Happy Atheist Forum

I know I seem like that only crybaby who complains on forums about my personal adversity, and I am not sure why I even created this thread. On the other hand, I just wanted to know if anyone else feels like this. As an atheist (and as a christian in the past)....I've ALWAYS felt like life was a heavy burden. I cannot stand breathing, and I fail to develop a meaning for all of this. As a struggling alcoholic, I consistently fail to create meaningful relationships with people. If it were up to me, I would choose to thrive on my own without the aid of others. Yet, as a social creature, I lie to myself. I truly DESIRE to have relationships with other people ( a girlfriend would be nice as well).

As a social animal, I realized that I cannot live without a community. Everytime I enter in social environments, I always feel like I have to put on a mask to fit in with people. This has been going on for years. I almost feel like there is this 'dark force' that will not leave me alone. I tried to develop this attitude of indifference, but I always seem to retract to that same emotional state. I'm beginning to feel as if I am simply mentally unstable. As I said, I am not even sure why I created this thread, but suicide seems like the only solution to my 'problem' because living is just causing more pain than I can possibly bear. If (rather, when I decide to commence this act), I'd like to let all of you know that you have provided a number of insights, and I am thankful for you all. Theist and atheist alike.

I can certainly relate to the wanting meaningful relationships but rationalizing situation as better-off-alone thing.

I don't see life as a burden though. No, I'm not the happiest kid on the block, nor the most successful. Still, there are things in life I'm glad to have experienced. I'm pretty sure you have those too.

But then again, it does boil down to the amount of shit thrown at you measured up against your coping capabilities, does it not..?

Quote from: "Cite134"I know I seem like that only crybaby who complains on forums about my personal adversity, and I am not sure why I even created this thread. On the other hand, I just wanted to know if anyone else feels like this.

I don't think you're a crybaby.
Yes other people do feel bleakness, the world isn't what it should be but there are good bits.

Quote from: "Cite134"As a struggling alcoholic, I consistently fail to create meaningful relationships with people. If it were up to me, I would choose to thrive on my own without the aid of others. Yet, as a social creature, I lie to myself. I truly DESIRE to have relationships with other people ( a girlfriend would be nice as well).

I'm sure you know alcohol only makes things worse.
Surely a doctor could prescribe something less damaging.

Quote from: "Cite134"As a social animal, I realized that I cannot live without a community. Everytime I enter in social environments, I always feel like I have to put on a mask to fit in with people.

Have you considered voluntary work?

Quote from: "Cite134"As I said, I am not even sure why I created this thread, but suicide seems like the only solution to my 'problem' because living is just causing more pain than I can possibly bear.

I'm sure others can answer your questions much better than me, but while we're waiting for some wisdom, I'll just say life can get better.

I agree with the above posts in that there are the happier parts of life to look forward to, but I've also been in your position having been prescribed anti-depressants and my family hiding the kitchen knives every night. I've often sat up at night thinking about how I've lost most if not all of my closest friends and relationships due to my paranoia and self diagnosed agoraphobia. I've never touched the bottle but suicide was a common thought and still is at times, the only things keeping me from attempting it were my personal responsibilities for the things I still love (Gf/Dog/WoW :drool    I tend to have a habit of telling my stories here, but I'm trying to relate to you that there are things to live for no matter how shitty life seems.

You certainly aren't a crybaby, life sucks big time.

 Adopt a puppy, or a kitten, or any animal really because what I've found is that even when I've fucked up everything and every relationship I can still come home and have my dog waiting for me and it's as if she lives only to make me happy, everything she does makes me smile or laugh.

P.S. I've also heard that dogs can be great conversation starters ;P To help with that girlfriend thing.

Quote from: "Category"P.S. I've also heard that dogs can be great conversation starters ;P To help with that girlfriend thing.

Giving my rats a sausage makes their ears go rounder than satellite dishes. Those ears, they've melted a few hearts for me  :raised:  )

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "Category"P.S. I've also heard that dogs can be great conversation starters ;P To help with that girlfriend thing.

Giving my rats a sausage makes their ears go rounder than satellite dishes. Those ears, they've melted a few hearts for me  :raised:  )

  Poor thing...
I <3 my beagle, there's no way to walk her peacefully everyone has to pet her.

Thanks for all the responses. I suppose my first problem is the alcohol, because I realize that I am not AS suicdial in a sober state of mind. On the other hand, when I am sober I feel the need to drink. Secondly, I am having a very difficult time developing a meaning for this life. I continuously find futility in everything I've considered medication, but I don't have the money to obtain it :verysad:

Maybe I should invest in getting a pet ( I feel like I can trust a dog more than my own species alot of times). But the last time the house (I share a house with college roomates) had a cat, there was complaining going on about the droppings. The absence of companionship may aslo be a contributor to my personal adversity.

