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Why aren't we smarter already? Evolutionary limits on cognition

Started by Tank, December 10, 2011, 04:04:47 PM

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Stevil

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2011, 11:33:45 PM
I just thought i'd throw in a documentary on the Mind's Big Bang.

Between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago, something happened that triggered a creative, technological, and social explosion, that allowed humans to dominate the planet. What forces may have contributed to the emergence of the modern human mind?


Development of sophisticated language maybe?
I do see language as being a constraint on our ability to think and conceive of ideas. We can think beyond language of course but it is a difficult task.

Pharaoh Cat

Leading causes of death among children and adolescents:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001915.htm

Accidents, cancer, homicide, and suicide would seem to be key natural selectors for our species, as these things are killing humans before those humans had a decent shot at procreating.

Intelligence may well be a factor in three of those, albeit in complicated and maybe counter-intuitive ways.  Intelligence of the parents may also be a factor, again in complicated and maybe counter-intuitive ways.
 

"The Logic Elf rewards anyone who thinks logically."  (Jill)

The Magic Pudding

I think brains are arranging themselves differently because of our behaviour, such as computer use as opposed to face to face contact.  People claim a shorter attention span but then epic gaming sessions occur.  The hand I think uses a lot of brain resources and has influenced brain evolution, new tech tools could in some future where survival actually depends on their use, but by then informed selection or manipulation may be more important.  Sorry that's all a bit wishy washy and puddingish.

Tank

Quote from: Stevil on December 18, 2011, 10:57:45 PM
Sorry, just noticed someone has already highlighted the movie Idiocracy.

Why isn't there a delete post button.
It get's abused and buggers up the forum.
When we get to V2 of the software I'll see if it can be enabled based on post count.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

xSilverPhinx

#19
Quote from: Stevil on December 19, 2011, 12:54:34 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2011, 11:33:45 PM
I just thought i'd throw in a documentary on the Mind's Big Bang.

Between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago, something happened that triggered a creative, technological, and social explosion, that allowed humans to dominate the planet. What forces may have contributed to the emergence of the modern human mind?


Development of sophisticated language maybe?

Yes, and especially the emergence of the ability for symbolic thought that preceded it. Art and culture, which are exclusively human.

QuoteI do see language as being a constraint on our ability to think and conceive of ideas. We can think beyond language of course but it is a difficult task.

That's one major argument in favour of bilingualism and polyglotism. ;D I watched this one Horizon: Do you See What I See? (7 minute clip) which shows an interesting experiment showing how people with less words for different colours (and categorizations which we would see as quite different from our own) perform on a categorization test where they're asked to differentiate between a shade of green and blue as two different things - and don't.  

On the flip side, the Saami people native to polar regions have hundred of words for 'snow'.  :o

*Edited to add whole missing piece of a sentence. ::)
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Jose AR

Hello Pharoah Cat
I like your take on the issue; look at current "too young to procreate" deaths and see if any trends are obvious. The reason I mentioned celieac disease and its link with genetically modified foods is that it seems to me that evolution is about differential reproduction. It seems that there is a pop understanding of evolution, that just dying is enough for evolution. With my theory that people must evolve (and I don't attach moral value to 'must') to be able to  digest genetically modified foods, I am saying that large groups of people pass on a mutation that makes the digestion of these foods possible. Maybe the same thing happened to allow for the spread lactose tolerance in parts of europe.

I think the four kinds of death (cancer, accidents, homicide, suicide) are too general in definition to work on evolution. I think suicide is very interesting becuse it often strikes entire generations in isolated, poor communities (canada's native northern communities) and maybe some families avoid it and populate the future of those communities.

I wonder if your idea is being followed up by biologists somewhere and we may yet hear about current trends in human evolution. I think of all the examples in school (the appendix, the pinky, too many teeth) and wonder if they are ongoing. I wonder if the large world population will always act as an evolutionary brake or governor, forever diluting local changes. I wonder if China provides an example for this because smarter, richer, or more corrupt families have more than one child, and potentially more future progeny. And finally I wonder if we have already hit a maximum brain size, limited by the size of women's hips, babies head sizes, ultimate skull size (and unfolding), brain wrinkling (crennalation?), and the blood supply.

Jose AR

Pharaoh Cat

Quote from: Jose AR on December 19, 2011, 03:44:36 PM
I think the four kinds of death (cancer, accidents, homicide, suicide) are too general in definition to work on evolution.

Greater granularity is almost always helpful, I agree.

Quote from: Jose AR on December 19, 2011, 03:44:36 PM
I think suicide is very interesting becuse it often strikes entire generations in isolated, poor communities (canada's native northern communities) and maybe some families avoid it and populate the future of those communities.

Suicide is complicated, of course.  Nevertheless, the number of root causes is finite.  I avoided those root causes, didn't commit suicide as a kid, and thus lived to procreate.  Other people weren't so fortunate.  Natural selection occurred.  All very complex, probably. 

Quote from: Jose AR on December 19, 2011, 03:44:36 PM
I wonder if China provides an example for this because smarter, richer, or more corrupt families have more than one child, and potentially more future progeny.

Certainly an example of natural (maybe some would say artificial) selection in China.

Quote from: Jose AR on December 19, 2011, 03:44:36 PM
And finally I wonder if we have already hit a maximum brain size, limited by the size of women's hips, babies head sizes, ultimate skull size (and unfolding), brain wrinkling (crennalation?), and the blood supply.

We have - until one or several of those factors undergoes mutation in the direction of bigger.  If the mutation is at all widespread, we may witness natural selection, perhaps even sexual selection.
"The Logic Elf rewards anyone who thinks logically."  (Jill)

yepimonfire

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2011, 11:33:45 PM
I just thought i'd throw in a documentary on the Mind's Big Bang.

Between 100,000 and 50,000 years ago, something happened that triggered a creative, technological, and social explosion, that allowed humans to dominate the planet. What forces may have contributed to the emergence of the modern human mind?



this is fascinating.