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Tennessee - New bill - hurting an embryo = murder?

Started by Amicale, April 25, 2012, 07:50:24 PM

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Amicale

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/tennessee-miscarriage-about-to-be-murder-after-legislature-passes-bill/politics/2012/04/24/38401

QuoteThe Tennessee House last week voted 80-18 to make miscarriage — or the killing of any fertilized egg — murder. Last night, the Tennessee Senate passed by a 28-2 margin a companion version of the bill. The bill specifically includes all embryos "at any state of gestation in utero." Tennessee's Republican Governor Bill Haslam has not indicated if he will sign the bill.

To be clear, this bill goes further than covering, say, a violent attacker harming an expectant mother who then, unfortunately, miscarries. This bill, House Bill 3517 and the Senate's companion, makes anyone's actions that presumably cause a miscarriage murder. Opponents of the bill question how law enforcement would actually enforce this law or determine if someone's action was a direct cause of a miscarriage.

The rest is at the link.

It's also covered here: http://www.wbir.com/news/article/216957/2/TN-House-votes-to-allow-criminal-prosecution-for-harming-embryos-?odyssey=tab|topnews|bc|large  although there, the focus seems to be on extending a current bill that would charge someone with a crime for harming an embryo during the first 8 weeks the mother is pregnant.


What I HAVEN'T seen (yet) is the mainstream news going nuts over this. Has anyone here heard more about this, or have more information? What are your thoughts?

Personally, I think they'd have a damned hard time proving who hurt an embryo, and how it was hurt. Some women don't even know, in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy, that they are pregnant...

Beyond my thoughts at first glance though, I'm wondering if this is a legit, valid story or if it's been exaggerated or blown up. The friend who posted it on FB is about as far to the left as one can get, so.


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Dobermonster

If true . . . will women who have had miscarriages be subject to investigation? How about those who need to go on medication that may cause miscarriage, will they be subject to child endangerment charges? Tennessee gets less and less appealing the more I hear about it.

DeterminedJuliet

Jesus Christ that is insane.

We don't even fully understand what causes a miscarriage to begin with - how the hell are we supposed to know who's "responsible"? I see this as a way of prosecuting women for no good reason. I mean, what if a woman drinks a coffee and has a miscarriage? Can she be charged? (when I was pregnant, I once had a Starbucks barista publicly scold me for ordering a "non-decaf" latte, even though I had done my research and KNEW it was below the recommended 300 milligrams of caffeine for a where I was in my pregnancy).

If a woman trips and falls down and has a miscarriage, did that "cause" it? Are we really going to start going after women who are probably emotionally traumatized because they MIGHT be "responsible" for a biological occurrence in their body? Shit like this really makes me glad that I'm not going to have any more children.
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Asmodean

How about they let their asshole god punish the "guilty" himself in the afterlife, eh..?  >:(
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Amicale

Yeah... I'm still not sure what to make of this. It seems to me that they've changed the definition of fetus in that state to give it full personhood, but after reading the amendments to the bill, it SEEMS like it's saying that they aren't going after currently pregnant mothers or their doctors who are performing legitimate medical procedures.... so maybe it's to target someone who, say, attacks a woman and then causes the death of the fetus?  ???

I'm not good at all, at reading 'legalese'. Anyway, the (very short read) PDF link is here: http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Amend/SA1229.pdf

In case PDF links don't work for you, here's the relevant bit:

QuoteSECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-13-214, is amended by deleting subsection (a) in its entirety and substituting in its place the following: (a) For the purposes of this part, "another" and "another person" include a human embryo or fetus at any stage of gestation in utero, when any such term refers to the victim of any act made criminal by this part.

SECTION 2. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-13-214, is amended by deleting subsection (c) in its entirety and substituting in its place the following: (c) Nothing in subsection (a) shall apply to any act or omission by a pregnant woman with respect to an embryo or fetus with which she is pregnant, or to any lawful medical or surgical procedure to which a pregnant woman consents, performed by a health care professional who is licensed to perform such procedure.

Sections 3 and 4 are the same as 1 and 2, just modifying different old subsections of the bill.

So, SEEMS like they're using the terms "another" or "another person" to refer to embryos or fetuses at ANY stage of the pregnancy, but it also seems like they're saying that their new definition doesn't apply to any act a pregnant woman does, or to any lawful medical/surgical procedure. Hmm. If anyone reads anything differently into it, let me know, please.


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

DeterminedJuliet

Amicale, that seems to the case as far as I can read. So I guess they won't be going after women. Hmm.
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.