Do you need god? I bloody well don't!

[pytheas]

I need a god about as much as I need a pink thong.
Have no desire or use for it, ant the result would not be pretty if I did....

I also don't understand the empty feeling ex-religious people get. Why empty?

a depressive can descibe it best, although paint it in black they must
there is a void within, emptiness also witnessed in meditation
static awareness without thoughts or feelings
if you are not depressive the empty has a reassuring slightly content feel to it.

[Sandra Craft]

I need a god about as much as I need a pink thong.
Have no desire or use for it, ant the result would not be pretty if I did....

I also don't understand the empty feeling ex-religious people get. Why empty?

I know when I stopped trying to force belief in god into life's equation my feelings were intense relief, not emptiness, but I think Firebird's post upthread gives a pretty good insight into the empty feeling some atheists have.  Giving up god for some people is like what giving up music would be for most of us -- it can be done, but not easily or willingly and there'd be a gaping absence afterwards that music used to fill.  I think it's mostly an issue for atheists who actually, truly did believe at one point, rather than those of us who never bought into it at all or only tried to believe without success.

[Velma]

I need a god about as much as I need a pink thong.
Have no desire or use for it, ant the result would not be pretty if I did....

I also don't understand the empty feeling ex-religious people get. Why empty?

I know when I stopped trying to force belief in god into life's equation my feelings were intense relief, not emptiness, but I think Firebird's post upthread gives a pretty good insight into the empty feeling some atheists have.  Giving up god for some people is like what giving up music would be for most of us -- it can be done, but not easily or willingly and there'd be a gaping absence afterwards that music used to fill.  I think it's mostly an issue for atheists who actually, truly did believe at one point, rather than those of us who never bought into it at all or only tried to believe without success.

It does seem that way, although I seem to be an exception to that.  I did truly believe, but once I realized it was all smoke and mirrors, I found it easy to let go of all of it and haven't missed it at all.  That's not to say I didn't have issues to work through, but feeling like something was missing wasn't one of them.

[Sandra Craft]

It does seem that way, although I seem to be an exception to that.  I did truly believe, but once I realized it was all smoke and mirrors, I found it easy to let go of all of it and haven't missed it at all.  That's not to say I didn't have issues to work through, but feeling like something was missing wasn't one of them.

Then my next guess would be that it's a purely personal idiosyncratic thing and those of us who've been spared it can thank whatever we're inclinded to thank.  I go for blind luck myself.

(by the way, love your quote from Carl Sagan)

[Sweetdeath]

I need a god about as much as I need a pink thong.
Have no desire or use for it, ant the result would not be pretty if I did....

I also don't understand the empty feeling ex-religious people get. Why empty?

I know when I stopped trying to force belief in god into life's equation my feelings were intense relief, not emptiness, but I think Firebird's post upthread gives a pretty good insight into the empty feeling some atheists have.  Giving up god for some people is like what giving up music would be for most of us -- it can be done, but not easily or willingly and there'd be a gaping absence afterwards that music used to fill.  I think it's mostly an issue for atheists who actually, truly did believe at one point, rather than those of us who never bought into it at all or only tried to believe without success.

That's kinda pathetic. Sorry :<

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I also don't understand the empty feeling ex-religious people get. Why empty?

Imagine losing a loved-one.  Is "emptiness" even strong enough as a term? Losing something or someone important can make one feel empty.  It's no surprise that you don't understand, just as you might not understand what a particular person feels at a funeral.  But you understand the concept.

[Amicale]

I also don't understand the empty feeling ex-religious people get. Why empty?

Been there, done that. Really, to me it was the same feeling of homesickness a lot of my ESL students say they feel -- they've been displaced from their countries of origin for several different reasons, they've been ripped away from family and community, as well as from a way of life, way of thinking, and even a language that they've been comfortable with all of their lives, and they can't return to it anymore. They're out of their element. Nothing's predictable because they haven't yet acclimated to the new territory, they feel vulnerable, and don't have the support system in place that they used to.

Leaving a belief system you once sincerely believed in is a lot like that. In many cases, you feel a strong paradigm shift, so much so that you realize you'll PROBABLY never be able to return to what you once new. Not only is something you used to draw emotional comfort from gone, but what you thought you 'knew' intellectually is also gone, and on top of that, you have family and friends who now disagree with you or may give up on you entirely and no longer speak to you. Your church community, which was once a possible strong social aspect in your life, is gone, and you're no longer welcome among the community who used to greet you so warmly. And finally, if it's a brand new deconversion, you only know what you DON'T, or CAN'T believe, and you haven't yet had the opportunity to fill your life with new ideas, new communities, etc. It's a scary time, and a scary place to be in. It's the feeling of 'I don't know anyone around me who understands me and accepts me for who I am, and I don't know where I fit in.'

