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Question for Struggling Atheists

Started by xSilverPhinx, January 18, 2012, 03:44:45 PM

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xSilverPhinx

I was hoping, if you don't mind of course, if you could tell us a bit more about why you're struggling. It might help to get others to know more about where you're coming from and why many of your arguments look so theistic in nature.

Have you always been an atheist, for instance? Do you live in a highly religious area, what is that like? Would you consider yourself to be a more scientifically inclined person and like reading up on science? I ask because from my limited experience, people who don't know that many alternative explanations tend to accept the god argument more easily. Not that there couldn't be people who see the world as having both naturalistic and metaphysical explanations (non over-lapping magesteria)...

Do you want to be a theist?


(edited original to include atheists with lingering struggles from their post-theistic lives instead of directing the questions at one in particular)

I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


yodachoda

Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think.  If I had a choice, of course I'd chose there to be a God and to live after death.  Unfortunately, I'm a realist and I don't think this is true.  I grew up in a religious family.  I'm an undergraduate biology student graduating this year, decided to become atheist about half a year ago.  It's still kinda difficult because I'm just plain scared that if God does exist I might go to hell.  I mean, I'm not 100% sure he doesn't exist, somewhere around 80%ish that he doesn't exist. 

I'm struggling also because I need to take a bit of a leap of faith to believe there is no God.  It's a small one I think though.  Given that we have a planet and we have a self replicating molecule like a bacteria, I'm pretty confident purely natural explanations are sufficient to turn that into all life we see over 3.8 billion years.  But I'm not so confident that a self replicating molecule could arise from regular molecules.  A single bacteria is so complex that just looking at how its genetic machinery works sometimes makes me think "wow, how in the heck did something so complex arise from naturalistic processes?".  But perhaps something simpler than bacteria evolved into it but is not extinct.  In other words, if you go back in time far enough the self replicating molecule was probably simpler and simpler.  You get to a point where it's not too ridiculous to think pure chance could have arranged molecules in a way that they chemically formed a self replicating molecule.  Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's a tiny leap of faith to believe this occurred (as well as natural processes like gravity acting on star dust forming our planet and sun), compared to the gigantic leap of faith that there's some invisible man living up there and we continue living in another dimension after we die for eternity.  This latter one seems almost like a fairy tale. 

Amicale

In all honesty, the whole question's pretty open for me. I'm not struggling at all. Just wondering, really. I'd tend towards 'atheist-ish', maybe 'agnostic' if pegged down, but I rarely use those terms at all, and just describe myself generally as a secular humanist and leave it at that for most folks, and most understand what I mean by that.

Here's my basic background: I was raised Catholic, and flirted on and off with Catholicism, Protestantism, and secular humanism for years. Back then, yeah, I'd definitely say I was struggling to find 'the truth'.

Over the last few years, I've since concluded that I'm fine with saying when it comes to God existing, the jury's out, although from what I've seen and learned, I'd lean heavily towards 'No'. If I ever found conclusive proof that a being had in fact created the Universe, set it in motion, and then let it go about its business... I'd be fine with that and it would make some sense to me, really, considering the incredible intricacy of everything. That being said, I love science, and suspect that the universe probably IS entirely natural... but hey, we should be open to changing our views, should the evidence ever present itself.

It's more important to me, personally, to focus on what I DO know to be true: my fellow human beings need care, compassion, help, etc regardless of what they do or don't believe.


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Asmodean

There is another dimension to it: Some people struggle to maintain their non-militant atheist perspective. That there is something I, for one, have failed miserably...

In any case, that would make them struggling atheists, just not struggling with atheism vs. theism.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

NatsuTerran

That is a very good point asmo. I have struggled with this as well. I like to force myself to be non-militant in order to live more positively overall. Sometimes it can be a struggle because not keeping my head in the game is like a sign of weakness in a way.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 18, 2012, 03:44:45 PM
(edited original to include atheists with lingering struggles from their post-theistic lives instead of directing the questions at one in particular)

I don't think I have lingering struggles so much as lingering openness to the possibility.  Something that actually qualifies as evidence, or a really good reason to behave as if a god exists and I'm willing to change my mind.  I just can't do the worship part -- I'm not trying to be difficult, and I don't think I'm "prideful", I just don't have a worshipful nature.  Religious worship is like romantic obsession and my emotions don't go into the extreme range.

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Amicale

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on January 20, 2012, 04:20:32 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 18, 2012, 03:44:45 PM
(edited original to include atheists with lingering struggles from their post-theistic lives instead of directing the questions at one in particular)

I don't think I have lingering struggles so much as lingering openness to the possibility.  Something that actually qualifies as evidence, or a really good reason to behave as if a god exists and I'm willing to change my mind.  I just can't do the worship part -- I'm not trying to be difficult, and I don't think I'm "prideful", I just don't have a worshipful nature.  Religious worship is like romantic obsession and my emotions don't go into the extreme range.



