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Strongest argument for atheism?

Started by yodachoda, December 24, 2011, 04:16:27 AM

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Asmodean

Quote from: yodachoda on December 30, 2011, 02:16:17 AM
So this question, "strongest argument for atheism?" is directed toward people who started off assuming God exists before becoming an atheist. 
No-one is born theist, but I can see how after believing something for a long time, it can be difficult to "break the habit".

I imagine if I was asked to accept that the Earth wasn't round, I'd demand proof... Turning one's world view upside-down should not be done on trust alone, those be my two ears.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Crocoduck

I listened to a pretty good podcast this afternoon that dealt with a lot of what we have been talking about in this thread. It was an interview with Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education. It's on the For Good Reason site and the show is produced in association with the James Randi Educational Foundation.


http://www.forgoodreason.org/eugenie_scott_evolution_skepticism_and_atheism
As we all know, the miracle of fishes and loaves is only scientifically explainable through the medium of casseroles
Dobermonster
However some of the jumped up jackasses do need a damn good kicking. Not that they will respond to the kicking but just to show they can be kicked
Some dude in a Tank

yodachoda

Quote from: Asmodean on December 30, 2011, 02:29:39 AM
Quote from: yodachoda on December 30, 2011, 02:16:17 AM
So this question, "strongest argument for atheism?" is directed toward people who started off assuming God exists before becoming an atheist. 
No-one is born theist, but I can see how after believing something for a long time, it can be difficult to "break the habit".

I imagine if I was asked to accept that the Earth wasn't round, I'd demand proof... Turning one's world view upside-down should not be done on trust alone, those be my two ears.

I think I was basically "born theist".  Not literally, but I was taught theism and biblical stories during sunday school from such an early age that I don't even remember a time when I was a kid when I doubted God exists. 

Crocoduck

Quote from: yodachoda on December 30, 2011, 02:58:06 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 30, 2011, 02:29:39 AM
Quote from: yodachoda on December 30, 2011, 02:16:17 AM
So this question, "strongest argument for atheism?" is directed toward people who started off assuming God exists before becoming an atheist. 
No-one is born theist, but I can see how after believing something for a long time, it can be difficult to "break the habit".

I imagine if I was asked to accept that the Earth wasn't round, I'd demand proof... Turning one's world view upside-down should not be done on trust alone, those be my two ears.

I think I was basically "born theist".  Not literally, but I was taught theism and biblical stories during sunday school from such an early age that I don't even remember a time when I was a kid when I doubted God exists. 
My mother used to brag that I when to church 3 days after she brought me home from the hospital.
As we all know, the miracle of fishes and loaves is only scientifically explainable through the medium of casseroles
Dobermonster
However some of the jumped up jackasses do need a damn good kicking. Not that they will respond to the kicking but just to show they can be kicked
Some dude in a Tank

Asmodean

Quote from: Crocoduck on December 30, 2011, 03:22:01 AM
My mother used to brag that I when to church 3 days after she brought me home from the hospital.
...And yet here you are, with a crocoduck avatar.  :P
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Whitney

Quote from: yodachoda on December 30, 2011, 01:56:48 AM
Then I really learned how evolution works, and IMO it's not compatible with a God at all.  The reasons are: (1) It's a stupid way to make life if he exists and guides it.  It's wasteful, cruel, results in suboptimal design, requires mass death, is slow.  And (2) we exist today because of ancient contingent events.  If an asteroid didn't hit Earth to kill off the dinosaurs a few million years ago, then we wouldn't exist today.  Evolution also requires chance, so we are an accident and if we went back 3.8 billion years and did evolution again, we almost certainly wouldn't exist today. 

If we take the Judeo-Christian God...one that is not shy towards blood sacrifices...and imagine that he set up a series of dominos  where he could knock over the first domino that created an evolving chain of events then that's how I see "natural" evolution and God as compatible.  Of course, anytime you invoke the supernatural you have to allow for occasional tinkering...a theist could think that god uses evolution for most life but from time to time performs a miracle or two to make a certain person exist for some kind of plan.   Really, the stars actually being big balls of gasses and not just shiny dots seems like a stronger proof against the human-centered gods (though still not solid)....why make all that extra stuff for no-one?

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: Whitney on December 30, 2011, 03:00:30 PM
why make all that extra stuff for no-one?

