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Aren’t non-believers supposed to be suffering?

Started by Magdalena, November 05, 2011, 05:02:37 AM

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The Magic Pudding

Quote from: Asmodean on November 07, 2011, 03:59:47 PM
Ah... Right... Gods and Goodness... Eh... I meant, my charity camp. Yes, yes. That's what I meant to say. Who wants an evil lair anyways?! Ridiculous!  ;D

Ah man, didn't you absorb Orwell, just name things for their opposites, Volcano of Despair / Cone of Hope, it's not a lie, everyone there will be hoping they were elsewhere.

Asmodean

 ???

..!

Genius! :-D

Will be my "Prayer Mountain" because there will be a lot of torturing of theists going on in there and those, they pray in such situations, or so I hear...
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Too Few Lions

Quote from: magdalena on November 05, 2011, 05:02:37 AM
I have a few questions, maybe this is the wrong place to ask this, but here it goes....
How do religious people explain all the wonderful things that happen in an atheist life?
I think they call them blessings.
Would they agree that maybe their god loves us and rewards us? But, how is that possible? Aren't non-believers supposed to be suffering because god punishes people like us?
What delusional answer could they possibly have to explain how a person is happy, prosperous and healthy without the grace or will of a god?
I'd go on and ask a further question. Why are a large percentage of non-believers highly educated and intelligent and living in advanced wealthy countries, whereas the majority of believers are poorly educated and live in relative poverty in less advanced countries?

bandit4god

For moderators:  my use of biblical verses below should not be considered prostyletizing or trolling as I'm using them to directly answer the OP

Quote from: magdalena on November 05, 2011, 05:02:37 AM
I have a few questions, maybe this is the wrong place to ask this, but here it goes....
How do religious people explain all the wonderful things that happen in an atheist life?
I think they call them blessings.
Would they agree that maybe their god loves us and rewards us? But, how is that possible? Aren't non-believers supposed to be suffering because god punishes people like us?
What delusional answer could they possibly have to explain how a person is happy, prosperous and healthy without the grace or will of a god?

It's part of the hiddenness and mercy of God.  A "mercenary" world of immediate reward for alignment with God and immediate justice for misalignment with God would be a type of world in which the best forms of righteous acts would not be possible (e.g., acting toward someone in love with no expectation of reward).  And so, Matthew 5:45:  "He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."  Justice delayed is an act of mercy, but this state of things will not last forever.

Quote from: Too Few Lions on November 08, 2011, 01:04:01 PM
I'd go on and ask a further question. Why are a large percentage of non-believers highly educated and intelligent and living in advanced wealthy countries, whereas the majority of believers are poorly educated and live in relative poverty in less advanced countries?

1 Cor 1:21-31
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.  Jews demand sins and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord."

OldGit

Quote from: Too Few LionsI'd go on and ask a further question. Why are a large percentage of non-believers highly educated and intelligent and living in advanced wealthy countries, whereas the majority of believers are poorly educated and live in relative poverty in less advanced countries?

Right!  That used to be very noticeable between the catholic and the protestant countries, too.  Not so much nowadays, now the priests are losing their grip.
The present EU financial crisis is mostly among the PIIGS - Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain.  All the deeply catholic members plus the orthodox one.

Too Few Lions

Quote from: bandit4god on November 08, 2011, 01:41:37 PM
For moderators:  my use of biblical verses below should not be considered prostyletizing or trolling as I'm using them to directly answer the OP

Quote from: Too Few Lions on November 08, 2011, 01:04:01 PM
I'd go on and ask a further question. Why are a large percentage of non-believers highly educated and intelligent and living in advanced wealthy countries, whereas the majority of believers are poorly educated and live in relative poverty in less advanced countries
Quote
1 Cor 1:21-31
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.  Jews demand sins and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord."
hmmm, all you're telling me is what I already knew, that the earliest believers in the Christian god were similar to those today...generally the less intelligent and poorly educated. All the above quote appears to be doing is glorifying ignorance over wisdom, which is something that epitomises the history of Christianity.