In addition, I understand that this is not a psychology forum or anything like that, I suppose I am just venting.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: "Cite134"I know I seem like that only crybaby who complains on forums about my personal adversity, and I am not sure why I even created this thread. On the other hand, I just wanted to know if anyone else feels like this.

I don't think you're a crybaby.
Yes other people do feel bleakness, the world isn't what it should be but there are good bits.

Quote from: "Cite134"As a struggling alcoholic, I consistently fail to create meaningful relationships with people. If it were up to me, I would choose to thrive on my own without the aid of others. Yet, as a social creature, I lie to myself. I truly DESIRE to have relationships with other people ( a girlfriend would be nice as well).

I'm sure you know alcohol only makes things worse.
Surely a doctor could prescribe something less damaging.

Quote from: "Cite134"As a social animal, I realized that I cannot live without a community. Everytime I enter in social environments, I always feel like I have to put on a mask to fit in with people.

Have you considered voluntary work?

Quote from: "Cite134"As I said, I am not even sure why I created this thread, but suicide seems like the only solution to my 'problem' because living is just causing more pain than I can possibly bear.

I'm sure others can answer your questions much better than me, but while we're waiting for some wisdom, I'll just say life can get better.

I haven't tried voluntary work....that actually sounds like a good idea.

There is a quote I came to like once I entered the realm of "suicide awareness". I believe it goes something like this,

QuoteSuicide: A Permanent Solution to a Temporary Problem.

With that out of the way, I'll add that I do know how you feel. Depression can make life seem more burdensome than it should be. But may I also add, that with all the woes and pains of life, it can always get better. Sometimes I think of myself as living proof of this. There were so many times in the past where I could have killed myself - I’ve even had a few close calls. But there was always something that held me back from committing suicide. Even though we may feel like absolute shite at times (adding alcohol and drugs could very well worsen how you feel, but that's entirely another subject.)

Getting over depression can be the hardest thing for someone to do, but it is possible. Giving your life meaning with (goals, family, friends, etc) is a good start. I had struggled with depression through my teens and into my early twenties, but I've given myself more meaning since five to seven years ago. With goals, family, even the occasional relationship (but I can honestly say, as someone previously said, sometimes you’re better off alone). Not always, but from the relationships I’ve experienced those people I involved myself with left me worse than they found me. So, I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on them. Although, when they work out, it is rather nice to have them; so it’s completely understandable for you to want one.

If I can give you any advice, it would be this:

Do rethink your position that suicide is the only solution to your problem. You might come to find that you develop a desire to live (as I’ve found, once I rethought the subject myself.)

I apologize for being all preachy, touchy-feely. I always feel the need to say that to people who give suicide serious consideration as their last resort to feeling better. Losing people to suicide is always tragic and heart-wrenching (as I’ve lost some of the dearest people I’ve come to know) through the means of suicide.

…I think it’s time to end my rambling post now.

Quote from: "Cite134"I know I seem like that only crybaby who complains on forums about my personal adversity, and I am not sure why I even created this thread.

Nah, you're probably the only person on this forum with whom I would be interested in talking.

It's simple, and I'm not going to bullshit you.  There are paths to a great life, and I've gone through them.  Well, maybe not so great.  I'm not rich, but at least I get to fuck a lot of women, and I'm pretty happy.  It's a very unpleasant path, and it hurts a lot, but when you get through it, things are simple and easy and nice.  I like it.

Do you want to do it or not?

QuoteDo rethink your position that suicide is the only solution to your problem. You might come to find that you develop a desire to live (as I’ve found, once I rethought the subject myself.)

QuoteI apprecaite your input, but I believe the fundamental problem is finding a meaning in the first place. Traditional meanings such as: family, goals, or relationships are generally valued, but I always find futility in such things. So, If I do fail to develop a meaning, then suicide will be the only remedy.

Quote from: "epepke"

Quote from: "Cite134"I know I seem like that only crybaby who complains on forums about my personal adversity, and I am not sure why I even created this thread.

Nah, you're probably the only person on this forum with whom I would be interested in talking.

It's simple, and I'm not going to bullshit you.  There are paths to a great life, and I've gone through them.  Well, maybe not so great.  I'm not rich, but at least I get to fuck a lot of women, and I'm pretty happy.  It's a very unpleasant path, and it hurts a lot, but when you get through it, things are simple and easy and nice.  I like it.

Do you want to do it or not?

As the clock ticks, I find suicide to be more and more desireable.

Cite, forgive me for sounding preachy, but it sounds to me like you already know what the problems are.  What seems absent is the willpower to tackle the issues.

