Christianity: Fire/volcano Cult?

[TheJackel]

Part 1:

You really want to understand the bible? Read it carefully, it's what I have come to consider a fire/volcano cult.  Fire is regarded as divine, and that which holds the spirit of GOD. Yahweh was a War GOD, a volcano, or also known as the "Devouring fire". You can reference this:

First, lets really take a look at what Yahweh is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euG-7q3Jg8c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6dDesUPkMo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlqLU_tYx7A&feature=related

MT Sinai is the mountain of GOD.. Yahweh is the GOD of war to which is referred to as the "devouring fire", and the "God of the Armies". However El Shaddai came before Yahweh, and it means "God of the Mountains", And "God Almighty". In that Era it was dually used. And the Shin " ש " to which is the Hebrew alphabet letter for fire is also another name for GOD. This is where El Shaddai comes from, and it's relationship with the "God of the Mountains", and "God Almighty". Also The root word "shadad" (שדד) means "to overpower" or "to destroy". This would also give Shaddai the meaning of "destroyer" to which contains the Hebrew letter for fire.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_3Jp_MyONBcC&pg=PA14&lpg=PA14&dq=God+is+the+eternal+flame&source=bl&ots=CuyX8lBrf_&sig=259u0YLorrueuBHmc7Y-ilpge_I&hl=en&ei=zVe6TbbUENK2tgfghbDPAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAzge#v=onepage&q=God%20is%20the%20eternal%20flame&f=false

Wiki:

   Shin also stands for the word Shaddai, a name for God. Because of this, a kohen (priest) forms the letter Shin with his hands as he recites the Priestly Blessing.

   The letter Shin is often inscribed on the case containing a mezuzah, a scroll of parchment with Biblical text written on it. The text contained in the mezuzah is the Shema Yisrael prayer, which calls the Israelites to love their God with all their heart, soul and strength. The mezuzah is situated upon all the doorframes in a home or establishment. Sometimes the whole word Shaddai will be written.

Yahweh However also means "God of the armies". The God that delivered the Israel people from Egypt. But this GOD is also a Fire / Volcano type of GOD, and This is found in Genesis 12 in regards to the story of Abraham. At this point Yahweh became the main god of worship for some time:

Exudus 18:11 "Now I know that Yahweh is Greater than All other GODS"

But after war and arriving in the promised land, the Hebrews began once again to worship Baal and Asherah as they began to prosper in peace. And since they no longer needed help in war, Yahweh simply just became just one of the other GODS.. The cult of Yahweh almost became extinct in around 597 - 538 BC after it was officially established as the GOD of Judah. This is the same time the Hebrews were exiled to Babylon when the Temple was destroyed. The GODs of this era were associated with territories of land, and after their defeat you get this:

Psalm 137:4 How can we sing the song of Yahweh when in a foreign land?

Thus If it weren't for The Second Isaiah, the cult of Yahweh would have gone extinct, and Christianity today would look very different today, or not even exist at all. This is the point where Monotheism really begins to hold and take root. The cult of Yahweh is where Jesus and Moses come from. So in regards to the Second Isaiah, this is where you finally get actual monotheism :

* Isaiah 44:6 "I am the first and I am the last. Besides me, there is no GOD"

So in understanding the above, we come to another key thing to note. All the different names for GOD is that they are all the same GOD. In Exodus 6:2-3 states that Yahweh, Elohim, El Elyon (GOD Most High), and El Shaddai are stated as being the same GOD.

 

Exodus 6:2

   2 God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD.

   Exodus 6:3

   3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty,[a] but by my name the LORD I did not make myself fully known to them.

   Exodus 6:3 Hebrew El-Shaddai
   Exodus 6:3 See note at 3:15.

This is stating that they are just different names for the same GOD... It's where monotheism solidifies, and parts away from it's polytheistic roots and smashes all the supposed false Idols including Yahweh's wife Asherah. This is also where women are seen weak and should obey the will of man. So what all this means is that Judaism and Christianity were born from a volcano/fire cult to which came from their polytheistic roots. These Yahwehists are those who worshiped a Volcano / fire GOD as the most powerful of all GODs, and a symbol of mans Power. Volcanoes made the other GODS such as Baal and Asheren look weak. So they look to a GOD that shows them strength, and Power. And it's no wonder why they had worshiped one as a fire GOD of the armies, a destroyer ect. So let's take a much closer look at this shall we?

