Hi guys, it's been a while since I was posted here. I've become a bit of a lurker. Nevertheless, I've got a concern that I need some help with as soon as possible.
I'm not too sure if this is the right place to post this. Mods please move the topic if it isn't.
I'm an atheist and my boyfriend is an atheist. I've just moved out of my dad's house and I'm going back there tomorrow (Saturday 18 June) for dinner with my boyfriend, who is a relatively new addition to my life. My father and stepmom compulsively grab hands and pray around the supper table every supper, even in restaurants. They tried that in my new place recently when I catered for them and I distracted them by proposing a toast. They relented because they were under my roof.
However, tomorrow I'll be under their roof, and they're going to reach for my boyfriend and my hands so they can pray. How do I decline without making it a lengthy, offensive thing that draws heaps of attention to an already awkward situation with my new boyfriend? Do I just wave my hand, smile and say, "No thanks." ?
How does this work? Please help. I'm extremely nervous thinking about tomorrow night is going to go down. It's complicated enough knowing my boyfriend's strong opinions on homosexuality and race etc and knowing my dad's and stepmom's bigotry. The room for conflict is MASSIVE as is.
Quote from: kelltrill on June 17, 2011, 03:06:42 PM
Hi guys, it's been a while since I was posted here. I've become a bit of a lurker. Nevertheless, I've got a concern that I need some help with as soon as possible.
I'm not too sure if this is the right place to post this. Mods please move the topic if it isn't.
I'm an atheist and my boyfriend is an atheist. I've just moved out of my dad's house and I'm going back there tomorrow (Saturday 18 June) for dinner with my boyfriend, who is a relatively new addition to my life. My father and stepmom compulsively grab hands and pray around the supper table every supper, even in restaurants. They tried that in my new place recently when I catered for them and I distracted them by proposing a toast. They relented because they were under my roof.
However, tomorrow I'll be under their roof, and they're going to reach for my boyfriend and my hands so they can pray. How do I decline without making it a lengthy, offensive thing that draws heaps of attention to an already awkward situation with my new boyfriend? Do I just wave my hand, smile and say, "No thanks." ?
How does this work? Please help. I'm extremely nervous thinking about tomorrow night is going to go down. It's complicated enough knowing my boyfriend's strong opinions on homosexuality and race etc and knowing my dad's and stepmom's bigotry. The room for conflict is MASSIVE as is.
You and your boyfriend just put your hands in your laps and keep them there, that's all. Put the emotional weight/stress on your Dad and stepmother to make an effort to take them. Politely decline and say something along the lines of "go ahead, don't mind us." If they are looking for an argument you're not going to be able to stop them. However holding a neutral stance on your part won't provoke a confrontation if they are not looking to start an argument.
What is the issue with letting them grab your hands and letting them pray? For years I saw my grandfather sit quietly while the rest of the family spoke the prayer out loud. I would think it is a respect thing for your parents, as you stated, being that you will be at their house. Just grasp and sit quietly.
Or, is it a prayer that involves everyone at the table? If so, than Tank's advice about politely declining is probably the best course.
i would just take Tank's advice and sit quietly without prayer. It's more disrespectful to fake pray. Just thank them for the home cook meal or whatever.
On the rare occasion when I'm with family that says a prayer at dinner I just sit quietly.
I don't like creating drama with family...I'd probably hold hands as long as it didn't involve me actually praying; yet holding hands vs just sitting there doesn't have much of a symbolic difference to me (I'm sure it could be different for someone from a different background). However, I would not be so complacent if I had family who said prayers that offended me (like please god let all the gays learn to stop being wicked...and such nonsense) but my family just keeps it to very short thank you type prayers.
In short, do whatever you feel comfortable doing.
Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it. For some bizarre reason the praying never happened. I think they might have sensed my anxiety. I just kept talking with the hope that we could talk right through it and I started eating the moment the food was ready. Phew, so awkward, and not the last time I'm going to have to pull evasive tactics.
Thanks for the support :) Would feel so lost without this forum.
I found it uncomfortable at my second daughter's wedding: she got the priest to say some blessings over me and my wife because it was our 38th wedding anniversary. I just stood there and didn't upset the apple-cart, of course, but had to resist the temptation to say something in my father-of-the-bride's speech.
Apart from that I was fine with both my daughters' church weddings; I just didn't say any of the prayers. But that blessing was something unusual, aimed right at me, and I didn't like it.
Quote from: OldGit on June 21, 2011, 10:52:21 AM
I found it uncomfortable at my second daughter's wedding: she got the priest to say some blessings over me and my wife because it was our 38th wedding anniversary. I just stood there and didn't upset the apple-cart, of course, but had to resist the temptation to say something in my father-of-the-bride's speech.
