Arian's "Atheism" | Split From "My Lord, I'm an Atheist"

[arian (Banned)]

Yes, Tillich was a Christian, but not understood by Christians because his philosophy did not coincide with todays version Christianity, especially their version of 'GOD'.

So, you are the first person in history who understands Tillich? All those Christians who think they understand him are mistaken, because you say so?

Oh no my friend, I am way too uneducated to understand Tilliches complete philosophy. I am more of a fisherman with a total of about 4 years of schooling. I speak 3 languages, almost forgot the first two, and English I have not yet grasped, I need my spelling chekerer which I can't find here.

If I say I do not believe in the Trinity Gods, I too am labeled as a 'heretic'.

There are certain varieties of Christian who relish the chance to throw around the word "heretic." Still, you aren't the only Christian who believes in the "Bible-God" but does not believe in the Trinitarian version, and just because some self-righteous Christians label you as a heretic, does not mean that you aren't a Christian. You do sincerely believe that Jesus is God, right?

Of course not. Jesus is the Son of God, who repeatedly claimed His Father was greater than he. And those 'Christian religions' that don't believe in the trinity, made up their own versions of god, like Jehovah, the Sabbath, Allah, Joseph Smith and on and on.

The 'meaning' Christ-like was changed into a name 'Christian' as defined by Constantine, which in its reality opposed those few that served and walked according to Jesus teachings. "You cannot serve two masters, ... you will cling to the one and despise the other" and Constantine is well documented in trying to serve both, the gods found in the term theism, and Christianity's One True God "I Am".

Interesting version of history. Would you mind:

1. Citing a source for the supposed original meaning of "Christian." (It's just that when the word "Χριστιανός" is used in the Bible, it seems to be pretty clear that it's intended to mean "follower of Christ," or "one who belongs/adheres to Christ.")

I'll just site what you just said, 'followers of Christ, or Christ-like'. The word Christian became a name associated with all the theistic gods. The Gentile church fell back to their old pagan-gods worship and simply absorbed and reinterpreted the One True God "I Am that I Am" (not a name) into their temples.

2. Clarifying who are "those few that served and walked according to Jesus teachings" during the time of Constantine, who were opposed by Constantine?

Those that remained 'followers of Christ, or Christ-like' and refused Constantines definition of 'Christian'. The 'sword' that Jesus gave us is the 'Word of God', not some physical butchering knife.

Seeing as Constantine didn't bother to actually get baptized until he was dying, I think that one might legitimately question whether he was serving anything or anyone but his self-interest at any time in his life. That would be pure speculation though, just as your version of Constantine's inner life is.

We are to walk by faith, ... but our actions reveal that 'faith'. Jesus taught us to 'turn the other cheek, and not to 'chop the heads off those that merely threaten us.

Sorry if my posts sound like preaching, rather than simply debating and hopefully 'teaching'. I have learned a great deal from 'atheists', they seem to have more of an open mind to new ideas, ... well not all of them of course, just as not ALL Christians have a closed mind either.

Oh, ... and I agree that defining 'atheism' does belong on the 'Religion' section,

thank you.

Theism/atheism are two sides of the same coin. One cannot be a religion without the other.

Teaching involves (among other things) conveying information and providing resources for learning. So far you have been putting forward your opinion and asserting various things while providing zilch in the way of resources (citations from reputable sources) to support your assertions. We've learned about your opinions, and your fatuous definition of atheism (which seems to consist of "arian's brand of Christianity"), but beyond that, we might as well have been watching "American Idol," for all we've learned that has any value.

How well do you know the Bible? I can back everything I tell you from the Bible, the evidence of Gods awesome wisdom and ability to create through science, the people we observe around us and where we as man-kind are heading in this world.

You may present any and all resources at your disposal to refute what I say. Fair enough? If at any time you can find anything I say that contradicts the Bible, than what I say is not in accordance with the Word of God, and you may label me a 'liar'.

(Edited to fix quote. -- Recusant)

[arian (Banned)]

I still don't understand what makes your version of god (GOD) different from everyone else's.  But I do like the idea of loving others as a form of worship, if I were to worship (which I don't.)  Sounds peaceful.

So you don't love others (type of worship)? I doubt that.

Version of God;

Well, just think about it, if someone goes around and gives you a bad name, people, your family, friends will all start to see you differently, right? Before you know it, some might even start hating you, or calling you , ... oh let's say a 'pervert', (depends what your back-stabber been saying about you) Now you move, and on your return after some time, you have a completely perverted view in peoples eyes.

This is somewhat what has happened a few years after Jesus left the earth. People associate the name 'Christian' with those proclaiming to be one and are not very Christ-like, like Constantine and his horde of murderers. Look at Christian hystory throughout the ages (after Christs assention) and who could blame people hating that precious name?

I am here to reasteblish, ... reestablish, .. (I need that spelling checkerer) that sweet name Jesus, and that righteous walk "Christ-like'.

I am a sinner who needs the blood of Christ to be clensed. If I said I do not sin, .. I would be a liar. So if you see me fall, help me up, if you see me sin, tell me so I can wash myself clean again. I'll lovingly try to do the same to everyone else here.

[Ali]

No, I do love others, I just don't consider it to be a form of worship because I don't believe there is anyone there to worship.

Not to keep on about it, but your version of God still sounds like a god. 

[Davin]

Replied to here instead of the person's intro thread because I made the mistake of making an off topic reply in that thread in the first place.

It's rather simple:
If you believe in a god (any god, the ONE true I IS god or even Bob), then you're a theist. If you don't, then you're an atheist.

Can you define "I Am"?

Why do I need to? What purpose would this serve?

Going back to the Garden of Eden, the first man Adam. Now he knew GOD. We must define GOD as Adam knew God.

Jesus came and 'defined' GOD to us;

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
NKJV

1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
NKJV

Biblical citations have nothing at all to do with atheism and only have something to do with some types of theism.

Unless we change the definition of 'theism' to "The belief in God" period, then God would remain the One true God in everyones minds.

Sorry, I'll try again: theism is the belief in a god or gods (any god or gods up to and including whichever one you believe in whether they were in the bible, Egyptian, Norse, Greek, made up after the bible or any other kind of god or gods), atheism is the lack of that.

[Recusant]

First a little technical help:

I did not get an e-mail notice that someone answered my post or not. How do I set the notice?

To receive e-mail notification of replies to threads you've posted in, you will need to open your profile (see "Profile" in the menu bar below the banner at the top of the page). In your profile, look at "Modify Profile" on the left side of the page, and click "Notifications and Email." Tick the box for "Turn notification on when you post or reply to a topic," then click "Save Settings."

* * *

So, you are the first person in history who understands Tillich? All those Christians who think they understand him are mistaken, because you say so?

Oh no my friend, I am way too uneducated to understand Tilliches complete philosophy. I am more of a fisherman with a total of about 4 years of schooling. I speak 3 languages, almost forgot the first two, and English I have not yet grasped, I need my spelling chekerer which I can't find here.

So you say you don't understand Tillich's "complete philosophy," yet you feel qualified to tell us that other Christians don't understand him? That's funny stuff right there. If I want to learn about his philosophy or his theological musings, I'll read them for myself. I certainly don't have any use for your mangled version, and I see no reason to trust anything you say on the subject.

You do sincerely believe that Jesus is God, right?

Of course not. Jesus is the Son of God, who repeatedly claimed His Father was greater than he. And those 'Christian religions' that don't believe in the trinity, made up their own versions of god, like Jehovah, the Sabbath, Allah, Joseph Smith and on and on.

So Islam is a version of Christianity now?

We'll ignore the Biblical basis for the common Christian understanding that Jesus is the Christian god for the moment. Please explain what you think Jesus was. A prophet, maybe?

Interesting version of history. Would you mind:

1. Citing a source for the supposed original meaning of "Christian." (It's just that when the word "Χριστιανός" is used in the Bible, it seems to be pretty clear that it's intended to mean "follower of Christ," or "one who belongs/adheres to Christ.")

I'll just site what you just said, 'followers of Christ, or Christ-like'. The word Christian became a name associated with all the theistic gods. The Gentile church fell back to their old pagan-gods worship and simply absorbed and reinterpreted the One True God "I Am that I Am" (not a name) into their temples.

No, you're not citing what I said. You've added your version of the translation of the Greek word "Χριστιανός," which is not what I wrote. Please cite a reputable authority (i.e. an expert in the Greek language of the Bible, or a standard concordance; not some evangelist who's willing to play fast and loose with the truth) which says that the translation of "Χριστιανός" is "Christ-like." That is what I asked you to do in the first place. It should be an easy thing to do, if your translation is correct. While you're at it, you might give a historic basis for your assertions regarding the theology of "the Gentile church."

