few rashers of bacon now and again!)

You're lucky -- my girlfriend does eat meat, loves it in fact, so the temptation will always be around.

Worry not! If you do, it will mean more meat for The Asmo 

I plan to put "Asmo" stickers on all the meat I don't buy for myself.

We generally do a "better" job of killing animals than hyenas, for example, do we not?

Considering what we do before killing them (in most cases), I'd say it's 6 of one and half dozen of the other.  In any case, that arguement doesn't make me feel better.

[Asmodean]

I plan to put "Asmo" stickers on all the meat I don't buy for myself.

Having his "own" brand of meat would please the grayly grumpy one 

[Ali]

[As much as I love bacon, I'm trying to do this.

same goes. I really really love smoked bacon, but I am seriously considering giving up eating other mammals, and I'm uncomfortable with the way we kill them on an industrial scale.

And the horrifying conditions they live in before being killed.  I know there's a movement afoot for kinder raising of food animals but I'm finding lately that even that gives me a bad conscience.  If there were nothing else to eat it would be different but I have no real reason to eat meat.

same goes. It wouldn't be hard for me to give it up either, as I my girlfriend doesn't eat meat, so I never really get to buy any (apart from a few rashers of bacon now and again!)

My rule is that I don't eat anything with a face.   

Pudding, I disagree about the living conditions argument.  I think I might actually eat meat if most meat animals were raised under better circumstances.  At least in the states, the living conditions have very little to do with what is humane, and everything to do with what maximizes output and profits.  Like, if you drive past a KFC, you can see deals like "Whole Chicken - $9.99."  But if you think about it, what that means is that the entire life of that chicken must have cost less than $9.99 to take care of it.  What kind of life could it have had?  It's just...stomach turning.  I don't mind the killing so much.  Everything dies, regardless of whether or not I eat it.  I can't bear the lousy living conditions on my behalf.

[The Magic Pudding]

My rule is that I don't eat anything with a face.   

Pudding, I disagree about the living conditions argument.  I think I might actually eat meat if most meat animals were raised under better circumstances.  At least in the states, the living conditions have very little to do with what is humane, and everything to do with what maximizes output and profits.  Like, if you drive past a KFC, you can see deals like "Whole Chicken - $9.99."  But if you think about it, what that means is that the entire life of that chicken must have cost less than $9.99 to take care of it.  What kind of life could it have had?  It's just...stomach turning.  I don't mind the killing so much.  Everything dies, regardless of whether or not I eat it.  I can't bear the lousy living conditions on my behalf.

But that's $9.99 for a cooked chicken.
Whole chickens frequently sell for $4 a kilo, sometimes $3.  $4 per kg = $1.80lb
There'd still be a profit margin for those in the chain that supplies these things.
I find it odd that something easy to grow like a cucumber or zucchini, doesn't require refrigeration or preparation, yet they often cost more by weight than chicken.

[Buddy]

[As much as I love bacon, I'm trying to do this.

same goes. I really really love smoked bacon, but I am seriously considering giving up eating other mammals, and I'm uncomfortable with the way we kill them on an industrial scale.

And the horrifying conditions they live in before being killed.  I know there's a movement afoot for kinder raising of food animals but I'm finding lately that even that gives me a bad conscience.  If there were nothing else to eat it would be different but I have no real reason to eat meat.

same goes. It wouldn't be hard for me to give it up either, as I my girlfriend doesn't eat meat, so I never really get to buy any (apart from a few rashers of bacon now and again!)

My rule is that I don't eat anything with a face.   

Pudding, I disagree about the living conditions argument.  I think I might actually eat meat if most meat animals were raised under better circumstances.  At least in the states, the living conditions have very little to do with what is humane, and everything to do with what maximizes output and profits.  Like, if you drive past a KFC, you can see deals like "Whole Chicken - $9.99."  But if you think about it, what that means is that the entire life of that chicken must have cost less than $9.99 to take care of it.  What kind of life could it have had?  It's just...stomach turning.  I don't mind the killing so much.  Everything dies, regardless of whether or not I eat it.  I can't bear the lousy living conditions on my behalf.

I actually just finished a six-week course on meat processing, and I was actually surprised to find out that chickens and other poultry actually like being in a large group. Apparently, it's comforting to them. We actually went to a cattle operation, and I kid you not, those cattle seemed healthier than most of the pets that I've seen. 

[Asmodean]

...I kid you not, those cattle seemed healthier than most of the pets that I've seen. 

People are willing to pay more for a "healthy" looking slab of beef.

[Ali]

[As much as I love bacon, I'm trying to do this.

same goes. I really really love smoked bacon, but I am seriously considering giving up eating other mammals, and I'm uncomfortable with the way we kill them on an industrial scale.

And the horrifying conditions they live in before being killed.  I know there's a movement afoot for kinder raising of food animals but I'm finding lately that even that gives me a bad conscience.  If there were nothing else to eat it would be different but I have no real reason to eat meat.

same goes. It wouldn't be hard for me to give it up either, as I my girlfriend doesn't eat meat, so I never really get to buy any (apart from a few rashers of bacon now and again!)

My rule is that I don't eat anything with a face.   

Pudding, I disagree about the living conditions argument.  I think I might actually eat meat if most meat animals were raised under better circumstances.  At least in the states, the living conditions have very little to do with what is humane, and everything to do with what maximizes output and profits.  Like, if you drive past a KFC, you can see deals like "Whole Chicken - $9.99."  But if you think about it, what that means is that the entire life of that chicken must have cost less than $9.99 to take care of it.  What kind of life could it have had?  It's just...stomach turning.  I don't mind the killing so much.  Everything dies, regardless of whether or not I eat it.  I can't bear the lousy living conditions on my behalf.

I actually just finished a six-week course on meat processing, and I was actually surprised to find out that chickens and other poultry actually like being in a large group. Apparently, it's comforting to them. We actually went to a cattle operation, and I kid you not, those cattle seemed healthier than most of the pets that I've seen. 

Not to get all PETA on you, but the Humane Society begs to disagree.  For example:  http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/confinement_farm/facts/battery_cages.html

[Buddy]

Not to get all PETA on you, but the Humane Society begs to disagree.  For example:  http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/confinement_farm/facts/battery_cages.html

I usually don't hold HSUS to a grain of salt. They and PETA are actually partnered.

Every cage that I have seen only housed one hen. And about the small cages; they keep them separated to prevent disease. Laying hen death rates have dropped from 27% down too 3%. With the cage system, the hens are raised off the ground so that they don't ever come in contact with waste. They have 24 hour access to food and water. Another reason they are kept last night is to make sure all the hens gets the same amount of food, water, and medical care. Cage systems are usually only used with the egg laying hens. The meat poultry birds are housed in large barns.


The pipes are what bring in the food, which never comes in contact with the ground. When my animal science class visited a poultry farm we were required to put on full body plastic suits and shower both in and out. This was to prevent the birds from any contaminates that we had.

I really don't want to convert you from vegetarianism, I just hate it when people say something is cruel when the animal is just fine.