I think the scientific community is quite happy with all this "extra stuff".  ;)

Whitney

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on December 30, 2011, 04:13:00 PM
Quote from: Whitney on December 30, 2011, 03:00:30 PM
why make all that extra stuff for no-one?

I think the scientific community is quite happy with all this "extra stuff".  ;)

lol, true

I guess the universe could be considered just a big toy for people to explore, play with, and enjoy.

Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: Whitney on December 30, 2011, 04:17:58 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on December 30, 2011, 04:13:00 PM
Quote from: Whitney on December 30, 2011, 03:00:30 PM
why make all that extra stuff for no-one?

I think the scientific community is quite happy with all this "extra stuff".  ;)

lol, true

I guess the universe could be considered just a big toy for people to explore, play with, and enjoy.

Maybe God likes watching things explode and the universe is like a big action movie to him.  ;D

Guardian85

Quote from: yodachoda on December 30, 2011, 02:16:17 AM
Quote from: Guardian85 on December 29, 2011, 06:28:09 PM
The strongest argument for atheism is simpy that there are no good (read:empirically proven) arguments for deieties.

I can't really relate to this because I was brought up in a religious family.  I lived most of my life believing he exists, and it took a powerful argument to convince me he probably doesn't exist.  So I started out assuming exists, and needed evidence he doesn't.  If you grew up in an irreligious family, it's probably the reverse.  You seem like you grew up in an irreligious family, m i rite?

So this question, "strongest argument for atheism?" is directed toward people who started off assuming God exists before becoming an atheist. 

Well, you shoot yourself in the foot right off the bat, with the assumption that something exists without evidence, but I see what you mean.

If we were to assume the existence of a god, for examle Yahwe, we could ask why he hasn't interracted with the world in any overt way since the iron age.
In the bronze/iron age: Big-ass miracles with floods, raining fire and angels all over the place.
Modern day: Not so much...

Why did he go covert all of a sudden?


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

Twentythree

It depends on who you ask, any major event in the world could be considered a miracle if looking at it through Christ colored lenses. earthquakes in Haiti and Japan, hurricane Katrina, the Arab spring, the death of Gaddafi the terrorist attacks on 9/11. Depending on who you ask all of these things could be interpreted as miracles from god. If we look at the bible as a tome of myths loosely based on history then just imagine what the bible would look like had it been penned in the 20th century. There would have been major wars, plagues, the rise and fall of both great and terrible leaders, revolutions, famine, the end of certain diseases and the birth of modern medicine, the rise of mass communication and information distribution. What a book of myths this would be especially if we assigned a god or gods the responsibility of these actions. Just imagine the pantheon of modern gods:

Manhattanos: The god of war and weapons directly responsible for guiding the invention of naval aircraft carriers and the construction of the alpha weapon the atomic bomb.
Virulius: The goddess of Disease, responsible for plagues of smallpox, diphtheria, cholera and HIV
Vaccinius: The arch rival of Virulius. Once married, Virulius and Vaccinius ruled over the land of microscopic parasites. The worked in tandem to bring justice to the world by brining plagues to populations that did not honor the gods. Jealousy eventually fractured their union and Virulius sought the destruction of mankind. Vaccinius took it upon himself to set right whatever wrongs were caused by his disgruntled and vengeful ex wife, giving man the secrets of cures and vaccines to the plagues designed by the evil Virulius.

The Brothers Seismontous and Tsunamus: Gods of Earthquakes and Tsunamis
Phonisis: Goddess of telecommunications
Broadbandilus: god of High Speed data connections...all hail Broadbandilus, for without him this forum would not be possible!

Guardian85

That is a very interesting thought on the origin of gods. Not to mention quite funny the way you phrase it.

I guess that shows how we have (some of us at least) evolved past this basal need for a "great cause" for our misfortunes.


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

Stevil

If I knew everything before anything happened, I'd be tempted to kill myself as my life would be so boring and tedious.
Do Christians put themselves in god's shoes and try and work out what life would be like for an all knowing, perfect god?
I think it would be horrible.

Guardian85

Quote from: Stevil on December 30, 2011, 08:34:54 PM
If I knew everything before anything happened, I'd be tempted to kill myself as my life would be so boring and tedious.
Do Christians put themselves in god's shoes and try and work out what life would be like for an all knowing, perfect god?
I think it would be horrible.

One of the greatest rushes you kan have is the thrill of understandig, of learning something you did not already know. Breaching the veil of the unknown.
I pity the person who stops looking.


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-