Obama - 'I think same sex couples should be able to get married.'

[Sandra Craft]

Perhaps if a couple wanted the tax breaks they would need to file with the courts records, as is currently done with property. But why should the government have any say in who consenting adults marry?

So, actually, the more I think about it, tax breaks shouldn't even matter in this regard.

I don't think the government should have a say in who consenting adults marry, the connection I don't see is getting tax breaks via marriage enforcing government discrimination against same-sex and/or poly marriages.  If these marriage were legalized, they'd be getting the same tax breaks -- which is part of the benefit of legal marriages.

[Ali]

Contract law is capable of upholding a spouses right to visitation at a hospital, successions without a will, parental rights over children, distribution and sharing of property, etc. Even with the tax breaks, I'm not sure those couldn't be kept if the government stopped regulating marriage. The courts would simply need to recognize the voluntary contract between two or more consenting adults.

What I don't get is how you think that "contract law" is different from a civil marriage.  A civil marriage is a contract that already stipulates all of those things.  I agree that the government shouldn't discriminate between which consenting adults can enter into the contract, but I still don't get why it should be something separate from marriage.

[Firebird]

Couple of comments here. First off, don't listen to any Rasmussen polls. Rasmussen is notoriously biased to conservatives. The founder has even written a column for World Net Daily, which is one of those right-wing sites that kept insisting Obama was not born in the US.
Blog on Rasmussen polls
World Net Daily wikipedia page

Second, we're going down a rat-hole here by saying the government should not recognize marriage. This is not practical. How would you require that married couples be allowed hospitalization rights and the right to decide medical care for your spouse if the government doesn't recognize it? Or inheritance rights? Or that married adults who adopts children are both their legal guardians? Or visitation rights for divorced couples? Etc, etc. Contract law is not an acceptable substitute here.

Interesting little factoid: in Turkey, marriage is a purely civil institution. While you can have a religious ceremony as part of the marriage, the actual marriage itself must be done by a government official (clerk, etc) so as to prevent religious institutions from having a disproportionate influence over it. Don't know if that would ever happen here, but I kinda like that.

EDIT: fixed typo

[The Magic Pudding]

Yes yes same sex couples, I see it now.  People I like have told me I should excuse them their abnormality, excuse me I have to approve a few bombings, sign off on the further stationing of shackled troops in hostile lands.

That above wasn't altogether serious but when someone needs the basics of right and wrong explained to them...

Our female unmarried in a defacto relationship atheist prime minister is sticking by her rejection to gay marriage stance.  She isn't popular, many people don't believe her about anything.     The opposition guy is more popular even though he is an extreme creep.

[Amicale]

Yes yes same sex couples, I see it now.  People I like have told me I should excuse them their abnormality, excuse me I have to approve a few bombings, sign off on the further stationing of shackled troops in hostile lands.

That above wasn't altogether serious but when someone needs the basics of right and wrong explained to them...

Our female unmarried in a defacto relationship atheist prime minister is sticking by her rejection to gay marriage stance.  She isn't popular, many people don't believe her about anything.     The opposition guy is more popular even though he is an extreme creep.

I believe my 'translate cryptic text/sarcasm/irony meter' may be broken today.  That and I'm tired. So if I can ask you Pudding, are you saying you support gay marriage, or no? Wasn't sure how excusing our abnormality and approving a few bombings fit together. 

[The Magic Pudding]

I believe my 'translate cryptic text/sarcasm/irony meter' may be broken today.  That and I'm tired. So if I can ask you Pudding, are you saying you support gay marriage, or no? Wasn't sure how excusing our abnormality and approving a few bombings fit together. 

I'm OK with gay marriage.
I'm rabidly opposed to those who are opposed to it.
I don't dislike Obama.
So his public position was against gay marriage but this week it has turned around.
He talked to a few people recently and they convinced him he was mistaken, gay marriage is OK.

I think the satire was based in the idea of a guy that has to be told what's right yet controls wars.

[Sandra Craft]

I think the satire was based in the idea of a guy that has to be told what's right yet controls wars.

"What's right" is extremely subjective, what irks me is that, prior to becoming President, he voiced support for gay marriage and against the war.  I know we voters have no right to expect that the president we think we're voting for is the president we'll actually get, and changes of political position are often unavoidable, but I do find it insulting when they assume we have no memories.

[The Magic Pudding]

"What's right" is extremely subjective, what irks me is that, prior to becoming President, he voiced support for gay marriage and against the war.  I know we voters have no right to expect that the president we think we're voting for is the president we'll actually get, and changes of political position are often unavoidable, but I do find it insulting when they assume we have no memories.

it's late, sorry good night.

In an interview with ABC News' Robin Roberts, the president described his thought process as an "evolution" that led him to this decision, based on conversations with his staff members, openly gay and lesbian service members, and his wife and daughters.

I don't accept that these talks with other people changed Obama's view on the right/wrong of same sex marriage, perhaps they would have convinced him he should publicly support it.  I'd have trouble respecting a clever man of his age who had to be convinced same sex marriage was OK.  Perhaps with a complex issue new information becomes available, a new perspective may be attained through consultation, this is an admirable thing.  The politics of supporting this may be complex but the issue itself is very simple.  I wouldn't trust the moral values of a person who needed to consult others to conclude this oppression is wrong.

[ThinkAnarchy]

"What's right" is extremely subjective, what irks me is that, prior to becoming President, he voiced support for gay marriage and against the war.  I know we voters have no right to expect that the president we think we're voting for is the president we'll actually get, and changes of political position are often unavoidable, but I do find it insulting when they assume we have no memories.

It thought I expressed that in my satirical stuff.
Didn't you see it?

Many people thought "A Modest Proposal" was a serious proposal. We didn't get satire then, and we have a hard time getting it now.  

[Sandra Craft]

"What's right" is extremely subjective, what irks me is that, prior to becoming President, he voiced support for gay marriage and against the war.  I know we voters have no right to expect that the president we think we're voting for is the president we'll actually get, and changes of political position are often unavoidable, but I do find it insulting when they assume we have no memories.

It thought I expressed that in my satirical stuff.
Didn't you see it?

No, I was having the same problem Ami was and besides, I have a hard time understanding poetry even when my irony meter is working.

[Hector Valdez]

Pandering for votes? Bullshit. Obama would never have admitted this so early if Joe Biden hadn't forced his hand. Being pro gay may have less stigma, but it definitely will still hurt a candidate. Especially in the south.

[Tank]

Pandering for votes? Bullshit. Obama would never have admitted this so early if Joe Biden hadn't forced his hand. Being pro gay may have less stigma, but it definitely will still hurt a candidate. Especially in the south.

And who is going to vote for Obama in the South anyway?

[Hector Valdez]

Good point. I concede.

[Firebird]

Pandering for votes? Bullshit. Obama would never have admitted this so early if Joe Biden hadn't forced his hand. Being pro gay may have less stigma, but it definitely will still hurt a candidate. Especially in the south.

And who is going to vote for Obama in the South anyway?

It can still hurt him in a lot of the swing states in the midwest. 30 states have passed laws and/or amendments banning gay marriage, so it's not just the south. Overall, it's extremely risky and could hurt him in the end. I'm glad that he did it, but RenegeReversi is exactly right.

[Tank]

What I know about American politics comes from HAF so it's pretty limited.