Confessions of an "ex-apathetist"

[Attila]

@ Attila

At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.

Wow! Not that it should matter. I still think of myself as a teenager with my whole life ahead of me and so much to learn. I also try not to take myself too seriously. 
My only fear is that I'm flying to Leiden next month and this will be the first time I've taken an flight since my pacemaker was installed (I'm a cyborg, you see) and I can't go through the x-ray thing so I have to be groped. Not an experience I'm looking forward to. 
Ciao,
Attila

[Too Few Lions]

@ Attila

At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.

Wow! Not that it should matter. I still think of myself as a teenager with my whole life ahead of me and so much to learn. I also try not to take myself too seriously. 

What a great way to feel about life, I so hope I'm like you in 30 years time (if I'm still alive...)

[Tank]

@ Attila

At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.

Wow! Not that it should matter. I still think of myself as a teenager with my whole life ahead of me and so much to learn. I also try not to take myself too seriously. 
My only fear is that I'm flying to Leiden next month and this will be the first time I've taken an flight since my pacemaker was installed (I'm a cyborg, you see) and I can't go through the x-ray thing so I have to be groped. Not an experience I'm looking forward to. 
Ciao,
Attila

It's not the grope that's the problem but the gender of the groper! This is what I don't get. I think one should be able to choose the gender of the security guard (groper) who pats one down. I'd be far happier with a lady than a bloke and isn't customer satisfaction paramount?

[Attila]

@ Attila

At 69 I think you are currently our most experienced active member. We do get the occasional teenager join up as well so we have a good age spread.

Wow! Not that it should matter. I still think of myself as a teenager with my whole life ahead of me and so much to learn. I also try not to take myself too seriously.  
My only fear is that I'm flying to Leiden next month and this will be the first time I've taken an flight since my pacemaker was installed (I'm a cyborg, you see) and I can't go through the x-ray thing so I have to be groped. Not an experience I'm looking forward to.  
Ciao,
Attila

It's not the grope that's the problem but the gender of the groper! This is what I don't get. I think one should be able to choose the gender of the security guard (groper) who pats one down. I'd be far happier with a lady than a bloke and isn't customer satisfaction paramount?

Hi Tank,
I've come back from the dead, or rather the banned. My research collaborator and close friend happens to be gay. I had a long discussion with him about airport  groping and presented him with a suggestion: think about why men  are chosen to hand search men and women are chosen to do it to other women (hmmm actually I'm only assuming that, can anybody confirm that this is how it's done?). Anyway assuming that's true the assumption is that there should be no sexual undertones to the groping and the default assumption is that everyone is heterosexual. Ok following this line of logic then, as I explained to my friend, gay men must be groped by lesbian women and vice versa and then any sexual connotation thus eliminated. His reaction? he pissed himself laughing. Maybe I'll suggest this idea at the airport airport. I'm crazy enough to do it. Once I got into big trouble at Heathrow for asking if passing my hand luggage through the x-ray machine would harm my pet hamster. They have no sense of humour those people.
Ciao,
Attila

[Tank]

I can confirm that men pet down men and women pat down women at airport security the last time I flew. But I don't see why I shouldn't choose or equally it shouldn't matter who pats down whom. I mean lets face it when in hospital one generally does not choose the gender of one's doctor and there are loads of straight male gynocologists. And I've had my back passage probed by a female doctor and an endoscope passed down my penis by a female technician, while being watched by a mixed bag of students.

[Attila]

I can confirm that men pet down men and women pat down women at airport security the last time I flew. But I don't see why I shouldn't choose or equally it shouldn't matter who pats down whom. I mean lets face it when in hospital one generally does not choose the gender of one's doctor and there are loads of straight male gynocologists. And I've had my back passage probed by a female doctor and an endoscope passed down my penis by a female technician, while being watched by a mixed bag of students.

I agree but if they are going this route then they should follow their own path to its logical conclusion. I'd prefer your system (anyone pats down anyone) but who'd listen to either of us.
ciao,
Attila

[xSilverPhinx]

arrrghh. I am so stupid. Sorry about that.     
Tchau,
Attila

Doesn't matter, just don't ever let the locals here ever catch you confusing them with the northeasterns. They...don't take too well to that sort of thing...

You're a linguist...do you know by any chance if there's any semblance of what could be called grammar to the babblings some call 'speaking in tongues'?

When I was at the University of Toronto (1967-74) I had a colleague named William Samarin. I learned the technical term "glossolalia" for speaking in tongues. He even had tapes of people doing it. You can doubtless find numerous account of it by googling "glossolalia". My own opinion, fwiw, is that glossolalia certainly has patterns but nothing resembling in any way, shape or form, human language. I don't believe that recursion (a formal property common to all human languages) is present in glossolalia. If you want more detailed info let me know.
Tchau,
Attila

That's cool, and a slight disappointment. Glossolalia would be way more interesting if it did. 

[Attila]

That's cool, and a slight disappointment. Glossolalia would be way more interesting if it did. 

Now I'm intrigued. Why? Please explain.
ciao,
Attila

[xSilverPhinx]

That's cool, and a slight disappointment. Glossolalia would be way more interesting if it did. 

Now I'm intrigued. Why? Please explain.
ciao,
Attila

Maybe I'm being overly simplistic, but then if people are generating sort of languages with some grammatical structure then that could suggest that there's something innate to it all, but since it's probably not even associated with the brain region responsible for it, if it exists, then it not having any structure that could be called grammatical doesn't make it any more interesting. It just looks like someone making it all up based on babbling that sound like words.

