Are you sure God does not exist?

[AnimatedDirt]

Is this god in its teacher function again, teaching humans important lessons thru pain and suffering?  It's interesting that an omnipotent being can't find any other way of teaching a particular lesson than, say, having a 3-yr old die of brain cancer.  I'm not saying it might not be so, I'm just saying it's odd.

It is odd when you don't understand it all, isn't it.  The "God is omnipotent so he surely can do..." argument is always funny to me.  No person ever reflects on that and even relates it back to oneself as humanly possible.

I'm sure there are cases where parents are walking their kids to school are hit and killed by cars or other reasons.  Who blames the parent?

[Sandra Craft]

I think its pretty obvious that creating severe birth defects is not a loving act. I think its pretty obvious that creating flesh-eating bacteria is not a loving act. I think it's pretty obvious that asking a man to kill his son as a test is not a loving act. Shall I go on? There is much pain and suffering in the world. This is inconsistant with an infinately loving creator.

And of course removal of ALL pain = infinitely loving.

I don't quite understand where you're going with this. Pain, as in the pain one feels when cut, is important. It tells us the stove is hot we should move our hand off it, for instance. Or to avoid hugging cacti in the desert. But cancer? Multiple sclerosis? Alzeimer's Disease? And perhaps more importantly, horrible diseases in young, innocent children? What are we to learn from that? These kinds of situations break people. And to make an innocent child suffer. A child who's too young to learn anything from it? That's just cruel.

I think where AD is going off track is in the ALL or nothing mindset.

It is odd when you don't understand it all, isn't it.  The "God is omnipotent so he surely can do..." argument is always funny to me.  No person ever reflects on that and even relates it back to oneself as humanly possible.

Yes, I find things I don't understand odd, that's kind of the definition of "odd".  So your version of god does not include omnipotence?  Your god is powerful enough to have created everything, including humans and diseases, but not powerful enough to control what happens after creation? Or is simply indifferent to what happens after creation?  That's interesting but you must understand that's far from the usual definition of god in this country so it's not going to be the one most people refer to in a discussion of god and disaster.

[AnimatedDirt]

I don't quite understand where you're going with this. Pain, as in the pain one feels when cut, is important. It tells us the stove is hot we should move our hand off it, for instance. Or to avoid hugging cacti in the desert. But cancer? Multiple sclerosis? Alzeimer's Disease? And perhaps more importantly, horrible diseases in young, innocent children? What are we to learn from that? These kinds of situations break people. And to make an innocent child suffer. A child who's too young to learn anything from it? That's just cruel.

Are you suggesting there is good in pain?  Just want to be clear. 

[Sandra Craft]

I don't quite understand where you're going with this. Pain, as in the pain one feels when cut, is important. It tells us the stove is hot we should move our hand off it, for instance. Or to avoid hugging cacti in the desert. But cancer? Multiple sclerosis? Alzeimer's Disease? And perhaps more importantly, horrible diseases in young, innocent children? What are we to learn from that? These kinds of situations break people. And to make an innocent child suffer. A child who's too young to learn anything from it? That's just cruel.

Are you suggesting there is good in pain?  Just want to be clear. 

I thought Traveler was very clear about the situations in which pain is useful, even necessary, and can therefore be defined as "good" if you like, tho never agreeable or pleasant.  What was unclear to you, unless you're still stuck in the ALL or nothing problem?

[Sweetdeath]

Are Animated and SA gonna be bffs now? >_>

[AnimatedDirt]

I thought Traveler was very clear about the situations in which pain is useful, even necessary, and can therefore be defined as "good" if you like, tho never agreeable or pleasant.  What was unclear to you, unless you're still stuck in the ALL or nothing problem?

I'm not stuck on the ALL or nothing problem.  The problem I have is the apparent ability of *you to KNOW ALL the reasons one may be purposely inflicted with pain...assuming, as *you may, god is the author of pain and suffering.

[Sweetdeath]

What exactly does one tell a 10 year old with a brain tumor?
Hm, nothing about an all loving god.

[Ali]

Is this god in its teacher function again, teaching humans important lessons thru pain and suffering?  It's interesting that an omnipotent being can't find any other way of teaching a particular lesson than, say, having a 3-yr old die of brain cancer.  I'm not saying it might not be so, I'm just saying it's odd.

It is odd when you don't understand it all, isn't it.  The "God is omnipotent so he surely can do..." argument is always funny to me.  No person ever reflects on that and even relates it back to oneself as humanly possible.

I'm sure there are cases where parents are walking their kids to school are hit and killed by cars or other reasons.  Who blames the parent?

I don't see where you're going with this argument.

I can buy the whole "free will" argument when it comes to evil in the world.  "God isn't evil, he just allows humans to be evil because they have free will."  I get it.  But what about tsumamis and eartquakes and tornados?  How are those the act of a loving god?

Not to throw myself a pity party or anything, but I've had a really devastating time over the last year.  I had 2 miscarriages of much wanted babies in less than a year.  And the thing that strikes me, is that some people have tried to tell me stupid bullshit like "God has a plan."  Oh yeah?  Your loving god has a plan that involves dead babies?  And killing little kids with cancer, and all of the awful stuff that happens that isn't anyone's fault.  That's all part of a loving god's plans?  Who is this freak show, and why can't he put together a plan that doesn't involve killing innocents?

[Whitney]

Are Animated and SA gonna be bffs now? >_>

Sweetdeath, you know that posts like this don't help contribute to a civil discussion.

Let's all try to play nice

[AnimatedDirt]

What exactly does one tell a 10 year old with a brain tumor?
Hm, nothing about an all loving god.

Which answer do you want?  Is the parent a believer in God or is the parent an Atheist?  The deluded answer or the answer *you would give??  Either way is not the child loved?

[Ali]

What exactly does one tell a 10 year old with a brain tumor?
Hm, nothing about an all loving god.

Which answer do you want?  Is the parent a believer in God or is the parent an Atheist?  The deluded answer or the answer *you would give??  Either way is not the child loved?

The child is loved by their parent.  But why would a loving god give a child a brain tumor?  From YOUR point of view (assuming that you believe that god is a loving god.)

[Traveler]

(((Ali)))

If god has a plan its a bad one.

[Sweetdeath]

Are Animated and SA gonna be bffs now? >_>

Sweetdeath, you know that posts like this don't help contribute to a civil discussion.

Let's all try to play nice

Sorry. :x



Ali: i'm really sorry to hear about your incidents. I can't imagine how you feel..

And I felt similarly. After my rape at  14, hearing "god has a plan" from my father made me completely furious with him. I don't believe that shit. I believe it even less that an all loving god could watch a man rape someone or a child be murdered. So yeah, none of that~
I live my life and not dwell on such bullshit.

[AnimatedDirt]

The child is loved by their parent.  But why would a loving god give a child a brain tumor?  From YOUR point of view (assuming that you believe that god is a loving god.)

God doesn't give brain tumors.

[Sweetdeath]

The child is loved by their parent.  But why would a loving god give a child a brain tumor?  From YOUR point of view (assuming that you believe that god is a loving god.)

God doesn't give brain tumors.

God doesn't do anything. o_o