Suicide

[DeterminedJuliet]

I work at a veterinary clinic where animal euthanasia is very common and it has helped put me into the pro-assisted suicide camp, for sure. 99% of the time, based on what I have seen, euthanasia comes as a blessing and the alternative is lengthy suffering. If we won't do that to our animal friends, why do we do it to other people? I have given my husband explicit instructions that if I am terminal and have no quality of life left, that I don't want to hang on just for the sake of "hanging on".

As a profession vets have the highest suicide rate in the UK as they can see the advantages and have access to the right equipment. I think doctors come second on the list.

People often talk about a high suicide rate within a profession as a bad thing, but in this case, I don't think it is. Even though I'm pro-assisted suicide, I don't think that I have a "cheapened view" of life. If anything, I have a greater appreciation for the health that I have and the things I am able to do now. I know a lottt of people in this industry who feel the same way.   

[Asmodean]

but anyone who fails at "suicide" is not really serious, but simply wanting attention. (not attention in the simplistic meaning).

How's about the guy who drove a car into a cliff at 90 kilometers per hour with no seat belt on and was thoroughly revived in a hospital..? Not serious, was he..? Or someone who downed a bucket of Valium but couldn't go without subtly saying goodbye to someone... Except that someone "saw the signs" and got all suspicious..?

There is such a thing as rotten luck, you know.

There are people who survive multiple suicide attempts by the skin of their teeth, but not out of lack of will to die as much as out of lack of resources to really do it right.

[Sweetdeath]

Sometimes I feel it's wrong to revive someone who really tried to kill themselves.  It's impossible to know the kind of internal pain a person is going, and if they don't want help, let them be.

No one has controll of my life but me.

[Davin]

If a flavor of Christianity thinks that suicide is a sin, then the person can repent for jumping on their way down and be forgiving for it.

Personally, I think that suicide is a personal decision that other people can give advice on, but should not control just because of their personal views. I don't think it's always a bad thing, and while I may personally object to some of the reason one offs themselves, I would never try to control them (though if I knew them well enough, there would likely be a lot of talking with them if I disagreed with their reasons).

[Sweetdeath]

I agree, Davin. There's nothing wrong with giving your opinion or speaking to someone if they are a loved one.

Ultimately if someone wants to off themselves very badly, there isn't much one can do.
As far as christian views on suicide being a sin-- what the fuck isn't a sin according to them? *rolls eyes*  So I could give a flying rat's ass.

[xSilverPhinx]

I don't really agree, because death is so final. It's not like bad decision you make that can later be remedied or turned into something positive. Once you're gone, you're gone.

I may be biased but I think that any person wanting to off themselves (not counting those who are terminally ill and suffering, there are good arguments in favour of assisted suicide for them) is not sound of mind, and so it's just wrong to let them take their own lives without trying to fix whatever it is that's causing them to want to end it all in the first place.

[Sweetdeath]

I understand death is final, but...  You can't stop someone because you don't want them to.

This world is filthy and disgusting. Many people suffer unimaginable traumas...  They may not be able to live with it anymore.

Are you ok with forcing them to live in constant pain?
Let's say they did seek help, therapy, whatever.
You are not able to tell someone you understand them or life is worth living.  For people of extreme trauma or loss, sometimes it is not.

[xSilverPhinx]

I understand death is final, but...  You can't stop someone because you don't want them to.

This world is filthy and disgusting. Many people suffer unimaginable traumas...  They may not be able to live with it anymore.

Are you ok with forcing them to live in constant pain?
Let's say they did seek help, therapy, whatever.
You are not able to tell someone you understand them or life is worth living.  For people of extreme trauma or loss, sometimes it is not.

No, not forcing them to live in constant pain, but try to end the pain by other means before resorting to the solution which is so final. I can't force anyone to do anything, but I'm basing my views on the assumption that both psychological and physical pain can either be learned how to live with and still live a worthy life, managed or else treated completely, which would mean that they're no longer reasons for wanting to kill oneself.

[Stevil]

I understand death is final, but...  You can't stop someone because you don't want them to.

This world is filthy and disgusting. Many people suffer unimaginable traumas...  They may not be able to live with it anymore.

Are you ok with forcing them to live in constant pain?
Let's say they did seek help, therapy, whatever.
You are not able to tell someone you understand them or life is worth living.  For people of extreme trauma or loss, sometimes it is not.

No, not forcing them to live in constant pain, but try to end the pain by other means before resorting to the solution which is so final. I can't force anyone to do anything, but I'm basing my views on the assumption that both psychological and physical pain can either be learned how to live with and still live a worthy life, managed or else treated completely, which would mean that they're no longer reasons for wanting to kill oneself.

but regardless, people that have failed a suicide require our support, not our judgement.

[Davin]

I don't really agree, because death is so final. It's not like bad decision you make that can later be remedied or turned into something positive. Once you're gone, you're gone.

I may be biased but I think that any person wanting to off themselves (not counting those who are terminally ill and suffering, there are good arguments in favour of assisted suicide for them) is not sound of mind, and so it's just wrong to let them take their own lives without trying to fix whatever it is that's causing them to want to end it all in the first place.