Please don't think I'm talking down to you; I'm not.  I share a few of the problems you mention, but not the guts to mention them.

I was born without a proper descending aorta. The necessary surgery happened when I was only 5 years old, but resulted in endocarditis, a severe heart infection. I was told, at age 5, I would never be able to lift more than 20 lbs. with my arms. I could never to sports, I could never pursue a job like policeman or fireman or soldier or astronaut. Not only that, but on my back, since age 5, has been a scar that whenever I see it reminds me of my mortality. Constantly. We moved several times when I was young, meaning I don't have the kinds of friends that go back to my childhood. When I was 17, there was a week when we moved, my dog died, and my parents told me they were getting a divorce. My best friend died from a shotgun shot to the face.

My point is things could always be worse, and you have to look at the silver lining in life. Despite my heart problem, I'm in great physical shape because I eat wel and exercise. Despite my childhood, I have a tight-knit group of friends who I know I can not just trust with my life, but with whom I share real honesty. I have a beagle that's awesome. I got a decent job out of college which has allowed me to subsequently quit and float, doing fun jobs. I've got a great girlfriend that's crazy about me. Things aren't perfect, but I'm doing well.

Adversity of the kind you're facing right now, this very second, can be utilized to help you become a stronger, happier, healthier person. Regardless of what you think, nothing is stopping you. If you focus instead of folding, there's a real possibility that you can find your way to a life that's fulfilling and enjoyable. Nothing will ever be perfect, but there's a life worth fighting for out there for you.

Quote from: "Cite134"I've considered medication, but I don't have the money to obtain it

I have taken Rx antidepressants before and they really weren't any more expensive than if I had bought something over the counter (like st john's wort which may or may not actually work and is suspected of interfering with the birth control pill) you can always make sure the doc knows you are on a tight budget and need something affordable.  Many pharmacys offer $4 generics get a list of them and call around till you find a general practitioner who is willing to prescribe antidepressants.  You can probably pay for it by forcing yourself to wait a bit longer to drink on weekdays if you have to...plus that would be a good first step to correcting your drinking problem which is likely what is making you so depressed in the first place (alcohol is a depressant/downer drug).

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"Cite, forgive me for sounding preachy, but it sounds to me like you already know what the problems are.  What seems absent is the willpower to tackle the issues.

Please don't think I'm talking down to you; I'm not.  I share a few of the problems you mention, but not the guts to mention them.

No offense taken. Perhaps I do have some knowledge of the problems...but I am not sure how or even if it's possible to take care of such a disease. That is: Finding futility in almost everything you look at.   . On the other hand, I haven't tried ALL of the conventional remedies YET, so I suppose my next move is to acquire such things.

Cite134,

I think I've been where you are. The drinking won't help. It probably wouldn't hurt to cut back.

For the depression, I suggest seeing a doctor. An antidepressant drug could have you feeling better in a few weeks.

In terms of the "futility," I think I understand. My suggestion is to, in your mind, replace "futility" with "responsibility." It's just a change of perspective but one that made me feel better. Futility implies a lack of cosmological significance and, with respect to human actions, not particularly unexpected to a critical thinker. On the other hand, responsibility is a human concept and one that is, in human terms, unavoidably achieved, for better or worse. I use those terms loosely.

For example, viewed in this way, my writing this post was in a sense futile, but that is irrelevant to me. I am now forever responsible for writing it. My action cannot be undone. It was more than a "nothing". It had meaning and that meaning I think of as "something I was responsible for" rather than "futility".

Lastly, from my own experience battling depression, it helps to write your negative thoughts down and use your critical thinking skills to find a rational argument against them. Then also write down the counter-arguments you come up with. After some repetition, the negative thought will start to go away. Writing it down is crucial. Doing it in your head will not work as well. I have no idea why. My last psychiatrist got me into it.

Take care.

Quote from: "Cite134"On the other hand, I haven't tried ALL of the conventional remedies YET, so I suppose my next move is to acquire such things.

What do you like about the world?
Don't forget about us when you answer that.

Cite, i'm not really in a position to give advice so i'll just say, i hope it gets better for you. Without the low points, we wouldn't have a frame of reference for when things are good. When things do get better, you'll look back on these times and you'll realise it made you a stronger and better person for it.

Chin up mate. Things do get better.

Good luck.

Quote from: "Cite134"As the clock ticks, I find suicide to be more and more desireable.

We already know that.  It's trite commentary.

The question is, do you want to get to a better life, or not?

You feel like killing yourself cause you don't like where you are this moment. Moments change. The world will not be a better place if you give up.

everyone thinks about suicide. some of us more than others. But if you really believe this is the only Universe than you know it will change.

what if you kill yourself right now and the pefrect thing you were wating for is right out side yur door. ANd this is it. You fucked up.

