Surviving the end of the world as we know it?

[Gawen]

I wasn't talking about revolution. Just a collapse. Still, I think it's a good idea for people to become self reliant as much as they can...as much as finances, time and space will allow. Having a good 3 month plus supply of food and the means to cook it...along with various toiletry items would be handy when someone loses their job. A garden and canning are thoughts I'm entertaining.

Yeah, I think it's time for me to become more reliant on myself than reliant on the grocery store.

[xSilverPhinx]

Putting ideas of collapse followed by revolutions aside, I think that

Yeah, I think it's time for me to become more reliant on myself than reliant on the grocery store.

is always a good idea.

However, what do you expect to do, assuming that you do find yourself in that sort of desperate situation, after your supplies are depleted?

[Stevil]

However, what do you expect to do, assuming that you do find yourself in that sort of desperate situation, after your supplies are depleted?

You become entrepeneural, or go to a food bank, or steal, or join a "tribe"

[DeterminedJuliet]

I wasn't talking about revolution. Just a collapse. Still, I think it's a good idea for people to become self reliant as much as they can...as much as finances, time and space will allow. Having a good 3 month plus supply of food and the means to cook it...along with various toiletry items would be handy when someone loses their job. A garden and canning are thoughts I'm entertaining.

Yeah, I think it's time for me to become more reliant on myself than reliant on the grocery store.

I agree, self-sufficiency, in general, is a good thing.

[Gawen]

However, what do you expect to do, assuming that you do find yourself in that sort of desperate situation, after your supplies are depleted?

The idea is to have enough supplies for a year. To have a seed bank to plant a garden that's frozen in the freezer. And an energy source not dependent on petroleum. The LDS people are mandated to have a one year supply of food per person in the family and that includes water and medicine. There are websites from them and all over, and even forums that cater to this.

It has been proven that in a catastrophic state, the population is 3 days away from anarchy. This was seen most recently after Hurricane Katrina. I can't find the source of that, but will try to find it.

The problem with a complete national or, at worst, worldwide socioeconomic collapse is that it will take years to come out of it. The next problem after the collapse is watching out for local or national martial law. When that breaks down, and it will...ya wing it.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

The possibility of a total collapse is real, IMHO.  In that case, anyone who has stockpiled anything will simply be a target for marauding bands of brigands and insanely hungry people.  So I've decided to follow Jesus' advice and not worry about tomorrow.  I can't do a damn thing about it anyway.  I'm enjoying life now.  When the collapse comes, the meek will inherit the earth. 

You might want to stay away from missile silos and large military bases.  They will be targets.  Be prepared to be a hunter-gatherer. Learn to live off the land.  Again, if you stockpile, someone else will simply take it away from you.

[OldGit]

In the case of a total collapse, I suspect that water will be the killer problem long before people die of hunger.  Big cities will become deserts as soon as the pumped water supply breaks down - that will be when the electricity stops.

[wildfire_emissary]

Pyongyang is also a player in this end of the world scenario in Asia. I think they're gunning for Japan's destruction. The US and China are probably the States that keep them at bay for now. I live in forested residential area so I think I'll dig a hole.

I wasn't talking about revolution. Just a collapse. Still, I think it's a good idea for people to become self reliant as much as they can...as much as finances, time and space will allow. Having a good 3 month plus supply of food and the means to cook it...along with various toiletry items would be handy when someone loses their job. A garden and canning are thoughts I'm entertaining.

Yeah, I think it's time for me to become more reliant on myself than reliant on the grocery store.

I agree, self-sufficiency, in general, is a good thing.

We've learned the economic depression of self-sufficiency in the manorial economics during the Dark Ages. Poverty was a common problem on self-sufficient manors. I just don't know whether self-sufficiency will thrive today.

[Siz]

The possibility of a total collapse is real, IMHO.  In that case, anyone who has stockpiled anything will simply be a target for marauding bands of brigands and insanely hungry people.  So I've decided to follow Jesus' advice and not worry about tomorrow.  I can't do a damn thing about it anyway.  I'm enjoying life now.  When the collapse comes, the meek will inherit the earth. 