2. Clarifying who are "those few that served and walked according to Jesus teachings" during the time of Constantine, who were opposed by Constantine?

Those that remained 'followers of Christ, or Christ-like' and refused Constantines definition of 'Christian'. The 'sword' that Jesus gave us is the 'Word of God', not some physical butchering knife.

What was Constantine's definition of "Christian"? (Again, I ask that you support this with a reputable source; I really am not interested in your personal version of history.) Who were those that remained 'followers of Christ, or Christ-like,' and where are they mentioned in history? You of course are aware that Constantine reconciled with the Arians and was baptized by an Arian bishop.

Seeing as Constantine didn't bother to actually get baptized until he was dying, I think that one might legitimately question whether he was serving anything or anyone but his self-interest at any time in his life. That would be pure speculation though, just as your version of Constantine's inner life is.

We are to walk by faith, ... but our actions reveal that 'faith'. Jesus taught us to 'turn the other cheek, and not to 'chop the heads off those that merely threaten us.

Non sequitur. Your version of the meaning of Matthew 10:34-39 is dubious, and as I pointed out, you can not tell us what was in Constantine's heart, nor what his faith was or wasn't, whatever his actions were.

Theism/atheism are two sides of the same coin. One cannot be a religion without the other.

That's unadulterated hogwash. You remind me of other Christians who've trotted through here spouting their personal re-definitions of commonly understood terms and acting as if they're bestowing some profound wisdom on the benighted unbelievers. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

How well do you know the Bible? I can back everything I tell you from the Bible, the evidence of Gods awesome wisdom and ability to create through science, the people we observe around us and where we as man-kind are heading in this world.

Says the "atheist."  

You may present any and all resources at your disposal to refute what I say. Fair enough? If at any time you can find anything I say that contradicts the Bible, than what I say is not in accordance with the Word of God, and you may label me a 'liar'.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that a believer in the Bible-God is an atheist. While that isn't a contradiction of the Bible per se, but it doesn't appear to be based on anything in the Bible, either.  

In my opinion, you haven't done anything since you joined this site but preach, and I had my fill of that decades ago. I've read the Bible in its entirety a couple of times, and have studied some portions of it in depth. I'm not here to defend Christian orthodoxy, but I do find it amusing that somebody who says that he believes in the "Bible-God" and is here preaching his version of Christianity also insists that he's an atheist.

[Too Few Lions]

Arian, where exactly does this name (I am) that you're giving the biblical god come from?  You claim that it is I am 'as defined by the Prophets and Jesus in the Bible'. Where does it appear in the Bible? Where do Jesus or the prophets use this name?

The name of the Jewish god Yahweh appears over 6500 times in the Jewish Bible, and is known from over 40 inscriptions from the 8th/9th century BCE onwards in ancient Israel. The phrase 'I am' appears once to my knowledge, in the myth of the Exodus, where Yahweh tells Moses 'I am who I am'. It all just sounds a bit Popeye to me, maybe this 'GOD' you believe in is a spinach-eating sailor...

[Whitney]

I would like to see a few words defined by Arian:

"God"
"god"
"Bible"
"deity"
"supernatural"
"I am"
"religion"
"theist"
"christian"
"atheist"

please define them all right next to each other as clearly as you can so we can figure out how you are using these words because you are very confusing for anyone who uses those words in a normal way.

[arian (Banned)]

So, you are the first person in history who understands Tillich? All those Christians who think they understand him are mistaken, because you say so?

Oh no my friend, I am way too uneducated to understand Tilliches complete philosophy. I am more of a fisherman with a total of about 4 years of schooling. I speak 3 languages, almost forgot the first two, and English I have not yet grasped, I need my spelling chekerer which I can't find here.

So you say you don't understand Tillich's "complete philosophy," yet you're going to tell us what you think he was saying? Not only that, but you feel qualified to tell us that other Christians don't understand him? That's funny stuff right there. If I want to learn about his philosophy or his theological musings, I'll read them for myself. I certainly don't have any use for your mangled version.

Thank you for that info sir on the e-mail notification.

