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Still in the Closet

Started by roadrunner, January 23, 2012, 10:42:27 PM

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Amicale

Quote from: roadrunner on January 24, 2012, 11:42:36 PM

My hope is that someone will see my posts and quit lying to themselves. Im sure there are millions out there trying to gain favor of the community and look good by swimming against reality. I talk a good game online but I'll be in church sunday against my will. I'll check back in later.

Roadrunner, don't beat yourself up. Honestly, I think you're being too hard on yourself. You're a smart guy who's asking some very honest, very hard questions. Absolutely nobody can just extricate themselves from their community overnight, especially when they have a spouse and kids, no less. It takes a good long while before most people feel ready enough to just toss in the towel and make a leap that'll affect their entire family, so far as they know. The good news is, people are remarkably resilient, children especially. When your kids grow up, I have a feeling they'll be able to say 'my dad took us to church even though he was struggling with a lot of questions himself, and we're proud of him for being honest and for showing he cared about us." :)

For what it's worth, 'mixed marriages' are possible. They're difficult to work out sometimes, but they're possible and they can work. Even if your wife NEVER jumps on board with you with regard to beliefs, what's the worst that could happen? Your kids will still wind up with two parents who love them very much, one a Christian, one a skeptic. If need be, your wife can take them to church if she wants to and if they'd like to go, and your kids wind up Christians who have learned to be tolerant of beliefs different from their own... or you may find as they grow older, they'll sense that you're just going through the motions at church, and they'll start to ask some critical, analytical questions themselves -- and then look out, you may have some young, feisty new skeptics on your hands. *grin* ;)

Just keep asking those questions, yourself. Read what you can, speak to who you can, and take it a day at a time. We're here for ya. :)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

roadrunner

Quote from: Stevil on January 24, 2012, 11:45:56 PM
Be funny if your wife is thinking the same thing, holding back her disbelief in case you will be disappointed in her.
I wonder the same thing. LOL. i read somewhere that the gold standard in coming out is "I was thinking the samething!" or "Me too. this is pretty stupid!" LOL

roadrunner

@amicale.... looking back i now know my dad was/is an atheist. he just didnt force it on me and now it all makes sense.

The Magic Pudding

Quote from: Stevil on January 24, 2012, 11:45:56 PM
Be funny if your wife is thinking the same thing, holding back her disbelief in case you will be disappointed in her.

Priests, preachers and probably popes do, maybe not to avoid disappointing others though.

Hello Roadrunner, good luck.

Any mention of luck in the above post should not be taken as suggesting the existence of unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that may accrue to a person which causes events to result favourably or unfavourably.  Unless of course the addressee has made up to date payments to The Magic Pudding Luck Scheme.

Too Few Lions

Quote from: roadrunner on January 24, 2012, 11:42:36 PM
I have come to the conclusion that based on how big the cosmos is and how tiny we are and what we know now abnout how it all works, its insane to think that people 3000 years ago who thought a FLAT earth was the center of the universe got it right.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there Roadrunner, the people who wrote the Bible had a vastly different and much smaller view of the cosmos, and their idea of god(s) was very much in relation to that much smaller cosmos.
Good luck with everything and welcome to the forum.

roadrunner

fyi the rest of my first post was

that forums aren't exactly friendly to newcomers like me looking for a place to vent

Tank

Quote from: roadrunner on January 25, 2012, 07:37:52 PM
fyi the rest of my first post was

that forums aren't exactly friendly to newcomers like me looking for a place to vent
You will find this place unusual in that respect  ;D
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

arian (Banned)

Quote from: roadrunner on January 23, 2012, 10:42:27 PM
Im still in the closet. I dont think I'll ever be the Hitchens or Harris of Atheism since its sucjh a taboo right now in society but I do have the personality for it. But I feel like I cant be myself. I would describe myself as an intellectual. I know a lot about a lot of things and wish to know more because I've always thought that the more you know, the more you can learn about yourself that would make you a better person along the way. I am intrigued by social sciences and cosmology/astronomy.

Boy I sure understand where you're coming from Roadrunner. But think for a moment, is the so-called Christianity today what Jesus taught? Like tithing you mentioned, is that what Jesus taught?

Quote from: roadrunnerI just need a place to vent. I've built a world around Christianity and if I come out I am scared I'll lose it all. I've got a wife and kids who I've dedicated to the church. My wife is devout and old school fundamentalist. I havent been here for the years fo the same reason so many others wont and never will, its wrong to doubt. Doubt is a sin.Its wrong to question god. I agree with the moral aspect of the teachings (not OT stuff) but the rational law. I dont like writing checks every week to the church. I've been approached by my wife as not reading the bible to our kids. Its because I cant in good faith lead them stray. I also would hate to die and be wrong. though Im 99.9999999% sure Im right. thats a chance I'll take. but Id hate to FORCE my kids to believe what i believe and be wrong. I am probably agnostic (i dont know what I am but its not christian). I dont know where we came from but I think religion is WAAAAY off.  I think atheism (there is no god and thats that) is the same rigid, stick in the mud, close minded mentality that I hated about christianity. So I am reluctant to use atheist to describe myself. I cant believe Im writing this. Just needed to vent know that there is a guy out there who sits in church every sunday watching people be moved by their own deep emotion and feel guilty.

