Do you need god? I bloody well don't!

[Traveler]

...Another way I imagine it is considering how one gender could relate to another about having some radical surgery to remove a gender-related body part.  It would be hard for me to understand what having a hysterectomy or mastectomy would be like, since I've never had a uterus or breasts.  But women who have had such surgeries typically feel a significant loss.  I can understand that from a conceptual standpoint, but since that is not part of my experience, it's difficult to really understand the feeling.  But other women wouldn't have any such difficulty. Maybe that's not a great example, but that would be one way to understand how a person losing his religion might feel.

I must be weird. I've never been religious, so I don't feel the emptiness of being an atheist.

And on the issue, I've had a hysterectomy, oopherectomy, and bilateral mastectomy. And I very rarely feel any sense of loss at all. In fact, I tended to think of the positive changes, rather than focus on the negatives. I never wanted children, so that wasn't an issue. Hysterectomy simply meant my pesky periods (mine were really, really bad) were gone. It was a huge relief. As for the mastectomy, cancer sucks. The fear of it, the treatment of it, and the massive complications I've suffered from surgery, chemo and rads suck. But losing my breasts? I feel joy at never having to wear a bra again. I feel joy at never having to worry about whether a man is talking to ME or to my breasts. I feel relief, mostly. No more breast tissue (or only miniscule amounts) in which to grow more cancer. No bouncing when I run. No bras. Woohoooo!!!

That said, I do understand your point. And I know that I've never been a very average or normal person, so my reactions may not be the norm. But I wonder if our reactions to change, whether by our own volition or through disease or accident or whatever else is out of our control ... I wonder if our reactions have more to do with our fundamental personality, rather than with what the change is. I guess I'm just adaptable that way.

Whatever the reasons, hugs to all of you who've deconverted and are feeling lost or alone. We're here for you, and I hope that you can find peace in your new world view.

[The Magic Pudding]

There are leaves in my gutters again.
I need to get them out, again.
If god could do the job, it could be construed I need him.
I don't think he will, I think I need a ladder and gloves.

[Sandra Craft]

But it's certainly not unanimous support across the board, and I've accepted that as all part of what it means to be honest with myself.

That's been true for me as well, of so many revelations in my life.  I was way fortunate that in most cases the rule of "those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter" applied.  In any case, honesty is much less ulcer producing than living in any kind of closet, and my sincere sympathies go to those who truly don't have a good choice.

oopherectomy

What is?

But I wonder if our reactions to change, whether by our own volition or through disease or accident or whatever else is out of our control ... I wonder if our reactions have more to do with our fundamental personality, rather than with what the change is.

I now agree with this.   I used to think it was a matter of who really believed once but, at least from the responses on this board, that doesn't seem to have all that much impact across the board.

Whatever the reasons, hugs to all of you who've deconverted and are feeling lost or alone. We're here for you, and I hope that you can find peace in your new world view.

There are leaves in my gutters again.
I need to get them out, again.
If god could do the job, it could be construed I need him.
I don't think he will, I think I need a ladder and gloves.

This is no question my favorite of your poems.

[Traveler]

oopherectomy

What is?

Removal of ovaries.  

And, oops, I misspelled it. Should be oophorectomy.

[Sandra Craft]

oopherectomy

What is?

Removal of ovaries.  

And, oops, I misspelled it. Should be oophorectomy.

Like I would know.  But I seem to remember in your intro post you said you were OK now, right?  (fingers crossed)

[Traveler]

...But I seem to remember in your intro post you said you were OK now, right?  (fingers crossed)

Yep. I get checked every six months (down from every four!!!). Actually, tomorrow I have to have a mole biopsied, but that's hopefully just because they keep me under a microscope now. I'm told its probably nothing, so I'm trying hard to believe them. I spent two weeks around xmas and new year's waiting for biopsy results on a suspicious change to my mastectomy scar, and it turned out to be benign. It's one of the hassles of being a cancer survivor. Every little thing has to be checked out. But, basically, I'm fine, thanks for asking!

[Ali]

So glad to hear that you are well now.

Have you ever heard about the resilience gene?  I think you must have it, because you have such a healthy adaptable attitude to changes and losses that might be devastating to someone else.  I'm kind of a believer in the resilience gene.  I noticed that the trait (resilience) appeared to be passed down through the women on my mom's side of the family long before I ever heard that it could actually be a physical gene that could be passed on in your DNA.

I went through a phase in my late teens and early twenties where I really tried to believe in some sort of religion because I thought that I needed some sort of spirituality to be a whole healthy person.  So I guess that implies that I was feeling some sort of emptiness or loss.  But over time, I got over it and stopped trying to be someone I wasn't.

[Amicale]

I went through a phase in my late teens and early twenties where I really tried to believe in some sort of religion because I thought that I needed some sort of spirituality to be a whole healthy person.  So I guess that implies that I was feeling some sort of emptiness or loss.  But over time, I got over it and stopped trying to be someone I wasn't.

*Nods*

I think they need to do a psychological/scientific study of some kind that focuses on why teens/people in their early 20s so often use that period of their lives to explore something other than what they were raised with --whether it's a new religion, lack of religion, a new social group, etc. This desire and yearning to explore and 'find one's identity' in terms of trying to embrace a new philosophy is interesting, and so many of us go through it. I guess part of the reason is, we want to be different from our parents to some extent. Or perhaps we're testing the claims that were made to us in childhood to see if they hold, or need revision. Or, possibly, life just gets harder in one's teens and 20s, so we reach out to new/different communities who we hope can help us. It'd be an interesting study, if it hasn't already been done. I keep thinking of the idea that a human's brain isn't fully developed until they're in their early 20s -- maybe this 'trying out something different' philosophically/spiritually is a natural way our brains develop towards maturity, I'm not sure.

I do know that in my teens and very early 20s, I swung like a yo-yo, towards and away from belief. I was fighting hard to figure it out, jumping from one side of the fence to the other... and somewhere along the way, I guess I just got stuck ON the fence, and haven't jumped firmly down onto one side or the other yet.

Eh, I'll give it time. I'm a seeker by nature, and I'm only 26, so I imagine in another 10 years I'll be as different a person as I was when I compare age 16 to now.

[Traveler]

...I think they need to do a psychological/scientific study of some kind that focuses on why teens/people in their early 20s so often use that period of their lives to explore something other than what they were raised with ...

I took a bunch of psychology classes in college, and I recall theories that it was a part of becoming an adult. A normal developmental stage. Of differentiating oneself from one's parents, and learning to be independent. I don't remember details, but if I remember later on I'll poke around a little and see if I can come up with some of them.