Nobody believs that shit doesnt happen by chance?

even though i am a atheist it would be hard to believe things dont happen by chance

Chance is are destiny

All fomous people were just live s of chance

mAYBE you are the leader to stop the invasion from Canada?

Quote from: "leonswan2000"what if you kill yourself right now and the pefrect thing you were wating for is right out side yur door. ANd this is it. You fucked up.

It wouldn't make a difference to me. I'd be dead.

Quote from: "epepke"

Quote from: "Cite134"As the clock ticks, I find suicide to be more and more desireable.

We already know that.  It's trite commentary.

The question is, do you want to get to a better life, or not?

I have no picture of a "better" life. Not even sure what that means.

I appreciate everyones' responses. I'm going to see if I can get redirected to a psychiatrist and retrieve medication tomorrow morning. There are days where I feel 'alright' but these down periods of mine are far too frequent for my taste. Thank you all.

Hey, Leonswan, gather your thoughts, could you?  When you fragment them so, you certainly deplete their impact.

Quote from: "Cite134"I have no picture of a "better" life. Not even sure what that means.

That's actually a very good start.  What it means is that you're probably clinically depressed.  I have some fair experience with that.  One of the terrible things about depression is that when you are in the throes of it, it becomes not only impossible to think of something better but also to remember ever having thought so.  It's probably a false idea that you have, but the depression takes over not only moods but the thinking apparatus.

Good news is that drugs can break the cycle, so when you go to your psychiatrist, get some and take them.  It might take a while, and you might have to try different ones to get the right combination.  Antidepressants can take weeks to kick in.  I'm a big fan of rapid tranq myself, but it isn't done much these days.

Drugs won't fix you by themselves, though.  There's more to the brain than a bag of chemicals.  When you start coming out of the cycle of depression, come back and talk.

Cite, you may or may not know that about two weeks ago a friend and co-worker of mine ended his life with little warning to everyone here.  He left a note detailing his decision and how alone he felt.  250 people came to his funeral, and dozens of people got up to talk about how he had touched their lives.  You may not know how much you matter to some people.
Talking to us about this is the right thing to do.  Knowing that you're not alone in this harsh world may be all you need to start coming over the top of the hill you've been climbing.  I hope you can find the drive to continue my friend.

Quote from: "DropLogic"Cite, you may or may not know that about two weeks ago a friend and co-worker of mine ended his life with little warning to everyone here.  He left a note detailing his decision and how alone he felt.  250 people came to his funeral, and dozens of people got up to talk about how he had touched their lives.  You may not know how much you matter to some people.
Talking to us about this is the right thing to do.  Knowing that you're not alone in this harsh world may be all you need to start coming over the top of the hill you've been climbing.  I hope you can find the drive to continue my friend.

A damned good post, imo.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"

Quote from: "DropLogic"Cite, you may or may not know that about two weeks ago a friend and co-worker of mine ended his life with little warning to everyone here.  He left a note detailing his decision and how alone he felt.  250 people came to his funeral, and dozens of people got up to talk about how he had touched their lives.  You may not know how much you matter to some people.
Talking to us about this is the right thing to do.  Knowing that you're not alone in this harsh world may be all you need to start coming over the top of the hill you've been climbing.  I hope you can find the drive to continue my friend.

A damned good post, imo.

Yes it was    (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fattachments.emergencyoffice.com.au%2Fproducts%2Fimages_small%2F7027.png&hash=dd575f7747b84b7a6097781fc0a6e05658f985b5)

*bump*
Cite, please let us know how you're doing from time to time.

Anyone heard from Cite recently?  

Quote from: "DropLogic"Anyone heard from Cite recently?  

Oh stop that weepyness.

QuoteLast visited:
    Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:34 pm

That's maybe 13 hours ago.
If you continue to sound so sad I'll have to get one of those awful dancing bananas over here.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"

Quote from: "DropLogic"Anyone heard from Cite recently?  :bananacolor:  :bananacolor:

ahahaa. Yeah I'm still here Drop. I greatly appreciate your concern.  

Quote from: "DropLogic"Cite, you may or may not know that about two weeks ago a friend and co-worker of mine ended his life with little warning to everyone here.  He left a note detailing his decision and how alone he felt.  250 people came to his funeral, and dozens of people got up to talk about how he had touched their lives.  You may not know how much you matter to some people.

...So you are saying that one can not be lonely if one matters to others and knows it? If you are, I disagree.

QuoteTalking to us about this is the right thing to do.  Knowing that you're not alone in this harsh world may be all you need to start coming over the top of the hill you've been climbing.  I hope you can find the drive to continue my friend.

I agree with the sentiment, but talking only gets you so far... When it gets you anywhere at all.

