Strong and Weak Atheism...is it really necessary?

[iplaw]

Well said laetustheos.  For anyone who cares:

C. 4 BC: Jesus of Nazareth is born in the town of Bethlehem.  Although the calculations of Dionysius Exiguus put the birth of Jesus in the year that in consequence is called AD 1, history places his birth more likely some time between 6 and 4 BC.
 
C. AD 30: Major preachings of Jesus, such as the Sermon on the Mount. The teachings of Jesus were later spread by several Apostles, and formed much of the material of the Gospels.

C. AD 33: Jesus of Nazareth is crucified by Roman Empire authorities after Jewish leaders in Jerusalem accuse Jesus of blasphemy. Instructed his followers to baptize and form disciples who would constitute his Church, with Saint Peter as its leader, a position that passed to the Bishop of Rome, later called the Pope.

C. 110: Ignatius of Antioch uses the term Catholic Church in a letter to the church at Smyrna (Date disputed, some insist it was a forgery written in 250 or later. Others insist he merely meant "catholic", small "c", as in Universal.)

So the term Catholic was not used until at least 110 AD.

Churches make their eventual split after 313 AD after the Counsel of Nicea and formulation of the Nicean creed into Eastern Orthodox, Catholic and so on.

[Asmodean Prime]

I don't agree that catholics are Christians, generally. How can they be Christian when they worship the pope as equal to God on earth, and infallible?  And they also worship Mary ( a human being), as well as statues, saints, etc?

No, I believe that most catholics, the everyday ones, though sincere, are deceived.  The blame for this lies with the catholic church.

Bigmac

Ha ha.  I agree that the pope DOES look evil.  I've never said this before to anybody, but I have often thought it!  Amazing.  I'm not saying he IS evil, mind.  

Seriously, I don't think the pope is The Antichrist as such, but that he, along with his 'flock' are seriously deceived by the catholic church.

[Big Mac]

Once again you have no idea what you are talking about. I was briefly a Catholic and we didn't worship the Pope. He is the head of the church. It's just like a Preacher at a church except his flock is international. We also didn't worship statues, we asked for their guidance since they were considered men of God and we're good to tap into their wisdom.

You know what, onlyme, you sound just like Jack Chick.

[MommaSquid]

I was briefly a Catholic and we didn't worship the Pope. He is the head of the church. It's just like a Preacher at a church except his flock is international. We also didn't worship statues, we asked for their guidance since they were considered men of God and we're good to tap into their wisdom.

I was a Roman Catholic for 18 years.  The Pope is considered infallible, meaning he is without sin and cannot make a mistake, but he is not worshipped.  Saints and Mother Mary are prayed to for guidance, not worshipped.

Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity, God in Three Persons, however Jesus is not worshipped.  Only God.

Man, I haven't thought about that shit in a long time.

[Big Mac]

Exactly. Of course any stump-jumping Jethro automatically assumes Catholic worship Mary or the Pope or the Saints. Guidance is not the same as worshipping someone. If you seek guidance from your mom or dad, you aren't worshipping them.

[venomfangx]

I am a La Vey Satanist and you cannot get more atheistic than that.  I think that being an atheist is like going through a valve, or like a door closing.  You either are or you are not.  However, there are variations on a theme, and Satanism is one of those.
Regie Satanas
Ave Satanas
Hail Satan

[G-Roll]

I am a La Vey Satanist and you cannot get more atheistic than that.

how do you figure that? i dont worship the idea or symbolism of a deity.

Hail Satan

however you do look to a deity or the image of one. is this worshipping him all the same? would that be like me not believing in christ yet praying to him?

i think you might have atheism confused with... combating... religion as a whole. An atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in any god or gods or goddesses.  Everything else is purely individual beliefs.

[Whitney]

I am a La Vey Satanist and you cannot get more atheistic than that.  

Lol, I'm sorry but if you think following a strange philosophy that basically just makes fun of Christians makes you an uber atheist you don't know what atheist means.

[venomfangx]

Not sure if you are aware of what you are saying.  I said nothing about making fun of Christians, and neither is it a strange philosophy: with due respect it would seem you do not understand but appear to have pre conceived ideas of what constitutes atheistic satanism.  However, with the comment I made one would not expect anyone to do any research.  We are Satanists who are atheists.  Satan is not some magical mysterious being because as an entity he does not exist any more than God.  He is within us, what Freud called the "Id".  We are quite different to the theistic satanists who are basically devil worshipers. I thought I was a mere atheist until I got seduced by the dark side of the force so to speak.
Cheers

[pinkocommie]

Not sure if you are aware of what you are saying.  I said nothing about making fun of Christians, and neither is it a strange philosophy: with due respect it would seem you do not understand but appear to have pre conceived ideas of what constitutes atheistic satanism.  However, with the comment I made one would not expect anyone to do any research.  We are Satanists who are atheists.  Satan is not some magical mysterious being because as an entity he does not exist any more than God.  He is within us, what Freud called the "Id".  We are quite different to the theistic satanists who are basically devil worshipers. I thought I was a mere atheist until I got seduced by the dark side of the force so to speak.
Cheers

Look, I support your right to let your freak flag fly and I understand the belief that the only real source of power and guidance is the self.  I get it.  The only issue I see with you is that you just seem pretentious.  This comment:

I am a La Vey Satanist and you cannot get more atheistic than that.

is pretentious.  You're not any 'more' of an atheist than anyone else because you prescribe to some dogmatic philosophy outlining the power of the self.  There is no such thing as not believing in something more than someone else.  One you don't believe, you've hit ultimate zero.  When you claim that following some dude and structuring your life around someone else's ideas is somehow more atheistic, you're going to be told to STFU.  It's not a pissing contest.  If you're an atheist, you don't believe in god.  Whatever costume you dress it up as or other crap you choose to tack onto to it is you're own thing.  It has nothing to do with atheism.

