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Riots in London: should police be allowed deadly force?

Started by Sweetdeath, August 08, 2011, 10:47:58 PM

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Tank

[conspiracy] The police, facing budget cuts, set out to provoke a know felon into shooting at them with the intention of killing him in 'self defence' knowing the death of a coloured man would spark violence. The police are then a bit tardy in response to the relatives of the dead man and the family become a focus of a anti-police protest. The police encourage the confrontation,  thus demonstrating the fact that the police budgets can't be cut. [/conspiracy]

At this point no politician could possibly survive pushing through cuts to the police budget.

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Shit there are loads of youths gathered around the clock tower playing medieval instruments badly.
When will this senseless luteing come to an end?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

xSilverPhinx

Riot fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p39ULW_xzUE&feature=feedlik

Seriously if the police are going to nothing except wait for the rioting to dissipate, then they should at least call the army in to block these people.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Munchkin Goddess

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 10, 2011, 09:02:20 PM
Riot fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p39ULW_xzUE&feature=feedlik

Seriously if the police are going to nothing except wait for the rioting to dissipate, then they should at least call the army in to block these people.

Wow, that's ridiculous..... :-/

xSilverPhinx

I don't know, if it's just to occupy and try to dissipate the rioters, the police don't seem able to do their job. They're vastly outnumbered. 
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sweetdeath

The London police are a joke.  This should of been dealt with using gas  and other means of force days ago.  Now thanks to these rioters, dozens of families are homeless!
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Crow

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 10, 2011, 09:02:20 PM
Riot fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p39ULW_xzUE&feature=feedlik

Seriously if the police are going to nothing except wait for the rioting to dissipate, then they should at least call the army in to block these people.

hahaha that link is brilliant

I think the police have taken a much wiser approach to the situation, with the police focus on arresting those involved instead of the usual tactic of aggression which we have seen from past riots inflames the situations. If you look at the current stats of riot related arrests made throughout the UK compared with either the 1981 and 2001 riots the latest figures by far outweigh the other two combined. The majority perspective of the rioters are seen as opportunistic thugs and scum with no sympathy for there actions, unlike other riots in the past which gained sympathy from the public due to there causes.

The approach is still massively flawed, my main problem being that the softer approach has caused the rise of vigilante groups, in some cases with disastrous results and now with the EDL getting involved (which always makes things worse) the police will not only have to deal with rioters but hateful aggressive racist scumbags as well, which from the way channel 4 news was painting the picture may tap into new riots of entirely different reasons (but no other news channel was highlighting this comparison at the time). The riots also highlight that the police have no way of being able to round up large numbers of people in short periods of time without taking more police off the streets, which to me implies they need some sort of mobile lock-ups that can be quickly and effectively filled without a loss to forces on the street.

In riots people are always made homeless, property is always destroyed, and business are always lost, that's the facts of riots. The best thing the police can do is try and reduce the number of deaths and serious injuries as the rest is material, can be rebuilt and is covered by insurance.
Retired member.

xSilverPhinx

I'm not advocating an aggressive us of the army, but the police's strategy, by what is seems is to block the rioters and wait things out. It seems that it's a case of occupying one's own country. I agree that the use of violence will only escalate the situation.

It seems that the police are incapable of doing their job because they're vastly outnumbered. And for some reason they're not using anything as a repellant (if that's still the case).

And vigilante groups are just as bad. There are loads of opportunistic scum among those as well which only make things worse.

(I find these sorts of situations with mobs of brainless buffoons nerve-wrecking. All I think is BLOCK! BLOCK!)
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


DaemonWulf

I think the next logical step would be to use tasers, rubber bullets, gas, etc. to dispel the mobs rather than over-react by sending the military in to do the police's job or mowing people down with automatic weapons when they're not threatening anyone's life directly. Seems police over-reaction started the whole thing, I certainly don't see that situation improving by killing civilians or even waving military-grade weapons at them. From where I sit it looks similar to the situations in the middle east where popular distrust for those in power is boiling over. With the global economic crisis, it doesn't surprise me. Tank, that comment was brilliant. The luteing should definitely be stopped at all costs. 
So I wonder this, as life billows smoke inside my head; this little game where nothing is sure... why would you play by the rules? - Dave Matthews

Evilbeagle

#39
The problem is that probably 95% of the police are not competently trained or qualified to use firearms or tasers.

I would not support any move to allow the use of weapons of any kind other than batons and tear gas by non
firearms-trained police.  >:(

If the situation calls for highly trained officers with weapons and the force doesn't have enough people then it is time
for the deployment of the military.

My reasoning for this is due to the De Menezes case where police officers murdered an innocent police claiming they thought
he was a terrorist and then lied about it afterwards. Well, they would, wouldn't they ?  >:(
England expects every man to heed the old lie: "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

Sweetdeath

Quote from: DaemonWulf on August 26, 2011, 07:38:43 PM
The luteing should definitely be stopped at all costs. 
I'm sorry, but this typo made me laugh so hard.  I pictured a mob of bards, running down the streets, playing songs on their lutes to annoy business owners. xD
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

DaemonWulf

Quote from: Sweetdeath on August 27, 2011, 10:34:03 PM
I'm sorry, but this typo made me laugh so hard.  I pictured a mob of bards, running down the streets, playing songs on their lutes to annoy business owners. xD

No, it was intentional... I was responding to Tank's sillyassedness:

Quote from: Tank on August 10, 2011, 07:20:27 PM
Shit there are loads of youths gathered around the clock tower playing medieval instruments badly.
When will this senseless luteing come to an end?
So I wonder this, as life billows smoke inside my head; this little game where nothing is sure... why would you play by the rules? - Dave Matthews

Sweetdeath


Quote from: DaemonWulf on August 30, 2011, 02:20:20 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on August 27, 2011, 10:34:03 PM
I'm sorry, but this typo made me laugh so hard.  I pictured a mob of bards, running down the streets, playing songs on their lutes to annoy business owners. xD

No, it was intentional... I was responding to Tank's sillyassedness:

Quote from: Tank on August 10, 2011, 07:20:27 PM
Shit there are loads of youths gathered around the clock tower playing medieval instruments badly.
When will this senseless luteing come to an end?

Oooh, ok!

It's still funny anyway xP
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.