Exudos:

* Exodus13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

   * Exodus 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

  * 12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death.

  * 16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

   * 18 And mount Sinai (the real MT Sinai and city of sodom likely existed in Jordan) was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Some will say the Bible doesn't mention the word "Volcano" but lets examine why that is with the Last Exudos quote (pay close attention to "Noise of the Tumpet" "Thunderings, and Lightnings"):

* Exodus 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

His description is that of a volcano..But they didn't have the word Volcano back then to use for a description.. And this is why:

'Volcano' comes from the roman god of blacksmiths and fire, Vulcan. When a volcano erupted in Roman times, the people explained it as Vulcan being angry, and hitting the anvil in his forgery (the volcano) with extra strength, sending up the sparks.

And in these types of Vulcano/fire Cults, the thunderous noises, and lightnings coming from the mountains were considered the "Voice of GOD" as noted in the following link below.. And it's amazing how that directly relates to Moses's description of GOD, and how GOD speaks to him. And of course a supportive link to go along with it:

http://books.google.com/books?id=KnIYRi3upbEC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=term+vulcan+in+the+bible&source=bl&ots=b9Dnh1jA_i&sig=_QWkxSVSbzujBygm225sI-HE0To&hl=en&ei=sFauTcHeOMPcgQey8ImRDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=term%20vulcan%20in%20the%20bible&f=false

Thus even though the term "Volcano" is not in the Bible, the term Mountain is good enough. Describing a volcano and calling it GOD is all I really require out of that. But let's continue on to the Deuteronomy, Psalm, and other sources shall we?

Deuteronomy:

   * Deuteronomy 4:11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.

   * Deuteronomy 12:2 Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree

  * Deuteronomy 5:23 And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;

Psalm:

* 6 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.

  * 7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.

   * 8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.

   * 13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.

   * 14 Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.

   * Psalms 97:1-5: "The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof. 2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. 3A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. 4 His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. 5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth."

   * Psalm 50:3: God appears as a devouring fire, round about him a mighty tempest

Supporting evidence from Qur'an:

Qur'an 26:176-189

   The dwellers of Al-Aiyka [near Madyan (Midian)] belied the Messengers.

   When Shu'aib (Shuaib) said to them: "Will you not fear Allah (and obey Him)?

   "I am a trustworthy Messenger to you.

   "So fear Allah, keep your duty to Him, and obey me.

   "No reward do I ask of you for it (my Message of Islamic Monotheism), my reward is only from the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).

   "Give full measure, and cause no loss (to others).

   "And weigh with the true and straight balance.

   "And defraud not people by reducing their things, nor do evil, making corruption and mischief in the land.

   "And fear Him Who created you and the generations of the men of old."

   They said: "You are only one of those bewitched!

   "You are but a human being like us and verily, we think that you are one of the liars!

   "So cause a piece of the heaven to fall on us, if you are of the truthful!"

   He said: "My Lord is the Best Knower of what you do."

   But they belied him, so the torment of the day of shadow (a gloomy cloud) seized them, indeed that was the torment of a Great Day.

Tafsir al-Jalalayn 26:189

   But they denied him, so they were seized by the chastisement of the day of the shade (al-zulla) — a cloud which gave them shade when they suffered a bout of extreme heat but which then rained down fire on them and they were incinerated. Assuredly it was the chastisement of a tremendous day.

--

[TheJackel]

Part 2:

Now lets reference hell in the Bible:

* Mark 9:48 "where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched"

    * Revelation 14:10 "he will be tormented with fire and brimstone"

    * Revelation 14:11 "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night"
    * Revelation 20:14 "This is the second death, the lake of fire"

    * The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."