I'm sure you believe in the Big-bang theory, right? How much of that theory do you understand, down to the quantum gravitation level? What was the 'point in space' that the universe at the 'Planck Epoch' resided in getting ready to create 'space/time' in?
Of the thousands upon thousands of books written on the Big-bang theory alone, how many have you read, how many have you studied? Have you weighed out all the hypothesis relating to the Gravitational singularity? What was before time/space was created by the big bang? There are a lot of ideas out there and some contradict the others, have you weight them all out? Which idea, or theory did you pick and why?

How many 'atheists' understand the big bang theory to the quantum level, and make up their own ideas as to what might of bring about the ... oh whatever was there first, maybe just 'energy' acting upon 'energy' or just some unknown 'information'? Do people who don't know everything there is to know about the theory of the Big bang have a right to believe in it? How about 'biological evolution'? How much of those that believe 'evolution' to be a fact know 'about' evolution? Generally people belive in a 'mangled version', I'm sure you must agree.

As I was reading up alittle on those in history that did not believe in the Trinity doctrine, the main points on Tillich was mentioned. But yes, it would be a good idea for those interested to read Tillich for themselves.

You do sincerely believe that Jesus is God, right?

Of course not. Jesus is the Son of God, who repeatedly claimed His Father was greater than he. And those 'Christian religions' that don't believe in the trinity, made up their own versions of god, like Jehovah, the Sabbath, Allah, Joseph Smith and on and on.

We'll ignore the Biblical basis for the common Christian understanding that Jesus is the Christian god for the moment. Please explain what you think Jesus was. A prophet, maybe?

He was the Messiah, as described in the Bible:

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
NKJV

In the beginning was the Word, and we know God has no beginning, and we know Jesus is the Word of God. Before God sent His Son the Word into the world, He was 'with God' and before that, the 'Word' was God as Eve was Adam before God took her out of him.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
NKJV

The Word (the begotten Son of God) became flesh, implanted as a DNA into the egg of virgin girl named Mary by the Holy Spirit, and was born and named Jesus.

John 1:10
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
NKJV

Man should have recognized the Son of God through his personality, his love, but man only looks upon the flesh and didn't recognize Him.

Interesting version of history. Would you mind:

1. Citing a source for the supposed original meaning of "Christian." (It's just that when the word "Χριστιανός" is used in the Bible, it seems to be pretty clear that it's intended to mean "follower of Christ," or "one who belongs/adheres to Christ.")

I'll just site what you just said, 'followers of Christ, or Christ-like'. The word Christian became a name associated with all the theistic gods. The Gentile church fell back to their old pagan-gods worship and simply absorbed and reinterpreted the One True God "I Am that I Am" (not a name) into their temples.

No, you're not citing what I said. You've added your version of the translation of the Greek word "Χριστιανός," which is not what I wrote. Please cite a reputable authority who says that the translation of "Χριστιανός" is "Christ-like," which is what I asked you to do in the first place. While you're at it, you might give a historic basis for your assertions regarding the theology of "the Gentile church."

CHRISTIAN

CHRISTIAN. A Christian is a believer in and a follower of Jesus Christ the Messiah. This name is more widely employed than any other designation of those who believe unto salvation. However, it occurs in the Scriptures only three times: "And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" (Acts 11:26); "and Agrippa replied to Paul, 'In a short time you will persuade me to become a Christian'" (26:28); "If anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not feel ashamed" (1 Peter 4:16). The term Christian is clearly a Gentile designation for believers because the word Christ, upon which the term was constructed, suggests recognition of the Messiah, which no unbelieving Jew was prepared to do. Becoming a Christian, according to the NT, is a definite act with significant results. According to Lewis Sperry Chafer, no fewer than thirty-three simultaneous and instantaneous divine undertakings and transformations, which collectively constitute the salvation of a soul, take place the moment one exercises faith in Christ and is saved. Among these is that a believer in Christ has the guilt of his sins removed. Second, he is taken out of Adam, the sphere of condemnation, and placed in Christ, the sphere of righteousness and justification. Third, he is given a new standing by virtue of his being placed "in Christ" by the Spirit's baptizing work (1 Cor 12:13; Rom 6:3-4). A Christian then, as Chafer says, "Is not one who does certain things for God but . . . one for whom God has done certain things; he is not so much one who conforms to a certain manner of life as he is one who has received the gift of eternal life; he is not one who depends upon a hopelessly imperfect state but rather one who has reached a perfect standing before God as being in Christ" (Systematic Theology, 7:75).
(from The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Originally published by Moody Press of Chicago, Illinois. Copyright (c) 1988.)