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "DropLogic"Cite, you may or may not know that about two weeks ago a friend and co-worker of mine ended his life with little warning to everyone here.  He left a note detailing his decision and how alone he felt.  250 people came to his funeral, and dozens of people got up to talk about how he had touched their lives.  You may not know how much you matter to some people.

...So you are saying that one can not be lonely if one matters to others and knows it? If you are, I disagree.

That's not how I meant it to come across.  Suicide is the most ultimate act of selfishness, and while you are free to do what you will to yourself, helping someone to realize the ripple effect of their actions might give them enough pause to save their life.

Quote from: "DropLogic"That's not how I meant it to come across.  Suicide is the most ultimate act of selfishness, and while you are free to do what you will to yourself, helping someone to realize the ripple effect of their actions might give them enough pause to save their life.

Suicides are also often enough not about wanting to die, but about not wanting to live. Those are very different things, even if they do sound like two sides of exactly the same coin. If I, for instance, didn't like the ripple effect my life was causing, your way of helping might just have spurred me on.

Again, as a disclaimer, I think you mean well, but every situation is different and without having analysed the reasons better than one can in a few pages of internet forums, giving non-selfish* advice might hurt as much (or more) as it might help.

*Meaning advice that concerns those in the person's-in-question inner circles, not advice uncentered on what you would have done in a similar situation. Poor phrasing. Couldn't conjure a better sentence  

Quote from: "Asmodean"

Quote from: "DropLogic"That's not how I meant it to come across.  Suicide is the most ultimate act of selfishness, and while you are free to do what you will to yourself, helping someone to realize the ripple effect of their actions might give them enough pause to save their life.

Suicides are also often enough not about wanting to die, but about not wanting to live. Those are very different things, even if they do sound like two sides of exactly the same coin. If I, for instance, didn't like the ripple effect my life was causing, your way of helping might just have spurred me on.

Again, as a disclaimer, I think you mean well, but every situation is different and without having analysed the reasons better than one can in a few pages of internet forums, giving non-selfish* advice might hurt as much (or more) as it might help.

*Meaning advice that concerns those in the person's-in-question inner circles, not advice uncentered on what you would have done in a similar situation. Poor phrasing. Couldn't conjure a better sentence  

Well, I think anyone can see that I am trying to help, and I don't agree with your logic that saying nothing at all is better.  The fact that he is sharing all of this with us tells me that he needs to let it out to someone.

Quote from: "DropLogic"Well, I think anyone can see that I am trying to help, and I don't agree with your logic that saying nothing at all is better.  The fact that he is sharing all of this with us tells me that he needs to let it out to someone.

I agree.

There are two incidents in my life where I didn't give advice, and the guys killed themselves.

I've given a hell of a lot of advice, and so far, there have been zero cases where they killed themselves.

I think the "don't give advice" line is self-serving bullshit.  It's totally a way to feel all smug and moral about not making an effort to help your fellow human.

Hier stehe ich, ich kann nicht Anders.

Quote from: "DropLogic"I don't agree with your logic that saying nothing at all is better.

Did I say that..?  :raised: Have you ever considered the possibility that some of those apparently numerous people did not commit suicide in spite of your advice and not because of it? Or for reasons totally unrelated, like not necessarilly being suicidal?

Quote from: "epepke"I've given a hell of a lot of advice, and so far, there have been zero cases where they killed themselves.

Quote from: "Asmodean"Oh look! We have an expert!   Have you ever considered the possibility that some of those apparently numerous people did not commit suicide in spite of your advice and not because of it? Or for reasons totally unrelated, like not necessarilly being suicidal?

Yeah epepke, i'll agree with asmo on this one.  Your argument is a post hoc fallacy.

Cite did invite talk, and he seems to welcome it.
It may be flawed but is meant well, perhaps he appreciates this.

Quote from: "Asmodean"Oh look! We have an expert!   Have you ever considered the possibility that some of those apparently numerous people did not commit suicide in spite of your advice and not because of it? Or for reasons totally unrelated, like not necessarilly being suicidal?

Have you considered learning how to speak your own fucking language?

The point that I was making is that there is no reason to believe that I have ever killed anybody by giving advice, so I say what I feel.  I do not know that it helps anybody, but it does not seem to have hurt anybody.

But I'm sure it's much more fun to misconstrue what I said.  Sound like you're the expert, Lord King Bufu.

Quote from: "DropLogic"Your argument is a post hoc fallacy.

This is correct.

Thank you all for replying. It's difficult to express my gratitude.

I guess it's really hard for me to communicate with the right people, because I feel like I cannot spill my 'guts' to the people I know the way I just did on this forum. I am working through it, though.