    * In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

    * In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

    * Revelation 20:15 "If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire"

    * Numbers 16:32-33: And THE EARTH OPENED HER MOUTH, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive INTO THE PIT, and the EARTH CLOSED UPON THEM

You can also Read this book here if it interests you:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0rA-9UPxCZMC&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=theologians+and+the+Christian+volcano+cult&source=bl&ots=VYHJoj_LF3&sig=hYGszdI9oUxxb8gNVLogmxQ1sBE&hl=en&ei=SKWzTY_NPMfngQfE2cW4CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

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Part 3:

Let's take a closer look that the Deuteronomy:

    * Deuteronomy 4:11:

New International Version (©1984)
    You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness.

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    "You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, while flames from the mountain shot into the sky. The mountain was shrouded in black clouds and deep darkness.

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    And you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, while the mountain burned with fire to the heart of heaven, wrapped in darkness, cloud, and gloom.

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    "You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the very heart of the heavens: darkness, cloud and thick gloom.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    So you came and stood at the foot of the mountain, which was on fire with flames shooting into the sky. It was dark, cloudy, and gloomy.

    King James Bible
    And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.

    American King James Version
    And you came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire to the middle of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.

    American Standard Version
    And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the heart of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness.

    Bible in Basic English
    And you came near, waiting at the foot of the mountain; and flames of fire went up from the mountain to the heart of heaven, with dark clouds, and all was black as night.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    And you came to the foot of the mount, which burned even unto heaven: and there was darkness, and a cloud and obscurity in it.

    Darby Bible Translation
    And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire to the heart of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and obscurity.

    English Revised Version
    And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the heart of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.

    World English Bible
    You came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire to the heart of the sky, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness.

    Young's Literal Translation
    and ye draw near and stand under the mountain, and the mountain is burning with fire unto the heart of the heavens -- darkness, cloud, yea, thick darkness

* Deuteronomy 5:23

And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, for the mountain did burn with fire, that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;

* Deuteronomy 12:2

Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:

    * 9 But take care and watch yourselves closely, so as neither to forget the things that your eyes have seen nor to let them slip from your mind all the days of your life; make them known to your children and your children's children— 10 how you once stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when the Lord said to me, "Assemble the people for me, and I will let them hear my words, so that they may learn to fear me as long as they live on the earth, and may teach their children so"; 11 you approached and stood at the foot of the mountain while the mountain was blazing up to the very heavens, shrouded in dark clouds. 12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.

    * 23 So be careful not to forget the covenant that the Lord your God made with you, and not to make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything that the Lord your God has forbidden you. 24 For the Lord your God is a devouring fire, a jealous God.

Interesting reference to Egypt:

    * 19 And when you look up to the heavens and see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, do not be led astray and bow down to them and serve them, things that the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples everywhere under heaven. 20 But the Lord has taken you and brought you out of the iron-smelter, out of Egypt, to become a people of his very own possession, as you are now.

    * 33 Has any people ever heard the voice of a god speaking out of a fire, as you have heard, and lived? 34 Or has any god ever attempted to go and take a nation for himself from the midst of another nation, by trials, by signs and wonders, by war, by a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, and by terrifying displays of power, as the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your very eyes? 35 To you it was shown so that you would acknowledge that the Lord is God; there is no other besides him. 36 From heaven he made you hear his voice to discipline you. On earth he showed you his great fire, while you heard his words coming out of the fire.

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Part 4:

How about some other sources:

* From Micah 1:4: "And the mountains shall be melted under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, as waters that are poured down a steep place."

    * Judges 5:5 The mountains melted from before the LORD, even that Sinai from before the LORD God of Israel.

    * Ezekiel 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

    * Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

    * Hosea 4:13 They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof is good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery.