Let it out man, you're not alone.
Emotion, guilt, it is used by all, atheists, theists, believers and un-believers, it is called indoctrination. What do they do when you join the army? Indoctrination, ... that's what!

What we're all to seek after is the truth, and if that is what you're after, then seek the truth, and don't settle for any indoctrinations. Once you find the 'truth' you will find GOD. Once you find GOD, it will not be you who hides from them so-called Christians, but they will hide from you!

Quote from: roadrunnerThe one thing I do admit when I look around at all the old people at church out there, is they have hope. hope that they will one day see each other again, the rapist will pay for his crime, babies are in gods arms, they are not alone. I look out there and I see that and think, WOW. they would be devestated if they took off their glasses for 2 seconds. i also dont want them to cry for me becuase I understand more how it all works. I know this is all over the place but there is so much i needed to say and forums arent exactly

They have Hope?

The world is filled with people who make a very good living on giving false hope. The Reverend Jim Jones gave hope to thousands, and so did David Koresh, and many, .. many more and look where it got them? And the followers? I don't think God will take it too lightly that they 'believed' a man over Gods Truth, ... now do you?

So many gods and versions of Christianity, ... which one is the true one?

Atheism is a start my friend, leave all them gods to the ones who created them; ... men.
This member has been banned. So don't expect any answers to your questions or comments.

roadrunner

to answer your question in my opinion none of them are true. but Im refering to the false hope that they will not suffer one day and have a mansion etc. everyone isnt ready to handle enlightenment,

arian (Banned)

Quote from: roadrunner on January 27, 2012, 02:32:39 PM
to answer your question in my opinion none of them are true. but Im refering to the false hope that they will not suffer one day and have a mansion etc. everyone isnt ready to handle enlightenment,

Exactly, because according to the Bible, none of those 'theistic gods' are true. We have One God, who can only be referred to like; "The God that IS" , ... or as He told Moses; "I Am who I Am, ... tell my people that 'I Am' has sent me to you."

The word 'theism' was derived from a long Pagan worship of made up gods and godesses, which did not include the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They didn't even knoow of Him. So there arose some people who got tired of worshipping all them gods, ... one in the garden to protect the vegetables, .. one in the bedroom to help the men keep an erection .. you know like Viagra today, LOL, then there were the ones they needed on the boats to keep sea-monsters away and thousands more. So these people got smart and realized that none of these god could do what the priests and priestesses said they could, and trashed them all.

This made the priests afraid, for they depended on the offerings to these gods. So they named these slackers 'atheists'.

ATHEIST
unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library

Remember that the 'God' here is not necesseraly the God of the Bible.


THEIST
1.  belief in God: belief that one God created and rules humans and the world, not necessarily accompanied by belief in divine revelation such as through the Bible 
2.  belief in god or gods: belief in the existence of a god or gods 

Microsoft® Encarta®

The God here is a 'monotheist God' like Allah, who is not the God of our Bible, for Allah does not have a Son.

Find the One TRue God and you will find who you are and your purpose for your physical existance.
This member has been banned. So don't expect any answers to your questions or comments.

Davin

Quote from: arian on January 31, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
Quote from: roadrunner on January 27, 2012, 02:32:39 PM
to answer your question in my opinion none of them are true. but Im refering to the false hope that they will not suffer one day and have a mansion etc. everyone isnt ready to handle enlightenment,

Exactly, because according to the Bible, none of those 'theistic gods' are true. We have One God, who can only be referred to like; "The God that IS" , ... or as He told Moses; "I Am who I Am, ... tell my people that 'I Am' has sent me to you."

The word 'theism' was derived from a long Pagan worship of made up gods and godesses, which did not include the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They didn't even knoow of Him. So there arose some people who got tired of worshipping all them gods, ... one in the garden to protect the vegetables, .. one in the bedroom to help the men keep an erection .. you know like Viagra today, LOL, then there were the ones they needed on the boats to keep sea-monsters away and thousands more. So these people got smart and realized that none of these god could do what the priests and priestesses said they could, and trashed them all.

This made the priests afraid, for they depended on the offerings to these gods. So they named these slackers 'atheists'.

ATHEIST
unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library

Remember that the 'God' here is not necesseraly the God of the Bible.