2. Clarifying who are "those few that served and walked according to Jesus teachings" during the time of Constantine, who were opposed by Constantine?

Those that remained 'followers of Christ, or Christ-like' and refused Constantines definition of 'Christian'. The 'sword' that Jesus gave us is the 'Word of God', not some physical butchering knife.

What was Constantine's definition of "Christian"? (Preferably supported by a reputable source.) Who were those that remained 'followers of Christ, or Christ-like,' and where are they mentioned in history? You of course are aware that Constantine reconciled with the Arians and was baptized by an Arian bishop.

The Arians at the time were very influential, but when he opposed the Trinity Doctrine, I believe he was killed, and his books burnt, and those kept were reinterpreted.

Besides the point, I argued against the Trinity doctrine way before I learned of Arian. I was actually called an Arian-heretic, and so I looked him up.

Seeing as Constantine didn't bother to actually get baptized until he was dying, I think that one might legitimately question whether he was serving anything or anyone but his self-interest at any time in his life. That would be pure speculation though, just as your version of Constantine's inner life is.

We are to walk by faith, ... but our actions reveal that 'faith'. Jesus taught us to 'turn the other cheek, and not to 'chop the heads off those that merely threaten us.

Non sequitur. Your version of the meaning of Matthew 10:34-39 is dubious, and as I pointed out, you can not tell us what was in Constantine's heart, nor what his faith was or wasn't, whatever his actions were.

But atheists are allowed to point out the contradicting actions of Christians? Our actions reveal a big part of who we are.

Theism/atheism are two sides of the same coin. One cannot be a religion without the other.

That's unadulterated hogwash. You remind me of other Christians we've had trotting through here spouting their personal re-definitions of commonly understood terms and acting as if they're bestowing some profound wisdom on the benighted unbelievers. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

You do call yourselves 'atheists' am I right? You have a place to gather, those who you share yor testemonials with and so on, right? You have a 'belief sytem' of which theistic gods you don't believe in, right? Two sides of the same coin. You are actually closer to knowing Bible-God than the Theists. They are hopeless because they think they 'know' they are right

How well do you know the Bible? I can back everything I tell you from the Bible, the evidence of Gods awesome wisdom and ability to create through science, the people we observe around us and where we as man-kind are heading in this world.

Says the "atheist."  

Yes, I don't believe in any of those 'theistic gods'. Theism 'does NOT necesseraly include the God of the Bible', and my GOD is very necesseraly the Bible God, and ONLY the Bible God. Not 'may, or may not' be.

You may present any and all resources at your disposal to refute what I say. Fair enough? If at any time you can find anything I say that contradicts the Bible, than what I say is not in accordance with the Word of God, and you may label me a 'liar'.

In my opinion, you haven't done anything since you joined this site but preach, and I had my fill of that decades ago. I've read the Bible in its entirety a couple of times, and have studied some portions of it in depth. I'm not here to defend Christian orthodoxy, but I do find it amusing that somebody who says that he believes in the "Bible-God" and is here preaching his version of Christianity insists that he's an atheist.

I'm very happy that you find it amuzing, because the Theist Christians sure don't. It frightens them something awful.

I enjoyed our debate, I thank you friend.

(Edited to fix quotes. -- Recusant)

[Guardian85]

Arian, if you are an atheist, then I am Napoleon.   

[Asmodean]

So you don't love others (type of worship)? I doubt that.

Personally, my love is conditional and depends on maintaining adequate returns, so I do not equate love to worship

I am a sinner who needs the blood of Christ to be clensed. If I said I do not sin, .. I would be a liar. So if you see me fall, help me up, if you see me sin, tell me so I can wash myself clean again. I'll lovingly try to do the same to everyone else here.

Why the need to be cleansed? Why can't you just be a sinner and proud of it?

[Too Few Lions]

Yes, I don't believe in any of those 'theistic gods'. Theism 'does NOT necesseraly include the God of the Bible', and my GOD is very necesseraly the Bible God, and ONLY the Bible God. Not 'may, or may not' be.