    * Kings (19.: There on the mountain, Yahweh passed by in wind, earthquake, and fire

Zechariah Chapter 2

5 For I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

Corinthians Chapter 3

    13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Matthew Chapter 3

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

It's clearly a Volcano/Fire religion/cult. And it's the same cult in which you have gotten your 10 commandments from. This is a pretty damn good video of GOD is mostly described as in the bible:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/142851/abc-world-news-with-diane-sawyer-act-of-god-grounds-flights-across-the-globe

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Part 5:


Curious about disease, famine, pesty insects ect?.. Well, that all relates to Volcanic Activity and it's aftermath as well:

1. (exodus 7:14–25˄) water turned to blood killing all fish and other water life. (Dam)

http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/earth_news/2006/05/elaine_meinel_s.html
http://scientopia.org/blogs/thisscientificlife/2006/05/30/seeing-red-the-lake-atop-a-vanuatu-volcano/

    2. (exodus 8:1–8:15˄) frogs (Tsifardeah)
    3. (exodus 8:16–19˄) lice (Kinim)
    4. (exodus 8:20–30˄) flies (Arov)
    5. (exodus 9:1–7˄) disease on livestock (Dever)
    6. (exodus 9:8–12˄) unhealable boils (Shkhin)
    7. (exodus 9:13–35˄) hail and thunder (Barad)
    8. (exodus 10:1–20˄) locusts (Arbeh)
    9. (exodus 10:21–29˄) darkness (Choshech)
    10. (exodus 11˄,12˄) death of the first-born of all humans and animals who do not have marked doorposts. (Makat b'chorot)

http://www.africanews.com/site/DRC_Volcanic_eruptions_lead_to_disease_outbreak/list_messages/29104

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/volcanoes/facts.asp

[xSilverPhinx]

I find this to be interesting, thanks for the links (definitely going to have a look at them later)

Yahweh really does look like a god of war, maybe that's one reason why it was so sucessful.

[Crow]

I think this hits on some accurate points but I have a few apprehensions about the theory as there isn't enough evidence. Mainly concerning the supposed date of Moses and the appearance of the name Yahweh in the Canaanite pantheon. Also practically all the stories of Moses have hardly any evidence in favor and those that do don't fit together in the correct timeline.

I find the Hebrew characters that make up El Shaddai is very interesting, I think this is the strongest part of the theory and explains the aggressiveness depicted within the older books. it also reminds me of how the Japanese language works in kanji for names, certain names can have different underlying meanings depending upon the kanji used, for example Haruka is pronounced the same but has three different meanings:　遥 - far/distant,　春花 - spring flower,　晴香 - clear fragrance. I don't speak or read Hebrew but it would be interesting to know if the language works in a similar way.

Something I just realised whilst looking at the evidence of the Canaanite society is that the combination of monolatry religious structure and the shepherd livelihood makes perfect sense for the evolution from polytheism into monotheism. Looking at the monotheistic god as 'the great shepherd in the sky' rather than the 'man in the sky' or 'cctv in the sky' it makes total sense that a society that was almost solely dependent on the ability to farm sheep accepted such a notion. They created a god that was relevant and relative to the people of the time and more so than any other god that came before.

[Gawen]

It's late right now and I haven't everything yet. But I'm stopping here because of this:

This is stating that they are just different names for the same GOD... It's where monotheism solidifies, and parts away from it's polytheistic roots and smashes all the supposed false Idols including Yahweh's wife Asherah, the god of fertility.

In the back of my head, this isn't quite correct....unless I'm not thinking straight, which is probably the case. I'll do a bit of research, I've got some stuff about this buried in the computer. Might take a bit to extract.

But what I've read so far looks good. I've thought for some years now that Yahweh was considered a mountain/war god. I never really added the 'fire' aspect to it because from what I understand is that Sinai was prone to eruptions in those times anyway. But 'fire' does add one more aspect.

[TheJackel]

I think this hits on some accurate points but I have a few apprehensions about the theory as there isn't enough evidence. Mainly concerning the supposed date of Moses and the appearance of the name Yahweh in the Canaanite pantheon. Also practically all the stories of Moses have hardly any evidence in favor and those that do don't fit together in the correct timeline.

I would agree to much of that. However, it makes little difference if mosses was real, or even if MT Sinia existed. It's the premise of the religion as written. Christianity as of today did indeed come from religions much older than itself, and did come from polytheism. It's quite obvious that it wasn't always a fire/volcano cult, it's a matter of when did it begin to develop into one? So I will try to address the following post as well as yours:

In the back of my head, this isn't quite correct....unless I'm not thinking straight, which is probably the case. I'll do a bit of research, I've got some stuff about this buried in the computer. Might take a bit to extract.

