Disproving the bible?

[Ecurb Noselrub]

if i remember correctly the old testament was supposedly written by moses?

Traditionally, it is the first five books of the Bible (the Torah) that were written by Moses, and then maybe a psalm and some say maybe Job.  I don't think anyone claims that the rest of the OT was written by him.

which of course brings us to the story of moses and how much fact there is to that.

Like other figures in the OT, there may very well have been a Moses figure that provides the historical seed for the story.

then there is also another question especially about the new testament, did jesus actually exist? if so did he actually perform miracles? so far i have yet to find any records of jesus (and even those are mere mentions of it) that aren't written 100 or more years after he died. i also wonder what about the prophecy of the temple being destroyed? i mean, if i remember correctly, it actually was destroyed by rome. (correct me if im wrong, not the greatest history-wise)

Personally, I think there is sufficient evidence to form an opinion that Jesus existed.  That's a long discussion, however.  The earliest extant writings that we have relating to the historical Jesus are the epistles of Paul.  The originals of those were probably written circa 50-65 C.E., or from 20-35 years after the time typically assumed for Jesus' death.  The earliest manuscripts that we have from Paul date much later, but there is a general consensus that he originally wrote at the time I mentioned above, and that we have a good idea what he originally wrote.

With respect to miracles reported in the gospels and in Paul, whether or not to believe in those is, in my opinion, not simply a matter of historical analysis.  It involves one's own personal experience with God. If one has no such experience, there is no reason to believe the miracle accounts.  If a person has what he/she interprets to be such a personal, subjective experience, there is a basis for believing in God, which opens up the possibility of things beyond the normal, such as miracles.

With respect to the destruction of the Temple, that occurred in 70 C.E. when the Roman general Titus sacked Jerusalem.  IMO, the gospel of Mark was written before then, and the earliest prophecy of the Temple's destruction is contained in that book. All of this, of course, is subject to debate.

[squidfetish]

was there a flood? is there any mention of an ark being built?

The biblical flood story is a direct rip from the flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh, where the hero was called Utnapishtim and he was given boatbuilding directions from above etc etc.  The proto-Jews had a sense of mission and naturally wanted to convert other people to their new monotheistic religion.  One way to do this was to take a pre-existing story of a common theme such as a flood and just retell the story with one all-powerful god rather than many argumentative and fractious gods.  The main difference between the stories is that the biblical account is monotheistic (one god) whereas the Gilgamesh story is polytheistic (many gods).  A feature of ancient religion is that the stories told about the gods were pretty much a reflection of human life on the ground, and the gods were written of as being argumentative, selfish, jealous as well as many other human attributes. A key feature if the new proto-judaism was the change to one monolithic, all-knowing, all-good god.  Not surprisingly many of the stories told concerned themes that were of extreme importance to a subsistence lifestyle - flood, famine, war, pestilence etc.
The book of Genesis is full of themes and motifs nicked from pre-existing near-eastern traditions in order to give potential recruits something familiar to hang on to.

[Gawen]

What is the validity of The Odyssey? Or the Iliad? Beowulf?

[Asmodean]

What is the validity of The Odyssey? Or the Iliad? Beowulf?

HEY! Mess not with Beowulf! That DID happen. 

[Gawen]

What is the validity of The Odyssey? Or the Iliad? Beowulf?

HEY! Mess not with Beowulf! That DID happen. 

*chucklin*...as did Troy.

[Sweetdeath]

What is the validity of The Odyssey? Or the Iliad? Beowulf?

HEY! Mess not with Beowulf! That DID happen. 

*chucklin*...as did Troy.

I love Troy!
Paris <3 <3

[yepimonfire]

a few of the random thoughts ive had throughout the day.....

if the new testament and new testament only existed, christianity MIGHT, make a LITTLE bit more sense. the problem here is the old testament god sounds like the new testament satan. since many verses in the bible claim god is unchanging, we here have a problem. the new testament god is a loving, saving, accepting god, of course with strings attached. the god of the new testament also show no favoritism Romans 2:11 "For God does not show favoritism" yet all throughout the old testament, god chooses Israel and only Israel as his chosen people. choosing a certain race or nationality of people is CERTAINLY showing favoristism. "james 1:13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;" now we have exodus 9:12 saying "But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." WHY ON EARTH WOULD GOD MAKE IT HARDER TO SAVE HIS PEOPLE? god wants all men to be saved. " 1 timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7"

wait, if god wants all men to be saved, then why does he not simply just do it? if god is god, and is all powerful, he can do as he pleases. most of our "sins" we commit are simply us following our natural survival instincs, sexual sins such as lust for example. without it, who would ever fall in love with another member of the opposite sex, marry, and have children preserving us as a species? all love, and all procreation, begins with lust and without it, nobody would ever be driven to procreate, marry, etc etc etc. also if i am not mistaken, humans preference as to what kind of partner is most appealing to them is based soley on genetic traits the other person has that mix well with your genetic traits (long explanation, multiple youtube videos and links would have to be provided to prove my point, just google science of attraction, science of sex etc.) which is why i, nor most people of sound mind are sexually attracted to relatives and lust (i.e. physical attraction) is required for this to work correctly. lust is necessary for mankind and all animal life to continue to live on.

matt. 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Do Not Worry

   25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]?
  28 "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

here we have yet another problem. unfortunately, we HAVE to go to work and make money, there is just no way around it, we have to worry about what we will eat, drink, and wear because if we don't, nobody else is going to do it for us. these things are nessecities, we have to have food, clothing, and shelter to survive, the only way to obtain those things is to go out, get a job, and work for them.

" Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them." no, they just get up out of their nest and spend a large part of their day looking for food. all animals do. it just so happens we have developed advanced methods of securing and ensuring we have food through agriculture.

[xSilverPhinx]

" Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them." no, they just get up out of their nest and spend a large part of their day looking for food. all animals do. it just so happens we have developed advanced methods of securing and ensuring we have food through agriculture.

Birds have the good life...never mind actually struggling for their survival, they're well provided for

[Jose AR]

It is not my job to disprove the bible. I don't have to disprove the Iliad, and nobody seems to mind. The bible is literature; and deserves the same status as shakespeare or a harlequin romance.


Jose AR