To an atheist, your Bible 'GOD' is no different from Zeus, Baal or Odin. All gods are theistic gods by definition (including yours), in fact the phrase 'theistic gods' is a pointless tautology. Theist derives from the Greek word for god, theos, exactly the same word that's used to describe your 'GOD' in the New Testament!

[Asmodean]

I am here to reasteblish, ... reestablish, .. (I need that spelling checkerer) that sweet name Jesus, and that righteous walk "Christ-like'.

Oh, and unless you are the guy's official PR rep, re-arranging his balls is really not your job. Let your sweet Jesus fight his own battles.

[arian (Banned)]

I would like to see a few words defined by Arian:

"God"
"god"
"Bible"
"deity"
"supernatural"
"I am"
"religion"
"theist"
"christian"
"atheist"

please define them all right next to each other as clearly as you can so we can figure out how you are using these words because you are very confusing for anyone who uses those words in a normal way.

I would like to see a few words defined by Arian:

THIS is why I love you guys. No Christian has EVER asked me this before, only critiqued my different understanding from theirs, and when I proved myself, they would shun me as if I was the devil himself. True believers don't hide, nor would they ever burn another Believer at the stake, but try to reason as you are doing. I am not saying you are a Christian, never. I thank you Whitney.

"God" - Creator of man, Adam. No other gods present in the mind of Adam, Eve or any other siblings within the Garden.

"god" – Man kicked out of the Garden. Over time men decide and say: "Who needs God, I will create a god to my likening, who will serve and fill all my desires." So came the birth of many-gods. Bad crops, boom and there is the 'harvest god', poor bedroom activity, boom and you have the 'fertility god' and so on, thousands of them.

"Bible" – Old Testament is the History of Creation. Then the laws are given to man through Moses to hopefully reveal how wicked men have become and that even the punishment of death will not deter their wicked ways. Man is revealed as if looking in a mirror (laws) in hope he realizes that he's just evil. All his ways are up to no good.

- New Testament – The Saviour. Those that are sick and tired of reaping the result of their iniquity, like the pain and suffering, all the diseases, the hard life, oppression, finally bow in humility and accept Him as their King and their spiritual minds are awakened, overcome their 'self', that 'I' and are set free.
But who are these ones that can follow a King who walks amongst the poor and the worst of sinners, in simple apparel, born in a manger and who washes his Apostles feet, .. a servant himself? Few, very few indeed who are sick and tired of deceiving and being deceived.

The Bible is a window to unimaginable wisdom, power, and peace beyond understanding. But the wicked use it to gain wealth, to control the minds of the multitudes. It gave them power over sin-loving man and forced them to worship man and idols as gods.

"deity" – As defined in the dictionary, with added note:

DEITY:
1. god or goddess: a god, goddess, or other divine being
2. somebody or something like god: somebody or something that is treated like a god
3. divine state: the condition or status of a god or goddess


Divine;
1. religion; having godlike nature: being God or a god or goddess
2. religion; relating to God, gods, or goddesses: connected with, coming from, or caused by God or a god or goddess
3. religion; connected with worship: connected with the worship or service of God or a god or goddess

Note; At Creation, and after man was created, Adam did not know of any God but ONE. As wickedness grew, man distanced himself from God and over time filled that void of his Creator with lies and self deception, creating gods out of wood and stone. These were revered and called 'deities', and worshipped to such extent, that Satan and his angels were invited to come and reside within these worshippers (not the actual idols), and these demonic spirits possessed their bodies and minds. Through divination Satan was able to convince man that those gods were real. We see this in many pagan religious worship, especially in Catholism today. The worship of Mary who is created to be the 'mother of God' is an excellent example.

The definition of 'deities', 'Devine' are all relating to 'Gentile Theism', where sometimes one god would be held above all the others (like the King and his golden image in Daniels time) while the rest of the gods remain in their appointed positions and were continued to be worshipped.
God of Adam, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was NEVER considered as a part of any of them theistic gods, the gentile world didn't even know their Creator God.

"supernatural" – Again look at its definition;

1. not of natural world: relating or attributed to phenomena that cannot be explained by natural laws
2. relating to a deity: relating or attributed to a deity
3. magical: relating or attributed to magic or the occult

Demonic possession is not of the natural world, but are from man worshiping deities like Satan and his angels. These are still practiced by the occult through magic and spells. I know, I have seen them with witnesses, they have attacked me on several occasions.
Of course our Creator is NOT amongst these definitions either, for all things are in 'I Am' including the supernatural realm where Satan and his angels are kept, out of Heaven, roaming this realm that is between earth and Heaven.