What intrigued me is that people who do speak in tongues say they loose a sense of control over it, as if it wasn't coming from them. I was just wondering because when you watch videos of people doing that on YouTube, when you aren't laughing at them, it does sound a bit like an ordered string of sounds. Even though very simple.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Yes, I completely agree about the vibes here. Quite fun.   I am 10 years your senior (born March 1942).

You must be pretty close to being the elder statesman around here. Hope I am still coherent at 69 (sometimes I wonder if I am at 59).  I've never been to Brasil - hope to make it soon. (I suppose that anything I do must be relatively soon - that holds double for you!)

[Attila]

That's cool, and a slight disappointment. Glossolalia would be way more interesting if it did. 

Now I'm intrigued. Why? Please explain.
ciao,
Attila

Maybe I'm being overly simplistic, but then if people are generating sort of languages with some grammatical structure then that could suggest that there's something innate to it all,

Not at all. 1. People don't generate language (not in an purposeful way). Languages grow/develop much like sexual organs. But yes indeed the linguistic faculty is innate (or it has been so claimed since the early 60's by Chomsky among others). When you get beneath the superficial differences, it is quite remarkable how the underlying structures of language are so similar. Indeed, this is one of the strongest arguments for innateness -- that there is so little structural difference among languages. Don't worry about vocabulary; it's like a linguistic plug-in, peripheral to the central system.

but since it's probably not even associated with the brain region responsible for it, if it exists, then it not having any structure that could be called grammatical doesn't make it any more interesting. It just looks like someone making it all up based on babbling that sound like words.

I think that that is pretty close to the truth.

What intrigued me is that people who do speak in tongues say they loose a sense of control over it, as if it wasn't coming from them. I was just wondering because when you watch videos of people doing that on YouTube, when you aren't laughing at them, it does sound a bit like an ordered string of sounds Even though very simple..

Again, you're spot on!  It's pretty much "unga unga bunga"  or "haliga schmaliga faliga" or whatever stereotypes they might have about other languages. Here's an abstract of a study on glossolalia that might be of interest http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001
I hope I've been of some use but it's an interesting topic.
ciao,
Attila

[Attila]

Yes, I completely agree about the vibes here. Quite fun.   I am 10 years your senior (born March 1942).

You must be pretty close to being the elder statesman around here. Hope I am still coherent at 69 (sometimes I wonder if I am at 59).  I've never been to Brasil - hope to make it soon. (I suppose that anything I do must be relatively soon - that holds double for you!)

Yo Bruce!
I don't think "elder statesman" suits me. The myth is you get over your youthful exuberance and settle down to a sober, respectable existence with advancing age. It doesn't work that way (at least for me). At least I hope not. Tell if me if I'm wrong.  Any yes, Brasil is great fun (or was) but start out in a place like Belo Horizonte or Porto Alegre (ask xSilverPhinx about it). Avoid touristy areas. Manaus used to be a totally cool place but I think it's fucked up now (what they call "modernised") which is a great loss for humanity.
Above all, have fun    (my main purpose in life)
ciao,
Attila

[xSilverPhinx]

Not at all. 1. People don't generate language (not in an purposeful way). Languages grow/develop much like sexual organs. But yes indeed the linguistic faculty is innate (or it has been so claimed since the early 60's by Chomsky among others). When you get beneath the superficial differences, it is quite remarkable how the underlying structures of language are so similar. Indeed, this is one of the strongest arguments for innateness -- that there is so little structural difference among languages. Don't worry about vocabulary; it's like a linguistic plug-in, peripheral to the central system.

Again, you're spot on!   It's pretty much "unga unga bunga"  or "haliga schmaliga faliga" or whatever stereotypes they might have about other languages. Here's an abstract of a study on glossolalia that might be of interest http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001
I hope I've been of some use but it's an interesting topic.
ciao,
Attila

I think it is an interesting topic. My niece, who is a month over 2, gaining more and more complex conceptualizations, which reflect in her way of speaking. It's something interesting to see unfold.  

[Attila]

Not at all. 1. People don't generate language (not in an purposeful way). Languages grow/develop much like sexual organs. But yes indeed the linguistic faculty is innate (or it has been so claimed since the early 60's by Chomsky among others). When you get beneath the superficial differences, it is quite remarkable how the underlying structures of language are so similar. Indeed, this is one of the strongest arguments for innateness -- that there is so little structural difference among languages. Don't worry about vocabulary; it's like a linguistic plug-in, peripheral to the central system.

Again, you're spot on!   It's pretty much "unga unga bunga"  or "haliga schmaliga faliga" or whatever stereotypes they might have about other languages. Here's an abstract of a study on glossolalia that might be of interest http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1986-17424-001
I hope I've been of some use but it's an interesting topic.
ciao,
Attila

I think it is an interesting topic. My niece, who is a month over 2, gaining more and more complex conceptualizations, which reflect in her way of speaking. It's something interesting to see unfold.  

It could be the topic for you 2nd (3rd? 4th?) PhD thesis. Language acquisition begins around the 2-year mark which is also when the first memories start (at least in my case). There's surely a tie-in between the onset of language and long-term memory.
ciao,
Attila

[xSilverPhinx]

PhD...I don't know what I would do with the thing (I'm a college dropout, having even take a course or two in basic linguistics). I just find these things interesting in their own sake.