ID Questions (split from Hello. Looks like a good forum)

[Siz]

   As far as I.D. goes...I havent arrived at anything conclusive other than we do seem to be in a certain part of the Universe that is just right for our many life forms to thrive.   

We have only explored a very small percentage of the universe. We as a society are still very ignorant of what is out there. From a statistical stand point, it's likely there are other planets in the universe capable of supporting life similar to that on earth.

Agreed. Billions. And we won't EVER meet any of them.

We've been capable of conceiving of alien life for, let's say, 4000 years. And if our race (and it's space-faring intelligence) lasts for another, say, 20,000 years the, that's long enough for the light from the nearest 4700 stars in our own galaxy to reach us - let alone a ship carrying chocolates to say "hello". So, there might have been billions of intelligent alien species come and gone before us, somewhere, and there may be billions after us. But the chances of two existing within even 10,000 light years, and within 10,000 years of each other are so infinitesimal as to be negligable. Time to face our oblivion, people!

Why are we here, now? Because we exist to percieve it. And the same question has probably been asked a billion times before.

[Twentythree]

"Time to face our oblivion, people!"

I would not call our conscious awareness and the far reaches of the vast and plentiful galaxy oblivion. It may appear to be oblivion because of the enormous distances and times that are difficult to perceive. I am not of the mind that this universe is akin to oblivion. It is replete with all sorts of perceivable and unperceivable activity. I would be even more excited to be able to witness the unfolding of the universe in geological time to see the whirling masses of gasses and dust become stars to see those stars draw in orbiting planets for those planets to develop into solar systems. To see in real time the whirling arrangement of galaxies. To see in a snapshot the genesis of life spring forth from nothing but colliding atoms into a thriving network of life. This to me is the very opposite of oblivion it is a great and wonderful landscape to be explored and understood.

All of this though I think is not helpful to original poster who is searching for answers. This intergalactic talk of potential life on other planets does not help the individual seeking answers to questions regarding their own existence. To that I say that you have to trust what you can see. You have to trust to a certain degree your common sense. If you strip away all the filler and historical allusions in any religion at the end of the day they will have you believing in ghosts and magic. 

[Siz]

When I say oblivion, that's not to take anything away from the beauty and splendour of the universe - I'm its biggest fan. I just mean to say that the human race is doomed to its solitary and short-lived existence. We won't be remembered - or even known at all outside our puny solar system. And once we're gone, no legacy, nothing...oblivion.

[Twentythree]

The notion that we won't be remembered or known outside of our own solar system is only speculation on your part. Perhaps there is a super intelligent alien craft or message on its way right now. Eventually the sun will burn too big for this planet to withstand, but our intelligence or products of our intelligence may live on for millions of years beyond that in the form of messages. Oblivion and doom seem to be very pessimistic words. I mean human life is only hundreds of thousands of years old, we are one of the best creatures at adaptation to conditions on and now outside of our own planet and if we apply our advanced intellect the right way there is no telling how long or how far the reach of humanity will go on. Pioneer 10 went deep space and was transmitting via radio at 12 billion KM or over 7.4 billion miles away there is no way to tell how far it is now or how far it will go. This is something that we've been able to accomplish in such an insignificant amount of cosmological time that it's impossible for me to look at the nature of the universe with anything but beaming optimism. The distances are vast but at one time in our meager history the span of the Atlantic ocean was pretty vast too...

[Siz]

The notion that we won't be remembered or known outside of our own solar system is only speculation on your part.

Indeed. At least equally as valid as your speculation to the contrary.

Perhaps there is a super intelligent alien craft or message on its way right now.

Mmmm, Perhaps. I'd like nothing more.

Eventually the sun will burn too big for this planet to withstand, but our intelligence or products of our intelligence may live on for millions of years beyond that in the form of messages.

They may do, with the likelihood that they'll never be recieved/understood by another species.

Oblivion and doom seem to be very pessimistic words.

One has no reason, other than blind optimism, to consider our fate to be anything other than oblivion. I'm not sad, it's just what I consider to be more likely. Optimistic desire is not, for me, sufficient grounds for belief.

I mean human life is only hundreds of thousands of years old, we are one of the best creatures at adaptation to conditions

Compared to what?

...if we apply our advanced intellect the right way there is no telling how long or how far the reach of humanity will go on. Pioneer 10 went deep space and was transmitting via radio at 12 billion KM or over 7.4 billion miles away there is no way to tell how far it is now or how far it will go.

These distances are insignificant in astronomical terms. I'm not saying it's impossible; given infinite time our messages will reach another civilisation (if there are any). But the life supporting infrastructure of the universe as we know it may well be finite. There is no lottery on Earth that that gives worse odds, by many factors of magnitude (depending on your assumptions of the variables of the Drake equation (N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L)).

This is something that we've been able to accomplish in such an insignificant amount of cosmological time that it's impossible for me to look at the nature of the universe with anything but beaming optimism.

Speculation on your part? On what do you base your optimism?

The fact is that the chances of us surviving long enough to develop the technology to leave the solar system AND being close enough to another species, AND existing at the same time are astronomically lower than the likelihood of meeting noone.

[Whitney]

I'd like to hear what Struggling Atheist things of all the comments related to his last post in this thread.

As a related side question, I'd like to know what he meant by "raised atheist"...if that just means not in a church then I could better understand why some of this stuff may be new to him and seem like it is worth exploring (and everyone should figure it out for themselves even if it means exploring stuff that found to be nonsense).

[yodachoda]

Blind watchmaker by Richard dawkins is good for countering the "irredicubly complex" argument.