Rev 12:12
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

"I am" – Existence, a conscious source of being who is the sum total of all that was, is and ever will be, the only indefinable, un-seeable God. All things that are created like Heaven where the Son resides and where the Angels of God are, this physical universe, and a place called hell that is prepared for Satan and his angels, everything is IN Him. There is no one, not even a single atom besides Him. He is not IN creation, but creation is IN Him.


"religion" – As defined in the dictionary, with note:

1. religion beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life
2. religion particular system: a particular institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine
3. personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by
4. obsession: an object, practice, cause, or activity that somebody is completely devoted to or obsessed by - The danger is that you start to make fitness a religion

As we can see, it is all related to the Theistic gods brought alive by personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine. A perfect example is in:

Acts 17:22-25
Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
NKJV

This shows that the pagan Gentiles did not 'know' our GOD, only worshipped all their theistic gods religiously, until Paul introduced our Creator to them who, as he said; the One whom you worship without knowing, and who ... does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.

This is why people today understand the Creator God within the definition of 'theism', because today's Gentile Christians continue their pagan worship in temples and humongous churches made with hands calling it 'the house of God', and the tithing's, the offerings to God as if He needed anything. They are no different than those back in the time of Paul in Athens.

"theist" – as defined in the dictionaries, the worship of God and gods (one god being the greatest over those other gods, not our Creator), They worship devine beings in the supernatural realm, where Satan and his angels reside for the time being.

"Christian" – a religion as defined by the Pagan Gentiles (see my other post) those that worship the theistic gods. The eternal Church, the body of true Believers in the only True God who 'Is' is not a part of this pagan version of Christianity.


"atheist" – Those that got tired of, or refuse to worship one or any of them theistic deities, god and gods. Atheists are sometimes confused with Satanic worshipers by Theists, and in the same way, Satanic worshipers confuse themselves as being Atheists, but nothing could further from the truth. Satanic worshipers are Theists themselves, like Christians who can go and convert others to Christianity in different countries, and then turn on them and slaughter them in the name of the god they worship. Theists against theists, burning and killing one another, which has nothing to do with the Living Church whose head is Jesus Christ, who taught us to "love one another, to turn the other cheek".

please define them all right next to each other as clearly as you can so we can figure out how you are using these words because you are very confusing for anyone who uses those words in a normal way.

The Pagan theistic Gentile definition of 'Christian' has remained a theistic 'religion' that worship a perverted idolized version of god and gods with Biblical names, idolized by hand made wood and plastic images, idols that cannot hear nor speak. They are the false apostles preparing their doom;

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 Those men are not true apostles — they are false apostles, who lie about their work and disguise themselves to look like real apostles of Christ. 14 Well, no wonder! Even Satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light! 15 So it is no great thing if his servants disguise themselves to look like servants of righteousness. In the end they will get exactly what their actions deserve.
TEV

The Lord has chosen the 'time' to reveal this truth to whoever has an ear and is willing to hear, and that TIME is NOW.

Gal 6:2-5
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For each one shall bear his own load.
NKJV

I am NOT preaching, I am revealing the truth. You asked, I through the help of GOD have provided the answers. If you believe this is debatable, fine, .. let's debate.

[Whitney]

ok...still confused on how you came to view yourself as not a theist.

Where did you get your understanding of the word theist and how did you cram the concept of angels and demons into it?

To be completely blunt, I think you have to be trolling the forum because you are pulling your definitions of theist and atheist out of left field.  I was hoping that you defining all of those words would help to show you that you are really still a theist but your understanding of the word theist is fundamentally flawed as you are arbitrarily considering what you believe to be "the creator" as being God that somehow isn't a god.  Philosophically you appear to be all over the place.

What argument do you have for ignoring these basic (and widely accepted) definitions?
http://www.philosophypages.com/dy/t.htm#theism
http://www.philosophypages.com/dy/a9.htm#athe

I am NOT preaching, I am revealing the truth.

Actually you were just throwing out bible verses that have no apparent application given the context in which they were provided.  Much closer to preaching than providing rational arguments or proof.

[Davin]

Maybe I'm just not high enough yet...