As an aside:
This is why you see some atheists reverting BACK to the faith they left behind -- even if the faith intellectuall no longer makes sense, they try to force themselves to believe it again, or at least fake belief successfully enough that nobody else will notice because they want to be 'a part of the family' again. I know that most of us who live in developed, modern cities find this reversion backwards sad... but not everyone is in a community where there ARE secular groups/people to welcome them in and make them feel at home. Sometimes, being an atheist means you'll get arrested, or ostracized, or worse, killed, in some parts of the world. In those cases, it's not surprising to me when people return to what they knew before. It's not easy being alone, and humans are generally social creatures.

[Thunder Road]

That's kinda pathetic. Sorry :<

I really don't think it is.  There are some people who were brought up atheist or at least non-religious and don't think twice about it.  But there are others who were brought up religious.  I mean can you imagine I wanted to be a priest for about 3 years?  I went to 12 years of Catholic school.  Everything I did, family or social, was tied to Catholicism.  So shedding it does make me feel somewhat empty.  Hopefully it's only a temporary emptiness.

Although I can't speak for everybody, it generally seems that those who weren't brought up with god say they don't need him, while those who were say they do...or at least, they feel that something isn't there that was there previously.

Like I said before, that's not a reason for us to revert back to faith.  But it is, nonetheless, a feeling.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

That's kinda pathetic. Sorry :<

I really don't think it is.  There are some people who were brought up atheist or at least non-religious and don't think twice about it.  But there are others who were brought up religious.  I mean can you imagine I wanted to be a priest for about 3 years?  I went to 12 years of Catholic school.  Everything I did, family or social, was tied to Catholicism.  So shedding it does make me feel somewhat empty.  Hopefully it's only a temporary emptiness.

Although I can't speak for everybody, it generally seems that those who weren't brought up with god say they don't need him, while those who were say they do...or at least, they feel that something isn't there that was there previously.

Like I said before, that's not a reason for us to revert back to faith.  But it is, nonetheless, a feeling.

Another way I imagine it is considering how one gender could relate to another about having some radical surgery to remove a gender-related body part.  It would be hard for me to understand what having a hysterectomy or mastectomy would be like, since I've never had a uterus or breasts.  But women who have had such surgeries typically feel a significant loss.  I can understand that from a conceptual standpoint, but since that is not part of my experience, it's difficult to really understand the feeling.  But other women wouldn't have any such difficulty. Maybe that's not a great example, but that would be one way to understand how a person losing his religion might feel.

[Sweetdeath]

You can give all the examples you want.  I never felt the loss, so I wont understand. Kinda pointless to keep attempting to compare it.

[Thunder Road]

You can give all the examples you want.  I never felt the loss, so I wont understand. Kinda pointless to keep attempting to compare it.

I don't care whether or not you understand it, but calling another member's experiences "pathetic" really set me off.  That's all.

[Thunder Road]

I'm sorry I snapped.  Now I need to go to confession.  lol

[Firebird]

You can give all the examples you want.  I never felt the loss, so I wont understand. Kinda pointless to keep attempting to compare it.

I don't care whether or not you understand it, but calling another member's experiences "pathetic" really set me off.  That's all.

I have to agree. I don't think it's fair to minimize someone's feelings that way. Heck,  I greatly admire atheists who stand up for themselves in the face of their religious family and social structure. I was extremely fortunate to have grown up in a secular environment where I can express my beliefs freely, but not every atheist comes from a background like that. To stand up for your beliefs in that way and go against your family and friends is not an easy thing to do.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

You can give all the examples you want.  I never felt the loss, so I wont understand. Kinda pointless to keep attempting to compare it.

OK, I was just trying to communicate.

[Amicale]

I have to agree. I don't think it's fair to minimize someone's feelings that way. Heck,  I greatly admire atheists who stand up for themselves in the face of their religious family and social structure. I was extremely fortunate to have grown up in a secular environment where I can express my beliefs freely, but not every atheist comes from a background like that. To stand up for your beliefs in that way and go against your family and friends is not an easy thing to do.

This. To date, I've had one family member 'wash their hands' of me, another verbally tell me they've 'given up on' me, a parent cut off regular contact, "friends" who said they 'needed to move on"/"not know" me anymore, etc etc... all because I explained my beliefs to them. Now, in another post, I said I was lucky to have family and friends who mostly supported me during this process. And that's very true. I'm REALLY fortunate and lucky to have them. But it's certainly not unanimous support across the board, and I've accepted that as all part of what it means to be honest with myself.