Anyone of you rational folks play the lottery?

[Whitney]

the powerball in texas is at a very high 60 million right now (almost half that after taxes though; but still...), high enough that a lot of my rational friends, including my husband and myself think that maybe buying a ticket or two wouldn't hurt.  http://www.txlottery.org/export/sites/lottery/index.html

[chris]

It is so difficult coming to grips with the numbers; far too much imagination required.  So, I tend to examine the chances of winning in a different manner;

I imagine a football stadium of gigantic proportions; maybe 100,000 seats.  Then I imagine  about 1700 of these stadiums clustered together, and throw a base ball into the midst, hoping to land in the correct stadium, and then the one seat that will be the winner in that single stadium.  Those were the odds of winning that mega jackpot.

One could spend many lifetimes throwing baseballs constantly, and almost never have a chance of hitting the right seat in the right stadium.

The lottery is a tax upon the poor, who can least afford it, but consider it their only possibiity of escaping poverty.  I've known very few wealthy people who would consider such a foolish enterprise.  It is government sponsored 3 card monte, sucking the marrow from the hopes and dreams as opposed to providing real opportunities to escape through education and good paying jobs.

Until the lotteries took over this nation, the Mob ran "Numbers" games, and were prosecuted to the hilt for stealing from the poor.  They paid 60 cents of every dollar back in winnings; a far greater percentage of return than the lottery structure, which pays back anywhere from 20-40% of revenue; since it is the government robbing the poor though, I guess it is ok.

[Whitney]

In oklahoma and texas the lottery sales income goes back into the school system...so while it may be a poor tax at least it goes towards something worthwhile.

[Amicale]

The legal sale of cigarettes is a tax upon the stressed out, who can least afford it, but consider it their only possibiity of escaping stress.  I've known very few healthy, relaxed people who would consider such a foolish enterprise.  It is government sponsored 3 card monte, sucking the marrow from the hopes and dreams as opposed to providing real opportunities to escape the stress through therapy and relaxing vacations.

When you replace the words, see where the problems might be?   That's kinda the way I see it, anyhow.

1. If someone wants to buy cigarettes, it's a commodity they want to possess. It's not something the government forces on them, even if they're addicted. There are methods of quitting. If someone chooses to buy a lottery ticket, it's a chance or dream they want to buy into, even if they know the odds are so highly against them that they'd be more likely to be hit by lightning several times before winning.

2. There are ways to combat stress other than smoking cigarettes. There are ways to combat poverty other than buying lottery tickets.

3. Healthy, relaxed people still smoke, even if it's just because it's popular. Wealthy people still buy lottery tickets, even if they have money. (Yes, I know of enough wealthy people who buy them. Not just the poor.)

4. The government doesn't give stressed out people vacations and free therapy. The government also doesn't hand out free education and good paying jobs. Those, you have to pay for and find yourself, generally... unless your uncle or dad is a politician or celebrity, in which case, you're in.  

I'm not trying to pick on YOU, personally.   I just think that if we believe the government's somehow forcing or brainwashing these poor people into buying lottery tickets, we start to look at lottery ticket buyers as victims of a corrupt system. I don't consider that to be the case. I see lottery ticket buyers as exercising their full consent to purchase a commodity that has a very, very slim chance of actually making their life better. Same goes with people who are stressed out, so they take up smoking because they "need" that fix -- they KNOW the cigarettes are crazily expensive, and they KNOW that smoking is only a bandaid solution to relieving stress and that it won't actually make their health better, but they choose to anyhow.

There are plenty of stressed out people who do not smoke, because they know it won't help them in the long run. There are plenty of poor people who do NOT play the lottery, because they know they'll never win it.

I did like your comparison to a football stadium, though. That's pretty accurate. The chances of EVER having the baseball hit that target is next to nil. It just makes me wonder when it comes to the lottery, why people who can't afford it and who KNOW they have a next to nil chance of winning it still purchase tickets... but when I think about it, they DON'T know they won't win it. Most have somehow convinced themselves that they WILL win it, that it's just a matter of time.

They believe they have some magical insight into picking the "right" numbers; I've seen some folks even protectively shield their lottery numbers so others won't choose the same numbers. They suspend disbelief, because they want that fix. When they don't win, it's because "luck" wasn't on their side this week. When they DO win $5, they say "see? I was right! I was lucky!" and they conveniently ignore the $25 they spent just to win that $5.