bandit4god

Quote from: Too Few Lions on November 08, 2011, 04:40:50 PM
Quote from: bandit4god on November 08, 2011, 01:41:37 PM
For moderators:  my use of biblical verses below should not be considered prostyletizing or trolling as I'm using them to directly answer the OP

Quote from: Too Few Lions on November 08, 2011, 01:04:01 PM
I'd go on and ask a further question. Why are a large percentage of non-believers highly educated and intelligent and living in advanced wealthy countries, whereas the majority of believers are poorly educated and live in relative poverty in less advanced countries
Quote
1 Cor 1:21-31
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.  Jews demand sins and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord."
hmmm, all you're telling me is what I already knew, that the earliest believers in the Christian god were similar to those today...generally the less intelligent and poorly educated. All the above quote appears to be doing is glorifying ignorance over wisdom, which is something that epitomises the history of Christianity.

The weight of the second paragraph centers around the phrase "by human standards".  A bright thread through all accounts of the Christian God is that He often fulfills His purpose by exalting those in low esteem by human standards "so that no one may boast before him".  Contemporary Christians, by and large, do match your description of being among the lowly and unwise by human standards.

"Human standards?  Quite right!  That's the only standard there is!"  Your wager may be right, but it's quite a daring wager indeed.

Too Few Lions

Quote from: bandit4god on November 10, 2011, 11:37:46 PM
Your wager may be right, but it's quite a daring wager indeed.
if I'm making a wager (and I don't think that I or any other atheist are), I consider it a substantially less daring wager than falling asleep each and every night. I actually consider your theological position to be a far more dangerous and daring position than mine. Given the amount of other deities Christianity's proscribed and generally pissed off over the centuries, you have far more to worry about than me if gods actually do exist!

Stevil

A Christian recently told me that Christianity is about finding meaning in suffering and that suffering was a blessing and would make a person better in the afterlife.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Stevil on November 15, 2011, 09:26:45 AM
A Christian recently told me that Christianity is about finding meaning in suffering and that suffering was a blessing and would make a person better in the afterlife.

Well, if you're going to be miserable there might as well be some pay off for it.  What I don't understand, esp. in first world countries, is where are all these miserable people coming from and why are they miserable?  The only thing I can think of is clinical depression, but Xtians represent a very high percentage of human beings in the West and it's just hard to believe that so many people can be clinically depressed. 
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

DeterminedJuliet

Quote from: Stevil on November 15, 2011, 09:26:45 AM
A Christian recently told me that Christianity is about finding meaning in suffering and that suffering was a blessing and would make a person better in the afterlife.

Sounds very Mother Theresa

And yet, I'm willing to bet that most Christians avoid suffering in their day-to-day lives as much as we do. Unless they're flagellants. But I think that went out of fashion, for the most part, some time ago.
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: Stevil on November 15, 2011, 09:26:45 AM
A Christian recently told me that Christianity is about finding meaning in suffering and that suffering was a blessing and would make a person better in the afterlife.

I cringed when I read what some Christian told you.

I found this link on praying for suffering.  It relays how I feel about the subject of praying FOR suffering.  I dare say, it may relay what most Christianity thinks about this.

Xjeepguy

Quote from: Stevil on November 15, 2011, 09:26:45 AM
A Christian recently told me that Christianity is about finding meaning in suffering and that suffering was a blessing and would make a person better in the afterlife.

Cilices for everyone!!!
If I were re-born 1000 times, it would be as an atheist 1000 times. -Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on November 15, 2011, 11:35:11 AM
Well, if you're going to be miserable there might as well be some pay off for it.  What I don't understand, esp. in first world countries, is where are all these miserable people coming from and why are they miserable?  The only thing I can think of is clinical depression, but Xtians represent a very high percentage of human beings in the West and it's just hard to believe that so many people can be clinically depressed. 
Being surrounded by Christians will make you depressed pretty quickly.
"No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low"-John Lennon

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: bandit4god on November 10, 2011, 11:37:46 PM
"Human standards?  Quite right!  That's the only standard there is!"  Your wager may be right, but it's quite a daring wager indeed.

::)

There are variations in wisdom in a species even if there are some types of knowledge that might be out of our reach...


I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey