my journey: mental reconstruction

[Siz]

Anyway, what I most want to let go of is the notion that I create everything that happens to me. I simply don't believe that any more.

I do not believe in freewill at all. My own perception of our consciousness is that we react in certain ways due to events prior which have effected us on a subconscious level, how we interpret these events is down to our genetic make-up and prior interactions. What we do has nothing to do with freewill we are just reacting to a chain of events. Its hard to put into words as I have never written or spoke about it and is far more complex than the description given.

I thnk your definition of free will is the issue here.

We all start out (genetics aside) as an empty hard-drive ready to be programmed, interfacing with the world through our senses and understanding of language. This starts in the womb. Programming continues throughout life, and we are, to an extent, in control of the programming we subject ourselves to or choose to accept. We are all a product of that programming and it does shape the decisions we make. You have to base your decisions on SOMETHING ('software' of science/religion/fear/neuroses...) however flawed that might be.

So when I say free will, I mean having the option to take decisions entirely unbiased by external influences. You are only limited from within. How much more 'free' would you like your will to be?

[Crow]

I thnk your definition of free will is the issue here.

We all start out (genetics aside) as an empty hard-drive ready to be programmed, interfacing with the world through our senses and understanding of language. This starts in the womb. Programming continues throughout life, and we are, to an extent, in control of the programming we subject ourselves to or choose to accept. We are all a product of that programming and it does shape the decisions we make. You have to base your decisions on SOMETHING ('software' of science/religion/fear/neuroses...) however flawed that might be.

So when I say free will, I mean having the option to take decisions entirely unbiased by external influences. You are only limited from within. How much more 'free' would you like your will to be?

Its a concept that I first came across reading the Tao Te Ching which at first made me think "what a load of shit", but as time has gone on I have started to see patterns in the way people and myself react under curtain circumstances. Also when looking at what circumstances/events prelude an action/decisions I take start to show very interesting patterns. This is what got me into looking at the scientific side to see if any studies had been done in this area.

There was an interesting neurological study done (I will try and find it later as there have been a few) that monitored the conscious and the subconscious when given questions, the questions that were given ranged from the simple to the complex. What the studies found was that the subconscious side of the brain showed the persons answer before the person was aware of what they would say.

However I certainly don't believe that we make any decisions outside of external influences. Its quite an interesting subject really with lots of different arguments.

[Siz]

I thnk your definition of free will is the issue here.

We all start out (genetics aside) as an empty hard-drive ready to be programmed, interfacing with the world through our senses and understanding of language. This starts in the womb. Programming continues throughout life, and we are, to an extent, in control of the programming we subject ourselves to or choose to accept. We are all a product of that programming and it does shape the decisions we make. You have to base your decisions on SOMETHING ('software' of science/religion/fear/neuroses...) however flawed that might be.

So when I say free will, I mean having the option to take decisions entirely unbiased by external influences. You are only limited from within. How much more 'free' would you like your will to be?

However I certainly don't believe that we make any decisions outside of external influences.

Can you clarify what you mean by this sentence.

[xSilverPhinx]

I thnk your definition of free will is the issue here.

We all start out (genetics aside) as an *empty* hard-drive ready to be programmed, interfacing...

Do we?

[Asmodean]

Do we?

Yes... Although our ROM contains a ton of crap at birth, the HD is "empty"

[Crow]

I thnk your definition of free will is the issue here.

We all start out (genetics aside) as an empty hard-drive ready to be programmed, interfacing with the world through our senses and understanding of language. This starts in the womb. Programming continues throughout life, and we are, to an extent, in control of the programming we subject ourselves to or choose to accept. We are all a product of that programming and it does shape the decisions we make. You have to base your decisions on SOMETHING ('software' of science/religion/fear/neuroses...) however flawed that might be.

So when I say free will, I mean having the option to take decisions entirely unbiased by external influences. You are only limited from within. How much more 'free' would you like your will to be?

However I certainly don't believe that we make any decisions outside of external influences.

Can you clarify what you mean by this sentence.

Yeah sure. Basically I think we can only make decisions due to external influences because they shape the way that we think. I'm not saying that we don't think for ourselves more that we react from experience at a subconscious level before we are aware of it, and that the awareness of conscious thought is a manifestation of the subconscious because we have a perception of self.

[Siz]

Basically I think we can only make decisions due to external influences because they shape the way that we think. I'm not saying that we don't think for ourselves more that we react from experience at a subconscious level before we are aware of it...

O.K, agreed. I'd still call this free thought (for all it's 'programming' limitations).