Death is final, but it's also the person's life and choice. Given that the person is of sound mind, not a minor and is not being influenced, I see no problem.

I really don't think it's reasonable to say that someone is not sound of mind by virtue of wanting to kill themselves.

[xSilverPhinx]

I don't really agree, because death is so final. It's not like bad decision you make that can later be remedied or turned into something positive. Once you're gone, you're gone.

I may be biased but I think that any person wanting to off themselves (not counting those who are terminally ill and suffering, there are good arguments in favour of assisted suicide for them) is not sound of mind, and so it's just wrong to let them take their own lives without trying to fix whatever it is that's causing them to want to end it all in the first place.

Death is final, but it's also the person's life and choice. Given that the person is of sound mind, not a minor and is not being influenced, I see no problem.

I really don't think it's reasonable to say that someone is not sound of mind by virtue of wanting to kill themselves.

I agree that it's their life and choice, but depending on the reasons for why they want to kill themselves, I really can't see how most could be considered sound of mind at least during those moments. It depends on their reasons I guess. Depression for instance is not a normal or desired state of mind, but it can be treated. I think that people who want to end it because they're depressed should be discouraged from doing so. Terminal illness and suffering till the close end is a valid reason, and so I support euthanasia.

Edited to clarify.

[Davin]

If I'm bored with life, what can be offered to fix my problem? More of the things I find boring? Something that is kind of different but mostly the same as something else I'm already bored with?

From a personal perspective: Try reading the same book once a week over and over again for ten years. Then imagine that one book is the only form of entertainment available. Do that and then you might understand how boring things can get. How long do I wait while receiving professional help before I finally decide that nothing can reasonably be done? Ten, twenty or thirty years? All the while I'm mentally suffering because I'm trusting the advice of others who think things will get better for me. I'm really trying my best to find things interesting to me, but eventually those sources will run out as well. Do I wait around for the next nifty thing science discovers merely for the few momements of relief that it instills? How many times can I have virtually the same conversations?

If the end result is the same and I don't enjoy anything on the way there, then why should I continue? It seems a lot more rational to skip all the boring stuff that one doesn't enjoy, than trudging through it for no other purpose than to trudge through it in the vain hope that one will eventually enjoy it.

I'm not currently to the point where I'm completely bored, but being on what appears to be the edge, I think I can see how easily I could become completely bored. People have been telling me it will get better for most of my life while it progressively gets worse. So unless something removes my memories, it's only going to get worse from here. I suppose Alzheimer's or senility is something to look forward to if I'm so lucky.

[xSilverPhinx]

If I'm bored with life, what can be offered to fix my problem? More of the things I find boring? Something that is kind of different but mostly the same as something else I'm already bored with?

From a personal perspective: Try reading the same book once a week over and over again for ten years. Then imagine that one book is the only form of entertainment available. Do that and then you might understand how boring things can get. How long do I wait while receiving professional help before I finally decide that nothing can reasonably be done? Ten, twenty or thirty years? All the while I'm mentally suffering because I'm trusting the advice of others who think things will get better for me. I'm really trying my best to find things interesting to me, but eventually those sources will run out as well. Do I wait around for the next nifty thing science discovers merely for the few momements of relief that it instills? How many times can I have virtually the same conversations?

If the end result is the same and I don't enjoy anything on the way there, then why should I continue? It seems a lot more rational to skip all the boring stuff that one doesn't enjoy, than trudging through it for no other purpose than to trudge through it in the vain hope that one will eventually enjoy it.

I'm not currently to the point where I'm completely bored, but being on what appears to be the edge, I think I can see how easily I could become completely bored. People have been telling me it will get better for most of my life while it progressively gets worse. So unless something removes my memories, it's only going to get worse from here. I suppose Alzheimer's or senility is something to look forward to if I'm so lucky.

Sorry, it's perspective I don't really understand, because I've never been there. I may be saying what looks like complete nonsense to those who have. But to me even those who are bored can find sufficient good reasons to stick around. I don't know.

[Sweetdeath]

Suicide doesn't seem to bother me as much as it bothers you, Silver.

I did have a friend back in 2005 who did kill himself. He hung himself in his bedroom.  He was serverly depressed, and had a terrible eating disorder.

Was I sad he died? Yes, very.  But the way his life was... I'm happy for him.  Happy his struggle is over.  I never got angry, never held it against him..

So, yeah. He's gone, but it's okay. Suicide is okay.  I don't encourage it, but I dont hold it against anyone either.

[Medusa]

Suicide doesn't seem to bother me as much as it bothers you, Silver.

I did have a friend back in 2005 who did kill himself. He hung himself in his bedroom.  He was serverly depressed, and had a terrible eating disorder.

Was I sad he died? Yes, very.  But the way his life was... I'm happy for him.  Happy his struggle is over.  I never got angry, never held it against him..

So, yeah. He's gone, but it's okay. Suicide is okay.  I don't encourage it, but I dont hold it against anyone either.

That's so sad. I had a neighbor in my apartment complex (back in the day) shoot himself on 4th of July. He figured no one would notice the shotgun. Me and my gf at the time offered to go in and help clean up the mess he left. It was a room full of grey matter and blood.

I think that people who want to end it because they're depressed should be discouraged from doing so.

I agree 100%