Among the Canaanite GOD's 3 were of importance to shaping what would become Christianity. The one in Particular is El Elyon, which means "GOD most high" The other two main GOD's are Asherah, and Baal. Asherah was El Elyon's wife to which whom was also noted as Yahweh's wife. This here is one of the first links between Yahweh and El Elyon as the same GOD. You also had Baal who was GOD of storms and fertility. The connection between these GOD's is found in the story of Abraham, the story where El Shaddai comes into play in Genesis 12. Abraham worshiped this GOD, and had a deep connection with it in the Bible.  This is the "GOD OF THE MOUNTAINS", and the GOD of Christianity "Almighty GOD". This GOD relates to El Elyon to which of course meant "God Most High". El Shaddia is one of the names for the Canaanite GOD El Elyon.This means El Elyon was a Mountain, and likely a Volcano.  Abraham's descendent Jacob makes El Elyon his Elohim, this term meant that Jacob was making El Elyon his primary GOD of worship.  But this was still before Yahweh, and still in a time period of polytheism. Because using the term "Elohim" means he still believed in more than one GOD, but with the exception of El Elyon being placed as his main GOD, or as a Father figure to the other GOD's.  Adam and Jacob were thus still technically Pagans.  

Now where El Elyon begins to fade in the Hebrew text is with the introduction of Exudus. This is where El Elyon is replaced with Yahweh. This is where Moses comes into play, where you get the 10 commandments, and Jesus ect.. But what this means is that El Elyon, El Shaddia, and Yahweh were all the same GOD. A volcano/fire GOD, a GOD of the Mountains, the God Almighty, The GOD most high, and finally the GOD of the Armies "the devouring fire". ect..

[Gawen]

Ok. We know that way back then, there were a myriad of gods. There were personal gods, familial gods, tribal gods, regional gods, weather gods, etc, etc, etc. It is known that there could be a dozen or more god figures around an alter (of sorts) in any particular household. When seen in this light, one can see rather plainly, or at least there's no leap of faith or logic that many of the names of THE GOD could be actually be those of many gods, such as the list below.

Ēl, ('Ĕlōhîm when used in the singular) and Yahweh are understood to mean the same God in Jewish theology. Other gods exist or do not exist and/or are insignificant. El shows up about 200 times. El is the simple and generic word for the gods...any gods. It is often combined with other words for descriptive emphasis. Wiki says, "In the P strand, YHVH says in Exodus 6.2–3: I revealed myself to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as Ēl Shaddāi, but was not known to them by my name, Yahweh.
This suggests the identity of Yahweh with either Ēl, in his aspect of Shaddāi, or with a an entirely different god called Shaddāi. Also suggested is that the name Yahweh is a more recent revelation."
Some examples:
El HaNe'eman - The Faithful God: (Deuteronomy 7:9).
El HaGadol - The Great God: (Deuteronomy 10:17).
El HaKadosh - The Holy God: (Isaiah 5:16).
El Yisrael - The God Of Israel: (Psalm 68:35).
El HaShamayim - The God Of The Heavens: (Psalm 136:26).
El De'ot - The God Of Knowledge: (1 Samuel 2:3).
El Emet - The God Of Truth: (Psalm 31:6).
El Yeshuati - The God Of My Salvation: (Isaiah 12:2).
El Elyon - The Most High God: (Genesis 14:18).
Immanu El - God Is With Us: (Isaiah 7:14).
El Olam - The God Of Eternity (Genesis 21:33).
El Echad - The One God: (Malachi 2:10).