[venomfangx]

is this worshipping him all the same?

  Who said anything about worship, not me...think about it.  Satanism is the opposite to Christianity or any religion. If they believe in a supernatural being we don't.  They believe in the supernatural and the spiritual: we think that the only paradise we have is what we make of it ourselves.  Satan represents what the Christians and Muslims and so on refer to as sin, and because we do so much of this sinning, we figure that satan is in us, so hence we are Satanists.  Basically hedonistic atheists.

[venomfangx]

you're going to be told to STFU

by whom.  Who are you to call someone pretentious when you do not know them.  I might tell you to STFU the same way.  Correct it is not a pissing contest as you need an organ for this. The comment I made was in a light hearted way, as many people do not see Satanists as atheists: they see black candles, blood and gore.

When you claim that following some dude

You show ignorance of the situation which is understandable.  We follow no one except our intellect, use what suits us and discard it when it doesn't work.

It has nothing to do with atheism.

This implies that you know all about atheism as though it was some sort of a cult or some set of rigid rules.
This makes you apparently dogmatic no better than some of our religious brothers.  It must be great sitting like a monk in a cell, balancing the right against the wrong, sorting out the ultimate truth, even if it is the denial of God.  Who is following doctrine or dogma: it is not me nor my kind.

[karadan]

If there were billions of people around the world who believed fervently in gnomes, it might change the attitude of atheists somewhat. You might get the atheists who snort in derision whenever the subject is brought up and you might get the atheists who are mindful of the sensibilities of the deluded and are wary to bring up such opposing ideas in the faces of fragile believers.

It is a great question to pose, Whitney, because personally, I just define my lack of belief as atheism. I wouldn't consider myself strong or weak in that belief. It is just a belief. My friends and work colleagues would beg to differ though. To them I'm militant I'm a member of a forum devoted to the subject. I regularly post comments on you tube that some of my friends see. I speak out whenever the subject of religion arises in a social situation and I'm not afraid to air my beliefs and debate them with people of differing opinions. This actually shocks many of my friends even though none of them pay any attention to religion. They are all atheist but they've been brought up to respect religion unquestioningly.

Maybe the view that people can be strong or weak in their atheism is a view held by people who really never give thought to the subject. As far as where I live is concerned, we aren't continually bombarded by religious messages and therefore, don't have as much reactionary views because of it. My friends consider me a strong atheist. I just consider myself atheist with an anti-religious stance.

[venomfangx]

i think you might have atheism confused with... combating... religion as a whole.

Yes religion is seen as the enemy, which is somewhat similar to how Dawkins perceives it as well.
One of our philosophies so to speak is
If someone strikes you on the cheek you smash him in the other without mercy.
Below is just for your interest to bring up discussion which is why I am here.  I am not here to be pretentious or acting wacko but to present atheism from a slightly different perspective.

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth


1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they
want to hear them.
3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go
there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and
without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a
burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it
successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of
magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose
all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject
yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for
your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone
bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.


oops it seems I've gone slightly off topic.  Sorry...just noticed the previous poster was right on.   :crazy:

[pinkocommie]

by whom.  Who are you to call someone pretentious when you do not know them.  I might tell you to STFU the same way.  Correct it is not a pissing contest as you need an organ for this. The comment I made was in a light hearted way, as many people do not see Satanists as atheists: they see black candles, blood and gore.

I didn't call you pretentious, I said you seemed pretentious and I gave you an example of why you were coming off that way.  One guy's humor is another lady's pretension I suppose.    You're taking what I said and making it far far far more complicated than anything I actually expressed, plus you're impressing some wacky religious notions to what I said without really any logical reason to do so.  Here's what I mean -  Atheism = no believe in god.  That's it.  There are no other beliefs or lack of beliefs required for atheism.  None.  You can deny evolution and still be an atheist, you can be a Buddhist, a Satanist, a Jew, or whatever and still be an atheist.  You can reject or accept anything else and still be an atheist because all atheism pertains to is the lack of belief in a god(s).  I'm not trying to say that there's some secret info that I have that you don't, what I'm saying is that I don't understand how anyone could claim to be 'more atheistic' than anyone else when - once you get to the point of a complete disbelief of a god existing in any way - there's really nowhere to go from there.  Do you see what I mean?  I don't see how one could argue that Satanism is more atheistic than someone who simply doesn't believe in god.

I'm not an expert on any religion and I would never claim to be one, but I have read Le Vay and I've read his explanation of black masses and the like and honestly it struck me as ritualized 'worship' of a doctrine which is atheistic IN ADDITION to other philosophies specific to his brand of Satanism.

And, because I feel it's appropriate,