I've stayed off this thread for fear its contents might be triggering, but I have to say, I've gotten to the point that it is not triggering at all.

This is a good group of people and they've lent me their ears and sympathies on a number of occasions.  I suffer from chronic pain and frustrating health issues along with a brutal and complicated past, all of which have brought me to the brink a time or two.  But I've always come out the other side of the depression eventually.  Some days my muscles feel like sacks of broken glass, crawling and prickling under my skin and my anxiety level goes through the roof.  Some days, something will set off a cascade of traumatic memories and I'll be pinned by my own recollections of violence.  But some days it isn't so bad.  Some days I enjoy myself so much I don't think about the pain or the past and I don't feel more than a bit anxious.  

It has helped me immensely to become more conscious of my own pleasure and desires.  Living in the moment and recognizing the joy that can be had in living has kept me alive.  Find what gives you pleasure and pursue it.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"It has helped me immensely to become more conscious of my own pleasure and desires.  Living in the moment and recognizing the joy that can be had in living has kept me alive.  Find what gives you pleasure and pursue it.

This is the only reason why I am alive at the moment. I would be lying to say that I could relate to your sufferings in life.
 I guess it's fair to say that I am in this "browsing" period. Trying to find meaning in a pool of meaningless. At times, I wish I was just completly oblivious to things where I can just live.

Life for me is like a ride on a bunch of hills, where I am at the top, and drive inevitably at the bottom. Yet, it takes more energy to reach the crest of these hills, whereas it takes less energy to reach the troughs. I start getting suicidal when I question whether it's worth it or not to put so much energy just to experience short-lived joy just to reach the bottom once again.

 On top of all of this, I am aware that there is a cliff at the end where my car will crash into a bed of sharp rocks, terminating the whole ride.  

I have been depressed and through some rough stuff myself. I fixed it by abandoning the social construct. Without it, for me at least, depression and trauma became impossible. It no longer had meaning. And good riddance to it.

Quote from: "epepke"Have you considered learning how to speak your own fucking language?

Which one is that..?

QuoteThe point that I was making is that there is no reason to believe that I have ever killed anybody by giving advice, so I say what I feel.  I do not know that it helps anybody, but it does not seem to have hurt anybody.

Wasn't what you said. You are not the Bible. I take your words for what they are, not for what you would like them to be.

QuoteBut I'm sure it's much more fun to misconstrue what I said.

Yes. It is. Only... I didn't

QuoteSound like you're the expert, Lord King Bufu.

Actually, I am. Not a medical professional, mind you, but I do know my way around a suicide.

Now if you would like to fight me over linguistics, I will gladly indulge you.

Quote from: "Cite134"

QuoteDo rethink your position that suicide is the only solution to your problem. You might come to find that you develop a desire to live (as I’ve found, once I rethought the subject myself.)

QuoteI apprecaite your input, but I believe the fundamental problem is finding a meaning in the first place. Traditional meanings such as: family, goals, or relationships are generally valued, but I always find futility in such things. So, If I do fail to   develop a meaning, then suicide will be the only remedy.

R




Living is a choice, as is suicide. Life itself has no meaning, it is 100% YOUR responsibility to create your own happiness. There are no magic answers, some of us are literally evolved more thoroughly and therefore more capable of excelling at life in different aspects. I lost a child to SIDS for no reason, other than nature. She had not fully developed correctly in the womb, it was no ones fault, its evoltuion at work. Suicide is a selfish and ungrateful act. You got to live, so many don't. I'm assuming you were born a white male in america, you can't get a better start than that! Use it, there are mental health services to provide therapy and medicine. If drinking is a problem please realizee that its merely a crutch and do not fall into the religious cult that is AA. This is the only life you get, its such abeautiful accident, no more pity party, there is too much to celebrate. Evaluate your life, what do you love? Want? Dream about? Nothing is impossible.

[/quote]
R
Living is a choice, as is suicide. Life itself has no meaning, it is 100% YOUR responsibility to create your own happiness. There are no magic answers, some of us are literally evolved more thoroughly and therefore more capable of excelling at life in different aspects. I lost a child to SIDS for no reason, other than nature. She had not fully developed correctly in the womb, it was no ones fault, its evoltuion at work. Suicide is a selfish and ungrateful act. You got to live, so many don't. I'm assuming you were born a white male in america, you can't get a better start than that! Use it, there are mental health services to provide therapy and medicine. If drinking is a problem please realizee that its merely a crutch and do not fall into the religious cult that is AA. This is the only life you get, its such abeautiful accident, no more pity party, there is too much to celebrate. Evaluate your life, what do you love? Want? Dream about? Nothing is impossible.[/quote]


Well, for starters: I am sorry for your lost.