Elohim (or Elohay) is used more than 2,300 times. Elohim is a Hebrew root word meaning "strength" or "power" and can be singular or plural. Elohim can be combined with other names. Some examples:
Elohay Kedem - God of the Beginning: (Deuteronomy 33:27).
Elohay Mishpat - God Of Justice: (Isaiah 30:18).
Elohay Selichot - God Of Forgiveness: (Nehemiah 9:17).
Elohay Marom - God Of Heights: (Micah 6:6).
Elohay Mikarov - God Who Is Near: (Jeremiah 23:23).
Elohay Mauzi - God Of My Strength: (Psalm 43:2).
Elohay Tehilati - God Of My Praise: (Psalm 109:1).
Elohay Yishi - God Of My Salvation: (Psalm 18:46).
Elohim Kedoshim - Holy God: (Leviticus 19:2, Joshua 24:19).
Elohim Chaiyim - Living God: (Jeremiah 10:10).
Elohay Elohim - God Of Gods: (Deuteronomy 10:17).
Psalms 44.20;81.9 (Hebrew 44.21;81.10), Deuteronomy 32.12 and Malachi 2.11 show that El is used for foreign gods.

Elah is used around 70 times. Again, when combined with other words, we see different attributes of one God or other gods. Some examples:
Elah Yerush'lem - God of Jerusalem: (Ezra 7:19).
Elah Yisrael - God of Israel: (Ezra 5:1).
Elah Sh'maya - God of Heaven: (Ezra 7:23).
Elah Sh'maya V'Arah - God of Heaven and Earth: (Ezra 5:11).

YHWH is the third person singular imperfect of the verb "to be". What the Jews believe (and would have others believe), the meaning, is therefore, "He is". This definition somewhat agrees with the meaning of the name in Exodus 3:14 and using the first person — "I am". But this line of reasoning stems from Hebrew theology of monotheism that God exists by himself for himself, and is independent of any concept, force, or entity; therefore "I am that I am"...and it makes no sense. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" conflicts with this. Of course, William Tyndale mucks this all up with his English translation.

Jews also call God "Adonai", meaning "Lord". Formally, this is plural ("my Lords"), but the plural is usually meant or seen as as respectful, and not a syntactic plural. The singular form of Adoni, "my lord" was used by the Phoenicians for the god Tammuz. 

It's a good try Jackel, but I really don't think anyone can reasonably connect several thousand El's, Elah's, etc and come up with one God or they are the same god.

[TheJackel]

It's a good try Jackel, but I really don't think anyone can reasonably connect several thousand El's, Elah's, etc and come up with one God or they are the same god.

Actually my position still stands.. Much of what you posted are considered in accordance to what they believed were attributes of their GOD. However, their main description of the GOD is a Fire / volcano GOD. The holy GHOST or spirit is said to be contained in the flame. In fact the unquenchable fire and the ever burning flame are where you get the notion that this supposed god is Eternal.. The ever lasting fire.  Even I can call a Volcano The All Knowing GOD ect.. But the main ones you need to pay attention to are the ones that pertain to it's actual visual description.

Elohim (or Elohay) is used more than 2,300 times. Elohim is a Hebrew root word meaning "strength" or "power" and can be singular or plural. Elohim can be combined with other names.

I know this, but that doesn't change the context in which it's referred to.  However, this is about as good as the argument gets:

YHWH is the third person singular imperfect of the verb "to be". What the Jews believe (and would have others believe), the meaning, is therefore, "He is". This definition somewhat agrees with the meaning of the name in Exodus 3:14 and using the first person — "I am". But this line of reasoning stems from Hebrew theology of monotheism that God exists by himself for himself, and is independent of any concept, force, or entity; therefore "I am that I am"...and it makes no sense. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" conflicts with this. Of course, William Tyndale mucks this all up with his English translation.

This would be great, except for the fact that the GOD is more directly described as a Volcano/fire GOD. Any names you find in Exodus will be in direct relation to Mt Sinai, The described GOD by Moses. It's not going to make the description go away, to which makes far more logical sense than suggesting we can jump around in different names that can lead to different concepts of what the god is. Yes, I agree with your assessment above in that quote, but that really doesn't have anything to do with determining if the GOD is a fire/Volcano GOD..  William Tyndale does muck up the translation, but it's not relevant to the subject. Moses heard a voice from what? A flame / volcano.. :/ Also, Mt Sinai is often referred to as the mountain of GOD. And if you skip to Exodus 18, you come across where they talk about sacrifices to their GOD, to which are usually burnt offerings.