[Anne D.]

Lately we've been buying about two $1 lotto tickets a month, but sometimes we go several months w/o buying any. I've noticed I'm more tempted to buy a ticket when I'm really hating on my job--not at all rational. It's not like my odds are better those weeks. But I love spending the odd ten minutes thinking about what I'd do w/ the winnings--vastly entertaining. Like Scissorlegs, I have all sorts of grand plans for what I'd do with my dough.

Here in Texas, the money does go into the general fund to pay for education, but it's not like the money from the lotto is added to what was already allotted for education, it's just used to pay the amount already allotted. It's just a revenue stream that helps pay the amount that state law already requires be paid for public education. There's kind of a misconception that it's "extra" money for education, but sadly, no.

[chris]

In oklahoma and texas the lottery sales income goes back into the school system...so while it may be a poor tax at least it goes towards something worthwhile.

That is how it was sold across the country in every single state that has a lottery.  If one looks beyond the ads though, what one will find is a huge infrastructure created by a few very gigantic businesses that build the machines and provide the supplies; they advise the states on how to market the lottery programs.  The money sucked off the top is enormous and there could NOT be a less efficient method of funding public education by robbing the poor to give a pittance of resources to the school systems.  The states give to the schools across the country because market research has shown that people are more inclined to give their approval, or at the least, not express their disapproval, at being completely ripped off by administrative fees and contracts with these businesses.

If only the Mob had been that smart...

It is the antithesis of the progressive tax system that made this country great and demanded that all pay their fair share to the governance of the nation and the building of infrastructure to enable commerce.  I pity the generations that have followed me; witnessing a deterioration of every sort, without even being aware that we were once a nation of builders of public works to benefit everyone, whether rich or poor; that is the dream that has been lost in the process of the new American dream; everyone can be a millionaire if only they work hard enough or even better; are lucky enough, ergo, dog eat dog, and damn the fallen and destroyed in the wake of the new reality.

Ps.  You and hubby must see Leaves of Grass, my most recent fav. film; takes place in Oklahoma.  

[Asmodean]

Robbing the poor..?

Chris, you present this lottery thing as some sort of scam aimed at the bad-offs. Are lottery companies in States not required to put the chance of winning and the phone number of some hysterical gambling addiction help organisation in their printed material? Do they not pay the winnings to those who do win?

And why should deciding what to do with their own profits after taxes not be up to them?

[Sweetdeath]

Robbing the poor..?

Chris, you present this lottery thing as some sort of scam aimed at the bad-offs. Are lottery companies in States not required to put the chance of winning and the phone number of some hysterical gambling addiction help organisation in their printed material? Do they not pay the winnings to those who do win?

And why should deciding what to do with their own profits after taxes not be up to them?

Pretty much. If people want to waste their money in the very unlikely chance they will win abig payoff, let them.
I only have an issue when someone has a kid and is wasting their money on gambling rather than taking care of their child.

[ThinkAnarchy]

Robbing the poor..?

Chris, you present this lottery thing as some sort of scam aimed at the bad-offs. Are lottery companies in States not required to put the chance of winning and the phone number of some hysterical gambling addiction help organisation in their printed material? Do they not pay the winnings to those who do win?

And why should deciding what to do with their own profits after taxes not be up to them?

There are no lottery companies, per se, they are all run entirely, maybe only mostly, by the state. Poor people are the ones who regularly play the lottery despite having better odds playing roulette. I would have to agree it is a scam targeted at the poorest individuals in a nation. It's especially bad in areas that have made other forms of gambling illegal, giving people only one option if that is something they enjoy, and only games with worse odds than the shadiest casino.

Edit: I'm not saying there aren't possibly third parties getting rich as well. But when the state only sanctions one form of gambling, and that form has the worst odds of any other game, solely because they get the bulk of the profits, I have to conclude it's a scam.

Added link after post: This article claims the average family that earns less than $13,000 a year, spend an average of 9% of their income on lotto tickets.

http://www.businessinsider.com/households-earning-less-than-13000-a-year-spend-9-of-their-income-on-lottery-tickets-2012-3

[Sweetdeath]

I never understood why gambling would be illegal, but the lottery isn't. Even though it is the same as gambling.