1. I concede that you have to develop your own meaing. That's part of the problem.

2. I do not agree with this vague obligation of "you got to live". No I do not. It's my choice, and I don't like it when people tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my own life.

3. I was born in America, but I am not white. So unfortunaltely, I can't simply "use it".

4. The advice you are giving is the same stuff that I've heard over and over. I suppose I appreciate your concern, but on another note, I wonder why you assumed I was white?

Because only white people have the luxury to consider suicide.  I thought that was common knowledge.

I thought you were white because of suicide statistics. Profiling. That's it. I'm sorry you can't make meaning in your life, best of luck.

Quote from: "BetterToReignInHell"[...]there are mental health services to provide therapy and medicine.

Only if you can afford them.  Nearly all mental health services for poor people are religiously based.  In going to a free or low cost mental health clinic one runs the risk of getting told to "pray and feel Jesus with you" while having a panic attack.

Quote from: "BetterToReignInHell"Suicide is a selfish and ungrateful act. You got to live, so many don't.

Cite is suffering from depression.  It is an illness.  If he had diabetes would you call him selfish for having symptoms?  

Many religious people don't believe mental illness is real, they think it is possession by demons or poor willpower or lack of a good relationship with Jesus.  If you are an atheist, what is your reasoning for thinking that mental illness isn't real?

The human mind isn't some mystical, invulnerable soul, it is the result of what happens in the brain.  I assume you know body parts can be harmed and not function as they are supposed to.  You probably also know that people can be born with body parts that don't function properly.  The brain is part of the body.  Think about it.  Before you judge someone for being sick, simply because there's no bleeding wound you can see, think about the brain's function.  Think about what would happen to you if you suffered a head injury.  You might suffer brain damage.  In that case, would you be responsible for the abnormal functioning of your brain as caused by brain damage?

Quote from: "BetterToReignInHell"I thought you were white because of suicide statistics. Profiling. That's it. I'm sorry you can't make meaning in your life, best of luck.

Statistics are useful, but it is best to not assume anything.  

Hmm, this is a difficult topic to post on. I am certainly not qualified to help you.
I have never been suicidal so cannot understand what you are going through.
I have never been addicted to anything nor have I been seriously depressed.

I don't think there is a simple solution to your problem. I certainly don't think suicide is the answer.
Obviously the alcohol must go. An AA group could provide you with support there.
With regards to relationships, I don't believe you should base your existence on having a GF. You really need to find value in yourself and having a GF is not really the answer. I would think it would be hard to get a GF if you don't feel positive about yourself. If your GF dumped you and you were deeply in love then that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. If you are lonely then there are internet interest forums, dating forums etc, clubs in the real world. Activities you can do. Maybe volunteer work, if you are an able bodied person, at least you could help others but this might be risky for someone that is depressed. I don't really know.

I was slightly depressed once. It lasted for 4 years. For most of it I didn't even realise I was depressed. But one day I came to a realisation and discovered the cause for my depression. Basically I had been in denial that where I was and where I wanted to be were two completely different places. Once I realised then that very day I felt like an enormous weight went off my shoulders. It was an incredibly odd feeling and very noticable. After that my depression went away.

Anyway, I am not suggesting that is how it will happen for you. Your case is much more serious and complex than mine was. All I can say is that life holds many surprises. You might feel down and stagnant for years, but there is always the potential that things will change. There is no real reason why you can't be happy 5-10 years from now, or even tomorrow. I am sure you don't feel that this is the case. But shit happens mate. Hang in there. I hope everything works out for you eventually.

Quote from: "BetterToReignInHell"Living is a choice, as is suicide.

Since life is forced on you in the beginning, IS living really a choice..? I mean, past a certain point, sure, but overall...

Additionally, the hospital staff will do their best to revive you after a suicide attempt. They are required to do so by law, in my country at least. Euthanasea is illegal too... So on a social scale, it's not really a choice either, now is it? I think it SHOULD be, but, unfortunately, it's not.

QuoteLife itself has no meaning, it is 100% YOUR responsibility to create your own happiness.

Yes and no. It's complicated. For instance, your surroundings, which you can not always choose, can contribute massively to your happiness or lack thereof.

QuoteSuicide is a selfish and ungrateful act. You got to live, so many don't.

What exactly should someone contemplating suicide be grateful for..? Life (s)he probably resents? What does it matter if I got to live while gazillions of others did not? Maybe it makes me special, doesn't mean I have to want to act on it though.

QuoteThis is the only life you get, its such abeautiful accident

Not for everyone. For some, it's more of a terrible accident

Quoteno more pity party, there is too much to celebrate

Like what..? Imagine you were on the brink of suicide. What would be the first thing you'd celebrate?

QuoteEvaluate your life, what do you love? Want? Dream about? Nothing is impossible.