You have perfectly illustrated my earlier point, Ecurb. Spectacularly irresponsible. Your misguided passivity will seal our fate.

The meek will inherit the earth...and do what with it? They will quickly be trampled by the motivated selfish. I dont suppose the motivated meek will survive too long.

[Gawen]

In the case of a total collapse, I suspect that water will be the killer problem long before people die of hunger.  Big cities will become deserts as soon as the pumped water supply breaks down - that will be when the electricity stops.

It isn't difficult to see how things MIGHT happen. An economic collapse and subsequent social unrest most likely would not happen over night (this is of course not considering a nuclear or biological cause). When things get real bad, though, I can see martial law becoming active to try and keep things running and safe. But when people aren't getting paid or money just doesn't buy what it used to and martial law forces people to work without pay, people will leave in droves from entities such as the military and public works when they are forced to continue working.

The first thing I can see getting worse is sewer. Water can be trucked in. Sewer can't be trucked out.

Ecurb's post will have to wait for lunchtime or after work.

[xSilverPhinx]

We've learned the economic depression of self-sufficiency in the manorial economics during the Dark Ages. Poverty was a common problem on self-sufficient manors. I just don't know whether self-sufficiency will thrive today.

It would be tougher without your own strip of land, I guess (which you would have to learn how to protect from invasion). You'd have to resort to stealing and scavenging.

It isn't difficult to see how things MIGHT happen. An economic collapse and subsequent social unrest most likely would not happen over night (this is of course not considering a nuclear or biological cause).

It's not too difficult actually, and doesn't need anything as drastic as nuclear or biological warfare. Cut all power to major cities and see how long it takes for it's complex sustained structure to undo itself. We're actually incredibly vulnerable

[Gawen]

Ecurb's comment to remain meek and maintain a "no thought for the morrow" frame of mind bolsters Hitchens (and mine) opinion that religion is a poison. Apparently, Ecurb is not as versed with the human condition and human nature; the meek will be the first to go if society collapses.
Meek: enduring injury with patience and without resentment
2: deficient in spirit and courage : submissive
3: not violent or strong

Poisoning minds from poisoned advice to not stand up for yourself, your loved ones, chucking away self-preservation and self reliance is a no-no, yeah, Jesus is a real hero philosopher. He'll learn that when the first gangs (maybe with some known members from his own neighbourhood) come round for food. Of course, they'll not be asking any to politely. And this coming from the same guy in the thread he started saying he believed it is good to be active in society.

SP, you're right. One dirty nuke in any large city will cause chaos for that city and send ripples all the way to Washington that everyone will feel. Wipe out that colossal natural gas rail hub round Denver and send heating costs through the roof and massive shortages for everyone that uses it for heating. A van driving around a metropolitan area spraying anthrax out of canisters...injecting typhiod into water systems. These are all easy, but local or regional catastrophies (unless many people perpetrate a mass attack). 

I'm not thinking as dramatic as that. I'm not even thinking locally, as in Katrina or other natural disasters. A simple and massive worldwide depression with hyper-inflation is what I think has a better chance to happen.

Self preservation is a right to all humans. Relying on local, regional, state, or federal government, adhereing to Jesus' commands of meekness or the mindframe of "I can't do anything about it" to see you through are certainly no ways I would work that out with.

[xSilverPhinx]

I think Jesus' advice only stands in any situation where it's best not to escalate violence, but in survival situations, it won't get anybody very far. Though if you're still not wanting to resort to violence, then it's best to build some strong defensive foundation you can rely on. Maybe starting with energy - simple, primitive movement-to-energy-conversion technology and rechargeable batteries.

(I actually find these post-apocalyptic situations strangely fascinating)

[Crow]

I think the best thing we can learn from our evolution is that humanity works at its peak when banded together. Those that will triumph will be those that stick together, with those that can provide a supply of food and water will be those that gain leadership. Thief's and lone wolves will be the first to go due to the fact that people will be more protective of resources and will deal harsh penalties and be scared of individuals. I don't think life would go back to the hunter gatherer stage of humanity but rather the bronze age small communities.

[xSilverPhinx]

I don't think life would go back to the hunter gatherer stage of humanity but rather the bronze age small communities.

This ^