Apart from that I was fine with both my daughters' church weddings; I just didn't say any of the prayers. But that blessing was something unusual, aimed right at me, and I didn't like it.
No, it's hardly something for you. It's something for them under the guise of being for you. Not something to be appreciative of.
Quote from: kelltrill on June 21, 2011, 09:45:12 AM
Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it. For some bizarre reason the praying never happened. I think they might have sensed my anxiety. I just kept talking with the hope that we could talk right through it and I started eating the moment the food was ready. Phew, so awkward, and not the last time I'm going to have to pull evasive tactics.
Thanks for the support :) Would feel so lost without this forum.
That all went as well as could be expected. Obviously your Dad isn't as daft as you took him for :) How did they take to your boyfriend?
Quote from: Tank on June 21, 2011, 11:47:11 AM
That all went as well as could be expected. Obviously your Dad isn't as daft as you took him for :) How did they take to your boyfriend?
My dad is pretty daft when it comes to me and even worse when it comes to religion, so him skipping food prayers for the first time in history is not worth applauding in my books I don't think. He's told me to my face that I'm going to Hell.
Both the father and stepmom like the boyfriend though, although it's difficult not to. He really is great. I'm batshit crazy about him. We actually met through online dating, which very few people know because I'm quite shy about the stigma attached to it.
@OldGit, I'd agree with Stevil, prayers/blessings like that have nothing to do with the object of the prayer. It's to assuage the believer's own conviction that they're a kind, generous, good theist.
Quote from: kelltrill on June 22, 2011, 08:16:14 AM
Quote from: Tank on June 21, 2011, 11:47:11 AM
That all went as well as could be expected. Obviously your Dad isn't as daft as you took him for :) How did they take to your boyfriend?
My dad is pretty daft when it comes to me and even worse when it comes to religion, so him skipping food prayers for the first time in history is not worth applauding in my books I don't think. He's told me to my face that I'm going to Hell.
Both the father and stepmom like the boyfriend though, although it's difficult not to. He really is great. I'm batshit crazy about him. We actually met through online dating, which very few people know because I'm quite shy about the stigma attached to it.
Why do you think they didn't do the prayers then?
Quote from: keltrill@OldGit, I'd agree with Stevil, prayers/blessings like that have nothing to do with the object of the prayer. It's to assuage the believer's own conviction that they're a kind, generous, good theist.
I agree, but somehow it still made me squirm! ::)
Quote from: kelltrill on June 22, 2011, 08:16:14 AM
which very few people know because I'm quite shy about the stigma attached to it.
There doesn't seem to be a stigma attached to it anymore as long as you are around gen X or gen Y aged people.
Quote from: Tank on June 22, 2011, 08:22:33 AM
Why do you think they didn't do the prayers then?
I'm not entirely sure. The awkwardness was tangible, so I'm sure that must have had an effect on it. The argument we had over the previous weekend about religion must have also influenced the decision. My stepmom was still looking around in that eager-to-pray way, but i think overall the awkwardness over-rode their desire to pray.
Quote from: kelltrill on June 27, 2011, 10:28:08 AM
Quote from: Tank on June 22, 2011, 08:22:33 AM
Why do you think they didn't do the prayers then?
I'm not entirely sure. The awkwardness was tangible, so I'm sure that must have had an effect on it. The argument we had over the previous weekend about religion must have also influenced the decision. My stepmom was still looking around in that eager-to-pray way, but i think overall the awkwardness over-rode their desire to pray.
That sounds reasonable. It shows there is some level of sensitivity there. You know what I would consider doing? Have a chat with your dad and tell him you don't mind them preying but that you and your boyfriend would feel uncomfortable joining in. That would be a nice way of creating a demarcation where you both feel comfortable. In a way it's not fair on them if they feel they can't do what they want in their own house. What do you think?
Quote from: Tank on June 27, 2011, 10:47:39 AM
That sounds reasonable. It shows there is some level of sensitivity there. You know what I would consider doing? Have a chat with your dad and tell him you don't mind them preying but that you and your boyfriend would feel uncomfortable joining in. That would be a nice way of creating a demarcation where you both feel comfortable. In a way it's not fair on them if they feel they can't do what they want in their own house. What do you think?
Hmm, he's not the most approachable kinda guy, but I think you have a good point there. It will alleviate the awkwardness next time we come around. Next time an invite in either direction is issued I'll definitely have a chat with him about it. Argh, he's so difficult to chat to. *sigh*
But this will hopefully just be once-off and worth it. Thanks for the advice :)
I personally just sit along with the praying. I imagine to myself what poeple are actually thinking. Probably thinking what I'm thinking. Then I look around the room and spy the people looking around the room. It's a game.
Yeah I do the same.