When achieving something requires more effort than you are capable of producing, it doesn't really matter, now does it..? Chasing something you realize you can not have is not exactly a recipie for happiness for most people, now is it..?

By the same, living for love is good and well, unless life has given you more shit than you can carry on the momentum of love alone. (Or the combined momentum of love, ambitions, dreams and that instinct of self-preservation)

Asmodean, have you ever considered working for a helpline? There would be far less suicidal people in the world with your support. LOL

Stop being a victim and feeling sorry for yourself. Life is what you make of it, you are in the driver's seat. Don't be too proud to reach out for help when you need it. There are many people out there that want to help you. Life has its ups and downs.

Quote from: "Stevil"Asmodean, have you ever considered working for a helpline? There would be far less suicidal people in the world with your support. LOL

No... I did, however, consider couples therapy... And LOOK at the divorce rates!  :P (Actually, I'm not victimizing nor pitying myself. My capacity for pity, if you know me at all, is somewhat... reduced. And victimization... Well, I consider it a tad too close to labeling oneself a loser, which I most certainly am not. Just lousy at life, you know... Among other things)

QuoteLife is what you make of it, you are in the driver's seat.

Yup. and sometimes them trucks coming at me look very tempting... I love word play!  :P

The second part was not directed at you necessarily but if it applies to you then yes.

I am not a therapist so really don't know what is the right thing to say to people that are feeling depressed and/or suicidal. When I said "many people" I wasn't implying that you had many close family and friends, of course they would likely be the best kind of help but there are an aweful lot of lonely people out there. In my country there are free helplines, of course these people probably get paid by government or someone, but they are experienced in helping people with these types of issues. I don't think they can count as friends but maybe they can help you understand why you are feeling the way you are, maybe they can help you make steps towards a brighter future. You potentially could have many years of life in front of you. If it takes a few of those to sort yourself out then you will still have many years to enjoy after that. Nothing is impossible (within reason), your future might surprise you.

Quote from: "Stevil"Nothing is impossible (within reason), your future might surprise you.

Some people only go by what is sure. When I've lived a life that's full of pain and misery, thinking about suffering more, just for the slim possibility that something might make all the suffering I've already experienced worth it, is very unappealing. You might think that a life full of pain less a few years of happiness is worth it for the few years of happiness, I however think that a life full of pain is not worth the few years. I also find the statement to appear to assume that when one is considering suicide, that they hadn't considered the possibilities that lie in the future.

However I do know that I'm a little off kilter from the majority of the population in my lack of connection to my emotions. So this may work on more people, than I think. I only know a few people and myself that have either attempted, succeeded and/or seriously thought about suicide. So take my opinion on the matter with the understanding that my sample is very much subject to bias.

The idea that suicides ought to judged on a moral basis is silly when one considers the influence of mental illness on suicide rates.

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"The idea that suicides ought to judged on a moral basis is silly when one considers the influence of mental illness on suicide rates.

Exactly!  We don't judge people with cancer for developing symptoms so why do we judge people with mental illness when they have symptoms?  I still think it's a throwback to religious thinking that people consider the mind to be separate from the body rather than as a function of the brain.

Don't know why, but this thread makes me start whistling an old tune.

QuoteLife's a piece of shit
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.

Quote from: "Kylyssa"

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"The idea that suicides ought to judged on a moral basis is silly when one considers the influence of mental illness on suicide rates.

Exactly!  We don't judge people with cancer for developing symptoms so why do we judge people with mental illness when they have symptoms?  I still think it's a throwback to religious thinking that people consider the mind to be separate from the body rather than as a function of the brain.

I agree.  It took me a long time to come around to this view, too; but when you really look at it, our "modern" view of mental illness is not very different from the "demon possession" model posited a couple of thousand years ago.  We still demonize them, right?

It has been a while since I first posted this thread, and I just wanted to announce that I am coping and doing better. Death still looks very tasteful from time to time, but I think I am making 'progress'.
 It took weeks after fulling indulging in introspection and reflection to come to the conclusion that I need to fight my insecurities.
ON another note, again, I appreciate everyones' responses.

That's good news, Cite.

You do what you need to do, and know that you can come here when the shit gets thick.

Much love, brotha.

 

...AND you can try to out-whine yours truly is the shit gets REALLY thick.  :P

You?  Emo?  

Quote from: "Asmodean"I'm heavy, thorny and I tend to kick and bite.

Doesn't sound Emo, aren't they all under fed and defenceless?

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Doesn't sound Emo, aren't they all under fed and defenceless?

Heheh... I'm not THAT heavy... Just tall and have a bit of muscle mass.  :P Now I'm more of a sociopathic serial killer than emo, although I haven't killed anyone... Yet  :P )