18 "The elders of Israel will listen to you. Then you and the elders are to go to the king of Egypt and say to him, 'The LORD, the God of the Hebrews, has met with us. Let us take a three-day journey into the wilderness to offer sacrifices to the LORD our God.'

Thus you often get verses such as:

14 Then the LORD's anger burned against Moses and he said, "What about your brother, Aaron the Levite? I know he can speak well. He is already on his way to meet you, and he will be glad to see you.

And in exudos the lord is always sighted at being at the mountain of GOD.. And thus you get things like:

22 Moses returned to the LORD and said, "Why, Lord, why have you brought trouble on this people? Is this why you sent me?

Exodus 3:12 And God said, "I will be with you. And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you will worship God on this mountain."

Exodus 18:5
Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, together with Moses' sons and wife, came to him in the wilderness, where he was camped near the mountain of God.

Exodus 19:3
Then Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain and said, "This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel:

Exodus 19:17
Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.

--------

Not only are the offerings to this GOD burnt offerings, so are the sacrifices made in the GOD's name by either VOW or by the GOD's own supposed command. And you can take these references for instance:

Jephthah Burns His Daughter

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin.

Or you have:

* Mark 9:48 "where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched"

   * Revelation 14:10 "he will be tormented with fire and brimstone"

   * 29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

   * Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are.] And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

   * In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

   * Thessalonians 1:7-9 The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

And then put those quoted verses above into context with:

MATTHEW 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One(God) who can destroy both soul and body in hell."(4)

Or this nice little quote from someone else (I don't remember where I got it):

Fire is also figuratively used of Yahweh's glory (Dan 7:9), of His holiness (Isa. 33:14), of His protection of His people (2 Kings 6:17; Zec. 2:5), of His jealousy for His sole worship (Deut. 4:24; Heb. 12:29; Ps. 79:5), of His wrath (Deut. 9:3; Ps. 18:8; Ps. 89:46; Isa. 5:24), of His Word in power (Jer. 5:14; Jer. 23:29), of Divine truth (Ps. 39:3; Jer. 20:9; Lk. 12:49), of that which guides men (Isa. 50:10-11), of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:3), of Christ in His glory (Rev 1:14), of the power of love to overcome evil (Rom. 12:20), of trial and suffering (Ps. 66:12; Isa 43:2; 1 Peter 1:7; 1 Peter 4:12), of evil (Prov. 6:27; Isa 9:18; Isa. 65:5), of lust or desire (Hos. 7:6; 1 Cor. 7:9), of greed (Prov. 30:16), of the evil tongue (James 3:5-6), of heaven and its purity and glory (Rev. 15:2; Rev 21:22-23), and of Divine testing for divinity (Rev. 20). I am sure I have not exhausted the list of the various ways fire is used in the Bible. If we studied light and heat (attributes of fire), I'm sure we could greatly expand the list.

The point is, Fire or a Volcano is considered divine. Fire is considered the spirit, or the holy Ghost of GOD, the thunderings and lightnings as the voice of GOD, and the Volcano as the body/temple or what have you. And the names that are relevant to this GOD are more specifically El Elyon, El Shaddia, and Yahweh. These are the names more specifically used as direct names of their GOD (as in what their god actually is), and not names in regards to just attributes of...  As in the Mountain they worshiped as GOD was likely a Volcano.

[OldGit]

Clearly this derives from the Beer Volcanoes which are in the Pastafarian heaven (together with the stripper factories).  As ever, our Noodly Lord the FSM was there first and the other minor deities like Jayweh and Oivay are reduced to plagiarism.

[TheJackel]

Clearly this derives from the Beer Volcanoes which are in the Pastafarian heaven (together with the stripper factories).  As ever, our Noodly Lord the FSM was there first and the other minor deities like Jayweh and Oivay are reduced to plagiarism.

Pfft, beer doesn't burn.. It's the Prohibition home distilled hill billy LIQUOR!