THEIST
1.  belief in God: belief that one God created and rules humans and the world, not necessarily accompanied by belief in divine revelation such as through the Bible 
2.  belief in god or gods: belief in the existence of a god or gods 

Microsoft® Encarta®

The God here is a 'monotheist God' like Allah, who is not the God of our Bible, for Allah does not have a Son.

Find the One TRue God and you will find who you are and your purpose for your physical existance.
It's rather simple:
If you believe in a god (any god, the ONE true I IS god or even Bob), then you're a theist. If you don't, then you're an atheist.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

arian (Banned)

Quote from: Davin on January 31, 2012, 06:07:17 PM
Quote from: arian on January 31, 2012, 05:27:27 PM
Quote from: roadrunner on January 27, 2012, 02:32:39 PM
to answer your question in my opinion none of them are true. but Im refering to the false hope that they will not suffer one day and have a mansion etc. everyone isnt ready to handle enlightenment,

Exactly, because according to the Bible, none of those 'theistic gods' are true. We have One God, who can only be referred to like; "The God that IS" , ... or as He told Moses; "I Am who I Am, ... tell my people that 'I Am' has sent me to you."

The word 'theism' was derived from a long Pagan worship of made up gods and godesses, which did not include the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They didn't even knoow of Him. So there arose some people who got tired of worshipping all them gods, ... one in the garden to protect the vegetables, .. one in the bedroom to help the men keep an erection .. you know like Viagra today, LOL, then there were the ones they needed on the boats to keep sea-monsters away and thousands more. So these people got smart and realized that none of these god could do what the priests and priestesses said they could, and trashed them all.

This made the priests afraid, for they depended on the offerings to these gods. So they named these slackers 'atheists'.

ATHEIST
unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library

Remember that the 'God' here is not necesseraly the God of the Bible.


THEIST
1.  belief in God: belief that one God created and rules humans and the world, not necessarily accompanied by belief in divine revelation such as through the Bible 
2.  belief in god or gods: belief in the existence of a god or gods 

Microsoft® Encarta®

The God here is a 'monotheist God' like Allah, who is not the God of our Bible, for Allah does not have a Son.

Find the One TRue God and you will find who you are and your purpose for your physical existance.
It's rather simple:
If you believe in a god (any god, the ONE true I IS god or even Bob), then you're a theist. If you don't, then you're an atheist.

Can you define "I Am"?

Going back to the Garden of Eden, the first man Adam. Now he knew GOD. We must define GOD as Adam knew God.

Jesus came and 'defined' GOD to us;

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
NKJV

1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
NKJV


Unless we change the definition of 'theism' to "The belief in God" period, then God would remain the One true God in everyones minds.
This member has been banned. So don't expect any answers to your questions or comments.

Too Few Lions

Arian, your god is no different from Zeus, Baal or Osiris. You clearly know nothing about the Bible or the history of Israelite religion / Judaism. The god of the Jews is Yahweh, he's named as Yahweh many times in the Tanakh. There are also mentions in the Tanakh of El, the main god the Israelites worshipped before Yahwism became the dominant faith in the monarchic period.

Ali

Hi Roadrunner,
I understand how it could be hard to separate yourself from a community that you loved and enjoyed.  I don't blame you for that.  I think that it's possible for believers and non-believers to have great relationships, but there has to be a certain level of respect there, and I can also understand how, if you built your life around your religion, your wife might well feel "betrayed" by you "changing your mind" so to speak.  I don't have any good advice for you, just wanted to tell you good luck, and welcome to the forum.  You'll find lots of supportive people here.

arian (Banned)

Quote from: Too Few Lions on January 31, 2012, 10:46:20 PM
Arian, your god is no different from Zeus, Baal or Osiris. You clearly know nothing about the Bible or the history of Israelite religion / Judaism. The god of the Jews is Yahweh, he's named as Yahweh many times in the Tanakh. There are also mentions in the Tanakh of El, the main god the Israelites worshipped before Yahwism became the dominant faith in the monarchic period.

No, it is the Theistic gods who are no different then the version of Christian god you imagine.
As for the Jews, ... after they left the mountain of God where Moses talked to Him, their faith went downhill from there. They are a rebellious people and still are, and the last place I would turn to understand, or to get to 'know' GOD is the Jews, or their books other than the Bible.

God has no name, Yahweh is not His name, just as 'jellous' is not His name.

Ex 34:14
14(for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God)

NKJV

God has no other gods besides Him, so He does not need to be identified besides 'other gods', for GOD is ONE. We are all in GOD, and GOD is all there is.

Zeus, Odin and Santa are all fairy tales, just as the Three-Demigods defined in the Trinity Doctrine by those we now call Christians.
This member has been banned. So don't expect any answers to your questions or comments.