[chris]

I never understood why gambling would be illegal, but the lottery isn't. Even though it is the same as gambling.

Actually, the lottery had been illegal for many years, until the dam was broken by New Hampshire in 1964.  Over the next several years, a few states followed suit  Eventually, there was enough momentum to exert pressure on almost almost all but the most stalwart of Southern states, as states became fearful of money traveling to neighboring states, and the scam was complete.

Prior to the lottery, Organized Crime ran the "numbers racket" in every significant city in the nation.  Basically, the numbers were not drawn, but tied to daily horse races; the first three races at a certain track, so that everyone could see the actual results in The Racing Form, published daily.  Only the 1-9 horses were used for the "draw", so that there were 999 possiblities, and the winning number paid 60% of the bet; far better than any lottery.  As with the lottery, they were marketed to the poor, but the payoff was much better.  Also, the price of the product varied depending on the market.  Some people might only bet a nickel; others a buck.  Numbers runners were everywhere, making house calls on their regulars to get the daily bets and to pay the winners.  The runners all reported up the food chain to the local mob bosses, and had their protection.  The 40% was used for profits and paying the police and judges to look the other way, as small-time corruption flourished everywhere; not like our new sophisticated era, when corruption is done on a grand scale, mostly by investment bankers and the politicians they hold on the collective leash.

It is so much more civilized to have the state controlling the corruption, rather than some sleazy mob guys, even though the state charges a premium price for their service, and instead of one product, attacks... excuse me...markets  numerous products to fleece the poor of every dime possible; be it numerous games, multiple daily lotteries, etc.

[Asmodean]

As long as they deliver what is promised, I'm good with most forms of gambling.

[ThinkAnarchy]

As long as they deliver what is promised, I'm good with most forms of gambling.

Well kind of. They still tax the winnings if you do happen to win. They make a profit with the sale of the tickets and than make more money by taxing the winnings. Granted anyone who wins 600 million dollars probably won't be too upset by only taking home 300 million.  

[Ali]

Amicale, that is very sad.  I can understand why it would really sour you on the concept of the lottery.

Hubby and I play the lottery every once and a while.  It costs a $ and you get to spend the next couple of days imagining all of the things you would spend when you're filthy rich.  I see it as a fun little bit of hope and entertainment, even knowing that I'm most likely never going to win.  I figure it's foolish to fantasize about winning the lottery if you never actually play the lottery, so $1 every couple of months is a cheap form of entertainment that lets the fantasy feel as though there is some chance (however infinitesimal) of coming true.  LOL  Not super rational, but also not expensive.

But yes, once people get to the point where they are spending a substantial amount of money and especially money they don't have, it's a problem.

[Amicale]

Amicale, that is very sad.  I can understand why it would really sour you on the concept of the lottery.

Hubby and I play the lottery every once and a while.  It costs a $ and you get to spend the next couple of days imagining all of the things you would spend when you're filthy rich.  I see it as a fun little bit of hope and entertainment, even knowing that I'm most likely never going to win.  I figure it's foolish to fantasize about winning the lottery if you never actually play the lottery, so $1 every couple of months is a cheap form of entertainment that lets the fantasy feel as though there is some chance (however infinitesimal) of coming true.  LOL  Not super rational, but also not expensive.

But yes, once people get to the point where they are spending a substantial amount of money and especially money they don't have, it's a problem.

In all fairness, while I was working retail and selling lottery, we had one couple buy a ticket from us that wound up winning them a million dollars. They were really happy, and we felt happy for them. They came in, gave the girl they bought the ticket from some money just because, gave the store some as well (although on this point, they may have been obligated to, dunno) and bought coffees for everyone in the store. It was a really nice day for them.

Over the next year, they threw their son an expensive wedding, went on 2 or 3 crazy vacations to exotic places, gave some to charity, bought a boat and a new car, and bought a ton more lottery tickets. By the end of that year, the money was entirely gone, but as the wife told me, it was the most fun she'd had in a long time. 

So I suppose the odd person does win. After that happened though, every customer coming through who heard of it constantly made comments about how lightning doesn't strike the same place twice, so all the 'luck' in the place got used up.