[OldGit]

^ If only - but the Good Book says beer.  Incidentally, the Pastafarian Hell is exactly the same - beer volcanoes and stripper factories - but the beer is stale and the strippers are diseased.

To be serious for a moment, I wonder if  our prophet Bobby had in the back of his mind some awareness of this volcano tradition.  I had certainly never heard or thought of it.

[Too Few Lions]

gotta confess I don't buy any of this volcano deity hypothesis. Holy mountains are found all over Eurasia, and they're always the home of the god/gods. Mount Sinai, Olympus, Meru, Fuji and Potala are all good examples. Yahweh was always going to be depicted on a mountain, just like Zeus or Indra. The Holy Mountain is usually a mythical way of depicting the idea of the axis mundi at the centre of the universe. To me, Yahweh on his mountain of fire doesn't seem very far away from Zeus firing off thunderbolts from on top of his mountain.

Sacred fire was also often important in Eurasian mythology / religion, and was also sometimes linked to the idea of an omphalos / axis mundi (like at Delphi where there was an eternal flame). It may be relevant in your quotes from Deuteronomy 4:11 that the fire on the mountain burnt to the middle of the heavens (i.e the axis / celestial pole). Fire was particularly revered by the Persians, and much of the Old Testament was written during the period of Persian rule and exile in Babylon.  In particular, the promotion of Yahweh as the sole god of the Jews happened around this time.

Another big problem with this hypothesis would be that I don't think there are any active volcanoes in the Levant / Sinai area, and I'm not sure there have been any in the past 3000 years (although I'm no vulcanologist!)

[TheJackel]

Another big problem with this hypothesis would be that I don't think there are any active volcanoes in the Levant / Sinai area, and I'm not sure there have been any in the past 3000 years (although I'm no vulcanologist!)

What makes you think they must be in that specific location? I don't remember the bible having a GPS location of MT Sinia. Also there are a ton of volcanic ranges in that region of the world. Including one within 500 miles to which was a super volcano that erupted around 1500 B.C taking a good part of the Island with it. Plus this would take some serious assumption that these people were magically clueless as to the existence of volcanoes, or any supposed stories of.

What's relevant is what is written in the bible.. And it's clearly described as such. So you need to address that because it doesn't even matter if it's fictional.

[TheJackel]

A good candidate for such a volcano story:

The Minoan eruption of Thera, also referred to as the Thera eruption or Santorini eruption, was a major catastrophic volcanic eruption with a Volcanic Explosivity Index (VEI) of 6 or 7 and a Dense-rock equivalent (DRE) of 60 cubic kilometres (14 cu mi),[1] which is estimated to have occurred in the mid second millennium BCE.[2] The eruption was one of the largest volcanic events on Earth in recorded history.[3][4][5] The eruption devastated the island of Thera (also called Santorini), including the Minoan settlement at Akrotiri, as well as communities and agricultural areas on nearby islands and on the coast of Crete.

The eruption seems to have inspired certain Greek myths[6] and may have caused turmoil in Egypt.[7][8] Additionally, it has been speculated that the Minoan eruption and the destruction of the city at Akrotiri provided the basis for or otherwise inspired Plato's story of Atlantis.[9][10]

[Gawen]

gotta confess I don't buy any of this volcano deity hypothesis. Holy mountains are found all over Eurasia, and they're always the home of the god/gods. Mount Sinai, Olympus, Meru, Fuji and Potala are all good examples. Yahweh was always going to be depicted on a mountain, just like Zeus or Indra. The Holy Mountain is usually a mythical way of depicting the idea of the axis mundi at the centre of the universe. To me, Yahweh on his mountain of fire doesn't seem very far away from Zeus firing off thunderbolts from on top of his mountain...Another big problem with this hypothesis would be that I don't think there are any active volcanoes in the Levant / Sinai area, and I'm not sure there have been any in the past 3000 years (although I'm no vulcanologist!

Frankly, the volcano god hypothesis is more plausible due to the fact that in those times other peoples worshiped mountain/volcano gods. It is my understanding that the region in those times did have active volcanos. But at the moment, I cannot find my sources.