I'm in the same camp you're in, here. :) If sufficient evidence came up to actually believe, OK, I'd be willing to change my mind and just believe. Worship, on the other hand, doesn't work with my emotional range either. I love and appreciate my family and friends, but I'd never think of worshiping anyone or anything, mostly because I don't obsess, fawn, or drool over anything. I'd be fine with similarly appreciating a Creator, but fawning over? Nope. :)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Tank

Quote from: Asmodean on January 19, 2012, 11:22:45 PM
There is another dimension to it: Some people struggle to maintain their non-militant atheist perspective. That there is something I, for one, have failed miserably...

In any case, that would make them struggling atheists, just not struggling with atheism vs. theism.
I couldn't agree more. The more I hang around theists the more their views annoy me.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Too Few Lions

Quote from: Amicale on January 20, 2012, 04:30:58 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on January 20, 2012, 04:20:32 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on January 18, 2012, 03:44:45 PM
(edited original to include atheists with lingering struggles from their post-theistic lives instead of directing the questions at one in particular)
I don't think I have lingering struggles so much as lingering openness to the possibility.  Something that actually qualifies as evidence, or a really good reason to behave as if a god exists and I'm willing to change my mind.  I just can't do the worship part -- I'm not trying to be difficult, and I don't think I'm "prideful", I just don't have a worshipful nature.  Religious worship is like romantic obsession and my emotions don't go into the extreme range.
I'm in the same camp you're in, here. :) If sufficient evidence came up to actually believe, OK, I'd be willing to change my mind and just believe. Worship, on the other hand, doesn't work with my emotional range either. I love and appreciate my family and friends, but I'd never think of worshiping anyone or anything, mostly because I don't obsess, fawn, or drool over anything. I'd be fine with similarly appreciating a Creator, but fawning over? Nope. :)
yeah, the thought of worshipping anything totally goes against my nature, and I can't believe that any god(s) would want us to worship them if they did exist. I imagine the whole worship thing might date from a time when gods were linked to royalty and religion was a tool used by authoritarian regimes to justify their rule.

The Magic Pudding

Quote from: Too Few Lions on January 20, 2012, 11:46:18 AMI imagine the whole worship thing might date from a time when gods were linked to royalty and religion was a tool used by authoritarian regimes to justify their rule.

Ye the "lord" thing kind of gives it away.

Liar For Jesus

YODACHODA said :'Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think'

Reply:    This is an interesting statement  ;   why do you see atheism as a less happier life ?

Asmodean

Blissful ignorance is bliss, or so they say...
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Davin

Quote from: Asmodean on January 20, 2012, 04:19:55 PM
Blissful ignorance is bliss, or so they say...
I don't know about that, most of the angry people I know are angry because they're ignorant.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Asmodean

Quote from: Davin on January 20, 2012, 04:24:01 PM
Quote from: Asmodean on January 20, 2012, 04:19:55 PM
Blissful ignorance is bliss, or so they say...
I don't know about that, most of the angry people I know are angry because they're ignorant.
In my experience, it's usually more because they are ignorant, but refuse to admit it - even to themselves.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Ali

Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 20, 2012, 04:09:59 PM
YODACHODA said :'Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think'

Reply:    This is an interesting statement  ;   why do you see atheism as a less happier life ?

I get this.  I don't necessarily think that theism would lead to a happier life, but I understand how it helps with some of the harder parts of life.  Like for me, I have to admit that I'm kind of....scared of death, I guess.  Like, I think about not existing any more, and I know that it won't matter to me then, but I really want to keep existing.  I want to know what the world is like in a thousand years, or a million, and it makes me sad that no part of my consciousness will be around to witness it.  I think about the people I love dying, my parents, my brother, my husband, my son, and it's a punch in the stomach.  How lovely would it be to believe that even once they die, we'll all be together again someday.  Accepting their mortality and my own is the hardest part of atheism to me.  I also understand how hard it is to realize that you are powerless against an indifferent world.  When catastrophes happen, often we can't do much to help with them.  Some larger catastrophes like natural disasters give you the opportunity to donate money and/or services to feel like you are doing something, but often smaller more personal tragedies (like a friend developing cancer) leave you feeling like there is little that you can do to help, other than be there to support them, bring them food, et cetera.  But with those personal tragedies, you want to do more!  You want to be able to heal them, make it better!  And most often, you can't.  So I can see why prayer is seductive, making you feel like just maybe, you can help them heal.  My bottom line is, I don't think atheism is for the faint of heart.  I think it takes a certain kind of courage to stare into the abyss, so to speak, and not turn to comforting fairy tales.